did you ever imagine an irish side

[irishultra]

would make group stages proper. drogheda were the closest any team has been really, didnt think we'd see a team get closer and to think the glory days of loi football was seen when cork were doin good in the intertoto cup/

[Torn-Ado]

would make group stages proper. drogheda were the closest any team has been really, didnt think we'd see a team get closer and to think the glory days of loi football was seen when cork were doin good in the intertoto cup/

Didn't Drogheda have another qualifier to play if they did beat Kiev that time.

[mandrake]

we wouldve had to beat spartak moscow, which i thim we wouldve won, kiev beat them 8-2 on agg....!
no europa legue parachute then... i think that was the last chance myself, we were a good team and all ............ bohs were never that good in europe and then everyone went part time...so it seemed further away...rover took their chances well done

[irishultra]

would drogheda not have gone into uefa cup no? ah that wud have been ****...thought it was same as now back then so even then drogheda werent that close

[TheBoss]

Correct, as said above they would have played Spartak, and they would not have gone into the UEFA Cup if they lost.

[DannyInvincible]

To be honest, I feared the broad departure from fully professional football might lead to a lull period, if you will, after a few years of knocking on the door with some very respectable so-near-yet-so-far efforts, but fortunately Shamrock Rovers nipped any possible regression in the bud by breaking through what I think has been nothing but a defining stigma for the league. It's clear from his post-match interviews that although he was approaching the game in a proper and professional manner, Michael O'Neill believed before hand that it was probably a step too far - especially with Partizan having the away goal - but European qualification now no longer needs to be psychological barricaded away as a pipe dream for any team representing the league in Europe.

Rovers fully merit their place and not once did they look out-of-place competing at such a level, be it against Flora, Copenhagen or Partizan. Please God, they can push on now and demonstrate that they're not just there to make up the numbers; something to force people to continue taking notice of their intent at least. Fair enough, the explosion in exposure is undeniably positive and where the club was a few years ago puts the achievement in perspective, but for the above reason, I find the whole over-riding "romantic fairytale" slant that the British media especially has been eager to put on this as somewhat patronising. Rovers aren't "minnows" or "a pub-team of butchers, bakers and candle-stick makers". They're a serious outfit who aren't competing in Europe for a bit of craic and a holiday. But I suppose people love a good rags-to-riches-type narrative.

As for other teams who've went close in recent years, Derry were one game away from the UEFA Cup group stage in 2006-07 after holding PSG to a 0-0 draw in the first round at the Brandywell before going down 2-0 in Paris. St. Pat's reached the same round in the 2008-09 UEFA Cup, although they were already 2-0 down to Hertha Berlin going into the second leg. They made it to what became the play-off round the year after that again but went down 5-1 on aggregate to Steaua Bucharest. It's not some flash in the pan. It's been building up to this and thankfully that period of progression has not been for nothing.

[irishultra]

oh ye definetly ever since shels run in 2003, the signs have been there, then there was corks run in intertoto, derry, drogheda drawing in ukraine and pat's over a couple of seasons.

pat's were kinda unlucky against hertha...cud have got the match to extra time and who knows wat would have happened then..fahey hit the post and few other chances.

but i really thought the last round would be too much, and once the kinda 'golden era' ended for the league of ireland in around 2008 i just cudnt see it happening.

but ye in a way this was 8 years comin all da way back to shels in those 2003 days...emotional when u think about it

[CuanaD]

Correct, as said above they would have played Spartak, and they would not have gone into the UEFA Cup if they lost.
Not exactly right there
Spartak was next round alright, but even if they lost that they would have got another game in the UEFA - Round 1 (the last qualifying round before the group stages) as Spartak did that year winning 2:1 on agg & qualifying for the Group stages. Group stage was the 5-team leagues (1 game home or away) & Spartak met Spurs there too - 2:2 draw in that one.

It's all here:
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/match2009.html

[legendz]

I was confident Rovers were going in that direction but did not expect it this year. Their manager has admitted he didn't think they would. I thought they'd have needed at least another 2-3 years. Qualification did not look likely after the first-half of the first-leg but thankfully Rovers kicked on from there.

