Wes Hoolahan

[mark12345]

Anyone want to join the chorus. It's got to start now so as we have Wes in place for the friendlies next spring. Just
looking at the lad play on a quite a few occassions this season (latest versus Arsenal on Saturday) he is head and shoulders
above Whelan, Andrews, Gibson and even Fahey.

He makes things happen for Norwich - in a team that isn't blessed with talent. Surely his time has come to represent
his country? Not like we can afford to pass up his talents.

[Jicked]

Can he play the defensive sitting midfielder role? No, probably not.

Is he so good that he's worth changing our system for, to take advantage of his attacking qualities? No, probably not.

Trap wont be picking a 5 foot 5 attacking midfielder, even if he is playing well (for one of the worst teams in the league) to play in a defensive role, so I can't see him coming to Euro 2012.

[French Toasht]

Agree completely with Jicked. Doesn't fit into the system, and is therefor dispensable. We could try and reverse our whole system of play to accomodate him and we probably would play a slighty more attractive brand of football, but we probably wouldn't be going to the euros either. Armenia played the best brand of football in our group, but are they going to Poland and Ukraine?

[born2bwild]

If he's playing well for one of the worst teams then he's obviously playing well against superior opposition.

He's not too bad defensively anyhow. I'd like to see him play behind Keane in a 4-2-3-1. Trap
could keep his six man defence, put Doyle and Duff either side of Hoolohan.

Even more defensive than Trap's set up, I know, but for the two deep midfielders (two because we don't have a Roy Keane to set Trap's mind at ease in that position) I would like to see Gibson and McCarthy given a run out.

[Jicked]

If he's playing well for one of the worst teams then he's obviously playing well against superior opposition.


Or, he looks like shining by playing the odd lovely pass in a game where his team doing anything at all will be considered particularly good, even if the midfield he's a part of have been increasingly overrun.

With 5 top quality strikers, playing just one, and leaving out one of or best players in qualifying (McGeady) wouldnt happen whoever was in charge, let alone Trap who has proven that his system works.

[Closed Account]

I imagine that there'll be a good few threads like this before next summer. The media will have a flavour of every month and we'll hear loads of arguments for different players. The only chance of Hoolahan getting called up is if we get someone in the draw, who Trap looks at and says, "Right, 4-4-2 against them will get anihalated, we need to come up with a different gameplan, a change of mentalitee....".

Am I right in saying the only time we've played 4-3-3 was away to Italy when Folan came on? Have we played 4-5-1 aside from Robbie dropping deep? Otherwise he's put his best players out in the best postition he could. I'd like us to come up with an effective Plan B. Otherwise the other teams could just watch one of our games and figure us out, as Russia did in the Aviva.

I'd like to see Hoolahan get a go, but only in a friendly against someone in the top 2 seeds. He could be useful for example against Germany if he kept up his form. It'd require dropping Robbie but that's going to happen someday anyway. But not quite yet.

[tetsujin1979]

I imagine that there'll be a good few threads like this before next summer. The media will have a flavour of every month and we'll hear loads of arguments for different players. The only chance of Hoolahan getting called up is if we get someone in the draw, who Trap looks at and says, "Right, 4-4-2 against them will get anihalated, we need to come up with a different gameplan, a change of mentalitee....".

Am I right in saying the only time we've played 4-3-3 was away to Italy when Folan came on? Have we played 4-5-1 aside from Robbie dropping deep? Otherwise he's put his best players out in the best postition he could. I'd like us to come up with an effective Plan B. Otherwise the other teams could just watch one of our games and figure us out, as Russia did in the Aviva.

I'd like to see Hoolahan get a go, but only in a friendly against someone in the top 2 seeds. He could be useful for example against Germany if he kept up his form. It'd require dropping Robbie but that's going to happen someday anyway. But not quite yet.was it 4-5-1 against Uruguay, with McCarthy playing ahead of midfield?

[mark12345]

Can he play the defensive sitting midfielder role? No, probably not.

Is he so good that he's worth changing our system for, to take advantage of his attacking qualities? No, probably not.

