View Full Version : UEFA Co-Efficiency League
eoinh
15/07/2004, 10:40 PM
Even though we did quite well in Europe today and yesterday, the league has managed to slip down one place (overtaken by Iceland) from 38th to 39th.
See here (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2005.html)
adamcarr
15/07/2004, 10:59 PM
Behind Iceland by 0.001% :( Just ahead of Liectenstein :eek: ...Look at the French league! :o
adamcarr
15/07/2004, 11:00 PM
Northern Ireland are 44th!
gspain
16/07/2004, 8:53 AM
It's not looking good as an Icelandic team won in Wales last night and will no doubt win the return. A Lithuanian side cam efrom 2 down to draw in Portadown and should win at home too.
We need Shels to beat KR i.e. win the match not just the tie.
Furthermore next year we will lose 2000/1 results which are a huge part of our current coefficient - Bohs beating Aberdeen and Kaiserslautern and Shels beating Sloga.
On the positive side we've already equalled last year's score without playing a home match.
Bohs should win at home. 0.3333
Shels$ win or even draw 0.333/0.1666
Longford should not lose. 0.1666
So that would another 0.666 minimum with more games to come?
I can't ever remember the eL been on 4+ ranking points which isn't such a leap this year. Would be a hige breakthrough but would still be progress.
paudie
16/07/2004, 9:38 AM
We need to win 2 or 3 of the home legs to make a bit of progress.
If you look at the last 3 seasons including 04/05 the Northern Ireland coefficient is better than ours.
Maybe we're not as superior to them as we like to think!
PS Why do some of the top leagues have a score for 04/05 when they haven't played any games yet?
PS Why do some of the top leagues have a score for 04/05 when they haven't played any games yet?
Some of their clubs are already in the CL grouip stages & there s a bonus (1 point i think) for reaching the group stages. Something like that anyway...
pineapple stu
16/07/2004, 5:54 PM
Even though we did quite well in Europe today and yesterday, the league has managed to slip down one place (overtaken by Iceland) from 38th to 39th.
I think if you take it from the end of last season and not the start of this season (i.e. including the 1999/2000 (?) results), we're up from 40th to 39th. Which is slightly better, but not much! Realistically, though, we need at least one point this season, which should be attainable (two of the three teams to win at home).
InterToto doesn't count of course, more's the pity... :(
eoinh
21/07/2004, 10:06 PM
Ireland remain at 39th place after tonights draw. We have to gain agood few points to stand still this season as we lose all of our points from five years ago when bohs had their great run.
good to see all 4 irish clubs still in europe :)
Thats nine matchs played in european competition and still no live coverage on TV of our teams performances in europe. Having said that the radio coverage on RTE was excellent. Totally professional. Although Ollie was still whinning. Had a go at Drogheda (i presume) and "others".
Co-efficiency table here (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2005.html)
It says though, on that page, that it was last updated at 20:44 yesterday ! So, how could it include the Shelbourne match when the match was over at 21:30 ???
It says though, on that page, that it was last updated at 20:44 yesterday ! So, how could it include the Shelbourne match when the match was over at 21:30 ???
Well spotted. That table not been updated for Ireland anway cos we had 0.333 point for 2005 yesterday before the match & still have 0.333 points.
I'm optimistic of at least 1.0 points from this season & averaging that each year would push to 32-33rd place.
Well spotted. That table not been updated for Ireland anway cos we had 0.333 point for 2005 yesterday before the match & still have 0.333 points.
I'm optimistic of at least 1.0 points from this season & averaging that each year would push to 32-33rd place.
actually if you check it pete, we have .500 points.
We're still behind Iceland but have a chance in the next round to gain points and push us above Iceland.
Ive noticed on his site that his time zone is a bit odd. Its UTC whatever that is. So, the table does accurately reflect Irelands position
sullanefc
22/07/2004, 9:54 AM
Last update: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:44:10 UTC What is UTC? Is that something similar to CET except in the summer? If this is the case then that would explain the time difference. And it says we have 0.5 pts in 2005. Is there any official table anywhere?
