Rory Donnelly

[Royal rover]

anyone know anything about this kid, he plays for cliftonville seems he'll be in england by Jan either Swansea, Everton or Liverpool - scored a cracker against linfield

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16237980.stm

[tricky_colour]

He has played for Northern Ireland under-21 so.........not a great sign, that does not tie him in internationally
but that's as much as I know, maybe he could switch to us as some point but I don't like to raise my hopes
too high without more evidence.

The is no flag by his name here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliftonville_F.C.

Which means he might be 'up for grabs', but as he has played for the North I am not optimistic.

[Not Brazil]

He has played for Northern Ireland under-21.

He hasn't - yet.

[Sullivinho]

This guy arrives in the limelight just as Robbie nears a glorious swansong??


I don't believe in coincidence.

[tricky_colour]

He hasn't - yet.

Well he is described and a NI u21 international here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/mobile/football/16179103.stm?SThisFB

He may not have actually played yet though.

Also he has the NI flag here.

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2012/clubs/player=250030614/index.html

Sounds to me he is a Rory of the McIlroy type.

[third policeman]

Beginning to feel sorry for footballers from "Nationalist" backgrounds in NI. Play for us and they become hate figures on OWC. Stick with / elect to play for NI and get lambasted here for implicit treachery. Also have considerable sympathy for Armstrong. He is without question an Irish footballing legend for his 82 World Cup heroics. The whole of Ireland got behind NI in that tournament. I think we should respect the right and decision of any NI born player to play for NI or in Armstrog's case work for the IFA to spot and develop talent. Whatever decision Donnelly makes, I'd wish him all the best (and hope he signs for Liverpool)

[Scooby Doo]

Beginning to feel sorry for footballers from "Nationalist" backgrounds in NI. Play for us and they become hate figures on OWC. Stick with / elect to play for NI and get lambasted here for implicit treachery. Also have considerable sympathy for Armstrong. He is without question an Irish footballing legend for his 82 World Cup heroics. The whole of Ireland got behind NI in that tournament. I think we should respect the right and decision of any NI born player to play for NI or in Armstrog's case work for the IFA to spot and develop talent. Whatever decision Donnelly makes, I'd wish him all the best (and hope he signs for Liverpool)

Name one NI player that has been 'lambasted', as you say, on here for sticking with the IFA. Wasn't much lambasting going on as far as I can see in the cases of Paddy McCourt, Niall McGinn, Johnny Gorman etc etc. Don't think there was even much of a fuss when Alex Bruce decided to switch.

Anyway, I doubt that many of the lads who decide to play for Ireland are lying awake at night over what a few bitter keyboard warriors on OurWeeMindset might say about them.

Also, Gerry Armstrong is a colossal douche - period.

[Stuttgart88]

There's no excuse for Armstrong's ignorance of the eligibility rules, spouting on about the GFA etc. If it's not ignorance, it's worse.

SSN saying he could well be on his way to Swansea. Rodgers will be advising him to stay with NI - if it's even an issue for the lad. Good luck to him.

[Mr_Parker]

Leave our Rory alone. If he's lucky enough to be good enough for international duty, he will decide for himself without the need for any sweet talking from reps of any association.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih09AzzHlrc

[Sullivinho]

Name one NI player that has been 'lambasted', as you say, on here for sticking with the IFA. Wasn't much lambasting going on as far as I can see in the cases of Paddy McCourt, Niall McGinn, Johnny Gorman etc etc. Don't think there was even much of a fuss when Alex Bruce decided to switch.

Anyway, I doubt that many of the lads who decide to play for Ireland are lying awake at night over what a few bitter keyboard warriors on OurWeeMindset might say about them.

Also, Gerry Armstrong is a colossal douche - period.

We've had eligible players (albeit in the main, those of a low profile) throw their lots in with England, Australia and the US too if I'm not mistaken and you'd be hard pressed to find a negative response around here, certainly in comparison to some other boards. One of the things I like about the place actually.

As for Armstrong, I found him quite likeable and enjoyed his various commentary gigs but can't hear his name now without thinking of the cringey Uncle Tomisms he's been indulging in of late.

