Group C Euro 2012 General Discussion

[French Toasht]

Spain, Italy and Croatia.

It's going to be a toughie.

[Real ale Madrid]

3 Fantastic games! Draw-Draw-win and we're through to meet England in the quarters!

[French Toasht]

I reckon the must win game is Croatia, get a win in the first match and we are set up.

[Closed Account 2]

Gdansk is a hard place to get to, the flights are 400 or more return and its 8 hours from Berlin by train.

[DannyInvincible]

Tough group, but maintaining positivity.

We've a better head-to-head against Italy under Trap. I don't fear them. He'll have the upper-hand psychologically over his counterpart. I'll take Croatia, though would have preferred Greece. The prospect of watching Spain attempt to take on Trap's system in vain is a mouthwatering one. I don't believe they've ever met a certain Mr. Dunne... ;)

[TrapAPony]

We are capable of getting results off of Italy and Croatia. The group looks difficult on paper but it's definitely not impossible to get out of.

[BonnieShels]

This is a very good group for us.

[Closed Account 2]

Of all the groups that the bottom seeds got I'd only swap places with the Czechs, I would really fancy that Poland/Greece/Russia group. But failing that we're in a much nicer group than Denmark (Dutch/Germany/Portugal) and probably very similar to the French group (Ukraine/England/Sweden). I know people will say that Croatia are better than Sweden (I would say they are level) and that Spain are better than Ukraine, but I think the Ukrainians are going to be very hard to beat at home. The distances in that group (Kiev, Donetsk, Kiev) would also be a factor.

Another plus is hopefully there will be more tickets on the open market as Polish fans will be gunning for group A (where their team is) and I dont see the Spanish or Italians travelling in say the same number as the English, Dutch or Germans (the last are a 3 hour drive away), all three countries are not really driving distance to Poland so maybe less of their fans will go and we might see a few more tickets.

[Murfinator]

Worst 1st seeds we could have gotten and the best team in the world to boot, worst 3rd seats we could have gotten against a technical side (who we're usually torn apart by) who recently beat us comfortably. Good 2nd seed draw but still, it's Italy.

Don't see any reason for optimism here. I'm expecting 1 point and bottom place. Spain will take 9, we'll draw to Italy and whether we get 2nd or 4th will be down to the Croatia game which I think we'll lose. Shame we didn't get Group A or D, much easier groups. I think Croatia will take 2nd.

Spain 9
Croatia 4
Italy 2
Ireland 1

At a rough guess.

[theworm2345]

Am looking forward to vengeance on the Spaniards for 2002.

[punkrocket]

I'm delighted with this draw. At least 2 winnable games and the other, as England showed by adopting our tactics, certainly drawable if not winnable. All right, maybe a bit rose coloured, but we should hvae no fear. At the very least there should be a few good matches to watch.
Poland is where I wanted to be, didn't want to drive to the Ukraine, and the Engerland lot will be far away, at first anyway. We should have more supporters over as a result of it being easier to get to and that will give us a boost.
I won't be able to sleep tonight now.

[DannyInvincible]

worst 3rd seats we could have gotten against a technical side (who we're usually torn apart by) who recently beat us comfortably.

What game are you referring to? We drew 0-0 against Croatia last August.

[BonnieShels]

Worst 1st seeds we could have gotten and the best team in the world to boot, worst 3rd seats we could have gotten against a technical side (who we're usually torn apart by) who recently beat us comfortably. Good 2nd seed draw but still, it's Italy.

Don't see any reason for optimism here. I'm expecting 1 point and bottom place. Spain will take 9, we'll draw to Italy and whether we get 2nd or 4th will be down to the Croatia game which I think we'll lose. Shame we didn't get Group A or D, much easier groups. I think Croatia will take 2nd.

Spain 9
Croatia 4
Italy 2
Ireland 1

At a rough guess.

On the basis that we play Croatia first I reckon the stitch up with Italy will be the crucial result.

[mypost]

This is a very good group for us.

Tough Group. The kind of group, where you would love to have a 24-team, 3-qualify for the knockout rounds available, whilst remaining very competitive.

[tricky_colour]

What is the match order?
I understand it is Croatia first (been known to be wrong ;) ) would much prefer them last.
First games tend to get drawn and we really need a win there.

[Lionel Ritchie]

What is the match order?
. Croatia (10th), Spain (14th), Italy (18th -the 18th anniversary of 1-0 at the Giants Stadium btw)

[BonnieShels]

Tough Group. The kind of group, where you would love to have a 24-team, 3-qualify for the knockout rounds available, whilst remaining very competitive.

It's tough but not impossible. I'm happy.