UTC is Universal Time, which is the same as GMT.
20.44 GMT = 21.44 local time (summer saving hour added); hence updated after match was finished.
[patsh, look at the time of your post (GMT); now look at your watch (local time)]
I refreshed & it updated now.
Interesting to see 4 countries ahead of us got knocked out of CL.
IMO top 30 within 5 years is good if not spectacular target.
eirebhoy
22/07/2004, 11:02 AM
If Longford and Boh's win next week we'll have almost 4 points with most like 3 teams still playing in europe. Lets say we then get a win and a draw in the next round (from all 3 teams, Boh's will be seeded), that gives us an extra 0.5 points which is a total of 4.5.
I think we'd overtake Macedonia with that. Pobeda Prilep were knocked out of the CL. Sileks Kratovo lost 1-0 at home and Sloga Skopje lost 4-0 away from home. I can't see any Macedonian club gaining another point.
I definitely think we'd overtake Belarus with 4.5. FC Gomel are out of the CL. BATE lost 3-2 at home. Shakhtior drew 1-1 away from home.
We should also overtake Iceland.
higgins
22/07/2004, 11:54 AM
the real place to get points is in the first round of the competition...
I wouldnt expect shels to get anything form the split game??
maybe a draw at most in one leg!
Bohs on the other hand have a great chance this year in the UEFA and if they avoid the big teams could go on and pick up a few points..
Maybe even a group stage on the cards if they drew the likes of Hearts in the third round :)
Schumi
22/07/2004, 12:06 PM
How is the UEFA Cup organised this year? What's the group stage set-up and how many rounds do you have to win to get into it?
De Town
22/07/2004, 12:08 PM
How is the UEFA Cup organised this year? What's the group stage set-up and how many rounds do you have to win to get into it?
there is 2 qualifying rounds and then there is 1 kockout round were all the big teams come in and then there is group stages
eirebhoy
27/07/2004, 8:59 PM
Boh's fecked it up for us tonight. We are currently 39th in the rankings, if Longford and Shels don't win a game we will start next season in about 43rd.
our best year is from 5 years ago. we lose those points at the end of the season. if shels and longford dont start picking up serious points we wont be seeded next season. that makes a huge difference in terms of progressing in europe.
eirebhoy
27/07/2004, 9:17 PM
Longford should win on Thursday, I don't think Shels will get a draw in either leg against Split. 1 win would give us an extra 0.333. That would leave us with 2 points for next season. We'll still drop below Albania, Malta, Armenia and Leichtenstein.
Terrible result in Dalymount. I'm really dissappointed for Bohs.....:(
Slash/ED
27/07/2004, 9:49 PM
There's no reason why Shels can't get some kind of points even if we don't go through, we got a draw away to Rosenborg in that season we're about to lose.
eirebhoy
27/07/2004, 9:56 PM
I just can't see us getting more than 0.333. Maybe if both Shels and Longford draw. :)
eoinh
27/07/2004, 10:04 PM
Is our league really this bad?
We cant use the excuse of it being out of season for us anymore? :confused:
tiktok
27/07/2004, 10:18 PM
Is our league really this bad?
I honestly expected all four EL teams to go through their first rounds this year. I'm going to wait until I get a match report but I can't understanmd how Bohs let this one slip with an away draw under their belt against what seemed like inferior opposition
Slash/ED
27/07/2004, 10:23 PM
I think this is a one off really. Hopefully. Bohs have been woefully inconsistent and poor at home at times this year and sadly that's carried on into Europe. I mean, CHF took six points off them from two matches so far this year but that doesn't make them a better team.
pineapple stu
27/07/2004, 11:40 PM
Good news - the 1.666 will carry forward to one more season before being dropped.
Bad news - if you go to the database section from the main website and go to the 2006 rankings, we're 44th - behind Wales!!!! :eek: :(
paudie
28/07/2004, 12:32 PM
Unless Longford win our points for this year will be only marginally up on last year.