[RiffRaff]

Beginning to feel sorry for footballers from "Nationalist" backgrounds in NI. Play for us and they become hate figures on OWC. Stick with / elect to play for NI and get lambasted here for implicit treachery. Also have considerable sympathy for Armstrong. He is without question an Irish footballing legend for his 82 World Cup heroics. The whole of Ireland got behind NI in that tournament. I think we should respect the right and decision of any NI born player to play for NI or in Armstrog's case work for the IFA to spot and develop talent. Whatever decision Donnelly makes, I'd wish him all the best (and hope he signs for Liverpool) Agree with all this (apart from the Liverpool bit)

[ChrisRed]

SSN saying he could well be on his way to Swansea. Rodgers will be advising him to stay with NI - if it's even an issue for the lad. Good luck to him.

Surely Rodgers would do the opposite? His son Anton is in our under 17 squad and played for the under 15 & 16, he could have chosen the north or England instead. I'm sure his dad would have advised him in that seeing as he declared so young and was already playing for a big club in Chelsea.

Also didn't Rodgers play for us at school boy level?

[Olé Olé]

Surely Rodgers would do the opposite? His son Anton is in our under 17 squad and played for the under 15 & 16, he could have chosen the north or England instead. I'm sure his dad would have advised him in that seeing as he declared so young and was already playing for a big club in Chelsea.

Also didn't Rodgers play for us at school boy level?

Can't find the article but he recently seemed to change stance, explaining that Anton has been speaking to Northern Irish officials (Armstrong) and that Northern Irish boys should be playing for Northern Ireland etc He's also related to Nigel Worthington so I'm not sure will he have altered his stance once more.

[bennocelt]

As for Armstrong, I found him quite likeable and enjoyed his various commentary gigs but can't hear his name now without thinking of the cringey Uncle Tomisms he's been indulging in of late.

Castle Catholic?

[DannyInvincible]

but as he has played for the North I am not optimistic.

Even if he had played for NI below senior competitive level, I don't see why it would make any substantial difference as to whether or not he may decide to declare for us. Shane Duffy and James McClean both played for the IFA on numerous occasions but are now committed to paving out an international career with us.


Stick with / elect to play for NI and get lambasted here for implicit treachery.

Not in the slightest. I don't think anyone on this forum seeks to deny the individual choice of those who possess dual/multiple citizenship, whatever the specific circumstances are, be they relating to the FAI and the IFA or the FAI and any other association. Where have you encountered posters lambasting those of a nationalist background playing for the IFA? If an individual makes a choice to declare for an association, as is his right under FIFA's regulations, that's nobody else's business as far as making that personal decision is concerned. As highlighted, we've had players defect, just like any other association, but nobody's crying about it. We've come to terms with the seemingly difficult notion of personal autonomy.

People ridiculing Gerry Armstrong is a separate thing entirely and has more to do with his recent fawning in public and the fact he clearly doesn't have a clue about what he's talking about when it comes to the rules governing player eligibility.


I think we should respect the right and decision of any NI born player to play for NI or in Armstrog's case work for the IFA to spot and develop talent.

Who isn't respecting that right/decision? Armstrong can wax lyrical all he likes about "Roman Catholics" of "Ulster". I'll continue to be amused by its futility and cringe-worthiness, but I do acknowledge his right to do it. As he would no doubt say himself, I can only wish him "good luck". ;)


Can't find the article but he recently seemed to change stance, explaining that Anton has been speaking to Northern Irish officials (Armstrong) and that Northern Irish boys should be playing for Northern Ireland etc He's also related to Nigel Worthington so I'm not sure will he have altered his stance once more.

Think this is the one: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/15016954.stm


The Carnlough man commented that he is very happy in his current role of club management at Swansea but would be keen to manage Northern Ireland in the future.

"One of my ambitions as a manager is to manage my country and I would be proud to do that one day."

As it stands, Rodgers' son Anton has declared for the Republic of Ireland, but his father says "that is not something that can't be rectified".

"I spoke with Gerry Armstrong recently as I'm a big advocate of Northern Ireland.

