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The Irish Times - Thursday, July 28, 2011Shamrock Rovers posts profit for 2010
WINNING THE league title and hosting Italian football giants Juventus in a glamour European fixture appears to have helped Tallaght-based Shamrock Rovers to post a profit last year.
Latest abridged accounts for Shamrock Rovers FC Ltd show accumulated losses were reduced to 513,692 in the 12 months to the end of November 2010 from 620,570 in the previous year.
This indicates that the club, which is owned by a group of its fans, posted a profit for the year of almost 107,000. Share capital of just more than 500,000 meant the club closed the year with a deficit in its shareholder funds of 63,457.
Shamrock Rovers won the 2010 league title securing a draw against Bray Wanderers on the final day of the season. This bridged a 16-year gap since its previous league win. In addition, it lost the FAI Cup Final on penalties in front of a bumper crowd of 36,000 at the Aviva Stadium. The club had a good run in the Europa League, beating Israeli side Bnei Yehuda and hosting Juventus in front of a full house in Tallaght.
Its successful run has continued this season, with the Hoops winning the All-Ireland Setanta Cup and once again challenging for the league. Earlier this month, Rovers beat FC Flora of Estonia in the Uefa Champions League.
The Hoops last night took on FC Copenhagen in Denmark in the next round of the competition and will host the return leg in Tallaght next Tuesday.
This marks a remarkable turnaround for Irelands most successful club. Rovers was placed into examinership in 2005, owing 2.4 million and was relegated to the First Division. It won promotion back to the top flight in 2006 before moving to a new stadium in Tallaght two years ago.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...301499702.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0728/1224301499702.html)
HulaHoop
28/07/2011, 9:39 AM
Key point from that article is we made an operating profit of €107,000 in 2010. The accumulated loss figures were done to death last year, they mainly date back to 2005 and examinership.
Done to death? To the best of my recollection nobody ever offered anything approaching an explanation for them.
While any profit is good, €107k is not a huge profit considering you had the Juventus game, won the league and made the cup final.
placid casual
28/07/2011, 9:57 AM
Buy yourself some fresh grapes pal.
Did I say something that was inaccurate?
HulaHoop
28/07/2011, 10:07 AM
Done to death? To the best of my recollection nobody ever offered anything approaching an explanation for them.
While any profit is good, €107k is not a huge profit considering you had the Juventus game, won the league and made the cup final.
Our finance director explained it in great detail to the members on our forum when that article from last year about accumulated losses came out.
Uefa prize money isn't paid until the end of the competition.
pineapple stu
28/07/2011, 11:13 AM
Uefa prize money isn't paid until the end of the competition.
Not sure what your point is here? It'd still be in the figures quoted whether or not it's been paid.
Dillonman
28/07/2011, 12:44 PM
You do realise that that profit figure is not the exact amount of money made or held by Rovers. It could be considerably higher or considerably lower.There will be alot of adjustments made to those accounts with the final recommendation of the the auditors as well as certain unrealistic expenses such as depreciation/amortisation of assets and accruals been posted.
pineapple stu
28/07/2011, 12:49 PM
There will be alot of adjustments made to those accounts with the final recommendation of the the auditors
The accounts being quoted from are the audited accounts (post any adjustments), which were filed last week with the CRO.
Done to death? To the best of my recollection nobody ever offered anything approaching an explanation for them.
What I remember was people confusing accumulated losses with debt. The amount of people that thought Rovers lost 600,000 last year was incredible. Even the usual accounts packwolves here..
nigel-harps1954
28/07/2011, 3:36 PM
I'd have to be in agreement with Mr.A on this one regarding the profit levels. For winning the league, having 3-5000 at every home game, getting to the cup final, high profile Europa league game with Juventus, not forgetting a packed house with Real Madrid. Those profit levels you'd imagine should have been a lot higher. It really backs up the question of a severely high expenditure rate.
oldfan
28/07/2011, 3:51 PM
Done to death? To the best of my recollection nobody ever offered anything approaching an explanation for them.
