LCD TV problem

[paul_oshea]

I have a 37" LCD HD 100 HZ 1080p Phillips tv for 3 years and for the last 6 months, the right hand side is all black and a bit of white on the side. I gather its the tube, as someone else said the same to me also.

The question is, I thought it was only CRT tvs that had tubes and the LCDs/plasmas didn't.....so I'm wondering was i just thinking in olden times. So whats the problem and how do i fix it?

After a while it looks more like a discolouration or something. Like when it warms up or something. NOt always though.

[A N Mouse]

Don't think this is the kind of thing you can fix yourself, and even if you could it wouldn't be advisable.

Take it's not under warranty so need to find an expert, can't help you there.

As to the tube thing. In old tv the tube was the display - big magnet thing firing electrons at a screen, or something like that.

Now it's pixels which are told what to do. And from what I can gather tube refers to the thing round the side that illuminates the display - this would make sense if your picture is just dark and not otherwise damaged.

[Eminence Grise]

I think that EU legislation gives a 5-year warranty on electrical goods. Retailers don't want to know about it, and won't entertain a claim, but it might be worth contacting the EU consumer rights office in Dublin and getting their help. AFAIK you are still entitled to have it repaired under that warranty. I wouldn't resort to home repairs - but that's just technologically-inept me.

[paul_oshea]

No i wouldn't try it either just wanted to know if it was worth fixing. ballsy thing is i sold my car so ive no way of getting it down to a repair shop. BUt the thing cost me 750 quid so i dont want to have to get rid of it yet.

[dahamsta]

It's not a tube anyway, that's CRT. EG is right on the EU legislation, although there isn't really a set time on it, it's more of a "fit for purpose" thing. 3.5 years isn't really fit for purpose for an LCD TV, so I'd follow his advice and talk to a consumer rights organisation. Try here for some info:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/consumer_rights_and_cross_border_shopping_in_the_e uropean_union.html

[paul_oshea]

I purchased it over here in London from richer sounds in Novemeber 2007.

They have told me that they will "pass on my details to customer services who will call back". I'm really up for getting them on this. BUt that above link mentions nothing about fit for purpose for 5 years?

I gather EU laws/directives have to be adhered to in England?

All i could find on sites was 2 year warrant under article 5 of sale of consumer goods act:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/xbox-360-hardware/475729-2-year-warranty-standard-eu-law.html

http://www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/wordpress/eu-2-year-guarantee-sales-of-goods-act-gives-us-6-years-to-claim-for-faulty-appliances/

[dahamsta]

The link was for reference, and I didn't say "5 years". See the contacts at the bottom.

Richer Sounds are good guys, if anyone'll send it back to the manufacturer, it'll be them.

[paul_oshea]

Ya I know you didn't but perhaps I was being lazy and expecting it to be there :)

Yep they seem decent and the few things I have bought off them I have found that too. However I don't think they will agree with me on this one...

In England it appears to be 6 years based on SOGA as opposed to any EU directive, however that 6 years places the onus on the buyer to prove it wasn't general wear and tear/or user broken. The onus is then on the seller and not the manufacturer to provide cover.

Anyway I am ringing Consumer Direct up and when i have official confirmation I will post here, in case anyone else is interested.

[paul_oshea]

Ok So I spoke to Consumer Direct, who told me there are a few options I can take, one is the fact that it was paid by credit card, a contract was agreed under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which covers the purchase for 5 years.

THe other is the Limitations Act 1980 as part of the Sales and Goods Act, covers for 6 years in the event that an "expert" advises that the part is faulty, and should last generally x number of years. If its general wear and tear, say for example in a car, the brakes then this obviouslly wouldn't be covered. Proving in a tele if something is general wear and tear I was also advised is not as straightforward(yes i know no sh1t sherlock). Therefore, if you get at least 2 independent TV repairs to advise of the problem and whether or not they would expect this to last at least 4 years then I would be covered, essentially. ANy costs incurred by getting this analysis/diagnosis done would be covered if its not general wear and tear - again obvious to most I assume.

EU Directives, like my Business Studies teacher wrongly told me, as did my Business book from school, do not have to be adopted into member state law. Its there for states that do not have Consumer Rights, or are minimal. In England they haven't adopted them, because generally the laws already in place protect the consumer more than the EU directives.

