The UK and poppies?

[legendz]

What's the story with the UK and poppies? I know it's a tradition etc. but it seems to have grown out of control in the last few years. From what I can recall only one or two clubs had poppies initially. Now all clubs are at it. Now there's this uproar by them across the water that the England national team can't wear a poppy. It hasn't been an issue in previous games they've played in the month of November.

[Macy]

It's ridiculous. Great marketing coup by the British Legion - Rememberence Sunday has now become Poppy Day, to the exclusion of all other losses in the wars. I've banged on about it before, but reserved occupations don't get due recognition in the UK, by State, Commentators and British Legion, and that is my main objection to the Poppy Appeal. The Merchant Navy lost more than the Royal Navy, but unless things have changed in recent years, they get little or no money from the Poppy Appeal and only lipservice around Rememberance Sunday. Reserved Occupations were not allowed to leave that position for military service, even if they wanted to.

[Dodge]

Its frankly ridiculous. The British minister for Sport even said that wearing the poppy was a sign of 'national pride'. Which, of course, misses the point about poppies completely.

Can't remember which commentator said it yesterday but he got it spot on "if anyone is forced to wear a poppy, it loses all value"

Don't watch x-factor but remmebr seeing a previous contestent's picture in the paper with her wearing sod all and poppy plastered on leather(ish) pants. That's repectfully remembering the people who fought and died for a country?

[Dodge]

http://blogs.channel4.com/snowblog/wear-poppy-air/16514

5 years on, this is more relevent now than ever. Jon Snow's view on poppy fascism

[Stuttgart88]

I think I'm in a relative minority over here - an Irishman who wears a poppy. My (Irish) ancestors fought in WW1 and I think it's an appropriate memorial to the massive loss of young lives.

However, I've also been conscious of the symbol's capacity to be hijacked for nationalist purposes.

This article takes the biscuit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/8878003/England-v-Spain-lets-play-by-Sepp-Blatters-rules-but-still-turn-Wembley-into-a-field-of-poppies.html

Winter might as well be advocating the chanting of "Two world wars and one world cup" and "One Bomber Harris" ditties liked by England fans on away trips.

He completely misses the point. It was nationalism that caused the tragedies of both world wars. This proposed "display" of nationalism disgusts me. Why should armed forces be represented at a football match, regardless of the time of year, rather than, say, nurses or binmen or other servants of the public good? Because in England they cross the line between benign and malignant nationalism when it comes to sport, in my opinion.

[bennocelt]

A joke over here, more of a fashion statement on tv now than anything.
I was told to feck off back to Ireland after i refused to buy one in a bar! But walking along the streets, etc not as many wear the poppy as you would expect.
Why celebrate soldiers - far worthy to celebrate doctors, nurses, teachers, binmen than trained killers IMHO
(just finished reading the excellent Jim fredericks book on the infamous USA Black Heart regiment in Afghanistan - bit harrowing and certainly not the conduct that one expects from "heroes" or the like!) (eh called Black Hearts)

[Macy]

Just for the record, I had ancestors (both Irish and English) in the British Armed Forces in WW1, and also WW2. However, there's been a blurring of the lines meaning that the only way to remember is through a British Legion fundraiser, which isn't right imo.

[Dodge]

Why celebrate soldiers - far worthy to celebrate doctors, nurses, teachers, binmen than trained killers IMHO
I've no issue with remembering soldiers who've died. You don't have to agree with every decision made by the British government to recodnise that they've done some good in the past...

But it has to be a personal choice for anyone

[bennocelt]

Not when its clearly used as a rally around the troops thing though, surely? People seem to forget whats going in Iraq and Afghanistan (Iran in future?), and this constant "hero" message is a little off putting. If you cared about dead soldiers then surely dont send them into (illegal) wars in the first place!
Anyway Fisk has a good one here
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-do-those-who-flaunt-the-poppy-on-their-lapels-know-that-they-mock-the-war-dead-6257416.html

[SwanVsDalton]

Two EDL members have apparently taken to the FIFA HQ roof to protest. Seriously.

[Dodge]

Not when its clearly used as a rally around the troops thing though, surely?

Well thats because its been hijacked. I wouldn't wear/buy one myself but the notion of remembering soldiers past itself isn't the reason why

[horton]

I hopefully won't be getting into trouble with the mods for posting this, but I'm copying it from our forum, highlighting some of the actions of the soldiers the poppy goes to support:
http://huddleboard.net/rip.jpg

The British Govt sent its troops to Iraq, Afghanisation, Norn Irn and everywhere else they have been on operations. Paying for funerals, rehab for those wounded, to me, should come completely from Govt funds. Not getting out the begging bowl every year and castigate some members of the public who don't contribute. I'll never wear one but it's not entirely because I grew up in the troubles!

[Spudulika]

Any time a country has to use such inappropriate symbolism to boost it's "unity" the place is dying on its feet. I've seen it in many places, in Russia if you don't wear or display the little orange and black ribbons you get shouted at - during victory day celebrations. Though I always respond - I don't care that you beat Poland and barely beat Finland, it's nothing to be proud of.

More people suffered in the wars (at times) initiated by the British government, but as in any other well managed democracy, symbolism is important to keep everyone "on message".

[bennocelt]

Poppywatch! Bonner and Kerr on Sky no poppy, but Holland and Mcateer on jazerra both wearing them, funny that!

[jebus]

It's the hypocrisy of it all that gets to me. David Cameron slamming Fifa over England not being allowed wear them by saying they honour their war heroes and treasure them whilst all the while England's care facilities for the elderly are a shambles, so much so that the EU were highly critical of them in the summer, and the Tories are planning further cuts to their funding.

[Not Brazil]

But it has to be a personal choice for anyone

Nail on the head Dodge.

No one should be forced to wear a Poppy - it is a clear matter of choice.

I wear a Poppy for three days at this time of year - I respect the right of those who choose not to.

[Not Brazil]

Poppywatch! Bonner and Kerr on Sky no poppy, but Holland and Mcateer on jazerra both wearing them, funny that!

What's funny about it?