Is booing a poor performance justified?

[DannyInvincible]

There was a resounding chorus of boos at the end of the game tonight, but was it justified? Indeed, the performance was well below par and Trap's tactics are incredibly dull, bordering on hopeless now bar a miracle in Moscow or results going our way, but I still don't think it's right to boo our players. Whatever about Trap's tactical decisions with the squad he has available to him, it's not like anyone is going out to try and throw the game. For me, it's something straight out of British tabloid culture and it was as depressing to hear as tonight's performance was to see. I don't see what purpose it serves. It registers discontent, sure, but is that constructive in any way? Maybe it is, I dunno - booers, take the stand - but I just think it's sad when I hear our own fans booing our own team.

[BonnieShels]

In short. I was surrounded tonight by a crescendo of boos which I.could not really understand the justification to be honest.
It was not the best performance. But not the worst.
I'm glad we are now a nation disappointed at a nil-all. But nothing justified what those players got tonight. And those there tonight should know better.
The Anglification of our society sickens me anyway... see the chorus if Tim Lovejoy "TAXIS" you hear at LOI games or in pubs.

[boovidge]

I didn't boo because I support the players and want them to go to Russia feeling that the country is behind them. They know they didn't perform to their best tonight.

I'd much rather boo the irritating people next to me that constantly got up to get snacks and drinks (must have been 3 or 4 times each half) and spent the rest of the game doing Jedward impressions. They booed the players at the end of course :rolleyes:

[TheBoss]

A true supporter/follower never boos their team, you sing for them, you cheer for them, you chant for them. They are your team, you have to give them the best encouragement as a fan to inspire them. A real fan of the game does not boo his side.

[Murfinator]

At the end of the day the players are there to entertain the folks who paid money to watch that, be it through the result or performance. What'll hurt the players more is for a crunch qualifier they couldn't get a capacity crowd while meaningless rugby warm ups a couple of weeks ago could.

[Murfinator]

A true supporter/follower never boos their team, you sing for them, you cheer for them, you chant for them. They are your team, you have to give them the best encouragement as a fan to inspire them. A real fan of the game does not boo his side.

If displeasure was never voiced we'd still be managed by Stan.

[boovidge]

At the end of the day the players are there to entertain the folks who paid money to watch that, be it through the result or performance. What'll hurt the players more is for a crunch qualifier they couldn't get a capacity crowd while meaningless rugby warm ups a couple of weeks ago could.

Yea that is shocking. Especially as Ireland have already played those teams about 17 times in the last year anyway and probably will do so again at the "World" Cup

[TheBoss]

If displeasure was never voiced we'd still be managed by Stan.

Me personally do not care who the manager is, its the players that we fans can help to make a difference, thats why we turn up and sing our hearts out, its not winning, drawing or losing but for the pride that you have for your country. We all know whoever is the manager of Ireland will never win a tournament, so it makes no difference to me, all I want to do is show my pride for my country and help to encourage the players to give their best, if we win/draw/lose games with the players being motivated by all us fans, then we can all be happy that we all did our best. If one goes to a match, only small numbers seem to show the passion, the majority of the crowd sit back, wait for something to happen and moan when things do not go right, why go to match to be stressed out by every single pass, corner, throw, shot etc, free yourself and support your team.

[Murfinator]

Well being a supporter isn't all singing and cheering. Losing and not qualifying for major tournaments hurts, disappoints and frustrates fans. Being as upset in a failure as the players is part of the passion of being a fan. The booing in question today wasn't booing players off the pitch, it was a brief booing at the final whistle to indicate they weren't satisfied with the match outcome, thats all.

Is it disheartening for players? It shouldn't be being the professionals and men they are, it should spur them on to get a result on tuesday that'll put a smile back on the faces of fans that they let down tonight.