[freewheel30]

To be honest, I feared the broad departure from fully professional football might lead to a lull period, if you will, after a few years of knocking on the door with some very respectable so-near-yet-so-far efforts, but fortunately Shamrock Rovers nipped any possible regression in the bud by breaking through what I think has been nothing but a defining stigma for the league. It's clear from his post-match interviews that although he was approaching the game in a proper and professional manner, Michael O'Neill believed before hand that it was probably a step too far - especially with Partizan having the away goal - but European qualification now no longer needs to be psychological barricaded away as a pipe dream for any team representing the league in Europe.

Rovers fully merit their place and not once did they look out-of-place competing at such a level, be it against Flora, Copenhagen or Partizan. Please God, they can push on now and demonstrate that they're not just there to make up the numbers; something to force people to continue taking notice of their intent at least. Fair enough, the explosion in exposure is undeniably positive and where the club was a few years ago puts the achievement in perspective, but for the above reason, I find the whole over-riding "romantic fairytale" slant that the British media especially has been eager to put on this as somewhat patronising. Rovers aren't "minnows" or "a pub-team of butchers, bakers and candle-stick makers". They're a serious outfit who aren't competing in Europe for a bit of craic and a holiday. But I suppose people love a good rags-to-riches-type narrative.

As for other teams who've went close in recent years, Derry were one game away from the UEFA Cup group stage in 2006-07 after holding PSG to a 0-0 draw in the first round at the Brandywell before going down 2-0 in Paris. St. Pat's reached the same round in the 2008-09 UEFA Cup, although they were already 2-0 down to Hertha Berlin going into the second leg. They made it to what became the play-off round the year after that again but went down 5-1 on aggregate to Steaua Bucharest. It's not some flash in the pan. It's been building up to this and thankfully that period of progression has not been for nothing.

Would agree with pretty much all of this, although there was one interview on the day of the game that gave a good insight into O'Neill's mindset, and perhaps revealed the real extent to which he believed they could get a result

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/the-pressure-is-on-partizan-2857369.html

Trying to remember, did RTE televise the PSG-Derry game . . . Deportivo and Hertha they definitely did . . . the Steaua tie was probably too far gone for them to televise, although Pats did end up taking a 1-0 lead and came close to geting a second.

[placid casual]

Whatever clubs qualify for Europe next season, they will have Rovers victory and progress as a marker.
Sligo & Derry particulary look to have the necessary to hold their own amongst Europes teams so its up to them to instill in their teams the belief that any team they face can be beaten.

when we played Copenhagen the 1st time I felt we wouldnt beat them.
I would have been far more confident now if we had drawn them in the group stages .
Everyone is beatable.
Luck, clearly is a factor ,but application and confidence is absolutely vital to win home or away.

[Dunny]

To answer the thread title, yes. Dundalk progress to the final and beat Real Madrid 4-3 on penos, Cherrie saves. ;)

[Spudulika]

Simple Answer, yes. Of course. We've had clubs come close, though with the revenue streams Rovers enjoy of course it would happen to them first. They are on a par with the Slovak, Slovenian and Cypriot sides who've gone through, and it's a great stepspite the hype, the same League first because despite the hype, the same money isn't there as it is for the european winners to 4th place league. Clubs can model themselves slightly on Rovers but do more to promote in order to bring in more fans. Of course the FAI can assist in this, though it's easy to blame them. It would be mgnificent to see another team in next season. If they do a BATE Borisov model they can be in the group stages, but to do this they need to plough as much of the "windfall" as possible into their youth set up, coaching and facilities as possible. SDCC must be absolutely thrilled with all of this. Credit to them too!

[KianD]

Yes. 100%.

Didn't think it was going to happen so soon what with the drain of players and clubs going back to part time since the recession but the signs have been there for a decade now.

[TheBoss]

Not exactly right there
Spartak was next round alright, but even if they lost that they would have got another game in the UEFA - Round 1 (the last qualifying round before the group stages) as Spartak did that year winning 2:1 on agg & qualifying for the Group stages. Group stage was the 5-team leagues (1 game home or away) & Spartak met Spurs there too - 2:2 draw in that one.

It's all here:
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/match2009.html


Alright, thought that process began with the start Europa League

[fionnsci]

I think the system now aids our progress. The champions get two cracks at the whip now, provided that they beat the unseeded team like Talinn or TNS which should usually happen.

[gormacha]

To respond directly to the thread question (adopts Phineas and Ferb stylee): Why yes, yes I did.

