Russia v Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 6th September 2011 - Euro 2012 Qualifier

[Noelys Guitar]

As desperately disappointed as I am tonight (been here before 0-0 home draw v Scotland under Jack. Stapleton missed last minute sitter. Seemed like same old same old.). I can see us winning on Tuesday. You will see a fitter McGeady and Doyle. Hopefully a fully fit Long. And much as it is hard to believe on the evidence of tonight I genuinely believe ourselves and Slovakia are the best two teams in the group. I watched the Russians again yesterday and for me they lack a spine. Yet if they had of played us yesterday they would have won 3 or 4 nil this time. But we will be a completely different propostition on Tuesday. I'm sure of that. All we need to do is take our chances this time.

[Bungle]

I have always felt that we are a better away team than home team. We are simply awful at home, while away we play to our strengths and we look a very decent and professional outfit.

I think we could frustrate the life out of Russia and we could nick a goal near the end. Doyler was terrible tonight and his lack of sharpness meant that our limitations in the centre of midfield were even more glaring. If he is his usual self, then we will be much more dangerous. Having Long around the place could be massive towards the end of the game.

I like Keith Andrews as a man. He has always given 100% for the shirt and seems like a good lad. However, he simply has to be replaced by James McCarthy. McCarthy is the future of the Irish midfield and even though he hasn't started the season well, he is an outstanding young player.

[DannyInvincible]

Tuesday is a massive, massive game now. It's like a cup final. Win it and we can start packing our bags for Polkraine. I can only hope we give it a real go because I think it's too risky to settle for a draw and hope other results work in our favour. In that sense, I think we should approach it as if we have nothing to lose. Looking at it from this perspective actually gives me a certain degree of optimism and I'm definitely looking forward to the challenge. We should have a much better idea whether or not we'll be there next summer by Tuesday evening.

[Colbert Report]

I hope I'm wrong but I think we'll be sliced up in the middle of the park. Even Slovakia were passing right through our central midfield tonight, I think we'll get hammered on Tuesday. Four nil Russia.

[Murfinator]

Backs to the wall, underdogs, away from home, hostile ground? Has a big Irish performance written all over it.

Of course like every other game against anyone anyways decent we'll draw.

[Spudulika]

Put it this way. Russia are sh!te. They have a few decent players but a few very good players, however those very good players won't get picked because a) they don't play abroad or for 1 of 2 clubs in Russia, b) they are not managed by 1 of 3 agencies, c) the coach makes sure he keeps his job by picking who he's told.

Ireland had the beating of Russia last year and this. Not winning will be a failure.

[Colbert Report]

The last time we lost a competitive match away from home was the night Stephen Hunt got sent off and the Czechs beat us 1-0. Almost exactly four years ago.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I hope I'm wrong but I think we'll be sliced up in the middle of the park. Even Slovakia were passing right through our central midfield tonight, I think we'll get hammered on Tuesday. Four nil Russia.

Sadly I'm inclined to agree. Can't see where all the optimism elsewhere comes from -though I acknowledge there's no point in being defeatist.
I'm afraid I think Russia are going to hand us back our asses.
The two goals we got against them in Dublin merely muddied the waters and flattered to decieve. They spanked us and based on available evidence they'll spank us again.

[Irish_Praha]

Not looking good for us. Again we have only taken 2 points from a possible 9 against our two main rivals in the group and if we draw on Tuesday (which I expect) it will only be 3 points from a possible 12.
You simply can't win a group with those stats.
I'm still not giving up hope though and perhaps they will surprise us all and get a win on Tuesday.

[geysir]

I'd say a point in Russia puts us favourites to finish 2nd in the group - assuming we win the 2 other games.
Russia would still have to at least draw with Slovakia in the last game, to ensure top spot. And the Slovaks will also have it very tough to win in Macedonia.

[brine3]

Macedonia are already out of the running, so not sure how motivated they'll be. Well, they were very motivated back in 1999, but that's because they were helping their Balkan brothers qualify ahead of us.

[geysir]

Macedonia were well motivated in Moscow, they have a new manager and will want to take some scalp in their campaign.