[amaccann]

Hmm, I dunno, I don't respect or appreciate this idea that if you don't show 100%, unquestioning, never-bending support for the team, you're not a true supporter. An easy way to dismiss criticism & it's a bit of a cheap-shot aimed at those of us who might waiver in their following for the national side against this tide of banal results. People such as myself who see this type of football as being very much against the notions and philosophies that Ireland always played with. Sure we're no world beaters, but we used to play with passion and honesty. Where was either tonight?

By anyone's estimation that was an anaemic performance; yes perhaps these results will eventually get us to the finals & thus Trap gets vindication. But what if they don't? These tactics have already failed in one qualifying tournament (no matter how close we came to getting on the plane to South Africa).

I don't condone people booing the players - they're as much victims here as anyone else - it can feel like you're kicking a best friend while he's down on the ground; but lordy - what else can we do as supporters if we're a bit po'ed with what we just witnessed? Sure we can stop handing over the (frankly) scandalous fees for tickets, but that's about it - there's simply the expectation that the Aviva will keep getting supporters, no matter what cr*p is served up. Not showing up? Big deal, that's not much of a frontline reaction, and would just prove what a passive race we are.

We may not have the world-class players anymore, but people like Kevin Kilbane prove that you don't always need the raw technical skills to play above and beyond your limitations. Heck our neighbours north of the border prove this consistently. Trappatoni often gives the impression that he doesn't see this passion, and tries to compensate for our lack of skill with nullifying football, rather than encourage & push us beyond our own limits. It's a shame because the end result is fairly turgid football, no matter how many tournaments we might qualify for.

[p2011]

10 years ago, I used to think there was a difference between Irish supporters and English supporters.... we didn't boo our teams, we didn't make life hell for players who might have missed a penalty in a shoot-off (e.g. against Spain in 02), and we didn't tear foreign cities asunder and make the locals quake in their boots. Sad that we've now gone one step in the wrong direction.

The atmosphere at the Aviva was terrible tonight, and fair play to the Slovaks for making most of the noise. The Irish 'fans' around me seemed more interested in going for a hot dog 30 or 55 minutes into the game (why?), or shouting 'offside' from throw-ins or standing up to leave after 91 minutes when there was still a chance of a late winner.

So Whelan and Andrews are not Xavi and Iniesta, so what, at least they are Irish and bust a gut every time for us. Let's get behind the team. 0-0 against a slick Central European side who were at the last World Cup and play decent football when given a chance. Glass half full, methinks.

We're still in it. We are now ahead of Slovakia on direct comparison given the away goal in Zilina - yes, it works like a European tie with away goals, 1-1 away 0-0 at home means you win - so we just need to match their next result against Russia to come second (even if we lose v Russia and they lose v Russia). We are also creeping up the table of best 2nd placers (scroll down to the end of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2012_qualifying and Norway and Sweden will likely drop points in their next few games.

[SwanVsDalton]

Booing your own players is imbecilic imo. Never justified. And I say that as something who was very dissatisfied with tonight's performance.

[Charlie Darwin]

The boos aren't for lack of effort, it's because we know they're capable of so much better than they delivered. I'm sure the players know that better than anyone though.

[Spudulika]

"Fans" will boo their own team, supporters will at least applaud them politely. This sky league crap has shown how we do more than just ape the motherland. I was ashamed with the "fans" last night as they reminded me of the morons I deal with or witness on a weekly basis here. I don't buy this - we're playing bad so boo them nonsense. "Fans" believe they have a right to be entertained or "get their moneys worth", fcuk off to the cinema and try it, nice and comfy seats, popcorn and treats. Leave sports and sports supporters alone.

[DannyInvincible]

At the end of the day the players are there to entertain the folks who paid money to watch that, be it through the result or performance. What'll hurt the players more is for a crunch qualifier they couldn't get a capacity crowd while meaningless rugby warm ups a couple of weeks ago could.