Trap wont be picking a 5 foot 5 attacking midfielder, even if he is playing well (for one of the worst teams in the league) to play in a defensive role, so I can't see him coming to Euro 2012.


Change what system? Just put the boy on the park as a direct replacement for Whelan and detail him to do the same job that he would have done.

Wes shows for the ball, plays one twos, gets the return pass and generally finds a decent 'end product' pass. Quite often he finds a very threatening pass in the opposition half. He did it to great effect against Liverpool and again today against the class that is Arsenal F.C. So what more is there to understand about Hoolahan?
He can rub shoulders with some of the best players in Europe and have them chasing his shadow at times.

He's a very creative footballer who shows for the ball and helps his team retain possession. But, oh I forgot, we (Ireland) are so good at retaining possession. The qualifiers are over lads - time to take that step up against quality opposition. And we need people who can make things happen in midfield.

[Carrigaline]

Change what system? Just put the boy on the park as a direct replacement for Whelan and detail him to do the same job that he would have done.
:struggle:

The Arsenal match today showed exactly why Hoolahan can't fit the existing system. He did not trackback whatsoever today and the Norwich back 4 were completely exposed several times. It's a miracle how Arsenal didn't score 4 or 5 goals really. People don't seem to realise we have one of the weakest teams in the competition. If we try to play open attacking football against the likes of Spain, Germany, Italy or Holland, we are going to get absolutely destroyed. We have a chance against teams like this if we stick to our system and keep things tight and not leave gaps or space that can easily be exploited.

I will say that Hoolahan should be in the squad and deserves some sort of run out. I think his place in the team is an impact sub where we are chasing a game and have nothing to lose.

[Stuttgart88]

May I suggest Mark reads the zonalmarking article posted here recently?

I saw him today and wasn't blown away by any means. Decent enough, some nice touches but he plays too far ahead of the ball for Trap's system. Hoolahan, like Stephen Ireland, is a final third player. Where we need stengthening imho is the middle third.

I could see a role for him in a 4-4-1-1 in a game we really want to avoid losing above anything else, or maybe 4-4-2 when we're throwing caution to the wind, but then we have the long ball for that!

[Murfinator]

I like wes but he wouldn't add anything to our team. He's a 5-man midfield player, we don't play a 5-man midfield. It's as simple as that.

The mild clamor for him seems to be from mostly ignorant folk who've conveniently forgotten absolutely every midfield Trap has lined out with in the past 3 years. Just the usual foaming at the mouth brigade because some lad is playing well in the premiership, calling for their call up without any reason or logic as to how they'd operate in the international team.

Bit similar with Coleman, great player and all but his position is already filled very well by Duff, McGeady and Hunt. Even giving him his chance he's not going to improve our side very much because the guys ahead of him are doing so well already.

I'd rather see more chat about alternatives at Left Back and centre mid than positions we're triple filled for or in the case of Hoolahan positions that don't even exist.

[SkStu]

i hear what everyone is saying but isnt it more prudent for Trappatoni to see what he can do in a flat 4 (or as a wide man where he played a lot before Norwich) instead of assuming that he cant fit a system and therefore doesnt add to the pool of players we already have. If you try it and it doesnt work, good and well, youve learned something, you move on - but if you dont try it at all, well you'll just never know.

[Irwin3]

i hear what everyone is saying but isnt it more prudent for Trappatoni to see what he can do in a flat 4 (or as a wide man where he played a lot before Norwich) instead of assuming that he cant fit a system and therefore doesnt add to the pool of players we already have. If you try it and it doesnt work, good and well, youve learned something, you move on - but if you dont try it at all, well you'll just never know.

Nail on head.

[Stuttgart88]

We did try playing inventive final third players relatively recently. We got one point from 6 against Cyprus.

[theworm2345]

Anyone want to join the chorus.
How about you join in with the rest of us in not making pointless threads (this is basically the same as this (http://foot.ie/threads/158316-Wes-hoolahan-is-trap-off-his-head) one you made a month ago) and post in the player's usual thread, which I posted in your last daft thread.
http://foot.ie/threads/58807-Wes-Hoolahan

Alternately, theres a place where you and this sort of off the cuff nonsense would fit right in and I'm sure you'd be more than welcome: www.ybig.ie/forum

[tricky_colour]

We did try playing inventive final third players relatively recently. We got one point from 6 against Cyprus.