[geysir]

Are Russian women really so sweet and pretty?

[AlaskaFox]

1-0 Ireland. Simon Cox to score off the bench.

I refuse to give up hope.

[OwenGoal]

SSN reporting Long is out of Russia game. No word on replacements.

[Predator]

If we're to get anything out of this game, the midfield has to be better. If they walk through the midfield the way Slovakia often did last night, we're in trouble.

[geysir]

The 2 of them need a double sized cocktail of Giles' moral courage.

[Noelys Guitar]

I believe we are going to have to score early on Tuesday to win the game. By early I mean in the first 25 mins. Doyle, Keane or whoever will have to take that first real chance we get. Macedonia had their chances yesterday and never took them. Wales played Russia off the park (in Russia) a few years back for about 70 mins but again never put away their chances. Slovakia took their one chance and held out for the win. For me last night Doyle was the biggest disappointment. The player himself said today he is fully fit and I believe him. He was excellent against Fulham for Wolves. Looked fine against Aston Villa. Sure to play much better against Russia and could well be our match winner. I'm predicting 2-1. We score first. They equalise then we get a second.

[shakermaker1982]

We need favours from other nations in the group if we don't win on Tuesday by the looks of things.....christ.

EDIT
If we all end up on 21 does it go on GD? That's ok then

[shakermaker1982]

NG we never take our chances when it really matters. Somebody fluffs their lines & it's normally in injury time!

[DannyInvincible]

We need favours from other nations in the group if we don't win on Tuesday by the looks of things.....christ.

EDIT
If we all end up on 21 does it go on GD? That's ok then

No, we'd finish third in that case as the our head-to-head results are the worst of the three. If we were to finish level with just Slovakia, however, we'd finish above them as our head-to-head record against them alone is superior.

[geysir]

We need favours from other nations in the group if we don't win on Tuesday by the looks of things.....christ.

EDIT
If we all end up on 21 does it go on GD? That's ok then
No, we're royally buggered if there is 3 way tie.

[mark12345]

When on God's green earth is the light bulb going to go off for Trap to realize that Robbie Keane simply has to be played in midfield - top of the diamond, behind the front two.

Put Doyle and Long (or Cox if he's injured) up front with Robbie receiving the ball in midfield, and producing a feint here or there to make things happen for them. Robbie didn't do much last night but he did show that he had the composure to receive a pass and find an open lane in the Slovak defence. And all of this was done in a midfield position (he was supposed to be a striker but had to drop back to get the ball).

Everyone and his mother agrees that we need a presence in midfield, so why not take the easy option in Robbie. Also I am slightly disappointed that Trap dropped Walters. We badly needed a big man up front last night, didn't we? If Walters had have been there in the second half we would have had a target man. As much as we think we can play it on the floor we still prefer to hoof it long to the target man.

Big game for Ireland on Tuesday, even bigger for Trap.

[Charlie Darwin]

Trap talked about playing Robbie in the Totti role before his first game in charge. Strangely, the only time he actually tried it was against Italy away after Folan came on.

[Murfinator]

Robbies not in the game for the bulk of the time since we never have the ball or any possession to feed him with. It does seem illogical to me to play a 4-4-2 when a) a long ball to a target man isn't an option and b) you don't have much possession. It just leaves 2 players isolated and out of the game for much of it. I wouldn't even object to a 4-6-0 and attacking from deep, our formation as it is just doesn't make sense with what we have.

We got overrun playing that system against Russia before so it'll be interesting to see what Trap has learned from that.

[Noelys Guitar]

Trap latest from the Observer.
Trapattoni will not alter his tactics at the Luzhniki Stadium, where the artificial pitch will present its own problems, and he believes his team are merely one converted chance from reinvigorating their campaign.

Shane Long will miss the qualifier because of a calf injury, meaning that Trapattoni will chose between Kevin Doyle, who laboured against Slovakia, and Simon Cox, who replaced him after 64 minutes, for the attacking berth alongside Robbie Keane. Trapattoni admitted that he might have played five in midfield had the team beaten Slovakia but the imperative is to carry the fight to Russia.

