Expectations

[mypost]

We've scored 15 goals in this campaign, and won 6 games. We win the games we need to, and we get the results we need in most of the others. We're positive when we have to be. A different coach may have us more gung-ho, but whether he'd get the same results or not is a different question.

[gormacha]

A different coach may have us more gung-ho, but whether he'd get the same results or not is a different question.

That's not the argument me and the others who are critical are making. We are (or at least "I am") saying is that we are playing hoofball, and that we would be more successful if we got the ball down on the deck and passed it.

We weren't playing Spain ffs. If we don't think we can outplay Armenia, who do we think we can outplay? Talk about setting your sights low. We are better than this.

I said it yesterday and no-one came back to challenge me on it, so I'll say it again. Does anyone disagree that our best spell of the match, where we looked at our most comfortable, was the opening fifteen minutes of the second half when we got the ball down and played?

[jbyrne]

I said it yesterday and no-one came back to challenge me on it, so I'll say it again. Does anyone disagree that our best spell of the match, where we looked at our most comfortable, was the opening fifteen minutes of the second half when we got the ball down and played?


no. it was good passing for about 15 mins at the start of the second half and we looked somewhat able to pull it off quite well. it was the right way to try and get a 2nd against the 10 men. our full backs and ctre mids pushed on and if we were playing a better team we may have been caught on the counter like when we pushed on against Italy after going 2-1 up and ultimately conceded as a result. given the players we have its a fine line between palying it safe and taking risks

[SwanVsDalton]

Think Osarusan largely summed up how I feel, well said.

As someone more interested in results, my main disappointment is we yet again have failed to take a victory against a decent side. The wins against Armenia and Macedonia showed we've developed a more clinical edge against middling teams but not beating a stuttering Slovakian side, particularly at home, was a missed opportunity. Being hard to beat is one thing but, to teams of a certain stature, we're hard to lose too as well.

Tactically we still lack the ability to change the tempo, control the game and squeeze the opposition if there of a similar stature to us. Can't help but feel until we develop a second gear (at least) we'll struggle.

But even in mentality (Trap's favourite word) I think we'll lack something until we take a minor scalp. Not beating these teams is an ever-growing question mark over an improving squad, and they'll know they still have questions to answer. Managing a crucial victory against one of the continent's better sides will bring this squad on even further and give them the extra belief they might need to actually play a bit more football.

So odd in a year when we've barely conceded to be so downbeat, but some of the stuff we've played has been just horrific. Credit to Trap for building a much better squad than the one he inherited but it's time for him to realise these guys can do a bit more than hoof.

[Real ale Madrid]

no. it was good passing for about 15 mins at the start of the second half and we looked somewhat able to pull it off quite well. it was the right way to try and get a 2nd against the 10 men. our full backs and ctre mids pushed on and if we were playing a better team we may have been caught on the counter like when we pushed on against Italy after going 2-1 up and ultimately conceded as a result. given the players we have its a fine line between palying it safe and taking risks

Mind boggling. I didn't see us take ANY risks during the first 10 mins of the second half last Tuesday! Jaysus - I'd hate to be a full back in a team coached by you - I'd be afraid to cross the halfway line!

[Stuttgart88]

Just when I get frustrated with Trap's performances, the man turns on the charm and wins me over again.

Some good stuff in here:

http://www.examiner.ie/sport/soccer/trap-looks-to-the-next-step-170548.html

[jbyrne]

Mind boggling. I didn't see us take ANY risks during the first 10 mins of the second half last Tuesday! Jaysus - I'd hate to be a full back in a team coached by you - I'd be afraid to cross the halfway line!

risks in traps eyes is what i meant.
played full back myself for 10 years and scored about 4/5 goals each season so fully support full backs getting forward!
have a look at holland friendly a few years ago and last 5 mins of Italy match in 2009 and tell me what you think about our players pushing on

[Real ale Madrid]

risks in traps eyes is what i meant.
played full back myself for 10 years and scored about 4/5 goals each season so fully support full backs getting forward!
have a look at holland friendly a few years ago and last 5 mins of Italy match in 2009 and tell me what you think about our players pushing on

I'm not going back to watch the Holland game - but didn't we give the ball away in the build-up to the Italy equaliser? Proves nothing except top sides punish you if you make mistakes - regardless of your tactics. Again I'm not looking for us to play gung-ho 3-4-3 all out attack football - just merely keep the ball better.

