Champions League 2011/12

[Closed Account 2]

Here is the draw for the final qualification round, if they win these, the teams go to the group stage:

Champion Path
Wisla Krakow v Apoel Nicosia
Maccabi Haifa v Genk
Dinamo Zagreb v Malmo FF
FC Copenhagen v Plzen
BATE v Sturm Graz

Non-champion Path
Odense BK v Villarreal
FC Twente v SL Benfica
Arsenal v Udinese
Bayern München v FC Zurich
Lyons v Rubin Kazan

[superfrank]

Copenhagen vs. Plzen is the most interesting tie in the champion's path. I think Plzen could do it, they've won all four of their European games so far and beat Rosenborg 4-2 (including a 1-0 away win) to get here. Copenhagen scraped by Rosenborg at this stage last year.

Arsenal vs. Udinese is the most interesting one in the non-champion's path but Twente vs. Benfica is probably the most evenly balanced.

[culloty82]

Wouldn't rule out Udinese, they still have di Natale, but Sanchez will be a major loss. It's been over a decade since a Polish team qualified, so would be refreshing to see Wisla qualify, likewise think Solna were the last Swedish team in the competition, seems that was in 2000.

[Stevo Da Gull]

I would fancy Arsenal a lot more if Van Persie weren't suspended for the first leg. Still though, I expect to see them in the group stages.

Twente-Benfica should be a good one, I fancy Benfica to come through.
Would be nice to see Malmo go through too.

[OwlsFan]

That Arsenal team, compared to their teams of just a few years ago, looked terribly lightweight. I know they were missing a few players but they need more than 2 signings. They need about 4 to seriously challenge for any trophy this year. Udinese didn't look a bad side. Speaking of how the "mighty" have fallen, I kept channel hopping to the scores on Sky for the Championship/Division One games. Bury 2 Sheff Wed 1. Sigh.....

[BonnieShels]

The mighty?

The patronizing of Udinese is really starting to grate. The talk of Crisis at the Emirates is quite stunning today.

Both teams that played last night finished fourth in their respective national leagues.

Arsenal's record was 19-11-8/72:43
Udinese's was 20-6-12/65:43
Arsenal's top scorer was van Persie with 18.
Udinese's was di Natale with 28.

This divine right bull from England is really starting to annoy me.

Other than Arsenal's history there's nothing to say that they should have gone out there and comfortably beaten Udinese.

The performance was abject, yes, but it was their second competitive game of this season and Udinese did what an Italian team does best and defended resolutely and a little high up the pitch. Arsenal were always going to win this by the odd goal or draw. They have no bite at all.

Rant over.

[Dodge]

Udinese did what an Italian team does best and defended resolutely and a little high up the pitch

Presumably you dind't see the game. udinese are not a typical Italian team

[BonnieShels]

Presumably you dind't see the game. udinese are not a typical Italian team

I watched about an hour in total either side of ht and that was my reading and mistakenly, it appears, made a judgement on that.

That does not really negate anything else of the point that was made.

[Dodge]

I didn't argue against anything else you said.

[BonnieShels]

I know. That wasn't meant to appear as a criticism of your comment, merely reiterating that the English media hyperbole is unwarranted.

[Closed Account 2]

I hope for the sake of the football watching public Rubin turn it around against Lyon. More Russian teams mean more live matches (with the 17:30 kick off in Russia) to watch. :)

I see Villareal are in a spot of bother, 1-0 down to Odense, if they cant turn it around there will only be 3 Spanish teams in the CL, like last year with Sevilla going out to Braga.

[OwlsFan]

I have to say I thought Arsenal would struggle last night but they won comfortably in the end, albeit aided by a great penalty save. I wonder does Pat Rice actually do anything other than sit and listen to Wenger's rants ;) ? It's like as if his only purpose is to sit mutely as Wenger blows his top.

As an aside, despite the "all important away goal" according to every TV commentator, none of the 10 qualifying games was won on the away goals rule.

[superfrank]

As an aside, despite the "all important away goal" according to every TV commentator, none of the 10 qualifying games was won on the away goals rule.
The first goal for Arsenal last night made a big difference to their situation. It meant that Udinese had to score two to get anything from the game, instead of just the one needed to win or just settling at 1-0 and going to extra-time/penos. It took a lot of pressure of Arsenal. They could've conceded one more and still be safe. Granted, it didn't matter in the end, but, psychologically, it's bound to have an effect on the players. Maybe that's why Arsenal were able to get their second?

Away goals do make a difference.

EDIT: I reckon Plzen could prove to be a tricky side. Won all their games in Europe so far and beat two of the better known, lesser European sides home and away.

[Hibs4Ever]

EDIT: I reckon Plzen could prove to be a tricky side. Won all their games in Europe so far and beat two of the better known, lesser European sides home and away.



