James McClean [Archive] - Page 2

gastric

08/08/2011, 11:25 PM

A big thank you to Nigel for his continued incompetence. It was mentioned somewhere recently that pastoral care of young players was deemed essential if NI was to keep players. Worthington's attitude and treatment of players like Mannus shows he doesn't really get this. Also, this continued bilge of sectaranism will really help young players make a decision to switch to the real Ireland football team.

CraftyToePoke

09/08/2011, 3:41 AM

i think the real question in all this is whether McLean can hope to get to 29 pages like Shane Ferguson did. Exciting times ahead for this thread.

Granted, this young mans recent bout of chicanery, clearly aimed at securing a massive foot.ie thread, and little else, has seen him off to a flyer, he has however made a couple of schoolboy errors which will cost him a thread of any significance in its length, in my opinion, firstly, he will pay for his honesty in putting the matter to bed nice and early, at the first opportunity in fact, and secondly, there is the lack of a Scottish mum in the equation. These factors will see Ferguson remain a figure of interest for longer in this particular matter, but here's to them both being under discussion here for many years to come.

SkStu

09/08/2011, 4:19 AM

Granted, this young mans recent bout of chicanery, clearly aimed at securing a massive foot.ie thread, and little else, has seen him off to a flyer, he has however made a couple of schoolboy errors which will cost him a thread of any significance in its length, in my opinion, firstly, he will pay for his honesty in putting the matter to bed nice and early, at the first opportunity in fact, and secondly, there is the lack of a Scottish mum in he equation. These factors will see Ferguson remain a figure of interest for longer in this particular matter, but here's to them both being under discussion here for many years to come.

All true CTP - we can only pray that some ill informed comments from Worthington or some poor analysis from the Belfast Telegraph will see a perturbed Danny help the young lad creep past 10 pages. After that, its anyones guess. I mean, who could have predicted Fergusons meteoric rise?

DannyInvincible

09/08/2011, 5:00 AM

"But I've said before if you don't want to come and play for Northern Ireland, don't abuse the shirt, don't abuse the nation, don't insult the manager and the IFA by claiming you want to come and play in a friendly. Players have done that in previous years where they feel we're not sure, we haven't decided where we want to play, can we come and play in a meaningless friendly where it doesn't mean much, mixing amongst the lads for three or four days and then disappear off the face of the earth where we don't see them again. Don't abuse it, don't abuse the shirt. Northern Ireland's always been a place where we've prided ourselves on great pride and passion so don't come in and abuse our wee country."

As was pondered on MNS last night, to whom is Healy even referring? It's certainly not McClean. Actually, I can't think of anyone who fits the rather general characterisation outlined by Healy. Maybe Adam Barton - I can see how he might be cast as a bit of a chancer - but then that wasn't years ago either.

Have you a link to these comments...I had a look on OWC and couldn't see any such comments?

I definitely came across similar myself somewhere. I think it was on OWC, but couldn't be certain. Possibly it was on the OWC's Facebook page even. Either way, whether McClean is open about his support for Sinn F�in or not, I still sense that the use of such the tag "provo" in the context was intended strictly as a slur or in a pejorative sense. It was basically another way for someone, probably of a unionist or loyalist persuasion, to besmirch McClean as "scum" and to discredit the legitimacy of his motives as "out-of-order" and "sectarian".

Edit: AB and Bonnie; I'd initially posted it here, but I've responded in the eligibility thread to earlier points you'd made as it was probably more appropriate to place the responses there rather than here, although with the natural cross-over that you're going to get in a topic like this, it's hard to know what's to be considered appropriate and irrelevant.

DannyInvincible

09/08/2011, 5:01 AM

i think the real question in all this is whether McLean can hope to get to 29 pages like Shane Ferguson did. Exciting times ahead for this thread.

I think you've pre-empted me, but who knows? When the time comes, the inclusion of your above two comments might just happen to push this thread on to its 29th page. :p

SwanVsDalton

09/08/2011, 9:35 AM

3 pages in 24 hours is not bad going. He's definitely moving as quick as Ferguson in that regard.

Well both are known to have bags of pace...

ifk101

09/08/2011, 10:55 AM

i think the real question in all this is whether McLean can hope to get to 29 pages like Shane Ferguson did. Exciting times ahead for this thread.

Surprised it took three pages to get the usual moan in. McClean is unlikely to be capped by us anytime soon so it's probably best to avoid this thread in future as his "switch" rather than his footballing abilities will be the topic of discussion.

Expect another "Shane Ferguson", "James McClean" etc etc thread the next time NI announce their squad for their September games.

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 11:02 AM

Not wishing to be antagonistic :rolleyes:, but are you sure? According to Wiki, that is.
But will he be? Would back your judgement on this one.

And out of interest, when did that U-21 rule come into force?
Anyone know?