Shels will do very well not to lose both legs to be honest (hope I'm proved wrong)
Over the last 3 years our points have been no better than NI teams, disproving what many EL fans seem to assume, ie that EL clubs are better than IL clubs.
This isn't being proved by Euro results, even since summer soccer started.
This isn't being proved by Euro results, even since summer soccer started.[/QUOTE]
But it has by results in the Intertoto! Anyway, Pat's beat a Croat team a couple of years ago and then lost on an away goal to Gent. Not all hope is lost!!
Slash/ED
28/07/2004, 1:32 PM
Unless Longford win our points for this year will be only marginally up on last year.
Shels will do very well not to lose both legs to be honest (hope I'm proved wrong)
Over the last 3 years our points have been no better than NI teams, disproving what many EL fans seem to assume, ie that EL clubs are better than IL clubs.
This isn't being proved by Euro results, even since summer soccer started.
I find that amazing. Four of the past five seasons in the champions league we've progressed to the next round, we've had some good UEFA cup results int hat time too and some superb inter toto runs. As far as I know the NI teams have not progressed to the second round nearly as much as ourselves. Am I wrong in saying that? but unless I'm missing something obvious I can barely remember the last time a NI team progressed in the champions league.
tiktok
28/07/2004, 1:34 PM
some superb inter toto runs.
they don't contribute I'm afraid :(
no points again tonight. However shels result gives hope for their home leg. If they win that they get to play in at least four more matchs with the chance to gain the league more points.
Do your stuff tomorrow longford.
This year could be brilliant for EL clubs or a disaster.
For latest rankings see here (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2005.html)
cityrebel1
29/07/2004, 10:05 AM
lads, i don't know if i'm understanding this right, but since it's the 05 ranking then the bohs results from years back will still be included, i.e the 05 ranking is for the start of next season 2005-2006 competitions????
eirebhoy
29/07/2004, 10:08 AM
If they win that they get to play in at least four more matchs
? If they win, they play another 2 legged round.
? If they win, they play another 2 legged round.
When they lose that they get into 1st round proper of UEFA Cup = 4 games total.
eirebhoy
29/07/2004, 10:38 AM
When they lose that they get into 1st round proper of UEFA Cup = 4 games total.
No they don't. If you come 3rd in the group you go into the UEFA cup.
gspain
29/07/2004, 11:01 AM
When they lose that they get into 1st round proper of UEFA Cup = 4 games total.
Who says they are going to lose? :)
Seriously it would be absolutely incredible if Shels can pull this off and beat Hadjuk.
Yes they are guaranteed a UEFA Cup spot in September if they beat Hadjuk and IF they lose to Man Utd/Real Madrid.
A win for Shels over Hadjuk is potentially worth millions and with the draw tomorrow there is the chance for Shels fans to dream. However to beat Hadjuk at home Shels are going to have to improve on last night's fantastic performance.
DolansWaistcoat
29/07/2004, 11:01 AM
No they don't. If you come 3rd in the group you go into the UEFA cup.
Yes they do,if you lose the 3rd qualifier for the Champs league which shels will be in if they progress against split then you get a uefa cup 1st round spot.Newcastle lost last year against belgrade in the 3rd qualifier and went onto the uefa cup semi later that season.Celtic were beaten by Basle in the 3rd Qualifier a few years ago and they went into the uefa cup too.
Would be brilliant for us if Shels got through the 2nd stage,might face Real Madrid or Man u and still have the compensation of being in the uefa cup when/if they lose. :)
eirebhoy
29/07/2004, 11:16 AM
Yes they do,if you lose the 3rd qualifier for the Champs league which shels will be in if they progress against split then you get a uefa cup 1st round spot.
I stand corrected, and happily. :)
Potential Shels (seeded) opponents in 3rd qualifying round.