Well, they're more there to try and win games than anything - if people want pure entertainment, they can watch freestyle football videos on YouTube - but I agree in so far as I was hoping three points could have stolen some of the limelight back from the Irish public's current infatuation with rugby. Even if the rugby side come home "early" from New Zealand later this month, it doesn't appear football will be a beneficiary of any spare public goodwill up for grabs any time soon now unless we can storm to a miraculous victory in Moscow and top this group.


If displeasure was never voiced we'd still be managed by Stan.

If displeasure was never voiced we might never have had to hire Stan in the first place. :p

I don't know though. Stan's results were unacceptable. Surely the FAI didn't need fans booing performances to indicate that to them?


If one goes to a match, only small numbers seem to show the passion, the majority of the crowd sit back, wait for something to happen and moan when things do not go right, why go to match to be stressed out by every single pass, corner, throw, shot etc, free yourself and support your team.

Ronnie Whelan was saying something about the players having to give the fans something to shout about, but, to be honest, if you're at a football game and you need a cue to get yourself involved, you're at the wrong event.


Hmm, I dunno, I don't respect or appreciate this idea that if you don't show 100%, unquestioning, never-bending support for the team, you're not a true supporter. An easy way to dismiss criticism & it's a bit of a cheap-shot aimed at those of us who might waiver in their following for the national side against this tide of banal results. People such as myself who see this type of football as being very much against the notions and philosophies that Ireland always played with. Sure we're no world beaters, but we used to play with passion and honesty. Where was either tonight?

Don't necessarily confuse my disapproval of booing for an advocation of blind support or cultural passivity. I'm fully prepared to acknowledge we were diabolical; I'm just not convinced that booing the players is the most appropriate or constructive response to that. What is, I'm not sure, but the players know well themselves they performed poorly. As do the FAI. They lose out too from failure to qualify. Does getting on the players' backs help pressure them into better performances? I dunno really. The natural human response to that from anyone would be one of resentment and feelings of under-appreciation rather than motivation surely?

[Fixer82]

No. It's not acceptable. It is only acceptable if the team don't care and don't make an effort.
Regardless of our poor performance ya can't say the lads didn't try.
We didn't play well but we are far from out of this group.
We can't play brilliant in every game and God knows under Charlton we had a couple of stinkers (Spain in Lansdowne '93) but we didn't boo our team. This is a new phenomenon that has only come into Irish soccer games, as far as I can see, since the World Cup 2002.
People who booed last night are morons and I'd be surprised if many of them would be the same lads that save their money and go abroad and cheer the lads on in places like Moscow and Tblisi.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yes, totally.
When they were largely sh*te, they need to be told in no uncertain terms...
It's not as if they're not praised if they do well.

[osarusan]

A true supporter/follower never boos their team.


Booing your own players is imbecilic imo



People who booed last night are morons.

I think all of this is very harsh.

People express frustration in different ways. For me, it's an inward smouldering rage that leaves me unwilling to talk to anybody, but for others, after a performance (by no means the first) in which the team showed almost a complete absence of creativity and cohesion, the desire to send a message to those players (and in my opinion, more importantly, to the manager) is overwhelming.

I see nothing wrong with the booing - I look at it as an expression of frustration and disappointment in an abject performance in a crucial qualifier. Is it constructive - no, but that doesn't make it wrong.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I personally probably wouldn't have but I reserve the right to and defend the right of anyone else to boo if it lets them get frustration off their chest and let the managment know there's frustration out there.

If that makes me one of the loathed "I paid good money for this" brigade fine.

Some naive ones maybe do but I don't think all those people just turn up and expect us to win playing champagne football -but they do have a reasonable expectation we'll compete.

[elroy]

I don't like the booing one bit. In fairness I thought it was only for a few seconds followed by applause in sending them off the pitch.

What was the attendance last night?? Around 35k? With more capacity you are always going to get a few day trippers who are taking a break from their real love, the EPL.

As for people getting up and down for food during the game, head wreck. Whatever about just before ht but numerous times during the game. There was me a nervous wreck and these ppl popping in and out for burgers.