While any profit is good, 107k is not a huge profit considering you had the Juventus game, won the league and made the cup final.
and handed a free publicly funded Stadium at a knock down rent :sarcastic:
Dave_SRFC
28/07/2011, 4:21 PM
I'd have to be in agreement with Mr.A on this one regarding the profit levels. For winning the league, having 3-5000 at every home game, getting to the cup final, high profile Europa league game with Juventus, not forgetting a packed house with Real Madrid. Those profit levels you'd imagine should have been a lot higher. It really backs up the question of a severely high expenditure rate.
Sack the board they're doing a terrible job.
Sack the board they're doing a terrible job.
In fairness, profit in a league winning season, that sort of recklessness is unheard of..
Nesta99
28/07/2011, 5:44 PM
So say Shamrock Rovers are runners up this season, go out of the cup - with reduced prize money anyway, a percentage drop of average attendances. Lose to Copenhagen that figure of €107k would turn negative surely.
I know the above is worse case scenario but remove prize money (as no clubs should factor this really into a budget) well expenditure to income ratio is not great.
number16
28/07/2011, 5:56 PM
i believe the question that these accounts raise (for me) is not whether SDFC are at risk because of their relatively small profit, but whether all the other clubs can survive given how far behind SRFC most are - in terms of facilities, a really loyal fanbase, branding, crowds, new stadium etc.
The SDFC model looks really good, how do we get a competitive league that drives a reasonable profit for most clubs?
I'm not snipping at Rovers, i just worry for the survival of the league, unless we can get more attractive and competitive. If Rovers are and indeed the league are to florish we need profits.............
nigel-harps1954
28/07/2011, 8:20 PM
In fairness, profit in a league winning season, that sort of recklessness is unheard of..
In fairness, wouldn't a Shamrock rovers fan generally be the first to give such same arguments to other teams. If you're going to start dishing out childish remarks at least please prove me wrong first.
Poor Student
28/07/2011, 9:06 PM
It's a funny one, there's two ways of looking at it:
- In the past clubs that would have enjoyed a similar success would have racked up sizeable losses and/or debt in order to achieve it usually leveraging against fixed assets, Rovers on the other hand have achieved great success and managed to turn a profit at the same time.
- On the other hand, as has been pointed out had Rovers narrowly finished second, went out of the cup in the semis and Europe in the previous round would they have posted an unhealthy loss with nothing to show?
Perhaps Rovers are right to use their position of relative strength (good facilities, good crowds and small debt) and spend to take advantage or perhaps they are risking their stability, I suppose time will tell.
DFX or anyone else, I'm being obtuse but could someone explain accumulated loss in layman's terms? How are these losses covered and how do they differ from level of debt?
Longfordian
28/07/2011, 9:28 PM
The losses could be partly directors loans or other members loans from years before they had to be non refundable under the FAI rules couldn't they? Not necessarily money owed to "real" creditors.
DFX or anyone else, I'm being obtuse but could someone explain accumulated loss in layman's terms? How are these losses covered and how do they differ from level of debt?
A setup to fund B ...
B funded by A ...
Therefore B "owes" money to A!
Q.E.D.
pineapple stu
29/07/2011, 8:32 AM
How are these losses covered and how do they differ from level of debt?
If a company lost E500k, but has also had E500k invested in it in share capital, then the cash from the latter balances out the former, and so there isn't actually any money owing to anyone. Normally, share capital is only a nominal amount (E100), so there wouldn't be much difference between the two, but here it seems there's a significant amount of share capital.
Or I suppose in simpler terms - if I give you a present of E500, and you spend it, then you've lost E500, but you aren't in debt to anyone.
In fairness, wouldn't a Shamrock rovers fan generally be the first to give such same arguments to other teams. If you're going to start dishing out childish remarks at least please prove me wrong first.
It's not an entirely childish remark...more of a genuine question..who was the last LOI club to win the league and make a genuine profit? Cork? Boez under Roderick?
not forgetting a packed house with Real Madrid.
iirc The Madrid game wasn't their own - they were just paid an appearance fee, with the promoters hiring the ground, paying the teams etc.
On more general points...
Supporter owned is definitely the way to go, but there's plenty of other clubs that show that in it’s self it isn't the panacea some would suggest, especially when it comes to financial matters.