However, I fully expected it to be Waterford United who would make the breakthrough. <coughs>

Hello - I'm a noob. Hope to enjoy some football blather with y'all.

[Charlie Darwin]

To be honest, I feared the broad departure from fully professional football might lead to a lull period, if you will, after a few years of knocking on the door with some very respectable so-near-yet-so-far efforts, but fortunately Shamrock Rovers nipped any possible regression in the bud by breaking through what I think has been nothing but a defining stigma for the league. It's clear from his post-match interviews that although he was approaching the game in a proper and professional manner, Michael O'Neill believed before hand that it was probably a step too far - especially with Partizan having the away goal - but European qualification now no longer needs to be psychological barricaded away as a pipe dream for any team representing the league in Europe.

Rovers fully merit their place and not once did they look out-of-place competing at such a level, be it against Flora, Copenhagen or Partizan. Please God, they can push on now and demonstrate that they're not just there to make up the numbers; something to force people to continue taking notice of their intent at least. Fair enough, the explosion in exposure is undeniably positive and where the club was a few years ago puts the achievement in perspective, but for the above reason, I find the whole over-riding "romantic fairytale" slant that the British media especially has been eager to put on this as somewhat patronising. Rovers aren't "minnows" or "a pub-team of butchers, bakers and candle-stick makers". They're a serious outfit who aren't competing in Europe for a bit of craic and a holiday. But I suppose people love a good rags-to-riches-type narrative.

As for other teams who've went close in recent years, Derry were one game away from the UEFA Cup group stage in 2006-07 after holding PSG to a 0-0 draw in the first round at the Brandywell before going down 2-0 in Paris. St. Pat's reached the same round in the 2008-09 UEFA Cup, although they were already 2-0 down to Hertha Berlin going into the second leg. They made it to what became the play-off round the year after that again but went down 5-1 on aggregate to Steaua Bucharest. It's not some flash in the pan. It's been building up to this and thankfully that period of progression has not been for nothing.
Yeah, maybe a bit patronising, but you have to take note of the advantages the other teams have over Rovers (and Sligo/Pats/Bohs). Craig Sives said as much in the Rovers program before the first leg, that he went to take the ball around a Copenhagen player in Denmark and it was like he was running into a brick wall. Rovers players might not be carpenters by trade, but they don't have the same level of physical training that full-time sides do, which makes it all the more impressive that the breakthrough was made against a team that was in the Champions League last year.

[mypost]

Would agree with pretty much all of this, although there was one interview on the day of the game that gave a good insight into O'Neill's mindset, and perhaps revealed the real extent to which he believed they could get a result

We're going to get that muck for a while to come. Everyone, absolutely everyone wanted us in the draw. Even rubbish like Bangor City wanted to face us. Partizan thought we were on a par with Rhyl, a team they battered a couple of years ago. Well now the 1966 EC finalists know how good we are. Spurs were delighted to get us too, their coach declaring he was going to have a good weekend in Dublin, despite the game on a Thursday.

Only with consistent good results and consequent international recognition though will we change the perception that we're little more than a pub side from an awful league having a holiday in these games. We may not earn as much as the opponents, or as physically strong as them, but what we do have is belief, spirit, and a refusal to give up when we're chasing the game. That's half the battle. Of course, there will be rough nights now and again, as we find our feet against this kind of opposition. But long gone are the days when Europe was a holiday, and clubs lost by 10 goals or more. We'll give it a go, and see whether it's good enough on the night.

[bennocelt]

But long gone are the days when Europe was a holiday, and clubs lost by 10 goals or more. We'll give it a go, and see whether it's good enough on the night.

Exactly, LOI teams have improved enough now to at least be competitive in most Euro games, the league isnt as bad as it used to be and is producing good footballers and decent teams. Some day the general Irish public just might get off the bar stool and go to a match. Good results in Europe will push this I'm sure.
I expected a LOI team to get to the group stages this season - cause for the first time a Bohs, pats and Rovers were seeded (three seeds!) and Sligo in the third round. But I never would have expected the manner it was achieved, i was hoping for easier draws that the LOi teams were given, but Shams doing the business was great.

[legendz]

A few have disagreed with this on here but I've said a few times after last year that if TNS could get to the EL play-offs, our champions should be able to do that as well. When TNS got by Bohs last year, after going out to Anderlecht they took on CSKA Sofia in the EL play-offs. I've always thought the Bohs of last year or Shamrock Rovers in that position would've given CSKA a good game.