[shakermaker1982]

Tough but I could see us getting 3 draws!

I cannot wait to see the look on Xavi and Iniesta's face when we unleash hoofball. The anti Tika Taka! We beat Italy last time we played em and have just drawn with Croatia. England and the Swiss showed how your able to nick a victory against the Spanish........just need the luck we had out in Moscow to sneak a point.

[ArdeeBhoy]

This is a very good group for us.

You are joking?

4 points maximum.

We'll come third.

Still after a week in Polska, we'll probably be glad to get out of it.
Though at least we avoided the potential hoolies in Krakow & Warsaw.

[tommy_c12000]

Ireland 3/1 to qualify. I would have pushed it out to 4/1 myself. 66/1 to win it. Easy money! You'd be crazy not to put a generous sum down

http://www.paddypower.com/football/international-football/euro-2012?ev_oc_grp_ids=273279

[ArdeeBhoy]

Are they paying out on losing bets then?
;)

[Noelys Guitar]

Very happy with the group we are in. This is what football is all about. Huge worldwide audiences for all three games. Its made for the likes of McGeady to show what he is capable of against the very, very best teams in the world. I still believe we need three more good players to give it a real go. Hopefully McCarthy, Coleman, Mayler and the Norwich three and a few others show enough in the next few months forcing Trap to ahve to make some very tough selection decisions come next June. Can't wait now. Roll on the Euro's

[Handy]

I think if we're going to play at all, we may as well line up against the best and give them a battle. I'm seriously excited about the group. Zero expectations, Every point is a victory.

We can beat Spain 0-0 :)

[geysir]

You are joking?

4 points maximum.

We'll come third.

Still after a week in Polska, we'll probably be glad to get out of it.
Though at least we avoided the potential hoolies in Krakow & Warsaw.
You never know, but maybe you'll have one day where you can relax and enjoy yourself, free from the fear that that an out of control truck will run you over :)

Strange enough, but I was in the off license this afternoon and picked up a few Polish beers and porters, on the off chance.
Not for the fainthearted, but Brok Porter 9% is a walk on the wild side. Guaranteed to ease your mind away from misery of thoughts of inevitable failure, for few hours.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except it's not me I'm worried about....
;)

[legendz]

Tough draw. We'll have to match '88 and '94 by kicking off with a win. I think the Spaniards will win their opening game but could draw with us. Anything can happen and it usually does.

[gastric]

I have been critical of Trap's style of play over the years - watching paint dry would at times be more entertaining, but paradoxically on seeing our group I thought this is exactly the style of play that could get us out of this group. It will tight in all games and limiting errors, defending deep and counterattacking quickly will help us in what will be hopefully low scoring games. We have enough experience of Italy to not fear them, Croatia - who knows which team will turn up while making no mistakes will be crucial against Spain. Looking forward to seeing us play at the very highest level of competition as you would never encounter such a tough group in the World Cup.

[pineapple stu]

Happy enough with that I suppose. Spain have shown in the past that they find teams like us tough to break down, and we'll be quite happy to settle for a 0-0 draw. Trap will be well up for the game against Italy, and we've drawn with Croatia this year already. It's get-out-able (which isn't to say we'll qualify obviously).

Starting to feel real now though.

[weldoninhio]

I predict 3 embarrassing defeats and 2 more years of horrific football under Crappatoni!!!!!

[pineapple stu]

How are you not on my ignore list?!

[MeathDrog]

Anything can happen and it usually does.
Well said.

[Closed Account]

I can't wait for the prompter to come up
"Spain 94% - 5% Ireland(the air 1%)"

[elroy]

It was never going to be an easy draw given the quality of the teams in the tournament. Its probably the best draw location wise and its a glamour draw all round. The first game is crucial, lose that and its likely we will be facing into the Italy with only pride to play for. A draw in the first game will keep us alive for all three games. Im delighted we got Italy, I think we can at least get a draw against them. Croatia, we should at least be aiming for a draw whereas Spain, anything but a defeat will be good there. Bring it on!!! Great to be involved in a big draw again.

[BonnieShels]

You are joking?

4 points maximum.

We'll come third.

Still after a week in Polska, we'll probably be glad to get out of it.
Though at least we avoided the potential hoolies in Krakow & Warsaw.

To be honest bar getting Poland as a top seed it really couldn't have been better.

It was always a toss-up between England/Italy and Croatia/Greece. We've done good.

The only team to really fear and be petrified of in the whole tournament is Germany. Like proper "serial killer" afraid.

Spain or the Dutch could turn up on the day and wipe the floor with us. Us or Croatia to qualify with Spain out of that group. You heard it here first.