Anyway I don't know what could go in a TV that would be considered general wear and tear when i watch it possibly an hour to 2 an evening and rarely on weekends. SO i think if richer sounds don't provide at least a free call by an Engineer then I will pursue further. It cost me a lot after all.

[paul_oshea]

Latest update: Richer Sounds customer service advised me they would like to help me, but because its out of warranty there would be a call out fee for an Engineer plus any costs for parts etc. I advised I was very happy for them to help but I would have to get an independent report from a "TV repair person", to advise whether or not the part was faulty or broke because of general wear and tear, and if it was the former then I am covered under the SOGA. He advised that whereever i had read this I was not covered in any shape or form, until I gave the case number. He then came back to me saying please email us this independent report, we will then have to verify with our own technical experts and then get back to me.

He was nice in fairness, tried to brush me off until I provided the case number and proof of the Acts. I just hope now that the part that has gone is not considered to be general wear and tear. I dont watch TV excessively as stated before.

Anyway thanks again for the above help and I will let you know via here how this proceeds. Fighting the fight for the layman - against the Man :D Joking....

[paul_oshea]

So i got an independent TV repair crowd to take the tele away for an inspection and to create a report. £90 to do the inspection and return the tv, anything else will be extra, however I only want the report for now.

The guy who took it said it looks like the actual LCD screen is gone which can be almost twice the price of the TV. I asked him but would you expect that to go in a 3.+ year TV, he advised no, but said its very hard to prove, as they usually provide a guaranteed for 3000 hours of TV for example as opposed to an actual yearly quantification, which I can sorta see, however that makes it almost impossible to prove. Unless of course the TV uses a unique amount of wattage(by time) when its on and asked my Energy Supplier to calculate since Nov 15th 2007 how much has been used :D

Don't see myself getting much from this to be honest but maybe I could be wrong :) No harm in trying.

[paul_oshea]

So latest with this is I got the report back about the TV.

It requires a new LCD panel. Which will cost almost double the price of the original TV.

I rang up Consumer Direct, and they advised me to write a letter, to whom it may concern under the title of the Sales of Goods Act 1979. Advise of purchase and all details related to the purchase(make/model/payment method/date etc) and then say that the product is not of Satisfactory Quality(the correct term under the Act supposedly) and advise whether you wanted a replacement/repair/or your money back. They told me include the report as well, but not advise of any contact with Consumer Direct as of yet. They said the best approach for sending is customer services, with recorded delivery, and to finish the letter by stating that you expect a reply within x number of working days. I said 7 :)

So ive posted to Richer Sounds and my credit card company(as covered under consumer credit act of 1980 also ).

This could become quite an expensive excursion for me with no end product....

[dahamsta]

Well done for carrying on with it. Sadly, we live in a culture where most people don't bother their arses. The upside is that when people like us do, we often come out of it better than when we went in. Free car rental for my honeymoon here. A bit of stress on the day and a little ranting, but free is free. :)

I've also had free line rental for a year (written letter to CEO of Eircom), free broadband for several months (ditto BT), free car rental I never took up with another agency, etc, etc.

[paul_oshea]

May I ask, how have you got so much free car rental? Did they try and charge you for something when they shouldn't have?

Ya thats kinda the attitude I'm taking, normally I would be one of those who "don't bother their arses", but if even something comes of it then it proves its worth it and others might follow suit.

[paul_oshea]

I rang up Consumer Direct today to ask for further advice on the matter as I hadn't heard anything back from them, they advised to send another letter and state the first letter and date.

I thought to myself I would hold out for another day and see if I got any response.

I just got a call from Richer Sounds, from a lady called Rachel, to say they would be collecting my TV on Thursday. I didn't ask too many questions, other than if they could specify a time frame so I dont have to take the day off work, to which I was told they would ring on Thursday to advise.

[dahamsta]

Can't remember the first one, but the 2nd time someone scraped a rental when I was on honeymoon and the Croatian agent rode us on the repairs. We decided not to bother arguing the point given the occasion, but I took photos and gave Avis an earful when I got back, and to be fair to them, they refunded the lot to us.

I always get the full insurance now, and drive the hole off the car. Only downside it that they sometimes try to give you one of the crappier cars, but sure as long as it works, I don't care. Got a brand new Fiat 500 the last time though. Still a crap car. :)

Did RS tell you what they were going to do with it? Make sure you get a receipt for it.