"If we create the same opportunities [in Moscow], it's vital that we take them," Trapattoni said. "I would have been more disappointed against Slovakia if we had not created chances but now, we need to score. Our defence played well. Six successive clean sheets [a national record] is good for our growth and mentality. But we will look to win against Russia."

Trapattoni added: "Same approach, same approach. This group is not like Manchester United versus Arsenal, with 8-2 scorelines. The games are 1-0, 2-1 … very close. No panic. There might be one day of disappointment after Slovakia, but then the confidence comes back."

Trapattoni suggested that the Leeds United centre-half Darren O'Dea would deputise for the suspended Sean St Ledger as his players considered the prospect of the Luzhniki's surface.

"I do think it's an unfair advantage," said the goalkeeper Shay Given. "They're the only team in Europe who play on a plastic pitch.

So O'Dea for St Ledger and possibly Cox and Keane up front rather than Doyle and Keane.

[holidaysong]

"They're the only team in Europe who play on a plastic pitch

Well that's not true. :cool:

[Colbert Report]

When on God's green earth is the light bulb going to go off for Trap to realize that Robbie Keane simply has to be played in midfield - top of the diamond, behind the front two.

Put Doyle and Long (or Cox if he's injured) up front with Robbie receiving the ball in midfield, and producing a feint here or there to make things happen for them. Robbie didn't do much last night but he did show that he had the composure to receive a pass and find an open lane in the Slovak defence. And all of this was done in a midfield position (he was supposed to be a striker but had to drop back to get the ball).

Everyone and his mother agrees that we need a presence in midfield, so why not take the easy option in Robbie. Also I am slightly disappointed that Trap dropped Walters. We badly needed a big man up front last night, didn't we? If Walters had have been there in the second half we would have had a target man. As much as we think we can play it on the floor we still prefer to hoof it long to the target man.

Big game for Ireland on Tuesday, even bigger for Trap.

I've watched Robbie Keane play for years and I think his best position is at the top of the diamond, and in behind the front two as well. However, this formation would get us eaten alive against the likes of Russia. We're likely to get sliced and diced with two holding midfielders right in front of the back four. How do you think we'd fare with only one there?

[Spudulika]

The only way to play Russia is man on man. Kick Arshavin up in the air a couple of times and he'll go very quiet. Hammer into the midfield and lift Kerzhakov out of it. They have no fight or bottle and without Arshavin no invention. The single biggest mistake made in Dublin was standing back and admiring their work. A crap team can look good if you don't put a boot in. If Ireland get stuck in, keep the Russians quiet for 30minutes, then suddenly the crowd will turn and the home players crumble. We have the man power, we have the ability, it's down to the players, not just the manager. The players showed how ingrained in the sky league way of thinking they are - boot it long and hard. By contrast (and despite not being near match fit) McGeady tried to move with the ball even when winning it in a tackle or contest. We are better than Russia, we just have to play like it.

[paul_oshea]

Thinking about it keane has scored some very important goals for us.but in the same instance he has missed at least double that amount in what we needed.

[Paddy Garcia]

I don't like to think where we would be without him - even now!

[geysir]

A crap team can look good if you don't put a boot in.
Russia are far from being a crap team. They are not consistently a good team but quite capable of coming good enough.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd rate them as not as good as the French team we played brilliantly against in Paris. I'm not saying the game is ripe for the taking, but it's definitely winnable if we play to our very best and things go our way.

[DannyInvincible]

Interestingly, this (http://www.castrolfootball.com/calculators/) site gives us a 73.6% chance of qualifying at this stage.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/GroupCalculator_med_7ebfb70d5a4b6b3c1d1fa0408ff0de 27.png

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/GroupCalculatorRUS_med_bc66a1ca1c8a28c00faa3e789cf 8e482.png

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/GroupCalculatorSVK_med_1ae2514c17051d1827bcc32543e bd09c.png

I'd have thought Slovakia's prospects were a fair bit brighter than 6.6%. For the game on Tuesday though, just having a look at William Hill Online and they have us at 4/1 to win, Russia at 8/13 to win and a draw at 23/10. Betfair has us at 9/2, Russia at 4/5 and a draw at 13/5.