[TrapAPony]

I can't wait for the prompter to come up
"Spain 94% - 5% Ireland(the air 1%)"

Ya, with Ireland winning 1-0 thanks to a Paul Green strike

[theworm2345]

The only team to really fear and be petrified of in the whole tournament is Germany. Like proper "Nazis" afraid.
Fixed :o

[mypost]

I have been critical of Trap's style of play over the years - watching paint dry would at times be more entertaining, but paradoxically on seeing our group I thought this is exactly the style of play that could get us out of this group. It will tight in all games and limiting errors, defending deep and counterattacking quickly will help us in what will be hopefully low scoring games. We have enough experience of Italy to not fear them, Croatia - who knows which team will turn up while making no mistakes will be crucial against Spain. Looking forward to seeing us play at the very highest level of competition as you would never encounter such a tough group in the World Cup.

Who remembers that famous England-Holland-Ireland lots deciding group, or the Italy-Ireland-Mexico-Norway goals scored group? I do.

This isn't a group that encourages "entertainment" from our point of view. It's about holding our own against Barcelona Spain, and a slugfest against the Azzurri. Safety first is the only option.

People describing Italy as "old" would do well to look at the age of some of our key players. Several of them could be packing it up afterwards. Italy are Italy, and they will always be strong, whereas Croatia can tear you apart or collapse in a heap, depending on what day it is.

Didn't get the Ukraine group I was looking for, and we're the only side in the group that has to travel around for every game. Will we qualify? It'll be another nail-biter I reckon.

[SkStu]

To be honest bar getting Poland as a top seed it really couldn't have been better.

It was always a toss-up between England/Italy and Croatia/Greece. We've done good.

The only team to really fear and be petrified of in the whole tournament is Germany. Like proper "serial killer" afraid.

Spain or the Dutch could turn up on the day and wipe the floor with us. Us or Croatia to qualify with Spain out of that group. You heard it here first.

well said. my thoughts exactly.

[tricky_colour]

The way I look at it is if we have to beat Spain twice to win the trophy then so be it.
It will be no more difficult second time!!

[Closed Account 2]

The Swiss in 2010 are about the level we are now (maybe a little below us) a functional team but one that was mainly well organised in defence, for our Trap they had Otto Hitzfeld. They beat the Spanish out in Durban, to be honest there was no team the Spanish utterly annhilated in the World Cup, people forget they limped past Paraguay 1-0 (Cardozo missed a pen), edged past Chile 2-1 I would say all these teams (Swiss, Chile, Paraguay) are of our level but we are perhaps a bit more organised than Chile or Switzerland at the back.

If you collapse against the Spanish you'll get punished, if the players heads go down after being say 1 or 2 down after 30 mins then there could be big problems, but I'm not convinced we'll afford them that many chances. The Spanish are very good at home but away from home they're not the invincible machine the likes of Sid Löwe and Phil Ball paint them to be, I'm sure people know about their friendly results, even if you assume friendlies dont count their qualification was not as emphatic as say the Germans. They've had to rely on late goals to beat the Scots and Lithuanians. With 10 mins to go at Hampden the Scots were holding Spain to a 2-2, with 20 mins to go the Lithuanians were 1-1 with Spain in Kaunas, until an astounding own goal from Kijanskas gifted them the initiative. We are significantly better than the Scots and the Lithuanians - the latter took only TWO points from four games vs Scotland and Litchenstein. We conceeded 7 in 10 games versus their 6 in 8, and we probably had a stronger group (with Russia and Slovakia being stronger as a pair than Czechs and Scotland, and Armenia being harder than Lithuania). I'd rather have the Spanish in as 1st seeds than the Dutch, and not having the Germans who in my opinion are significantly stronger than the Spanish, is a big blessing.

[Scooby Doo]

Sorry lads, but I think it has all just finally hit home tonight after the draw! YEEEOOOO! :sinister:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifO7AwBtNjE

[mypost]

If you collapse against the Spanish you'll get punished, if the players heads go down after being say 1 or 2 down after 30 mins then there could be big problems, but I'm not convinced we'll afford them that many chances. The Spanish are very good at home but away from home they're not the invincible machine the likes of Sid Löwe and Phil Ball paint them to be, I'm sure people know about their friendly results, even if you assume friendlies dont count their qualification was not as emphatic as say the Germans. They've had to rely on late goals to beat the Scots and Lithuanians. With 10 mins to go at Hampden the Scots were holding Spain to a 2-2, with 20 mins to go the Lithuanians were 1-1 with Spain in Kaunas, until an astounding own goal from Kijanskas gifted them the initiative. We are significantly better than the Scots and the Lithuanians - the latter took only TWO points from four games vs Scotland and Litchenstein. We conceeded 7 in 10 games versus their 6 in 8, and we probably had a stronger group (with Russia and Slovakia being stronger as a pair than Czechs and Scotland, and Armenia being harder than Lithuania). I'd rather have the Spanish in as 1st seeds than the Dutch, and not having the Germans who in my opinion are significantly stronger than the Spanish, is a big blessing.