[paul_oshea]

I didn't have time to speak to them unfortunately, so I rang them back this morning. The lady I spoke with was actually from the courier company.

Richer Sounds are going to do an inspection on it, and they wouldn't say what will follow from there.

[tricky_colour]

I have a 37" LCD HD 100 HZ 1080p Phillips tv for 3 years and for the last 6 months, the right hand side is all black and a bit of white on the side. I gather its the tube, as someone else said the same to me also.

The question is, I thought it was only CRT tvs that had tubes and the LCDs/plasmas didn't.....so I'm wondering was i just thinking in olden times. So whats the problem and how do i fix it?

After a while it looks more like a discolouration or something. Like when it warms up or something. NOt always though.


LCDs do have tubes in them I think, cold cathode tubes I think but I am not too sure of the details.
However basically the do need a light source, a more modern TV might use LEDs as the light source,
you can make thinner tube's with them I think.

The question is whether there is a problem with the light source or the liquid crystal display part.
The liquid crystal display part works by blocking light it generates no light itself.

If your problem is with the light source it might be possible to get it fixed, however if it is with
the liquid bit I doubt it can be repaired cost effectively.

It is basically like having fluorescent tubes in the back of the TV and the LCD bit creates the picture
by blocking out the light in the right place (for a black and white picture) for colour picture you just need
red blue and green filters on the part blocked out.

The difficult bit is blocking out enough of he powerful lights at the back which is why the screen are judged on the
the blackness of the black bits as as black is the hardest colour to recreate. This why you see contrast ratios
given on the specification as a high contrast ratio indicates a good black.

You description of the fault is not particularly clear "right hand side is all black and a bit of white on the side".

Do you see any picture at all? Or just a mainly black screen? What is on the left hand side?
Anyway reading on it seem it is the LCD screen.

I had a 32" LCD TV a few years back and I had problems with the HDMI sockets, they tended to work OK
at first but after a bit of use noise developed on the picture. Switching to a different socket fixed it however
that to developed the same fault (now 2 sockets out of the available 4).
Anyhow I was fiddling about with the TV over day pushing the hdmi connection in with my hand of the screen
for extra force ;) and suddenly the screen went black and it never recovered.
I kind of felt like I had broke it, however it was only about 2 months old so I took it back to the shop
to try and get a refund.

All was going well until a pushy salesman came over and and tried to convince me to accept a gift voucher
rather than the full refund I expected.
I did manage to get my refund but I also ended up getting banned from the store for "swearing in front of
a female member of staff".
What happened was she was giving the refund and he kept pressing me as to why I would not accept a gift
voucher until in exasperation I told him "Cos I don't ****ing want one!!!" or words to that effect.
I was also 'throw out' of the store (ordered to leave), I took my time over that, and he followed me out
which lead to another barrage of abuse from me!!
It was all quite amusing really.

I did however go back to the same store and buy another TV there and I also got a letter from them
saying I was not banned from the store later. ( I complained about the incident on their website (Comet)).


Your TV seems to fall into a rather grey area, maybe you could try making them sort of offer on a new TV from their
store, ie a similar TV at half price?

Another thing is there is not really much that can go in a TV, I think most of the faults will be due to things heating and cooling
causing metal fatigue and perhaps a joint or soldered connection going open circuit.

Might be worth taking the back off and have a look or poke around to see if anything is is loose, can't do
any harm....... as long as you don't electrocute yourself. Even cleaning out dust and dirt might help.

[paul_oshea]

Ok So latest update on this was before I went away on the 22nd of September I got a letter from Julian RIcher apologising and saying they would loook at the tele for free, identify the problem and see how much the knew parts would cost etc.

Hadn't heard anything in a while so rang up again last Wednesday/Thursday, I was told the original person i spoke to would ring me back, he did, and mentioned that he was looking into it and would get back to me. Didn't hear anything so emailed the same guy this morning, got a call just now advising that they had difficulty sourcing new parts for the TV and they offered me a credit note or a replacement TV(i gather its ex display) either Toshiba or LG.

To be honest even if its ex-display I'm happy enough with that as its a same size replacement and pretty much the same specs. If it lasts 2 years it would have probably been time to get a new one anyway.

This is just an example to all those who don't bother, that it can be worth bothering sometimes :)

Oh ya, i also received communication from HSBC re: credit card and that act.

[dahamsta]

Well done, and thanks for letting us know how you got on.