"I want to see Northern Ireland boys play for Northern Ireland and the reason my son is playing for the Republic is simple - they asked him while he was never asked to play for Northern Ireland.

"I've been speaking to Gerry and I think he's planning to go to Brighton to speak to him.

"Northern Ireland is a small country but we have a lot of talented players - we just have to look at how we can keep things moving forward."

[BonnieShels]

Delighted. Can't want for the tug-of-war with OWC to begin.

[punkrocket]

Rodgers will be advising him to stay with NI - if it's even an issue for the lad. Good luck to him.

I suspect that you are unfamiliar with Carnlough and it's residents.

[Predator]

The sound of a thousand FAI poachers suiting up in their "FAI Jackets" will meet the news of this completed transfer.

[Not Brazil]

I suspect that you are unfamiliar with Carnlough and it's residents.

I suspect you are unfamiliar with the comments attributable to Rodgers, as highlighted in post #15?

[theworm2345]

The is no flag by his name here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliftonville_F.C.
Well now he is listed twice, once with an N.I. flag and one with a Republic flag.

[punkrocket]

I suspect you are unfamiliar with the comments attributable to Rodgers, as highlighted in post #15?

Not true, I am familiar with the contents of the aforementioned missive, kinda backs up everything I know about Carnlough and it's residents.

[third policeman]

Ok "lambast" might be a bit of an overstatement, but there is more than a hint from posters on this thread and others that footballers with a nationalist background should declare for Ireland. In the case of McCourt and McGinn it has been speculated that their declaration was pragmatic based on the unlikelyhood of them making it into the ROI team. References to Armstrong's "Uncle Tom" or "Castle Catholic" behaviour also carry a definite suggestion of disloyalty. If Billy Hamilton or Norman Whiteside had made similar comments they would have been seen as natural or predicatable, but because Armstrong is a Catholic who played GAA his pro IFA position makes him a "douche"

[BonnieShels]

Not exactly. It's Gerry's lack of understanding of eligibility and the reasons behind anyone's choice to play for the FAI's or the IFA's representative teams that makes him a douche/turd sandwich.

[Stuttgart88]

Not exactly. It's Gerry's lack of understanding of eligibility and the reasons behind anyone's choice to play for the FAI's or the IFA's representative teams that makes him a douche/turd sandwich....or his deliberate misrepresentation of the facts. If it's not deliberate then his lack of awareness is lazy, ignorant and frankly hard to believe given the role he has taken on. It takes about 30 minutes to read and understand the CAS judgment.

[Newryrep]

Ok "lambast" might be a bit of an overstatement, but there is more than a hint from posters on this thread and others that footballers with a nationalist background should declare for Ireland. In the case of McCourt and McGinn it has been speculated that their declaration was pragmatic based on the unlikelyhood of them making it into the ROI team. References to Armstrong's "Uncle Tom" or "Castle Catholic" behaviour also carry a definite suggestion of disloyalty. If Billy Hamilton or Norman Whiteside had made similar comments they would have been seen as natural or predicatable, but because Armstrong is a Catholic who played GAA his pro IFA position makes him a "douche"

nationalist 'background' nor religious references dont really meant anything

It would be expected that nationalists would declare for Ireland and non nationalists wouldnt.- That is all really, ........its not difficult to comprehend though plenty seem to have trouble

[BonnieShels]

...or his deliberate misrepresentation of the facts. If it's not deliberate then his lack of awareness is lazy, ignorant and frankly hard to believe given the role he has taken on. It takes about 30 minutes to read and understand the CAS judgment.

You're giving Gerry and the IFA way to much credit.

[Charlie Darwin]

...or his deliberate misrepresentation of the facts. If it's not deliberate then his lack of awareness is lazy, ignorant and frankly hard to believe given the role he has taken on. It takes about 30 minutes to read and understand the CAS judgment.
As if Elite Player Nentors have 30 minutes to spare.

