View Full Version : SPA Players Unhappy
sullanefc
02/08/2011, 7:55 PM
Don't know what bonuses they were promised but they obviously feel let down.
http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/6317/
Promised none as none in their contracts (we werent in Europe when most signed). Asked for some money as they would need time off from their jobs and had holidays booked.
Club wouldnt respond to them and unfortunatlety its come to the above. Mahon unhappy club aint doing **** about it and well aware of the above.
Ezeikial
02/08/2011, 8:44 PM
Club wouldnt respond to them and unfortunatlety its come to the above.
It would be strange in the extreme if the club simply refused to respond to the proposals. It seems from the players statement that perhaps the club did respond but not to the players satisfaction.
Following a written proposal concerning loss of earnings and European bonuses on Monday 25 July 2011 we have not received a satisfactory response from the board of St Patrick’s Athletic Football Club. Despite numerous requests the club has refused to get into any meaningful discussions with the players and its representatives the PFAI.
Perhaps the club declined to get involved in discussions with the PFAI?
I have the feeling that things are not completely as they appear from this statement. Surely Euro bonuses were sorted out before the 2nd leg of their 3rd Euro tie?
There is no euro bonus, club wont talk to the players about one.
Club won't take 'meaningfully' about it.
Club insiders say players were told it'd be discussed after Europe.
kdjaC
02/08/2011, 10:07 PM
Other club insiders say we made 319K(inc ticket sales) so far from the Euro run which was told to the players thats next years wages(way to motivate the team). We borrowed for kazaks but on the strength of UEFA monies paid in November the loan will be paid by Dec. We have 0 revenue coming from anything other than tickets and shop. We are not even bothering to looking for matchday or Euro Sponsors, we got Investec via charity from Special Ks mates. Its like a slow moving train wreck with super Euro results and ****ing awesome league performances. I reckon we have around 8 days left till we truly truly ****ed, if Pete walks then...jesus :(
Now where do i stick my head in the sand? is there a specific LOI type of sand for this or will any sand do ?
Ezeikial
02/08/2011, 11:58 PM
Other club insiders say we made 319K(inc ticket sales)
Seems unlikely!
3 Rounds of Prize Money @ €90k plus €10k prep = €280k (which wont be seen till end of the year) plus Ticket sales (say €60k) over the 3 games.
The travel to away games must be well in excess of €100k (probably closer to €150k)
SkStu
03/08/2011, 12:55 AM
I reckon we have around 8 days left till we truly truly ****ed, if Pete walks then...jesus :(
sorry man, not sure what you mean by this? Did you mean financially?
Now where do i stick my head in the sand? is there a specific LOI type of sand for this or will any sand do ?
any sand will do. The denser the sand, the better.
Spudulika
03/08/2011, 5:16 AM
This sounds remarkably like what happened with Samara 2 years ago. They came to Dublin under a cloud and left under one too. If there is nothing in the contracts, then the club are in the right. The PFAI have nothing to talk about, though they will posture and preen and end up causing more trouble. I am certain the club will "sort out" the players in some way, though this kind of nonsense is going to put an even darker hue on the LOI.
passerrby
03/08/2011, 8:33 AM
Players are unconcerned with clubs survival only there own pocket tell them to **** off
marinobohs
03/08/2011, 8:56 AM
Dissapointing that this type of crap is raising its head again (remember something similar last season at Bohs). Surely these things can be clarified BEFORE starting european campaign ? Again LOI shooting itself in the foot from a PR perspective :rolleyes:
Our efforts in the UEFA Europa League over the past six weeks have not been properly recognised by the club and we are deeply disappointed with the club’s lack of acknowledgement of our achievements based on our status as part-time players.
What the hell? You signed a contract with a football club to pay football. They've upheld their end of the bargain now shut the f*** up and get on with it.
In fairness some players are out of pocket as they had to take unpaid leave for the European games. I certainly don't want to see anyone out of pocket playing for Pats
Just the timing, and the way its been handled (by both sides) that needs questioning
pineapple stu
03/08/2011, 9:19 AM
I like the picture with the article - players sucking their thumbs. Seems a teensy bit appropriate.
Knew what we were doing, getting rid of all those players last year...
marinobohs
03/08/2011, 9:44 AM
What the hell? You signed a contract with a football club to pay football. They've upheld their end of the bargain now shut the f*** up and get on with it.