Plzen were class last night and were by far the better team in both games against Copenhagen, as you said, have won all 6 games so far, Horvath, Pilar and Bakos playing amazing for them too. Hopefully they get a good draw today, they fully deserve it

[culloty82]

Trabzonspor replace Fenerbahce due to the match-fixing scandal. Probably won't happen, but would be useful for English teams to get the toughest possible group draws if they are really to test Barcelona and Real this season.

[Dodge]

A Group consisting of Barcelona, AC MIlan, Man City, Borrussia Dortmund is possible (and very appealing)

[BonnieShels]

That would be an incredible group.

[SwanVsDalton]

Man City for fifty/fifty for ending up in that group - but came out with Bayern Munich and Villareal instead.

Man Utd get Benfica, Basle and Otelul Galati, for my money the weakest seeds from pot 2 and 3 as well as one of the weaker, if not weakest, from 4. Is it just me or do they almost always get a handy group?

[Closed Account 2]

A
Bayern
Villareal
Man City
Napoli

B
Inter
CSKA Moscow
Lille
Trabzonspor

C
Man Utd
Benfica
Basel
Otelul

D
Real Madrid
Lyon
Ajax
Dinamo Zagreb

E
Chelsea
Valencia
Leverkusen
Genk

F
Arsenal
Marseilles
Olympiakos
Dortmund

G
Porto
Shakhtar Donetsk
Zenit
Apoel Nicosia

H
Barcelona
Milan
Bate Borisov
Plzen

[bennocelt]

A
Bayern
Villareal
Man City
Napoli

B
Inter
CSKA Moscow
Lille
Trabzonspor

C
Man Utd
Benfica
Basel
Otelul

D
Real Madrid
Lyon
Ajax
Dinamo Zagreb

E
Chelsea
Valencia
Leverkusen
Genk

F
Arsenal
Marseilles
Olympiakos
Dortmund

G
Porto
Shakhtar Donetsk
Zenit
Apoel Nicosia

H
Barcelona
Milan
Bate Borisov
Plzen

[culloty82]

Incidentally, in a follow-up to the Turkish story, Fenerbahce will now apply to be demoted.

[geysir]

The competition (in earnest) start tonight. I was looking forward to watching the Barca v Milan game on an actual tv but in their minuscule wisdom, TV3 are showing Dortmund v Arsenal. Who TF would want to watch that over the other game? Is the default option option, if there is an EPL team in any shape or form, competing in the CL, then Irish tv are duty bound to give it priority?
It's back to the computer screen this evening.

[BonnieShels]

The competition (in earnest) start tonight. I was looking forward to watching the Barca v Milan game on an actual tv but in their minuscule wisdom, TV3 are showing Dortmund v Arsenal. Who TF would want to watch that over the other game? Is the default option option, if there is an EPL team in any shape or form, competing in the CL, then Irish tv are duty bound to give it priority?
It's back to the computer screen this evening.


Me actually. For the German team involved. I'm sure that's the thinking in TV3 as well I'd say.

[BonnieShels]

Delighted with that equaliser.

[BonnieShels]

Just saw Milan's. Delighted with both equalisers.

The lads on Setanta going on like Milan are some two bit operation from Georgia.

[geysir]

2 goals was a miraculous return for a Milan team who hardly ventured further than their own penalty spot, all game. A brilliant assist from Messi for Barca's first. Later he was called offside after he collected the ball just in front of the goalie and managed to go around him with the ball, in half the space that you'd get in a telephone box.

[BonnieShels]

Oh I watched the highlights, Barca were clearly the better team, just the patronizing of Milan is a new one on me.

[geysir]

Milan have the knack of defending deep in their area, expending the minimum amount of energy, it was quite fascinating to watch. No headless chicken, panic station stuff chasing Barca players all over the pitch.

[Closed Account 2]

Guardianistas might label the best team in the history of football, but they seem utterly incapable or unwilling to defending corners.

No doubt some puerile journalists (e.g. Sid Lowe or Henry Winter) will say, "oh who needs to defend corners if you have attackers as good as Messi".

[BonnieShels]

And they have Pedro.

[geysir]

Yes, Edmundo oh wise one, however, the purile Sid Lowe did highlight that Barca may live to regret not signing a centre half, especially considering last night's game, where an injured Pique didn't play and Puyol only just returning from knee surgery, was used as a sub for 30 mins.
As it stands now, Barca are light in central defense, but when Pique and Puyol are both fit, Barca are about 5 light years ahead of the opposition.
If only those inept coaches/managers in the opposition teams like Madrid, Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, could implement those tactics that could expose Barca and beat them :rolleyes:

[BonnieShels]

Didn't the manager of Madrid manage to do so?

[Closed Account 2]

Didn't the manager of Madrid manage to do so?