[theworm2345]

Beginning to feel sorry for footballers from "Nationalist" backgrounds in NI. Play for us and they become hate figures on OWC. Stick with / elect to play for NI and get lambasted here for implicit treachery. Also have considerable sympathy for Armstrong. He is without question an Irish footballing legend for his 82 World Cup heroics. The whole of Ireland got behind NI in that tournament. I think we should respect the right and decision of any NI born player to play for NI or in Armstrog's case work for the IFA to spot and develop talent. Whatever decision Donnelly makes, I'd wish him all the best (and hope he signs for Liverpool)
So is Don Givens

Also, Gerry Armstrong is a colossal douche - period.
So is Don Givens

[BonnieShels]

Worm, rest assured if I could thank that twice I would.

[punkrocket]

Anyway regardless of who he ends up playing for internationally I hope that Cliftonville have plenty of after sales stuff in the contract to extract a bit of mileage from the sale as £100,000, the figure swansea are said to have offered, is pretty risible for such a a prospect. All right he's only a prospect, if a proven goalscorer in the IL, but with 3 premiership sides in the hunt dont tell me that they dont think he's not worth a bigger punt than that.

[Predator]

Worm, rest assured if I could thank that twice I would.Thank. Remove thanks. Thank. Job done. :)

[ifk101]

Ok "lambast" might be a bit of an overstatement,

Have the decency to admit you were way off the mark.


but there is more than a hint from posters on this thread and others that footballers with a nationalist background should declare for Ireland.

Who? Give examples.


In the case of McCourt and McGinn it has been speculated that their declaration was pragmatic based on the unlikelyhood of them making it into the ROI team.

McCourt got a senior cap when he was 18 while playing with a division 3 side. McGinn has stated who he supports.


References to Armstrong's "Uncle Tom" or "Castle Catholic" behaviour also carry a definite suggestion of disloyalty. If Billy Hamilton or Norman Whiteside had made similar comments they would have been seen as natural or predicatable, but because Armstrong is a Catholic who played GAA his pro IFA position makes him a "douche"

More drivel.

[Closed Account]

Thank. Remove thanks. Thank. Job done. :)
I thought it was odd that he didn't even Thank him once! Despite his reverence..... :)

[seanfhear]

Rory:

If you want to, come and play for us. We will give you a hundred thousand welcomes.

All are welcome.

[Not Brazil]

Not true, I am familiar with the contents of the aforementioned missive, kinda backs up everything I know about Carnlough and it's residents.

What do you know about Carnlough and it's residents, and how do Rodgers comments back up what you know?

[punkrocket]

As this is a thread about Rory Donnelly I don't want to go into too much detail about the home town of a prospective manager of the lad's but suffice to say that Carnlough is a strongly nationalist town at the southern end of the Glens of Antrim and my suspicion would be that anyone hailing from there would be unlikely to advise a player to play for NI a suspicion supported by his son's actions. Yes he does say all that stuff about supporting NI which we have to take at face value but I wonder just what advise his son was given by him, I'm sure he was asked for his thoughts. I don't think there is conclusive evidence either way, but I still have my suspicions. Bit of a christmas whodunnit, must get the cluedo out over the holidays. Who loves ya baby?
What do you think of the kind of money being offered for Donnelly? I think it's a bit of an insult and hope that Cliftonville hold out for a decent price and follow ups.
Anyway I see that there has been a deadline for resolution of the whole saga by Cliftonville and that Arsenal are now interested as well. Can't see it being done and dusted that quick myself.

[Not Brazil]

suffice to say that Carnlough is a strongly nationalist town at the southern end of the Glens of Antrim and my suspicion would be that anyone hailing from there would be unlikely to advise a player to play for NI .

Brendan Rodgers (born and raised in Carnlough - "a strongly nationalist town").

"I want to see Northern Ireland boys play for Northern Ireland"

[punkrocket]

He must be raging with his wee boy then. I suppose being born in England though he advised him to hold out for an England cap.

[Not Brazil]

He must be raging with his wee boy then.

Did you really bother to read Rodgers comments?

"the reason my son is playing for the Republic is simple - they asked him while he was never asked to play for Northern Ireland"

Rodgers Jnr will shortly have the opportunity to play for Northern Ireland.

[punkrocket]

Many people have the opportunity to play for NI and many decline to do so.