Look lads, I know we like to put spin on things, but lets be realistic for a minute here.

Spain are European and World Champions. A Spanish side is currently European club Champions. They sweep the boards at club and international level, nobody wants to face them, and even with 3 good teams in this group, they will walk this, probably by winning all 3 games, unless they have a France '02 meltdown, which I think is highly unlikely.

[theworm2345]

I am generally known to be a pessimistic, cynical **** but you lot make me look like an eternal optimist. The fact that some are throwing in the towel (at least for the Spain match) six months before the tournament disgusts me. Spain are not invincible, they are not unbeatable, they are a good team but every dog has its day. My brother always used to tell me, "its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog." If we really want it more and the players are willing to lay it all on the line, we can get a result against them (as we saw in Russia where we were played off the pitch), and I'm not only talking about a draw. Will they? I don't know. At the end of the days its just 11 men chasing around a bag of air against another 11 men chasing that same bag of air.

[Spudulika]

Italy are beatable, Croatia are beatable, Spain are not unbeatable. Bilic is in dispute with the HNS over his contract and salary (despite getting a 5-10% cut of each player capped under his tenure transfer fee out of Croatia) and the Croats are expecting the team to come 2nd in the group. Italy are a shadow of their former selves and Ireland can do a number on them, plus the manager wants to prove something against his own country. Spain are a very good side but will have to work very hard to break Ireland down. Great draw and means a real boost for the country.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Love the optimism but no matter how the other 3 teams are, we're not very good, sadly!

Especially when it comes to, er, beating teams.
Which is rather essential at this level.

[highlight100]

100/1 with ladbroke's at the moment.
Fiver each way for a bit of fun i think..

[legendz]

With the draw over, England will probably come to Dublin early in 2012? Portugal and Czech Republic could be ideal friendly games in preparation to play Croatia and Spain?

In groups where best third placed teams qualified from groups, three draws would do like '90. Three draws will be well earned in a group like we have for next June but not enough.

We're going to be totally written off against the Spanish but it doesn't mean the game will go according to script. The French were expected to wrap up the play-off after winning in Croke Park but need a thiefs helping had to steal the win. Ireland had to win that game in the 90 minutes to take it to at least extra-time as they did.

Looking at the games and results needed, it would seem we can't afford to lose to the Croat's. Even if we did lose, while it would be hugely difficult from there, shocks happen. The Spanish could come into the game off a win over the Italian expecting to wrap up the group with an easy win. Irish teams have fight and could produce the result to shake up the tournament.

I've wanted us to qualify to play top teams. We've got that. Let's enjoy it!

[shakermaker1982]

We haven't even played a game yet and people are giving up. It's tough but not impossible. I'd rather play Spain than Holland and Germany. If you watched England-Spain you'll see why nicking a point or even fluking a win it's beyond the realms of possibility for a team that plays like we do under the Trap. This Spanish can be beaten in competitive football as well...... the Swiss frustrated the life out of em back in 2010. Let's go there, rise to the occasion and surprise a few people.

Greece 2004 should be our blueprint for success.

[youngirish]

We won't disgrace ourselves but I'd be very surprised if we progressed from the group. Realistically can anyone see Spain falling at the first hurdle? That would be a massive shock. So this effectively means ourselves Croatia and Italy are fighting for one of the qualification spots and both teams I think would fancy their chances against us. A couple of draws then a trip home, or a draw and a win but pipped to the post at the last minute by one of the other teams. These are the most likely outcomes. But we are there and at least in with a shout and that's what matters.

Now if we could just find a decent central midfielder and find a spot for Coleman in the team somewhere (though possibly further up the pitch as his defensive skills are very suspect) I'd be more optimistic. Hopefully Meyler, McCarthy or McCann have a Roy Keane esque next 5 months of club football with McCann getting a move to a Premiership club in January (Bolton possibly?). Unlikely but we can always hope.

[zero]

i don't think anyone is giving up - it's a tough group though. at least we're not denmark.

trap will have a plan for each of these games. maybe the same plan. my major concern is that he'll play for the draw v croatia, which is the most winnable of the three games.

if he does get us out of this group, it will be an amazing achievement.