Here's another link confirming the blunder made by the IFA over McLean.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/4905764.stm

As the "before the age of 21" rule no longer is in place, my understanding is that McLean would now be eligible to play for Northern Ireland.

The "before the age of 21" rule was scraped a couple of years ago.

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 11:05 AM

[QUOTE=ArdeeBhoy;1517302]No offence, but he said he supports SF. Know there's a lot of paranoia about that in the Unionist community, but can assure you that not every current SF supporter 'supports the Provos' or anything like, so that's a slight slur on McClean?
/QUOTE]

No, I don't think it's a slur.

Provisional Sinn Fein = "Provo".

Unless, of course, James is a supporter of the other Sinn Fein, ie. Republican Sinn Fein.

Not that it really matters.

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 11:11 AM

Impressive!!

What a silly comment.

Any "Irish Catholic" who wants to play for Northern Ireland, should definately not be forgot about.

Players, from whatever religious background, who do not want to play for Northern Ireland are the ones that should be forgot about.

Drumcondra 69er

09/08/2011, 11:50 AM

No, I don't think it's a slur.

Provisional Sinn Fein = "Provo".

Unless, of course, James is a supporter of the other Sinn Fein, ie. Republican Sinn Fein.

Not that it really matters.

That's not what was meant and you know it.

In any case the party is referred to as Sinn Fein without the prefix unlike Republican Sinn Fein which used the prefix to distinguish itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinn_F%C3%A9in

dantheman

09/08/2011, 2:18 PM

No, I don't think it's a slur.

Provisional Sinn Fein = "Provo".

Unless, of course, James is a supporter of the other Sinn Fein, ie. Republican Sinn Fein.

Not that it really matters.

Provo = member of Provisional IRA (now defunct)

Because James McLean does not want to play for NI he, like Shane Duffy, is a Provo.

Therefore any northern nationalist who does not wish to play for NI is a member of the Provisional IRA!

Dear oh dear..

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 2:49 PM

In any case the party is referred to as Sinn Fein without the prefix unlike Republican Sinn Fein which used the prefix to distinguish itself.

Sometimes.

http://www.sinnfein.org/index2.html

What's the problem?

Member of Provisional Sinn Fein = Provo.

Supporter of Provisional Sinn Fein = Provo supporter.

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 2:51 PM

Therefore any northern nationalist who does not wish to play for NI is a member of the Provisional IRA!

That's some leap of logic.

However:

Supporter of Provisional Sinn Fein = Provo supporter.

It's not rocket science.

Sullivinho

09/08/2011, 3:10 PM

Sunderland move confirmed (http://www.safc.com/news/20110809/mcclean-completes-sunderland-move_2256213_2414116)

Onwards to page 5!

cufc champions

09/08/2011, 3:17 PM

Sometimes.

http://www.sinnfein.org/index2.html

What's the problem?

Member of Provisional Sinn Fein = Provo.

Supporter of Provisional Sinn Fein = Provo supporter.
Why would any Irish Republican want to for ye, with an attitude like that.
Onwards and upwards hopefully every kid in Derry and Belfast and other areas of the 6 counties of republican persuasion declares for us if given the opportunity to play for Northern Ireland.

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 3:34 PM

Why would any Irish Republican want to for ye, with an attitude like that.
Onwards and upwards hopefully every kid in Derry and Belfast and other areas of the 6 counties of republican persuasion declares for us if given the opportunity to play for Northern Ireland.

You tell me why any Irish Republican would want to play for Northern Ireland - it's really quite baffling?

An Irish Republican would surely want to play for the Republic Of Ireland - the clue is in "Republican".

Any true Irish Republican would be going against Irish Republican idealology to play for Northern Ireland - the IFA being a British Association, as per FIFA Statutes.

Perhaps it's time for the IFA to assume that Irish Republicans' default position is to want to play for the Republic of Ireland?

If an eligible Irish Republican subsequently decides to go against his political principles, he could contact the IFA and let them know that he is interested in playing for Northern Ireland - that makes sense, doesn't it?

I agree with you - the sooner those of a "republican persuasion" decide the live up to their "republican" credentials/principles, and reject any Northern Ireland call up (at any age group) the better. They shouldn't sully their Irish Republican credentials by accepting a call up for "The occupied Six".

Strange thing for an Irish Republican to be representing, let alone giving credance to, Northern Ireland.

Those players, of whatever persuasion/background, who want to play for Northern Ireland are the players Northern Ireland fans want to see in the emerald green of Northern Ireland.

PS: It wasn't me who expressed support for Provisional Sinn Fein on my Facebook page.

PPS: There are no circumstances whatsoever under which I would play for any team representing the Republic of Ireland, inspite of my eligibility to do so. I would leave that honour to someone for whom it was their boyhood dream to represent the Republic Of Ireland.