Ah! But it was grand point

[SwanVsDalton]

i hear what everyone is saying but isnt it more prudent for Trappatoni to see what he can do in a flat 4 (or as a wide man where he played a lot before Norwich) instead of assuming that he cant fit a system and therefore doesnt add to the pool of players we already have. If you try it and it doesnt work, good and well, youve learned something, you move on - but if you dont try it at all, well you'll just never know.

It's not assuming though, there are compelling reasons to both sides of the argument. And it could be considered prudent to offer opportunities to others who may be more likely to make an impact.

Not saying Hoolahan doesn't deserve a chance, just saying Trap, who knows his system inside out, possibly shouldn't buy into simply giving someone a go. It has to be fully justified and Hoolahan's a tight call - the guy would have to come into the team and not just do OK, he'd have to make a BIG impact. Would that be better than developing others in the squad who lack game time for instance? I'm not sure....

I'm happy either way to be honest. I'm not convinced Hoolahan would make a huge difference to our chances our team but I certainly wouldn't be against him getting a game. Just difficult to see with so little games between now and June.

[the bear]

what all the fuss about

the next friendly is the first logical time to bring him in since he's come on the international radar. he deserves a call up. no point building him up or writing him off before he gets a chance.

[Crosby87]

On Traps radar? :confused:

[SkStu]

It's not assuming though, there are compelling reasons to both sides of the argument. And it could be considered prudent to offer opportunities to others who may be more likely to make an impact. .

explain to me how it is not assuming? Until he sees him up close at practice it is an assumption. With regards to game time for other established squad members, its about seeing what Hoolahan (or anyone in the same position) can do in practice first.

People assumed the same thing about Keith Fahey and they were wrong. He played well in the system when he had the chance at games and now Trap always has him in the squad.

[Charlie Darwin]

Am I right in saying the only time we've played 4-3-3 was away to Italy when Folan came on? Have we played 4-5-1 aside from Robbie dropping deep? Otherwise he's put his best players out in the best postition he could. I'd like us to come up with an effective Plan B. Otherwise the other teams could just watch one of our games and figure us out, as Russia did in the Aviva.
I wouldn't call that a 4-3-3 either. Robbie dropped deep and we played a weird 4-4-2 without a right winger. It wasn't really that successful, all things considered, but we didn't really have a wing option to make it more structured.

[DannyInvincible]

explain to me how it is not assuming? Until he sees him up close at practice it is an assumption. With regards to game time for other established squad members, its about seeing what Hoolahan (or anyone in the same position) can do in practice first.

People assumed the same thing about Keith Fahey and they were wrong. He played well in the system when he had the chance at games and now Trap always has him in the squad.

Trap has already seen Hoolihan up close though and presumably decided he didn't fit the bill. Albeit it was over three years ago, but Hoolihan was part of the squad Trap took to Portugal in May of 2008 for a training camp, was an unused substitute a week or so later in a friendly against Serbia and made his senior international debut in a friendly against Colombia the following week, coming on as a substitute in the second half.

[SwanVsDalton]

explain to me how it is not assuming? Until he sees him up close at practice it is an assumption. With regards to game time for other established squad members, its about seeing what Hoolahan (or anyone in the same position) can do in practice first.

As DI pointed out, Trap has taken a look at him up close. He's more than likely kept an eye on him on him since too (albeit from afar). He's made a judgement on Hoolahan based on what he's seen and a tactical system he knows intrinsically. It's hardly an assumption. And Trap clearly didn't feel similarly about Fahey since he did involve him. Plus Fahey had the advantage of at least playing centre mid for his club - far as I can see, Hoolahan doesn't play centre mid in a flat four (could be wrong, maybe he's played in that position for the odd period here or there, but certainly not regularly).

Trap has to weigh it up - parachute a guy in who presumably he feels won't work in the current system or look at introducing/developing options who will. No assuming there.