[Murfinator]

I don't like the booing one bit. In fairness I thought it was only for a few seconds followed by applause in sending them off the pitch.


It was which I think sends out the message of "Look lads tonight wasn't good enough and we're disappointed but we're totally behind you so give em hell on tuesday". Which is completely fine in my books.

[mypost]

Yes, totally.
When they were largely sh*te, they need to be told in no uncertain terms...
It's not as if they're not praised if they do well.

Load of rubbish.

If Dunne's header in injury time had gone in, the players would have been given a standing ovation at the final whistle. Last night we achieved two things. 6 clean sheets in a row, and taking advantage of the result in Slovakia, to give us the head-to-head record over them. Another clean sheet in Moscow, and they'll be flavour of the month again.

But never mind that, you continue to boo.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No chance, we know rubbish when we see it.
As should you being a Shams man.
;)

[DannyInvincible]

Another clean sheet in Moscow, and they'll be flavour of the month again.

Whatever about possible shifts in perception of the vacillating mob, I don't think we can afford go into Moscow thinking that just a clean sheet will suffice, no matter how impressive such a result might be. We don't need impressive in Moscow now; we need miraculous. Unless we win, our fate is out of our own hands - settling for that surely isn't an option - whilst it would also open up the very real and heart-breaking possibility of us finishing third on the same number of overall points as Slovakia and Russia.

[mypost]

Anything can happen in the last 3 games, apart from the Andorra wins. Last night's results weren't decisive, and next week's won't be either. the other two still have to play each other as well, they can't both win it, so a point for us in Moscow and a win in Andorra would re-jig the group again.

I think asking for a win in Moscow is too optimistic. Even the best sides struggle there, so a point will do me.

[Charlie Darwin]

Even the best sides struggle there, so a point will do me.
On the other hand, a team no better than us won there.

[DannyInvincible]

Anything can happen in the last 3 games, apart from the Andorra wins. Last night's results weren't decisive, and next week's won't be either. the other two still have to play each other as well, they can't both win it, so a point for us in Moscow and a win in Andorra would re-jig the group again.

I think asking for a win in Moscow is too optimistic. Even the best sides struggle there, so a point will do me.

Of course anything can happen but some things are more likely to happen than others. A point in Moscow allows for us to achieve a maximum of 21 points; at least that one thing would be certain. Realistically, that would allow us, at best and hoping other results went in our favour, a second place finish. We have to assume that we'll pick up 6 in our final two fixtures for obvious reasons.

There's a minuscule chance of winning the group with 21 points but I don't know if it's worth entertaining as it would involve one of or both Slovakia and Russia dropping points in their head-to-head game with any winner from that fixture dropping points in another game on top of that. If Russia and Slovakia draw that fixture, both will also have to drop further points if we're to be certain of finishing above third place. It's safe to assume that Russia will be beating Andorra. If Russia draw with us, lose to Slovakia and beat Andorra, they'll finish on 20. So the only realistic way we can finish above Russia if we draw in Moscow is by them losing to Slovakia. If Slovakia beat Russia but draw against either Armenia or Macedonia whilst winning whichever fixture between those two that they don't draw, they'll finish on 21 and we'd pip them to first position on head-to-head results. I'd rather not rely on those two dropping points though.

Edit: I think I've edited that about 5 times to get it all right, but my head still hurts when I read through it. How did it ever come to this?

[mypost]

So basically, it's still all ifs, buts, and maybes.

Last night's results have given the Russians a slight advantage, but they still have to face their main rivals before winning against Andorra. Slovakia have the hardest run-in of the three. I wouldn't want to have to go to Skopje needing a result. We did before, and failed. They only just managed to beat them at home ffs.

Moscow is, and always has been a fortress. I believe we've never got as much as a draw in Russia before, so I'll take a point, knowing that our rivals have the tougher last week to come. There's still plenty of points to be won and lost in the group.