Carrigaline

09/08/2011, 4:04 PM

Ah jeez, not this again.

The sooner we have a non-sectarian island of Ireland team, the better. If rugby can have an all-Ireland league and team without killing each other, then soccer can too.

The Fly

09/08/2011, 4:08 PM

The sooner we have a non-sectarian island of Ireland team, the better. If rugby can have an all-Ireland league and team without killing each other, then soccer can too.

Ah jeez, not this again.

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 4:08 PM

Ah jeez, not this again.

The sooner we have a non-sectarian island of Ireland team, the better. If rugby can have an all-Ireland league and team without killing each other, then soccer can too.

Ah jeez, not this again.

There is an "All Ireland" team - it is operated by the FAI. I'm sure most of it's supporters would consider it "a non sectarian island of Ireland team".

Anyone from this island can choose to play for it.

Please respect the choice of those who don't, and who want to play for Northern Ireland.

dantheman

09/08/2011, 4:32 PM

Only way around this is for the FAI to bite the bullet and set up proxy training camps in Belfast & Derry (ie not under the FAI banner itself, but under a company that will follow the same FAI training manual). It should put an end to the matter once and for all.

Funding from Stormont should be made available for the camp. I am sure that Derry City and one of the Belfast Clubs would be happy to get involved in such a project.

The Fly

09/08/2011, 4:36 PM

Funding from Stormont should be made available for the camp.

That's just taking the ****!

Carrigaline

09/08/2011, 4:43 PM

Only way around this is for the FAI to bite the bullet and set up proxy training camps in Belfast & Derry (ie not under the FAI banner itself, but under a company that will follow the same FAI training manual).Sorry, but that's ridiculous. These kids are Northern Irish citizens, their parents pay taxes to the United Kingdom, which go towards providing for facilities. The FAI have no business whatsoever in setting up seperate training camps.

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 4:45 PM

Only way around this is for the FAI to bite the bullet and set up proxy training camps in Belfast & Derry (ie not under the FAI banner itself, but under a company that will follow the same FAI training manual). It should put an end to the matter once and for all.

Another way round it would be for the FAI to locate "camps" in Dundalk & Donegal, for example - hardly out of the way for any Northern Irish lads to get too.

That way there's no need for "proxy" anything.

OwlsFan

09/08/2011, 4:57 PM

Hold on to your keyboards everyone as this thread becomes the scene of the same old arguments! Good on you James.

You were right.

dantheman

09/08/2011, 5:04 PM

Another way round it would be for the FAI to locate "camps" in Dundalk & Donegal, for example - hardly out of the way for any Northern Irish lads to get too.

That way there's no need for "proxy" anything.

Dundalk is a bit of a drive from Belfast in fairness.

How about the grounds of Stormont? It would be a good place, I see there was an Edward Carson hurling tournament there a few days ago.

Failing that we continue as we do now, the Public funded IFA training ALL kids from NI who then get to choose at an appropriate age their international career (with no whinging from OWC fans!)

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 5:07 PM

Dundalk is a bit of a drive from Belfast in fairness.

Yer arse - it's an hours drive.

The Fly

09/08/2011, 5:07 PM

Dundalk is a bit of a drive from Belfast in fairness.

How about the grounds of Stormont? It would be a good place, I see there was an Edward Carson hurling tournament there a few days ago.

Failing that we continue as we do now, the Public funded IFA training ALL kids from NI who then get to choose at an appropriate age their international career (with no whinging from OWC fans!)

I take it you're on a wind-up?

dantheman

09/08/2011, 5:08 PM

Yer arse - it's an hours drive.

Most of the underage kids in Belfast don't drive

Carrigaline

09/08/2011, 5:08 PM

That way there's no need for "proxy" anything.
There's no need to even change the existing setup either.

dantheman

09/08/2011, 5:17 PM

There's no need to even change the existing setup either.

That was my second suggestion. But the OWC fans whinging has to stop

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 5:18 PM

Failing that we continue as we do now, the Public funded IFA training ALL kids from NI who then get to choose at an appropriate age their international career (with no whinging from OWC fans!)

"Appropriate age" being when they realise it was their "boyhood dream" to play for the South.

By the way, I suspect you have little understanding of where IFA income (or, indeed, that of the Northern Ireland Executive) is generated.

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 5:19 PM

Most of the underage kids in Belfast don't drive

They can get a lift - or a bus.

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 5:20 PM

But the OWC fans whinging has to stop

What does it matter if they whinge or don't whinge?

dantheman

09/08/2011, 5:20 PM

"Appropriate age" being when they realise it was their "boyhood dream" to play for the South.

By the way, I suspect you have little understanding of where IFA income (or, indeed, that of the Northern Ireland Executive) is generated.