[freewheel30]

A few have disagreed with this on here but I've said a few times after last year that if TNS could get to the EL play-offs, our champions should be able to do that as well. When TNS got by Bohs last year, after going out to Anderlecht they took on CSKA Sofia in the EL play-offs. I've always thought the Bohs of last year or Shamrock Rovers in that position would've given CSKA a good game.

Derry gave that club a good run a couple of years ago, only lost 2-1 on aggregate.

[outspoken]

I don't want to sound like a pr1ck but I did say at the stat of the season that this was the best squad in the loi since Shels went close in Europe and that I could see them qualifying for the EL.

[geezer]

Its like a dream, except for im in the bad part of it and looking at the bright side, im in the car, at home, at work, the newspapers. The wife hasnt spoke to me in 4 months because im down so far in the bunker always on the phone hacking away with some crazy volunteers at our own club when suddenly we see a light a ray of hope, dont know if it will help but i feel like a chilean miner at the first sound of communication from above. Marian Finucane is on Radio 1 with Stephen O Donnell, Michael McMullan and Brian Kerr Today fm...Stephen O Donnell, I hear a lady sports journalist & a Lady dj on 2fm talking about it before rugby , I buy the Sunday Business Post, yes the Sunday Business Post and lo and behold the lads at Rovers are now the beacon of light for the country, I hear CLare Byrne on Radio 1 this morning with a panel of the good, the rich and those lucky enough to work in universitys talking about the incredible 400 club. Words like, Gounded, example to the nation, Persistence, Loyal....

and amazingly its not a dream its the League of Ireland, there are pictures of the rovers team celebrating everywhere, its all over 4 fookin pages of the indo yesterday.

What was once referred to as the "one man and his dog" League is this week a beacon of light & hope for the nation..

Long may it Last, congratulations & thank heavens for Shamrock Rovers you bring hope to us in the doldrums

[gormacha]

What was once referred to as the "one man and his dog" League is this week a beacon of light & hope for the nation..

Long may it Last, congratulations & thank heavens for Shamrock Rovers you bring hope to us in the doldrums

Hmmm... I'm not so sure. I think this is a classic case of what psychologists refer to as transference. It's as if all the country's economic, social and cultural woes, hopes and potential solutions are transferred onto Rovers' (undoubtedly fantastic) exploits. The groups and people you name - Finucane, RTE Sport, SBP etc - have no grounding, afilliation, relationship to, or identification with, the LOI. This story fits their current interests as they need a feelgood story in order to fulfill their need for a national narrative of ... you guessed it ... woe, hope and potential solutions.

Rovers' win was many things, but it wasn't any of these. As soon as Rovers start to struggle in the group stage, the story will disappear once more, leaving the LOI largely unchanged in the national imagination, reverting to the usual suspects of the GAA, banking crises and whatnot.

Don't get me wrong - I think Rovers pulled off an amazing result; I think it will bring some significant benefit to the LOI; and I hope they do great in the group stages. But it does not herald a significant change in the cultural landscape of Ireland. I hope it brings in a few more fans, but that's the limit of my expectations. To ask it to bear any more than that is to place too much of a burden on it - more than it can ever deliver, or should be expected to.

[nigel-harps1954]

The surprising part for me was Today FM giving a big segment to it.

[pineapple stu]

Trying to remember, did RTE televise the PSG-Derry game
Both those games were televised anyway - wasn't it the BBC did the home game and RTÉ the away game?


Alright, thought that process began with the start Europa League
Remember after Shels lost to La Coruna, they went into the UEFA to play Lille. The drop-out in the qualifiers has been around for a while now.

[DannyInvincible]

Both those games were televised anyway - wasn't it the BBC did the home game and RTÉ the away game?

BBC and Eurosport did the home game. I think we recorded both for some reason. Jackie Fullerton was commentating for BBC and his words "stonewall penalty" left an indelible mark on my mind after Kevin McHugh was brought down in the PSG box but the ref waved play on. I'm not sure who showed the away game but I do remember when I saw the footage, it was in this non-widescreen format that created an odd tunnel vision effect. Whoever was broadcasting it were sure to blame Canal+ anyway.