Seems to me the manager might as well give O'Shea another go in there on that logic. That might sound facetious but I don't intend it - I just find it bizarre any manager, never mind one as successful as Trapattoni, should buy into 'giving guy's a go'. He clearly has his reasons and they're likely solid ones.

[SkStu]

yes DI definitely set me straight on that. To be honest i totally forgot his involvement at that time (as i suspect you did too) and thought he had just taken part in the B International. Anyway, i think it is a case of me picking my battles - Hoolahan, though i think he warrants another look during our pre tournament friendlies, isnt a "must" from my perspective.

[SwanVsDalton]

I was only thinking he'd played in the B International too, in fairness, but thought he'd been in a couple of early squads. Nae matter - I more or less agree with you on where he should be in the lead up to next summer.

[mark12345]

How about you join in with the rest of us in not making pointless threads (this is basically the same as this (http://foot.ie/threads/158316-Wes-hoolahan-is-trap-off-his-head) one you made a month ago) and post in the player's usual thread, which I posted in your last daft thread.
http://foot.ie/threads/58807-Wes-Hoolahan

Alternately, theres a place where you and this sort of off the cuff nonsense would fit right in and I'm sure you'd be more than welcome: www.ybig.ie/forum

Pointless threads? Daft thread? You clearly haven't a clue about football if you can't see the value in Hoolahan's performances.

[mark12345]

[QUOTE=Murfinator;1554232]I like wes but he wouldn't add anything to our team. He's a 5-man midfield player, we don't play a 5-man midfield. It's as simple as that. The mild clamor for him seems to be from mostly ignorant folk who've conveniently forgotten absolutely every midfield Trap has lined out with in the past 3 years. Just the usual foaming at the mouth brigade because some lad is playing well in the premiership, calling for their call up without any reason or logic as to how they'd operate in the international team.


"Just the usual foaming at the mouth brigade because some lad is playing well in the premiership, calling for their call up without any reason or logic as to how they'd operate in the international team."

You're way off base with that comment. Wes Hoolahan has been class since this time last year at least (at Norwich). I've seen him play his part in pummelling Championship teams (admittedly a level lower than the Prem but we have such players in Trap's team).

Hoolahan has proved himself at the top level in England. He's the playmaker at Norwich. How many other playmakers does Trap have at his disposal? None. I take all the points being made about Trap having his system etc. and I have resigned myself at this stage to thinking that Wes will not make the Euro finals, but it's a crying shame.

We need people who can hold the ball up and make things happen (ie to take the pressure off our overworked defence). I just hope those who find it ok to go to Poland / Ukraine with Whelan and Andrews don't come crying back for Hoolahan when things go wrong. .

[Predator]

Since Trap's fond of idioms pertaining to domestic pets, it's safe to say that you can't teach an old dog new tricks. It might let the cat out of the bag.

So in other words: I can't see Trapattoni changing his system for Ireland, meaning Hoolahan's chances are slim. For the Euros at least.

[The Fly]

Pointless threads? Daft thread? You clearly haven't a clue about football if you can't see the value in Hoolahan's performances.

He's not asking you not to share your views, but is asking that you to post your opinions on particular players in the threads specifically designated for them.

[mark12345]

So what part of daft and pointless pertains to posting in specific threads?

[The Fly]

Eh?

He's asking that you post your opinion of the player in the player's own thread (http://foot.ie/threads/58807-Wes-Hoolahan), as opposed to making a new one.

[OwlsFan]

Eh?

He's asking that you post your opinion of the player in the player's own thread (http://foot.ie/threads/58807-Wes-Hoolahan), as opposed to making a new one.

Not quite true. He followed up the telling off about not opening a new thread (with which I agree) with a bit of foot.ie snobbery.


Alternately, theres a place where you and this sort of off the cuff nonsense would fit right in and I'm sure you'd be more than welcome: www.ybig.ie/forum

I saw the highlights of the Arsenal/Norwich game and I found it hard to catch a glimpse of Hoolahan. Like Andy Reid before him, it is hard to see how he'll fit in Trap's system without dumping the long ball. Shame because he looks great on the ball and can pass to his own players from the little I have seen of him.