According to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2012_qualifying#Attendances), Russia's highest attendance in the group so far was 28,000. I was watching the Macedonia game and the stadium was about a third full. Will it be the same for our game or might the game attract a near-capacity crowd?

Some other surprising ones in that list; Spain's highest attendance so far has been 16,800 and Italy's has been 21,151, although Spain appear to be playing all their home games at relatively minor stadiums in smaller cities around Spain like Granada, Salamanca, Logroño and Alicante. I think the Italian national team regularly draws poor crowds. Why is that?

[shakermaker1982]

I think we'd be ok if we put an extra body in midfield for the first hour. However 4-4-2 fills me dread when we play technically proficient teams who play 4-5-1 or 4-3-3. We were cut to pieces against Russia in Dublin. Whelan & Andrews will be chasing shadows again I fear unless they both somehow morph into Roy Keane for 90 minutes. Lumping balls to Keane because Whelan & Andrews won't show for the ball in midfield is not gonna win the day. Throw McCarthy into the deep end (we have nobody else to be fair because of injuries) and let us keep the ball in a patient manner, Whelan & Andrews should then get a bit of confidence. Sacrifice Keane & bring him on for the last 20 if it's still scoreless.

PS nightmare trying to type on a bloody phone!

[Spudulika]

Russia are far from being a crap team. They are not consistently a good team but quite capable of coming good enough.

Crap might be a bit strong, poor is probably a better reflection. Apart from the main player who commands and rules the roost (like Pavlyuchenko he's being groomed for a long career in public service) Arshavin, the Russian squad is without at least 4 players from the domestic league who should be there by merit and ability but, I'm harking on about this because it's the truth, won't get a look in because they don't play for 1 of 2 Russian clubs, don't have the right agent, and they don't fit in with the plan as laid out by the Gazprom boys. There is only one (current) half decent goalgetter in the side and he's not really on form, they have no inventiveness if Arshavin is taken care of, they have a poor defence and even poorer goalkeeper. Ireland can win, they just have to act like winners.

[geysir]

About the only time I was somewhat reassured by odds or stats, was in the early morning (waking up after I dreamt Iran scored) of the return leg against Iran, I checked online and saw we were 1/8 to go through.

[Spudulika]

DannyI - one part of the stadium will be closed for the Ireland match, reducing the capacity down to about 60,000. A further 10,000 spaces will be boxed off for security purposes. One great thing the tv does here is maximise the ground - RTE are you watching! - they position their cameras to ensure that shots are mostly filled with advertising and faces. Hangover from Commie times I always reckoned!

On the ticket sales front - kassir.ru apparently have sold somewhere in excess of 25,000 tickets (according to the Saturday morning football show on Sport 2). Should be a bumper crowd of up around 40-50,000. 700 fans travelling officially.

[tetsujin1979]

Just like in Animal Farm where the food barrels were always filled with rubbish, but topped with the finest farmyard produce so visitors assumed the farm was doing well

[DannyInvincible]

Trap latest from the Observer.
Trapattoni will not alter his tactics at the Luzhniki Stadium, where the artificial pitch will present its own problems, and he believes his team are merely one converted chance from reinvigorating their campaign.

Shane Long will miss the qualifier because of a calf injury, meaning that Trapattoni will chose between Kevin Doyle, who laboured against Slovakia, and Simon Cox, who replaced him after 64 minutes, for the attacking berth alongside Robbie Keane. Trapattoni admitted that he might have played five in midfield had the team beaten Slovakia but the imperative is to carry the fight to Russia.

"If we create the same opportunities [in Moscow], it's vital that we take them," Trapattoni said. "I would have been more disappointed against Slovakia if we had not created chances but now, we need to score. Our defence played well. Six successive clean sheets [a national record] is good for our growth and mentality. But we will look to win against Russia."

Trapattoni added: "Same approach, same approach. This group is not like Manchester United versus Arsenal, with 8-2 scorelines. The games are 1-0, 2-1 … very close. No panic. There might be one day of disappointment after Slovakia, but then the confidence comes back."