[Shelsman]

To be honest, I feared the broad departure from fully professional football might lead to a lull period, if you will, after a few years of knocking on the door with some very respectable so-near-yet-so-far efforts.

I was afraid of this too, I thought that all of the gains in recent years might be lost with most (all?) clubs going part time again. To answer the original question to the thread though, the answer is no -I never thought I'd live to see it (of course I always hoped and dreamed it would -I have been playing Euromillions!!!). I only thought this would happen if a billionaire decided to take over an Irish club and sink at least €20 Million into it (that's what happened for the Cypriot teams).


European qualification now no longer needs to be psychologically barricaded away as a pipe dream for any team representing the league in Europe.

True, Irish teams can have a much greater belief. Well done to Michael O'Neill for keeping his players motivated and focused.


Rovers fully merit their place and not once did they look out-of-place competing at such a level, be it against Flora, Copenhagen or Partizan. Please God, they can push on now and demonstrate that they're not just there to make up the numbers; something to force people to continue taking notice of their intent at least. ..... I find the whole over-riding "romantic fairytale" slant that the British media especially has been eager to put on this as somewhat patronising. Rovers aren't "minnows" or "a pub-team of butchers, bakers and candle-stick makers".

To be honest I have to partly disagree, Copenhagen looked a different class than Rovers (albeit in patches), though I still think a 3-0 aggregate defeat for Rovers was unfair and/or unlucky. The difference between the two sides was in the finishing and little else. I was actually hoping that Rovers would get Copenhagen in their group so as to get a chance to set the record straight.

As for Partizan it was a similar story, they had a few class players and put together some awesome moves. Rovers won this tie because:
(a) Rovers wanted it more than Belgrade
(b) Rovers scored two world class goals over the tie (let's be honest here lads, they probably don't score goals like that every week).
(c) Partizan were just assuming they would win (much like Shels thought they would beat Hibernians of Malta in 2002)
(d) While Partizan had some top class players, they simply didn't have enough of them
(e) Rovers had some luck on their side -Ryan Thompson gifted Partizan two clear goalscoring opportunities (on in each leg) and was very lucky not to have had a penalty awarded against him in the second leg.

OK, so we don't want to say Rovers got through because they were lucky. Rovers were genuinely brilliant and a credit to themselves, the league and the country. The reality is though that they can't bank on (b) and (e) above every season (though it would be nice if they got super goals like that every year in Europe, as well as the breaks).

A priority now is for Rovers to find a replacement for Thompson as (despite his exceptional shot stopping) he is a massive liability. Otherwise, the Rovers defence should never leave it to him to clear the ball and they should instead put the ball out for a throw in. O'Neill has to tell Thompson to aim for the sidelines for his goal kicks too (seeing as they're so bad).

I was also worried that Turner would get sent off in one of the legs as he is an over-the-top player.

I'd also have worries about Twiggs ability to score in Europe -perhaps he scores so many in the league here because he has more skill than most defenders here, but in Europe that advantage is lost. Kilduff has his physical presence (and looks to have a good touch too) and Sheppard has his pace. Gary O'Neill is also a terrific link player.

Anyway, regardless of what happens from here on, we're into dreamland!

[Shelsman]

BBC and Eurosport did the home game. I think we recorded both for some reason. Jackie Fullerton was commentating for BBC and his words "stonewall penalty" left an indelible mark on my mind after Kevin McHugh was brought down in the PSG box but the ref waved play on. I'm not sure who showed the away game but I do remember when I saw the footage, it was in this non-widescreen format that created an odd tunnel vision effect. Whoever was broadcasting it were sure to blame Canal+ anyway.

Yes, there've been plenty of times when Irish clubs were savage unlucky. The Derry / PSG game for the penalty above, Bohs late own goals in two ties recently. I think we got the rub of the green with Rovers in the Belgrade tie as I mention above -Thompson gifting two chances that Partizan didn't take and then clattering into one of their players and not having a penalty awarded against him (possibly a sending off too).

[Charlie Darwin]

To be honest I have to partly disagree, Copenhagen looked a different class than Rovers (albeit in patches), though I still think a 3-0 aggregate defeat for Rovers was unfair and/or unlucky. The difference between the two sides was in the finishing and little else.
These two sentences seem to say opposite things.