[toffeeforever]

id like to see wes get a run in the next few friendlies. he would be a different option. albeit he isnt someone to fit into our current system he could be a different option if needed off the bench.

[punkrocket]

If you cast your minds back to when Trap first got the job he was namechecking Greece, a country who had played defensive well organised football well enough to win a Euro Championship, and now that Ireland are playing defensive well organised defensive football and are about to go to a Euro championship what's the chances that he sticks with the tried and tested?
I can't see anyone new coming in at all, even when managing Italy in Korea part of the criticism after exiting was for sticking too rigidly with the old boys. In a crisis, maybe.

[Drumcondra 69er]

I think he'll get a chance in the friendlies.

However, I doubt that will be enough to see him in the final squad, too much of a luxury player to fit into Traps system. Doesn't provide any defensive cover.

And for the record, I've liked him as a player since his Shels days and am delighted to see him get his chance in the EPL.

[cufc champions]

There are players ahead of him in the squad who will get game time in the up coming friendlies, James McCarthy and Seamus Coleman will the sum of Trap's experimenting. David Meyler may have an outside chance of breaking into the squad but unfortunately for Wes I don't see him in the 23 man squad going to Polkraine.

[PatJR]

The clamour for Hoolahan is premature. Norwich (and their players) are enjoying a nice honeymoon period in the EPL due to pretty low expectations coming in but they will find it increasingly tough and that where you see if Wes & co really have it at this level. It won't be easy for him to force his way into the squad\team nor should it be as we have a successful side right now!! But I think if he does continue to play well over the winter he will get a chance in the friendlies. There is this notion out that Trap is reluctant to try players out, in reality this is complete nonsense. Plenty would have said that Keith Fahy was not Trap's kind of player.

[theworm2345]

Not quite true. He followed up the telling off about not opening a new thread (with which I agree) with a bit of foot.ie snobbery.
Its not foot.ie snobbery, this place certainly has it faults, its sheer disappointment/anger at what the other site has turned in to. I really don't think I was asking too much seeing as everyone else manages to follow the protocol.

[drummerboy]

Don't think Wes will even get a chance to impress Trap. He doesn't fit into his perceived view of a central midfield player. Very similar type of player to Andy Reid.

[geysir]

I would be a follower of the 'one true thread per player' belief and won't stray from that by posting an opinion here.

It's besides the point that I haven't seen Wes play since his Shelbourne days.

[Murfinator]

i hear what everyone is saying but isnt it more prudent for Trappatoni to see what he can do in a flat 4 (or as a wide man where he played a lot before Norwich) instead of assuming that he cant fit a system and therefore doesnt add to the pool of players we already have. If you try it and it doesnt work, good and well, youve learned something, you move on - but if you dont try it at all, well you'll just never know.

What you're suggesting is trap should trial a fellow in an unfamiliar position he has zero credentials to play in (defensive midfielder) or to trial him as a winger when we're overflooded with wingers and already have the likes of Coleman desperately clamoring for a chance there?

Lets be serious now. Hoolahan cannot play in a 2-man trap midfield and he's probably our 7th choice wide player. In fact possibly 8th come the Euros given the rapid rise Brady is going through. There's no much incentive to trial him anywhere unless we get a string of serious injuries to wide players or he turns into a top tier player overnight. Given that he's almost 30 I don't see that happening.

[OwlsFan]

Don't worry about him being 30. That's possibly 2 more campaigns.

We had major injuries going in to the 3 campaigns in 1988, 1990 and 1994. Hopefully, the same won't happen for 2012 but let's not rule Hoolahan out yet.

[irishfan86]

I think he'd be worth having in the squad as a backup to Robbie. Different type of player obviously but if Robbie were unavailable *knock wood*, he could be an option in a 4-4-1-1 just behind the lead striker.

And as mentioned if we're chasing a game and need some offense in the middle why not have him on the bench if we're desperate and need to push for a goal?

[Serb]

I think he'd be worth having in the squad as a backup to Robbie. Different type of player obviously but if Robbie were unavailable *knock wood*, he could be an option in a 4-4-1-1 just behind the lead striker.