I get your point but doubt any contract contained the level of commitment Pats players had to face in recent weeks (Iceland, Kazaghstan, Ukraine). That is however the luck of the draw and was always possible. The PFAI (especially given the predominent part time nature of the game here) should address the problem - possibly by the FAI retaining some of the prize money to compensate verifiable loss of earnings ?
It is known that teams will play in europe and possible dates (never need more than two dates at Bohs :() so it should be possible - at club or assosiation level - to prempt this perrenial issue.
The complication there is that some players signed a contract before we knew we were in Europe. It was only in February that fingal went bust
Spudulika
03/08/2011, 10:02 AM
I think all of us can understand where both sides are coming from, players are not going to simply play for the joy of playing and for a foreign adventure, they want to be paid and rightly so. However there is an element of - think yerself lucky boys. They're getting paid, will continue to get paid and this should, in most circumstances, be enough to be getting on with. What I question is the inclusion of the PFAI in all of this and the strike threat. Especially making it public. As MB mentioned, this is the LOI shooting itself in the foot (or members doing so). Yet we ask why the media looks at Irish football in a bad light.
marinobohs
03/08/2011, 10:08 AM
I think all of us can understand where both sides are coming from, players are not going to simply play for the joy of playing and for a foreign adventure, they want to be paid and rightly so. However there is an element of - think yerself lucky boys. They're getting paid, will continue to get paid and this should, in most circumstances, be enough to be getting on with. What I question is the inclusion of the PFAI in all of this and the strike threat. Especially making it public. As MB mentioned, this is the LOI shooting itself in the foot (or members doing so). Yet we ask why the media looks at Irish football in a bad light.
As a representative body the PFAI leave a lot to be desired, constantly playing "catch up" on issues that have happened before. Had this issue been rasied LOI wide, or indeed at any individual club, when the season started there would be genuine sympathy for players situation. The public threat of "industrial action" less than a week before an important european game does nothing (in my opinion) to help their case.
Ezeikial
03/08/2011, 10:22 AM
According to the Indo article the players are considering boycotting the Karpaty match unless their demands are met.
That smells of a PFAI negotiating tactic!
Pats players are morally entitled to being compensated for unpaid leave or for holidays taken from regular jobs, and it would be only right for them to share in any financial success acheived by getting through two rounds.
Boycotting the match with all its resultant consequences is way OTT, and even as an empty threat is poor form.
Longfordian
03/08/2011, 10:37 AM
The PFAI's solicitor Stuart Gilhooly is banging on on Twitter about the players being determined that the match will not go ahead unless there's an agreement.
Spudulika
03/08/2011, 10:39 AM
Ezekial, if there are bonuses written in for European performance (which would be standard in many cases) then fair enough, though the club could show some goodwill. As MB says bringing in the PFAI has not improved matters. I know, MB, that the winding up order on Bohs earlier this year was something that struck close to the bone. I agreed that the players should have been paid what they were due, but the PFAI are not going about anything in a constructive matter. I just hope this finishes quickly and Pats play the game of their lives (like out in Samara) and show themselves up as the good team they are.
marinobohs
03/08/2011, 10:42 AM
The PFAI's solicitor Stuart Gilhooly is banging on on Twitter about the players being determined that the match will not go ahead unless there's an agreement.
....... perhaps he will let the fans that travelled with Pats know where to pick up their "out of pocket" expences :o more waste of money by PFAI, paying that clown to represent them (what do they pay their full time representative for ?)
passerrby
03/08/2011, 10:51 AM
If pats are like most clubs then any cash windfall will be earmarked for creditors who have been waiting in the wings, my guess is there is nothing left for bonus payments that was never agreed in the first place
Maybe players should state before signing if they will be free (at no added expense) to play in euro competitions
Dodge
03/08/2011, 11:02 AM
The PFAI's solicitor Stuart Gilhooly is banging on on Twitter about the players being determined that the match will not go ahead unless there's an agreement.
Don't forget, Liverpool fanatic...