It largely comes from the English taxpayer who have to maintain your little state.

But some of it comes from the taxpayers of NI, so nationalist taxpayers have the right to see their taxes appropriately spent on their team

The Fly

09/08/2011, 5:21 PM

Most of the underage kids in Belfast don't drive

Have you been to West Belfast? ;)

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 5:21 PM

There's no need to even change the existing setup either.

In what regard?

Carrigaline

09/08/2011, 5:26 PM

They can get a lift - or a bus.
Or else they can stay where they are, play for whoever they want to play for, and then make their permanent decision when they're called up for a competitive senior international.

Do you really expect FIFA to tear up the statute books just because Northern Ireland are driving Catholic players away from their national team?

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 5:27 PM

It largely comes from the English taxpayer who have to maintain your little state.

That's nearly right - it largely comes from mainland UK taxpayers, who help to maintain this integral constituent part of the United Kingdom. The joys of Union.

Who is maintaining the Republic Of Ireland nowadays? Germans, is it? - whoever it is, ask them for a rap towards your "camps".

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 5:33 PM

Or else they can stay where they are, play for whoever they want to play for, and then make their permanent decision when they're called up for a competitive senior international.

Do you really expect FIFA to tear up the statute books just because Northern Ireland are driving Catholic players away from their national team?

Why not make their decision as soon as their "boyhood dream" dawns on them?

I accept the FIFA Statutes - I thought "Catholic" players (don't know why you brought that up!) were choosing to play for the South because it was their "boyhood dream" to do so?

I haven't heard any player making the switch declare that they did so because they were "drove out" by the IFA on account of their religion - I know Duffy mumbled something about being a "Catholic" - but not that he was drove out. Have you?

SkStu

09/08/2011, 5:46 PM

McLeans name hasnt been mentioned on this page until now. There is an eligibility thread for this rubbish.

Carrigaline

09/08/2011, 5:49 PM

Why not make their decision as soon as their "boyhood dream" dawns on them?
Firstly, this is one player said it was his "boyhood dream". Secondly, a 14 or 15 year old child shouldn't be forced into making a decision on who to play for.

I haven't heard any player making the switch declare that they did so because they were "drove out" by the IFA on account of their religion - I know Duffy mumbled something about being a "Catholic" - but not that he was drove out. Have you?Look, there is obviously a serious problem in the Northern Ireland setup. If it was the odd player declaring for the Republic, you could put it down to him being a Republican. As it stands, it's tens of players now at this stage. All these players cannot possibly be "provo supporters", or whatever you want to call them.

Is there anyone in the IFA who is asking the question as to why this happening? Is anything being actively considered to try and keep Catholic players in the fold?

SwanVsDalton

09/08/2011, 5:58 PM

McLeans name hasnt been mentioned on this page until now. There is an eligibility thread for this rubbish.

And McClean's name hasn't been mentioned until now either...:p

dantheman

09/08/2011, 6:08 PM

McLeans name hasnt been mentioned on this page until now. There is an eligibility thread for this rubbish.

Who the hell wants to talk about McLean? This thread is about training camps in Stormont

Charlie Darwin

09/08/2011, 6:22 PM

I think we might need to set aside a couple of pages to debate the spelling of his name.

Not Brazil

09/08/2011, 6:24 PM

Firstly, this is one player said it was his "boyhood dream". Secondly, a 14 or 15 year old child shouldn't be forced into making a decision on who to play for.
Look, there is obviously a serious problem in the Northern Ireland setup. If it was the odd player declaring for the Republic, you could put it down to him being a Republican. As it stands, it's tens of players now at this stage. All these players cannot possibly be "provo supporters", or whatever you want to call them.

Is there anyone in the IFA who is asking the question as to why this happening? Is anything being actively considered to try and keep Catholic players in the fold?

McClean's the only one, is he?

Perhaps you should check out the comments of other "switchers" upon their switch.

What do you think the "serious problems" are in the Northern Ireland set up that is causing McClean et al to switch?

I believe those switching are doing so because they want to - their preference is to play for the South. Do you disagree? Do you think their real preference is to play for Northern Ireland, but they are being "drove out", and are having to go to their second choice ie. the South?

I understand there are window dressing measures being taken by the IFA to try and address the switching issue - enter Gerry Armstrong and his merry band of child minders.

Personally, I'd like to encourage players whose "boyhood dream" it is to play for the South, to do so at the earliest opportunity.

By the way, we're not talking about 14 and 15 year old kids - that's a whole different ballgame.

PS. I genuinely don't give a fiddlers where a player puts his X on a ballot paper, or says his prayers - however, I want to see players whose "boyhood dream" is to play for Northern Ireland forming the cornerstone of Northern Ireland representative sides. Players with real pride in the shirt they've been honoured with.