To me, the profit figure does suggest it would've been fairly touch and go if they'd have broke even, with the scenario's people have put forward earlier. However, there would also be other costs incurred by those runs as well, so maybe that's a little harsh. It'd be interesting to know where they were on the salary cap, but doubt it's broken down.
pineapple stu
29/07/2011, 1:24 PM
The Madrid game was in 2009, not 2010...
nigel-harps1954
29/07/2011, 2:57 PM
The Madrid game was in 2009, not 2010...
My mistake, thought it was 2010. Apologies.
sundance kid
29/07/2011, 4:50 PM
My mistake, thought it was 2010. Apologies.
Its irrelevant what year the madrid game was. We got an appearance fee and sold a few scarves that's all.
SMorgan
29/07/2011, 5:43 PM
Iam absolutely amazed at how low the profit was. If thats all they made lastseason when so much went in the clubs favour then I'd suggest a bit ofhouse-keeping is in order. Those figures don't make the future look to rosie andperhaps their much anticipated domination of the domestic game may notmaterialise.
Dave_SRFC
29/07/2011, 6:36 PM
Are you serious? The club made a profit and won the league and setanta. This is miles more than what the previous champions in the league have done, we didn't throw money on wages as Shels Drogheda and Bohs did previously because as a members run club we don't have the cash to do so...cop on and stop griping. A club wins the league and didn't make a loss for the 1st time in god knows how long and you pick holes in everything about it...saps.
GalwayRed
29/07/2011, 7:56 PM
107000 profit seems pretty good to me. For a start Rovers sold 2500 season tickets or so which means they had that money guaranteed to them from the start. The Juventus game might have brought in some extra cash but I would imagine the trip away to Yehuda in the previous round set the club back a bit. Even if you took out the 100k difference from finishing 1st or 2nd theres still a bit left over. Not to mention the fact that football clubs in general find it hard to turn a profit never mind League of Ireland clubs.
Quadruple1928
30/07/2011, 1:49 AM
To be fair I don't think people are having a go at the profit as such, more so had they not won the league last year, what was it 200k? they would not have posted a 100k profit.
Charlie Darwin
30/07/2011, 1:58 AM
What level of profit would it be acceptable for Rovers to make? It's a fan-owned club - a modest profit is exactly what everyone concerned wants. Excessive profits would mean the board aren't running the club properly.
bullit
30/07/2011, 2:06 AM
Why is the thread here anyway ??
Quadruple1928
30/07/2011, 2:14 AM
Why is the thread here anyway ??
Last year people were saying they made a loss in 09, some of their fans were saying it was crap etc.. now they made a profit they want everyone to know. http://foot.ie/threads/138995-Rovers-Accounts
bullit
30/07/2011, 2:34 AM
Jeez thanks for all the trouble you went to there. I didnt think Shams fans cared for one minute about what is said on this forum so maybe i missed something.They obviously just post when the agenda suits them and not before !!
L.T.F.C.
30/07/2011, 4:23 AM
107k is crap to be honest. If Bohs had pipped them last year, that would have been 100k removed from that. And whatever they got from coming second in the cup... so we're already in the red. Then the massive gates, the sponsorship and that Juve game last year they'd be well fecked up. Nothing to be screaming about at all.
Rovers aren't there to make profits. They're there to win football trophies. They've paid back a bit of debt and won a couple of things. Can't see how any football fan thinks this could possibly be a bad thing
Rovers aren't there to make profits. They're there to win football trophies. They've paid back a bit of debt and won a couple of things. Can't see how any football fan thinks this could possibly be a bad thing
Exactly. An awful lot of rubbish like "what if they hadn't won the league?" and "what about the juventus money?".
Doesn't matter a jot.
Lim till i die
30/07/2011, 4:22 PM
What level of profit would it be acceptable for Rovers to make?
http://www.candy-chrome.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/100-billion-dollars-276x300.jpg
pineapple stu
31/07/2011, 5:05 PM
107k is crap to be honest. If Bohs had pipped them last year, that would have been 100k removed from that. And whatever they got from coming second in the cup... so we're already in the red.
How much did they have to pay in staff bonuses for winning the league? Why haven't you added this back?
It's way too simplistic to look purely at prize money only.
Ezeikial
31/07/2011, 6:19 PM
Unlike most clubs who have won the league in the recent past Shamrock Rovers certainly appear to be well run and and have not gambled their solvency on league success
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