[punkrocket]

Expectations? Just risen sharply.

[Fixer82]

He was wrong about Steven Ireland, he was wrong about Andy Reid, he thought Steven Ward was a striker.


Actually I think he was right about all those players

[Stuttgart88]

Let's get a bit of perspective here:

June 1990:

Played muck in a muck game against England. Drew.
Played even worse in an even worse game against Egypt. Drew.
Played OK against Holland, took advantage of a goalkeeping goof. Drew.
Played OK against Romania and barely mustered an effort on goal. Drew 0-0.
Played OK against Italy, had one effort on goal, a Quinn header saved by Zenga.

5 games. 4 draws and a defeat.

Result? National adulation, open top bus rides, full Phoenix park, etc. Not to mention 17 years of economic growth and a property boom.

21 years later.

Played 10, won 6, drawn 3, lost one. 21 points.

Result? Derision.

[shakermaker1982]

Look at the sides that 1990 team played though Stutts!

[Stuttgart88]

Egypt?

Point partially taken!

[Charlie Darwin]

Just imagine how much the 1990 team could have achieved with Jon Walters in the side.

[bennocelt]

Let's get a bit of perspective here:

June 1990:

Played muck in a muck game against England. Drew.
Played even worse in an even worse game against Egypt. Drew.
Played OK against Holland, took advantage of a goalkeeping goof. Drew.
Played OK against Romania and barely mustered an effort on goal. Drew 0-0.
Played OK against Italy, had one effort on goal, a Quinn header saved by Zenga.

5 games. 4 draws and a defeat.

Result? National adulation, open top bus rides, full Phoenix park, etc. Not to mention 17 years of economic growth and a property boom.

21 years later.

Played 10, won 6, drawn 3, lost one. 21 points.

Result? Derision.

OMG thats shocking!!!! Names like Mcgrath, Hagi, Gullit, Baresi, Maldini, Hoddle, Lineker, etc etc etc
Wow:rolleyes:

[Stuttgart88]

Were we going "of my God, we don't play pretty football"? England and Egypt were shyte, Romania had Hagi and that was it.

Just saying that wc were happy to accept results over style at least once in the past.

[paul_oshea]

ya i agree stutts sure everyone said the style jack charlton adopted was puck football, now they are looking on nostalgically with the thought of qualifying or just another stick to beat the team with as being complete ****e, i think it might just be another vendetta now they look close to qualifying.

I'm not happy with what a lot of Trap does or how we play and why we dont pressure but no one can say its any different to how its always been bar a few years under mccarthy.

[the bear]

ya i agree stutts sure everyone said the style jack charlton adopted was puck football, now they are looking on nostalgically with the thought of qualifying or just another stick to beat the team with as being complete ****e, i think it might just be another vendetta now they look close to qualifying.

I'm not happy with what a lot of Trap does or how we play and why we dont pressure but no one can say its any different to how its always been bar a few years under mccarthy.

remember when mccarthy tried tor bring in the 3-5-2?

[paul_oshea]

Ya thats cos his selection of backs was atrocious :D

[gastric]

The difference between now and then was it seemed inconceivable that we could ever beat England, particularly in our first game at a major championship. No one in Ireland felt we could do it. It helped our national self-confidence and due to the fact that we beat England of all teams, our style of play wasn't seen as an issue, in fact, it showed a uniqueness that we were happy to go along with. The difference between now and then is twofold. Route One Football, while not attractive was entertaining and intimidated most other teams, while today our style is still unattractive, but also not entertaining. The last time I felt we played with passion, purpose and style was the infamous game in Paris. I felt proud, engaged and entertained.

The players today lack the relationship that existed in the past. They players of the past reflected the qualities that we respect in our soccer players - passion, hard workers, playing as one and enjoying themselves along the way. It showed our uniqueness, while today our players are no different from players from every other country.

Blaming the media is wrong, the team have an image problem. One player who reflects the old values that engaged the country is Richard Dunne and outside of that there are not many. He is universally respected in Ireland while many of the other players are not. Hopefully if we qualify for the Euros the team can mend its image and truly leave its mark in Europe.

In this post of course I am referring to Euro 88!