And as mentioned if we're chasing a game and need some offense in the middle why not have him on the bench if we're desperate and need to push for a goal?

I don't think this makes any sense. If we were chasing a goal, why would we play Hoolahan at all? He's not exactly renowned for his goal scoring ability. He would never be included in the squad as backup for Keane or any other striker. That's what Long, Cox, Walters, Best, Keogh, Folan and Stokes are for. If he gets included, it will only ever be as a winger, and I think all of our wide options in the squad are better than him.

[mark12345]

I guess someone's watching Norwich. And if Pilkington does go to Anfield in January, he'll have a big Thank You for Wes, I'm sure.

http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/soccer_irish/65836/

[The Fly]

Can one of moderators merge the threads?

[Closed Account]

Norwich City trio on Republic of Ireland’s watch-list


http://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city-fc/norwich_city_trio_on_republic_of_ireland_s_watch_l ist_1_1135865


Republic of Ireland coach Marco Tardelli last night revealed that Norwich City trio Wes Hoolahan, Anthony Pilkington and Marc Tierney are firmly on his international radar.

The former World Cup winner, who was at Carrow Road to see the Canaries take on Arsenal, admitted he and Ireland manager Giovanni Trapattoni were weighing up all their options with regards to their final 23-man Euro2012 squad.

It leaves the door open for an international return for Hoolahan who won his only senior cap under Trapattoni in 2008 in a friendly against Colombia.

“I know him (Hoolahan) from two or three years ago when we arrived in Ireland. He is a good player, good quality, a skilful player and I think now more experienced than three years ago,” said Tardelli, who has watched Hoolahan become one of the key players in City’s success story.

It’s Hoolahan’s ability to play a creative midfield role or as support to a lone striker in a 4-5-1 formation that works well in his favour.

Clearly, a lot will rest on the 29-year-old Dubliner’s performances for the Canaries if he is to break into the squad as the only international friendly lined up, possibly against England, is in February. The other warm-up matches come too close to the actual tournament for much experimentation.

“He (Hoolahan) can play in midfield but he can also play as the second striker. He sometimes plays in this position for Norwich which I think is good. Having many options is very good because there are many good young players and it is good for the team,” said Tardelli, who as well as weighing up who might feature in the team for the February friendly also admitted the Ireland management keep a constant eye on what goes on at Carrow Road.

He added: “We follow all players and we decide, Giovanni decides, when will be the right moment.

“Maybe it is possible they could play in the friendly but I cannot say for sure. They know that we follow them, if they play everything is possible.”

While all three City players will potentially be hoping to break into the Ireland squad for next year’s Euro Championship Tardelli also admitted he sees the likes of Pilkington, 23, and Tierney, 26, as the future.

Midfielder Pilkington has also worn the green shirt before, winning a solitary Under-21 cap against Lithuania in 2008, while left-back Tierney is also eligible.

“The Norwich team they are good players also Pilkington and Tierney is a good player. For us and the international team it is very good because they are young players for the future.”

The Republic of Ireland, who qualified for their first major finals since the 2002 World Cup, are in the fourth group of seeds alongside Denmark, the Czech Republic and France.

That means they cannot face the French, who knocked them out in a controversial World Cup qualification play-off two years ago, in the group stages.

There will be 16 teams in Poland and Ukraine, divided into four pots for the draw in Kiev on Friday, December 2, at 5pm.

[tricky_colour]

Interesting, I occasionally post the Actim Index Irish players in these threads, I just took a look today and noticed Pilkington and Tierney at places 57 and 56 respectively, I am pretty sure I totally missed them off my list last time, as they were not 'obviously' Irish (to me) either that or they have jumped in at a high position. There are 10 Irish who available to pick in there. Hoolihan is not in there currently but then Duff isn't either.

http://www.premierleague.com/page/PlayerPerformanceIndex

[tricky_colour]

Assist for goal here.
http://soccerblogvideo.blogspot.com/2011/11/norwich-city-2-1-qpr-martin-holt-young.html