Russia-Serbia

[SkStu]

I don't have an "informed" opinion like you given that your partner is croatian if i remember correctly.

however it reminds me of a story a teacher once told us in school, if we in roscommon decided we(lets say the demographics have changed here somewhat and the brazilians are the we) want to break away from Ireland set out own state, we could. The point is simple, bar the ethnicity issue, if I were serbian I would feel somewhat aggrieved.

And just because I don't take part in every single argument doesn't mean my point is any less valid. Time being a major factor for some of that. NOt that I don't have an opinion ;) But in these things on these kinda forums, I realise that there are more informed people on here than I, so sometimes it can be good to realise that :wink:

Im not invalidating any of your points Paul. In fact, you actually didnt make a point in the post i quoted. I just said it was poor form to chip in with a dig at me on something that i tried to offer an opinion on (as it turns out, one part of it was not very well informed) without making any contribution to the discussion yourself. Some would call it trolling, i call it rude.

I do realise that some people are more informed than me. Your latest dig suggests that i dont. Nothing hammers that home as much as internet discussion. There is always someone out there who knows more than you. It still doesnt mean you should be afraid to say what you think. I dont mind being proven wrong.

I highlighted a portion of your post - i thought you said it was bad to simplify things... ;)


If any of you all want to watch something great mixing sports and sad Croatia/Serb/Yugoslavian stuff watch the ESPN 30 for 30 about Vlade Divac And the late (As A Nets fan Great, Great) Drazen Petrovic. I loved it. Brought a weird salty discharge to my eyes more than once. Couldn't believe how poignant it was..

+1. It is my favourite of the 30 for 30's.

[Closed Account 2]

If you speak Dutch or Serbian/Croatian this is a very good thing to watch too, about the 1987 youth team and how they ended up playing against each other in 1999/2000 (we were also in that group as were macedonia), it was made by dutch tv.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu2EzPJhT94

[paul_oshea]

Im not invalidating any of your points Paul. In fact, you actually didnt make a point in the post i quoted. I just said it was poor form to chip in with a dig at me on something that i tried to offer an opinion on (as it turns out, one part of it was not very well informed) without making any contribution to the discussion yourself. Some would call it trolling, i call it rude.

I do realise that some people are more informed than me. Your latest dig suggests that i dont. Nothing hammers that home as much as internet discussion. There is always someone out there who knows more than you. It still doesnt mean you should be afraid to say what you think. I dont mind being proven wrong.

I highlighted a portion of your post - i thought you said it was bad to simplify things... ;)

.

I wasn't trying to offend you, I generally agree with most things you say actually, hence why I made it - as I also over-simplify quite a bit. :) Which to be fair can negate the point being made a lot of the time especially if those aren't aware of the overall/background info.

I meant the point he was trying to make was simple...not the point itself was simple :)

[Gather round]

Good thread. Just a quick question- why does refusing to join Russia & co in not recognising Kosova make Estonia and the other Baltic countries "politically supine"? I'm guessing most Estonians are interested in the politics of Finland and Sweden (their main trading partners?) but would consider pan-Slavic solidarity over Kosovo to be largely irrelevant to them.

[BonnieShels]

Not considering themselves a Slavic people helps I suppose.

[paul_oshea]

Slaven Bilic = Slavic

[Crosby87]

Did you see "The two Escobars" Stu?
Everyone thinks that Pablo had Andres killed but Pablo was already dead.

[paul_oshea]

Biggie and Tupac.

But 2Pac was already dead.

[Closed Account 2]

Good thread. Just a quick question- why does refusing to join Russia & co in not recognising Kosova make Estonia and the other Baltic countries "politically supine"? I'm guessing most Estonians are interested in the politics of Finland and Sweden (their main trading partners?) but would consider pan-Slavic solidarity over Kosovo to be largely irrelevant to them.

It would seem the Baltic states (especially Estonia and Latvia) international policies have been narrowly focused on joining NATO and the EU. The three states have outsourced their air defence to other NATO members - French, Polish, American, Turkish and British (etc) Airforces have been policing Baltic Airspace over the last 8 years. They've sent troops to support NATO missions in Iraq, Afghanistan and Kosovo itself presumably as part of the trade off, and they seem very keen on mirroring US / Western EU international relations. Whether this is a desire to counteract some bogus "Russian Airforce" threat, or whether it's another attempt to antagonise Russia (other examples include the Bronze Statue problems, and the citizenship issues for ex-Soviet people [not just Russians but also Ukrainians, Armenians and Tartars]) is hard to say. Personally I would see it as the latter.

[paul_oshea]

On a slightly in between topics above, my estonian friend was telling me last night how all the Russian papers printed that the Estonian police killed a Russian in the ministry of Defences building, a few days ago. They tried to make it out to be a politically motivated murder :)

[Spudulika]

I didn't hear anything of the sort, just that the guy was protesting for having his apartment taken from him (granted as an ex-soldier) and had a grudge against some from the Defence Ministry. It's not surprising. The Baltic states can be a bit dodgy in their political actions - honouring those who fought with the Nazi's, removing Red Army memorials and mistreating ethnic Russians. However when push comes to shove they have very good relations with Moscow and seem to remain in their sphere.

The whole not recognising Kosovo aspect will always burn as it seemed very unfair. Montenegro would be the epitome of a gangster state (and remains so) yet they did thing the right way and were respected. Plus the sizeable minorities there were respected and protected. Kosovo, led by people who led ethnic cleansing against Serbs and Croats, was a different matter. To the very top they were steeped in blood and as has been shown this year, the darlings of Washington and Downing Street - the KLA - actively participated in the murder of Serb, Kosovar and Croat civilians and the organ harvesting. However they're stuck with the monster they created and it will be a long, long time until they state is universally recognised.