Real Madrid Esp 146.351
Manchester United Eng 119.510
Deportivo La Coruña Esp 104.351
Liverpool Eng 90.510
Juventus Ita 84.531
Internazionale Ita 82.531
PSV Eindhoven Ned 65.246
Bayer Leverkusen Ger 62.331
Sparta Praha ** Cze 54.915
Anderlecht Bel 49.529
AS Monaco Fra 51.947
Club Brugge ** Bel 43.529
Glasgow Rangers Sco 42.601
Rosenborg BK ** Nor 42.227
PAOK Thessaloniki Gre 41.467
Dinamo Kiev Ukr 41.301
IMO best chance of getting to group stages would be to play & beat the top ranked 2nd round teams (Sparta Prague, Club Brugge or Rosenborg). 3rd round draw is made based on assumption of seeded teams winning round 2 so when you beat them you automatically get 'seeded' in round 3.
Big TV money for draw against top half of that list though.
gspain
29/07/2004, 12:54 PM
Of course the sweetest thing of all if Shels were to make the Group Stages - (I know I'm dreaming now) would be that RTE would not be allowed to show "insert your favourite British team" live and would have to televise Shelbourne's games. Of course as a public service broadcaster they could keep showing Police Academy Six instead.
paudie
29/07/2004, 1:18 PM
I find that amazing. Four of the past five seasons in the champions league we've progressed to the next round, we've had some good UEFA cup results int hat time too and some superb inter toto runs. As far as I know the NI teams have not progressed to the second round nearly as much as ourselves. Am I wrong in saying that? but unless I'm missing something obvious I can barely remember the last time a NI team progressed in the champions league.
Over the most recent 4 seasons, including this one, our points total is 1.665.
For the IL it's 1.484.
I would have thought we'd have a lot better record than them alright. I don't think an IL teams has won a round in nearly ten years.
The season before that our points total for one season was 1.666! That was the year Bohs beat Aberdeen and Kaiserlautern.
The problem is EL teams aren't winning enough games. They're drawing a lot of them even when they are going through, like Shels this year against KR.
As said elsewhere intertoto games don't count for points.
Over the most recent 4 seasons, including this one, our points total is 1.665.
For the IL it's 1.484.
I would have thought we'd have a lot better record than them alright. I don't think an IL teams has won a round in nearly ten years.
Well Glentoran are coming close to it. :confused:
gspain
29/07/2004, 2:43 PM
no conspiracy theories here - going through a round doesn't help the coefficient if you then lose both games in the next round. i.e. if Shels lose at home to Hadjuk then Shels and KR will contribute the same to our respective country's coefficients. The really big contributions are home and away wins.
system is pretty fair although no bonus points for getting through.
After next year we will lose 2000/01 season which is a massive loss with Shels v Sloga and Bohs wins v Aberdeen and Kaiserslautern. Bohs will laso lose a club coefficient which very few teams have at our stage as it is only earned by results from September on.
after tonights results we slip to 40th place. see here (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2005.html). Longford have managed to give Liectenstein more points tonight than all their results in the last 5 years combined. :mad:
eL Bettor
30/07/2004, 7:59 AM
Greetings Gentlemen (and ladies)
Can someone tell me the no. of points for home wins/draws and away wins/draws for this co-efficient league and do they go up as you get through the rounds?
Greetings Gentlemen (and ladies)
Can someone tell me the no. of points for home wins/draws and away wins/draws for this co-efficient league and do they go up as you get through the rounds?
The basis for the UEFA rankings is the performance of teams in the European Cups during a five year period. During that period each team gets two points for a win and one point for a draw. From 1999 on these points are halved for qualification matches: one point for a win and half a point for a draw. One bonus point is allocated for reaching the quarter final, the semi final and the final. Reaching the first round of the Champions League yields one bonus point. The so-called UEFA coefficients are calculated by taking an average, based on the total number of points divided by the total number of teams of each country.
fosterdollar
30/07/2004, 8:41 AM
total number of teams in europe, total number of teams who gained the points or total number of league teams?
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