He probably knows that if they boycott the game tomorrow, they get nothing. As Ezekial said, its a scare tactic
Kingdom
03/08/2011, 11:08 AM
Don't want to be out of line here, but surely boycotting the match isn't a realistic option and one that would be cutting their nose to spite their face? I mean if they get a ban in Europe, get the club a fine, lose the monies they've earned, all because of something their not contractually obliged to receive, despite being morally entitled to, then surely the club could take legal action against the players?
Dodge
03/08/2011, 11:15 AM
I'd assume so.
marinobohs
03/08/2011, 12:17 PM
Don't want to be out of line here, but surely boycotting the match isn't a realistic option and one that would be cutting their nose to spite their face? I mean if they get a ban in Europe, get the club a fine, lose the monies they've earned, all because of something their not contractually obliged to receive, despite being morally entitled to, then surely the club could take legal action against the players?
.. not going to happen.Players obviously feel strongly about the matter and have been marched up to the top of the hill. Pats dont appear to be moving so "nuclear option" is threatened. Doubt the players would go that far and pretty definite that FAI would be involved if it were likely/possible.
Still,this type of silliness should be avoided
paul_oshea
03/08/2011, 12:47 PM
There should be only one focus from the club, as a whole, and that is winning tomorrows tie. What a fcuken joke.
Longfordian
03/08/2011, 12:55 PM
Don't forget, Liverpool fanatic...
He probably knows that if they boycott the game tomorrow, they get nothing. As Ezekial said, its a scare tactic
Saw that in his bio all right. Bit of an attention seeker from what I can see, likes to have his name out there and is constantly becoming chairman or president of various committees in the legal world.
Ezeikial
03/08/2011, 4:52 PM
Seems unlikely!
3 Rounds of Prize Money @ €90k plus €10k prep = €280k (which wont be seen till end of the year) plus Ticket sales (say €60k) over the 3 games.
The travel to away games must be well in excess of €100k (probably closer to €150k)
Mark McCadden in the Star has quoted €100k for ticket sales and sponsorship and a whopping €230k for travel.
Based on that, the nett profit is well under €150k rather then the €319k mentioned.
In any case the players have no case for bonuses for the first round qualification as it was last years squad who got them there
de bowez
03/08/2011, 5:43 PM
Saw that in his bio all right. Bit of an attention seeker from what I can see, likes to have his name out there and is constantly becoming chairman or president of various committees in the legal world.
Seemed to be the main instigator in getting Shelley and Grey to issue winding up order last season aswell, was banging on about it on ****ter then aswell.
If Euro bonuses are standard across the league the usual bonuses should be paid imo.
Jicked
03/08/2011, 5:58 PM
I thought it was Shamrock Rovers who were the main instigator behind Shelley and Grey? Looking forward to unveiling those signings before the end of the window.
Don't want to be out of line here, but surely boycotting the match isn't a realistic option and one that would be cutting their nose to spite their face? I mean if they get a ban in Europe, get the club a fine, lose the monies they've earned, all because of something their not contractually obliged to receive, despite being morally entitled to, then surely the club could take legal action against the players?
they could probably only sack them for breach of contract or something like that which would just compound the situation and is a lose/lose for Pats. There is no way they would be successful in a claim for damages against the players or something else in my opinion.
The simple fact of the matter is, as i stated not so long ago, the vast majority of players are absolute c**ts and the PFAI is willing to sink as low as necessary.
Being held to ransom is low. I feel sorry for all Pats fans in all this, except Dodge.
Ezeikial
03/08/2011, 7:11 PM
If Euro bonuses are standard across the league the usual bonuses should be paid imo.
No such thing as standard Euro bonuses - but just watch as McGuinness tries to get that writtan into the standard player contracts
nigel-harps1954
03/08/2011, 8:45 PM
If it were up to me being in some capacity in the clubs travelling to the outer reaches of Europe I'd be asking the FAI for some sort of financial help. Which of course is madness I know but sure it only makes sense.
. I feel sorry for all Pats fans in all this, except Dodge.
We blame him too, no reason just do :)
The Lep
04/08/2011, 1:21 AM
Its bad form from the players, they should have waited till after the euro campaign to start looking for extra few quid.
Charlie Darwin
04/08/2011, 2:47 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/images/2011/0804/1224301817792_1.jpg?ts=1312426390
Kingdom
04/08/2011, 7:41 AM
That's a pretty impressive Martin Cahill impression. Needs to thin the hair out a bit though. And maybe wear a Duffeler.