A priority now is for Rovers to find a replacement for Thompson as (despite his exceptional shot stopping) he is a massive liability. Otherwise, the Rovers defence should never leave it to him to clear the ball and they should instead put the ball out for a throw in. O'Neill has to tell Thompson to aim for the sidelines for his goal kicks too (seeing as they're so bad).
He's not going to be replaced. Bear in mind he only has 6 or 7 games of football under his belt and he's still young in goalkeeping terms. He is an outstanding shot-stopper and has already improved upon his early displays when he looked very unsure under crosses.

[mypost]

"Massive liability"? Well if he's a "massive liabilty", god knows what the rest are like.

He made a mistake in the first leg, which he made up for, he made another mistake in the second leg, which he got an injury from. That apart, he made 3 or 4 world-class saves, came for every ball, commanded his area, got his punches right, and his clearances out every time. Against Copenhagen, he made another 4 world-class saves to keep us in the tie as long as we were. He was as much a game-winner for us in the last round, as the players who scored.

[Shelsman]

These two sentences seem to say opposite things..

Footballs a funny old game! :D

What I said was: To be honest I have to partly disagree, Copenhagen looked a different class than Rovers (albeit in patches), though I still think a 3-0 aggregate defeat for Rovers was unfair and/or unlucky. The difference between the two sides was in the finishing and little else.

So what I was saying is that Copenhagen can probably play better, but, if they best they can manage is at the same level as their performance against against Rovers in Tallaght then Rovers, on another day, would have a reasonable chance of beating them.

Ultimately I'd/we'd need to see more of Copenhagen to be better able to judge their quality and that's why I was saying that it would be interesting to see Rovers play them again.

[Shelsman]

"Massive liability"? Well if he's a "massive liabilty", god knows what the rest are like.

He made a mistake in the first leg, which he made up for, he made another mistake in the second leg, which he got an injury from. That apart, he made 3 or 4 world-class saves, came for every ball, commanded his area, got his punches right, and his clearances out every time. Against Copenhagen, he made another 4 world-class saves to keep us in the tie as long as we were. He was as much a game-winner for us in the last round, as the players who scored.

To be honest, I think any keeper in any competition who kicks the ball straight to the nearest opposition player in two consecutive games in the same competition has to be considered a liability, especially when he looked to have given away a penalty too.

So what I'm saying is to play to his strengths and don't expose his weaknesses -so don't pass the ball back to him or leave him to come out for a ball. His shot stopping as I originally said is top drawer.

I hope Rovers do well, I'd love to see them win as many games as possible, I just don't want to see Rovers lose matches because a player presses the self-destruct button (it would certainly be embarrassing and wouldn't win us any new fans).

[mypost]

Every keeper makes mistakes, The two kick outs were his only mistakes so far and they weren't costly, so no harm done. They're not exactly going to happen every week. The Belgrade keeper did concede a penalty, and could have got sent off. Is he a "massive liability"?

I remember when Shels played Coruna, the first goal came after a Shels player lost the ball in his own half. Then the roof fell in, but it was a great adventure for them.

Our last keeper put the ball in his own net, (not for the first time) from an indirect free kick recently. That was very costly, and he's now getting motivated to sit on the bench at St. Mirren. Ryan will do fine, and he'll make many more game-winning saves than costly mistakes.

[BonnieShels]

I still think its funny that Thompson is getting stick for his mistakes, which as you quite rightly point out, all keepers make. The difference is though when he has been called upon he has been magnificent. Some of the last ditch saves he made including that full stretch one where it looked a certain goal were world class.

Hope he has many of those moments to come, in Europe.

[legendz]

In answer to the thread topic, I posted before about clubs from countries ranked lower than Ireland making the group stages. The main point was that while being a mountain that had to be climbed it wasn't insurmountable.

[Straightstory]

I think the solution to the Thompson dilemma may be to get another player to take the goal kicks. (Not unprecedented). He looks VERY erratic, but 'that' save he made in Belgrade to tip the ball around the post is one of the best I've ever seen. (Incidentally, Mannus is with St Johnstone, not St Mirren).

[nigel-harps1954]

I've been impressed with Thompson from what I've seen. Every keeper makes mistakes, but shot stopping has to be number 1 priority and in that department he's as good as anyone in the league. He has coaches there to deal with kicking problems. Give him a chance.