Oh you mean that Inter beat them in CL in 2010 ? Oh you see that doesn't count, because Barca should have had a penalty, a goal was wrongly dissallowed, and Inter's goal was offside in the San Siro, and there was an ash cloud which meant Barca had to take the bus, and Barca had to play in Orange (which they are not used to), and well you see Inter are team with huge physical players like Lucio and Julío Cesar and they're too big and too defensive it's not proper football, Johan would never approve, and it's unfair that they didn't do a Villareal (just give up on winning the ball and let Barca play through them)....


About Barca's injuries last night, they may have had Pique and Alexes Sanchis out, but Milan had Ibrahimovic and Flamini out too, injuries generally even themselves out for these big teams with strong squads. Not having a strong enough squad (or if you like not having defensive players versatile enough to play at center back) is a sign of weakness, and I suspect it will be exploited by other teams if it isnt remedied.

[BonnieShels]

Inter's performance in that second leg was masterful and it was one of my all time favourite performances from any team.

Someone this year will park the bus like Milan did last night and we will be free of the Tyrannical reign of that cultural institution, I mean, soccer club of Barcelona.

[geysir]

Bonnie, only the Dark Lord himself, Mourinho, can park a bus like that, that might work one time in five and with Barca missing 25 out of 25 shots on goal.
I'm watching the Bayern v Man City game on a superb feeder stream, loud crowd noise but no commentary. It's a cracking one sided game

[geysir]

The commentator (dutch) has come back from his long smoke break.

[BonnieShels]

They actually won that match 1-0 don't forget. Still wonderful.

Was watching some of Bayern v Man City, love how they are dominating. ManCity are like frightened cats.

Listening to the last word today, the funny thing, well it wasn't funny, I nearly crashed because I rolled my eyes so much, but Cas thought that ManCity would beat Bayern and that the German League was weak.

Jaysus!

[geysir]

The second half is another story.
I might just switch over and focus on the tv game and have a closer gander at the Man U defense being ripped apart by (cough splutter) Basle,
is the baldy guy, the tube ticket toting ex-Spurs manager still with them?

[geysir]

Man u are struggling to keep basle out, the camera focussed on saviour Berbatov for about 30 seconds there in the stands, I think he was reading a book.

Ribery loses the ball again, they should have signed McGeady.

[geysir]

Basle in the lead now. Our old mate Andy Fry.

[BonnieShels]

I've resorted to PES and my 14th season with Nottingham Forest.

[geysir]

??
Earth to Bonnie.

[geysir]

They have 'Fergie time' in the CL?
I didn't know that,
3 mins injury time plus 2 mins20secs Fergie time

[pineapple stu]

Basle, is the baldy guy, the tube ticket toting ex-Spurs manager still with them?
Nah; Christian Gross was sacked last year after a decade in charge.

Great game between United and Basel (a pox on you for calling them Basle, geysir! It's a German-speaking city). Have had a soft spot for Basel for years; was well happy to see them not just draw, but rip United apart time and again. Had their forwards been on form, they'd have hammered United. Mad stuff.

[BonnieShels]

??
Earth to Bonnie.

Yeah. I get salmon fever when I've too many channels to watch.

In all seriousness, I wasn't in the humour of sitting here watching what I thought were going to be 2 insanely onesided second-halfs.

Did switch over to Old Trafford eventually.

[old git]

Nah; Christian Gross was sacked last year after a decade in charge.

Great game between United and Basel (a pox on you for calling them Basle, geysir! It's a German-speaking city). Have had a soft spot for Basel for years; was well happy to see them not just draw, but rip United apart time and again. Had their forwards been on form, they'd have hammered United. Mad stuff.

if basel manager had been more brave and left forwards on instead of taking them off at 3-2 i would have fancied them to score again and win game.

[legendz]

It looked like being a bad night all round for the clubs of Manchester of the UK's southern league. As it was the Swiss could not hang on. Well done to the Germans. Some laugh about the Argentinian who would not come on. Disgrace as well though. How many times the South Dublin Rovers budget is that player on?

[geysir]

if basel manager had been more brave and left forwards on instead of taking them off at 3-2 i would have fancied them to score again and win game.

The BasEL manager left his forwards on until the last minute when they were replaced by other forwards.
The team just dropped back in unison to defend the lead.
They looked comfortable until the sight of a Berbatov uncoordinated attempt at a diving header, probably unnerved them slightly.
Overall a very impressive display by Basel, with a bit more belief they would have deservedly taken all three points.

[Stevo Da Gull]

They actually won that match 1-0 don't forget. Still wonderful.

Was watching some of Bayern v Man City, love how they are dominating. ManCity are like frightened cats.

Listening to the last word today, the funny thing, well it wasn't funny, I nearly crashed because I rolled my eyes so much, but Cas thought that ManCity would beat Bayern and that the German League was weak.

Jaysus!

Tony Cascarino makes Paul Merson look like a god of punditry.

[BonnieShels]

Tony Cascarino makes Paul Merson look like a god of punditry.

Not far off there.

Funny I was thinking today about what pundits or commentators I respect and value the opinion of and...

well there's not many.