[ped_ped]

Hmm . . .


Is booing a poor performance justified?

No.

[/thread]

[shakermaker1982]

Mypost - we only scraped past Macedonia at home! Slovakia can at least say they've won away in Moscow. If they can grind out a win there then I'm sure their players will be confident of picking up 3 points in Skopje.

[mypost]

Mypost - we only scraped past Macedonia at home! Slovakia can at least say they've won away in Moscow.

Everyone has only scraped past Macedonia. Slovakia's result in Moscow, puts our results against them in perspective. But it won't stop the hacks tearing into the team.

[AlaskaFox]

Of course anything can happen but some things are more likely to happen than others. A point in Moscow allows for us to achieve a maximum of 21 points; at least that one thing would be certain. Realistically, that would allow us, at best and hoping other results went in our favour, a second place finish. We have to assume that we'll pick up 6 in our final two fixtures for obvious reasons.

There's a minuscule chance of winning the group with 21 points but I don't know if it's worth entertaining as it would involve one of or both Slovakia and Russia dropping points in their head-to-head game with any winner from that fixture dropping points in another game on top of that. If Russia and Slovakia draw that fixture, both will also have to drop further points if we're to be certain of finishing above third place. It's safe to assume that Russia will be beating Andorra. If Russia draw with us, lose to Slovakia and beat Andorra, they'll finish on 20. So the only realistic way we can finish above Russia if we draw in Moscow is by them losing to Slovakia. If Slovakia beat Russia but draw against either Armenia or Macedonia whilst winning whichever fixture between those two that they don't draw, they'll finish on 21 and we'd pip them to first position on head-to-head results. I'd rather not rely on those two dropping points though.

Edit: I think I've edited that about 5 times to get it all right, but my head still hurts when I read through it. How did it ever come to this?

This make it somewhat easier for you Danny?
http://greenscene.me/2011/09/euro-2012-group-b-qualifying-permutations/

[Spudulika]

Slovakia put 10 men behind the ball and outmuscled an awful Russian team. Home fans were leaving as early as the 75th minute - and were turned back by police!

[OwlsFan]

Why did I know there would be a thread started about booing. I thought it would be by An Ceannaire though.

If the players swanned around for 90 minutes and put no effort in, I'd boo. But in all my years of following football, I've never seen that happen. As someone said to me before the game, there are two classes of people who go to a game, supporters and spectators. The latter are disappearing as is evident by the gaps in the ground and they get their kicks now watching it on TV and listening to the RTE panel (bites his lip). There are still some left though who go to a match wanting to be entertained. If they are not entertained, the players are booed. Being spectators they would like a spectacle. They want Ireland to win of course but if not entertained, they feel cheated. They therefore boo.

A supporter is of course someone who supports: a backer, a follower. Their primary purpose is to see their team winning. Entertainment is a bonus. They support the team. They do not boo the team (generally speaking - there are exceptions). The spectacle comes second to the result and even if the result is bad, the team is supported in the hope that the next result is better. Booing your team does not give it confidence.

I was in the West Lower. I didn't hear (sounding like Arsene Wenger) any booing around me but I heard some from the West Upper. It faded quickly. No big deal.

As I said before, the final game against Armenia will be a sell out if it's a crunch game although we can't hide that some of the Irish public has lost interest in the current team. Doesn't bother me. There were 14k at Jack C's first game against Wales I think. What's that quote "Build it and they will come".

A supporter

[DannyInvincible]

Why did I know there would be a thread started about booing. I thought it would be by An Ceannaire though.

That's a low blow right there. :p

[Lionel Ritchie]

Why did I know there would be a thread started about booing. I thought it would be by An Ceannaire though.


Would've had a more Daily Mail thread title if it'd been AC's work -as well as a summation of the "is it time to crack open our skulls and feast upon the goo inside?" variety.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I and many others round me booed.
Only at the end, as it was a deeply mediocre performance.