WoodquayBoy
04/08/2011, 8:50 AM
Not trying to be a WUM, but can someone explain why the Pats players holding the club to ransom this week are not very nice people and the PFAI are accused of sinking low, but when it comes to Galway United, it is the club that is scum and the players and PFAI are dead right to hold the club to ransom? It seems to me that in both instances, the clubs just don't have the cash. Yes I know one is in relaiton to bonuses and the other is simple wages, but if the cash is not there, the cash is not there - Pats players slammed for not putting interests of club first, but United players praised for the same thing
sullanefc
04/08/2011, 9:06 AM
Your dead right WB. A lot of sheep here just going with the flow.
From what I can make out, players have lost earnings due to taking time off work for euro trips. Playing football part time should not cost you money. All clubs (not just SPA) should have agreements in place to cover this scenario. And Pats should cough up here.
As for the cancelled holidays issue, I think the fault lies with the FAI. The mid-season break should not come during the European dates, it should be earlier. But the Super Cup took priority I'm afraid.
pineapple stu
04/08/2011, 9:13 AM
Not trying to be a WUM, but can someone explain why the Pats players holding the club to ransom this week are not very nice people and the PFAI are accused of sinking low, but when it comes to Galway United, it is the club that is scum and the players and PFAI are dead right to hold the club to ransom? It seems to me that in both instances, the clubs just don't have the cash.
I suppose Galway have signed contracts to give the players money and aren't paying (can't pay), whereas the Pat's players don't seem to have any contractual basis for demanding the money. Also, I don't think the Galway players threatened to boycott a game?
I don't think anyone's put Galway United out as scum though. Leeson maybe, but not the club.
From what I can make out, players have lost earnings due to taking time off work for euro trips. Playing football part time should not cost you money. All clubs (not just SPA) should have agreements in place to cover this scenario. And Pats should cough up here.
Pats made an offer, the players rejected it. They had previously accepted the same offer for Iceland. It seems their argument is based on the round we played in, rather than the amount of money they lost. Not all players work either. They are also part of the 'compensation' claim
No one has ever said that the players shouldn't be compensated.
paul_oshea
04/08/2011, 9:20 AM
they could probably only sack them for breach of contract or something like that which would just compound the situation and is a lose/lose for Pats. There is no way they would be successful in a claim for damages against the players or something else in my opinion.
The simple fact of the matter is, as i stated not so long ago, the vast majority of players are absolute c**ts and the PFAI is willing to sink as low as necessary.
Being held to ransom is low. I feel sorry for all Pats fans in all this, except Dodge.
Players have to look after number 1 at the end of the day. The more noise they attracted the more likely they were going to get their way.
That aside, that last line is absoloutely class. :D
sullanefc
04/08/2011, 9:25 AM
Pats made an offer, the players rejected it. They had previously accepted the same offer for Iceland. It seems their argument is based on the round we played in, rather than the amount of money they lost. Not all players work either. They are also part of the 'compensation' claim
No one has ever said that the players shouldn't be compensated.
But did they have to take extra time off for the long trip to Kazakhstan? The more time off, the more compensation, no?
No, they didn't have to take more time off. The amount requested was double that for Iceland (apparently)
WoodquayBoy
04/08/2011, 9:31 AM
I suppose Galway have signed contracts to give the players money and aren't paying (can't pay), whereas the Pat's players don't seem to have any contractual basis for demanding the money. Also, I don't think the Galway players threatened to boycott a game?
I don't think anyone's put Galway United out as scum though. Leeson maybe, but not the club.
Not to boycott a game, but being held to ransom in a different way - next year's licence. And plenty of people have shot United down as a disgrace that shouldn't be allowed operate without understanding/recognising/accepting the difference between the organisation that got us into this mess, and the fan-run committee now working their backsides off to try and get us out of it
In fairness I don't remember anyone (bar the odd Sligo/Dundalk fan) being too criticial of Galway in anything but honoring contracts.
From memory it was practically unanimous in support for the new board, and against Leeson
sullanefc
04/08/2011, 9:35 AM
No, they didn't have to take more time off. The amount requested was double that for Iceland (apparently)
Not sure about this bit. They have to leave a day earlier to get to Kazakhstan.
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