[third policeman]

As this is a thread about Rory Donnelly I don't want to go into too much detail about the home town of a prospective manager of the lad's but suffice to say that Carnlough is a strongly nationalist town at the southern end of the Glens of Antrim and my suspicion would be that anyone hailing from there would be unlikely to advise a player to play for NI a suspicion supported by his son's actions. Yes he does say all that stuff about supporting NI which we have to take at face value but I wonder just what advise his son was given by him, I'm sure he was asked for his thoughts. I don't think there is conclusive evidence either way, but I still have my suspicions. Bit of a christmas whodunnit, must get the cluedo out over the holidays. Who loves ya baby?
What do you think of the kind of money being offered for Donnelly? I think it's a bit of an insult and hope that Cliftonville hold out for a decent price and follow ups.
Anyway I see that there has been a deadline for resolution of the whole saga by Cliftonville and that Arsenal are now interested as well. Can't see it being done and dusted that quick myself.



OK IFK. I know you may regard this as ex post facto validation of my point, but I would submit that the above post clearly does suggest that Northern "nationalists" (not a term that I introduced to these discussions) should / would naturally choose to opt to play for Ireland rather than NI. More fundamentally it is implicit in the very existence of this thread that someone playing for Cliftonville with the name of Donnelly would be more likely to play for us than an upcoming prospect at Linfield or Crusaders from a unionist background.

My point is that we are beginning to expect Northern "nationalists" to follow the Gibson, Duffy, Wilson trail and this expectation might be unreasonable and ultimately unheplful for community relationships in NI. Manny players with "nationalist" backgrounds and cultural outlooks have played and will play for NI.The spectre of Ireland's two football teams becoming the international equivalent of Celtic and Rangers is what troubles me, and it's the basis of my past gripes with the
likes of Ealing Green and Gather Round who are seemingly blind to the continuing sectarian excesses of many diehard NI supporters.

My preferance would be for a single team especially as the IFA / FAI schism was not exclusively about partition and both teams have at different times picked players from both sides of the border. But in the mean time (and I know its heresy to some on this site) maybe we shouldn't pick NI born players, but should take a look at the bigger picture.

[punkrocket]

I knew there was a reason why I don't post over on that other thread.

[Predator]

Rodgers has also recently said he doesn't like the Irish national team (s) question because of the political baggage that is inherently attached.
I'd say he doesn't care much who his son plays for as long as he's playing.

[Predator]

...this expectation might be unreasonable and ultimately unheplful for community relationships in NI...Can you elaborate on this?


But in the mean time (and I know its heresy to some on this site) maybe we shouldn't pick NI born players, but should take a look at the bigger picture.Hold on, what is this so-called "bigger picture"?

[Newryrep]

My preferance would be for a single team especially as the IFA / FAI schism was not exclusively about partition and both teams have at different times picked players from both sides of the border. But in the mean time (and I know its heresy to some on this site) maybe we shouldn't pick NI born players, but should take a look at the bigger picture.

Eh ? its about identity .............if you believe your identity is Northern Irish then play for northern ireland, if you dont then play for us it cant be any more simplier

Not interested in one side at the moment, and to be fair religion is irellevent to both teams

[tetsujin1979]

Did you really bother to read Rodgers comments?

"the reason my son is playing for the Republic is simple - they asked him while he was never asked to play for Northern Ireland"

Rodgers Jnr will shortly have the opportunity to play for Northern Ireland.

When he was interviewed recently on Newstalk, Brendan mentioned that Anton was also eligible for Scotland, but he didn't think Anton would change his allegiance

[Not Brazil]

Many people have the opportunity to play for NI and many decline to do so.

So what?

No different to those who have the opportunity to play for the South, but decline to do so.

I expect to see Rodgers Jnr in a Northern Ireland shirt in the not too distant future.

[Not Brazil]

When he was interviewed recently on Newstalk, Brendan mentioned that Anton was also eligible for Scotland, but he didn't think Anton would change his allegiance

In the words of Brendan, his son's current allegiance to the South "is not something that can't be rectified".

[punkrocket]

That's if he doesn't decline to do so.

[third policeman]

Can you elaborate on this?

Hold on, what is this so-called "bigger picture"?

You live in Derry, you shouldn't really need me to explain this one to you.