And we are all supporters!!

[IsMiseSean]

I thought the booing was disgraceful

[BonnieShels]

Upper East and it was all around me. Disgusted.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except in most cases, and especially Trap, it was fully deserved on this occasion.

So what if people do boo, not as if it's unique to just Irish fans...part of human nature.

[BonnieShels]

It's part of English nature.
It's not part of our culture. Never has been.

[Sideline]

Well said OwlsFan. Booing only creates more problems. If you are that easily offended stay at home.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't agree with the booing and would never do it myself. I can see where it came from though, the sheer exasperation of watching a dire performance, void of invention, tempo and basic cohesiveness. I think there's a culture of instant gratfication these days that wasn't there in my fellow old farts' generation. Maybe that's something I'll never get used to, like Facebook.

[Cymro]

This idea of booing as something inherently English is nonsense.

People boo because they are dsappointed at a result or performance. It happens in every country in the world.

Watch a French crowd in the 6 Nations rugby. Failure to utterly destroy the opposition by playing beautiful running rugby is inevitably met by booing from the Paris crowd. Somtimes it's serious, sometimes less so.

I can recall being in Germany for Wales's final Euro 2008 qualifier. Germans had already qualified and we drew 0-0. There were boos at half-time and full-time.

The booing and whistling hardly stops in Eastern Europe.

I honestly don't see how you claim it's some sort of English invention.

[Cymro]

I don't agree with the booing and would never do it myself. I can see where it came from though, the sheer exasperation of watching a dire performance, void of invention, tempo and basic cohesiveness. I think there's a culture of instant gratfication these days that wasn't there in my fellow old farts' generation. Maybe that's something I'll never get used to, like Facebook.

Personally, I boo when I am extremely disappointed at a performance. If the players have given their all and lost to a better team, I will applaud them off the field, but when you are left feeling that the players have only given a half-arsed performance it ****es me off, especially when I have spent the whole match screaming my lungs out supporting the players, and often travelled quite some way to support them.

Also, 'old farts'? Was the tongue perhaps slightly in cheek there? Your username would suggest you're 23. Though I agree about Facebook.

[DannyInvincible]

The '88 is a reference not to his birth, but to what was another glorious moment for Irish football:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okqR2zEIJHY

;)

[Cymro]

Well that told me. Always good to see England lose, though. :p

[ArdeeBhoy]

We know.
And no-one was booing that day...

[Sullivinho]

I've never done it myself, nor would I. But as displays of disappointment and disapproval go...I've seen and heard worse than booing tbh.

[BonnieShels]

This idea of booing as something inherently English is nonsense.

People boo because they are dsappointed at a result or performance. It happens in every country in the world.

Watch a French crowd in the 6 Nations rugby. Failure to utterly destroy the opposition by playing beautiful running rugby is inevitably met by booing from the Paris crowd. Somtimes it's serious, sometimes less so.

I can recall being in Germany for Wales's final Euro 2008 qualifier. Germans had already qualified and we drew 0-0. There were boos at half-time and full-time.

The booing and whistling hardly stops in Eastern Europe.

I honestly don't see how you claim it's some sort of English invention.


It was never inferred that it was an English invention. And that's not what should be taken from what I said.

There has been a cultural shift in Ireland over the past 15 years or so that's more noticeable with younger generations of Irish supporters and not necessarily in soccer alone. Se the booing that Donegal got last week against Dublin. Totally bad form and showed a complete lack of understanding of the game that had just been played.

The overbearing influence of the Angles on our sporting culture has been a contributing influence.
Whilst in the end the performance on Friday was not what we had hoped for it hardly deserved the crescendo it received. I don't condone any sort of that behaviour simply because it is crass and not what should be accepted by "the greatest fans" in the world.

Don't get me wrong I was effing and blinding and cursing some of that second-half to high heaven but I never even considered booing the team off the pitch.