Trapattoni suggested that the Leeds United centre-half Darren O'Dea would deputise for the suspended Sean St Ledger as his players considered the prospect of the Luzhniki's surface.

"I do think it's an unfair advantage," said the goalkeeper Shay Given. "They're the only team in Europe who play on a plastic pitch.

So O'Dea for St Ledger and possibly Cox and Keane up front rather than Doyle and Keane.

I'd rather the experience of O'Shea in the centre with Dunne. Put Foley or Kelly on the right. Our defence will have a lot of work to do if our plan is to inexplicably (?) go with the same approach that saw us dominated by Slovakia on Friday and down by three goals after 50 minutes to Russia 11 months ago. The prospect of O'Dea in there worries me. It's not really as if that Russian game was close either. We pulled two back - one of them a penalty - after they took the foot off the peddle completely.

[BonnieShels]

I'd rather the experience of O'Shea in the centre with Dunne. Put Foley or Kelly on the right. Our defence will have a lot of work to do if our plan is to inexplicably (?) go with the same approach that saw us dominated by Slovakia on Friday and down by three goals after 50 minutes to Russia 11 months ago. The prospect of O'Dea in there worries me. It's not really as if that Russian game was close either. We pulled two back - one of them a penalty - after they took the foot off the peddle completely.

Is rather Josh be playing at all... doubt for Tuesday now.
Calf strain.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2011/0904/ireland_osheaj.html

[the bear]

here as well bonnie, says given getting treatment instead of training also

http://www.football365.com/news/21554/7150358/O-Shea-a-doubt-for-Republic

[DannyInvincible]

****.

[Noelys Guitar]

I'm not too bothered if O'Shea dosen't make it. He looked a shell of a player against Slovakia and was awful against Macedonia away at center half. If he is not fully fit then he becomes a liability. Better to have a fully fit Foley at right full.

[DannyInvincible]

Given's a worry too. Although I'm hoping him sitting out training was just precautionary.

[DannyInvincible]

I see that Castrol calculation site updated their calculations today, so what I'd posted earlier seems to be how they rated our chances prior to the Slovakia game. Here is how they rate the chances of ourselves, Russia and Slovakia now.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/GroupCalculator_med_399061efe518d226967fc0a93a1c06 32.png

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/GroupCalculatorRUS_med_44de4c50a8d46428e53519547ee 911eb.png

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/GroupCalculatorSVK_med_1e074c3424f63f89cadd1fa8498 e24b5.png

They still predict that we're most likely to finish second; just that our chance of qualifying is slightly less than it was before Friday night whilst the chances of the other two are rated as slightly higher.

[Noelys Guitar]

Slovakia played as well as they are likely to play in this group on Friday (Russia away included). They have a real problem scoring goals They will struggle to score against Armenia on Tuesday. And I can't see them beating Russia for a second time. So the tables in DI's post do make sense.

[shakermaker1982]

O'Shea definitely out now. Big chance for Foley.

[Sullivinho]

Semi-reinflated after friday's result. I can remember defeats that were easier to take than that draw. Individual performances ranged from poor to very poor but I'd reserve an exemption and special mention for Sean St. Ledger who continues to save his best for Ireland.

I've never really fancied us to get anything in Moscow so expectation is closed (it proved unreliable last week anyway) and hope is open for business. I might have better luck with her.

Very concerned about a repeat of the reverse fixture with our 442, soft centre combo. Against semi-decent teams there (almost) always seems to arrive that ominous moment soon enough into the game when the opposition midfield realise they have the measure of ours and begin pigging out on possession. It was especially pronounced and hard to watch against Slovakia. Oh for a modicum of presence and composure in there.


I see that Castrol calculation site updated their calculations today, so what I'd posted earlier seems to be how they rated our chances prior to the Slovakia game. Here is how they rate the chances of ourselves, Russia and Slovakia now.

The disparity between Slovakian and Irish chances seems a bit off there doesn't it? I'd have thought our chances were fairly even at this stage..

[BonnieShels]

My confidence is slowly returning.
Still haven't seen anything if our game since O left the stadium on Friday. It's probably best at this stage that that remains the case.