[osarusan]

Let's get a bit of perspective here:

June 1990:

Played muck in a muck game against England. Drew.
Played even worse in an even worse game against Egypt. Drew.
Played OK against Holland, took advantage of a goalkeeping goof. Drew.
Played OK against Romania and barely mustered an effort on goal. Drew 0-0.
Played OK against Italy, had one effort on goal, a Quinn header saved by Zenga.

5 games. 4 draws and a defeat.

Result? National adulation, open top bus rides, full Phoenix park, etc. Not to mention 17 years of economic growth and a property boom.

21 years later.

Played 10, won 6, drawn 3, lost one. 21 points.

Result? Derision.

I don't think it's really fair to compare our record in qualification this time around with our performances at the finals back then.

I think most people's criticism of the team is not that we play conservatively, but that we play pretty conservatively against teams we needn't be afraid of. If we were drawn against England and the Dutch in the Euros next year (with, say Montenegro taking the place of Egypt), I don't think people would be too critical of Trap's tactics in those games.

[Noelys Guitar]

The difference between now and then was it seemed inconceivable that we could ever beat England, particularly in our first game at a major championship. No one in Ireland felt we could do it. It helped our national self-confidence and due to the fact that we beat England of all teams, our style of play wasn't seen as an issue, in fact, it showed a uniqueness that we were happy to go along with. The difference between now and then is twofold. Route One Football, while not attractive was entertaining and intimidated most other teams, while today our style is still unattractive, but also not entertaining. The last time I felt we played with passion, purpose and style was the infamous game in Paris. I felt proud, engaged and entertained.

The players today lack the relationship that existed in the past. They players of the past reflected the qualities that we respect in our soccer players - passion, hard workers, playing as one and enjoying themselves along the way. It showed our uniqueness, while today our players are no different from players from every other country.

Blaming the media is wrong, the team have an image problem. One player who reflects the old values that engaged the country is Richard Dunne and outside of that there are not many. He is universally respected in Ireland while many of the other players are not. Hopefully if we qualify for the Euros the team can mend its image and truly leave its mark in Europe.

In this post of course I am referring to Euro 88!

I was at the game and most of the fans thought we would win. The way the game panned out England had by far the better chances (and missed them). We had been on an unbelievable run of victories in friendly games before the England game. So it was not surprise to me (or I'm sure many other fans) when we did win. If we do qualify for 2012( and I believe we will) I think we might actually get to the semi's this time at least. A couple of players stepping up like McCarthy and Mayler could change the entire picture for this team.

[boovidge]

I was at the game and most of the fans thought we would win. The way the game panned out England had by far the better chances (and missed them). We had been on an unbelievable run of victories in friendly games before the England game. So it was not surprise to me (or I'm sure many other fans) when we did win. If we do qualify for 2012( and I believe we will) I think we might actually get to the semi's this time at least. A couple of players stepping up like McCarthy and Mayler could change the entire picture for this team.

Woah, steady on! If the boys manage to beat Estonia, anything out of the group stages in the summer is a massive bonus.

[bennocelt]

Were we going "of my God, we don't play pretty football"? England and Egypt were shyte, Romania had Hagi and that was it.

Just saying that wc were happy to accept results over style at least once in the past.

That's wrong, sure that world cup was dire but a lot of those teams could match up to today's sides - maybe not as attacking forces but definitely in the art of defending. Id take that England team over today's. What about Holland, they were pretty good. Yeah Jacks team played dire stuff but then so did must teams back then.
Please enlighten me what great team we have beaten in the last few years?

[mypost]

I don't think it's really fair to compare our record in qualification this time around with our performances at the finals back then.

I think most people's criticism of the team is not that we play conservatively, but that we play pretty conservatively against teams we needn't be afraid of. If we were drawn against England and the Dutch in the Euros next year (with, say Montenegro taking the place of Egypt), I don't think people would be too critical of Trap's tactics in those games.

Once we get the results, it doesn't matter.

We played this way under Jack, and under Kerr. Not so much under Mick, yet took 6 years to crack the egg. Under Staunton, we played like apprentices.

Trap told us what he thinks of results v performances. Whilst some of the games haven't been the most exciting to watch, the results are/were invaluable. Those results led to yesterday's seeding and good draw. We could be passing the ball around a bit, then lose a group to Greece and get Turkey, as someone else did.