Danny mills' england comments in relation to ireland

[mark12345]

Danny Mills has slammed the English U-21 team for playing like robots (see ESPN article excerpt below). He's right and it seems that the powers that be in English football are finally beginning to wake up and see that they'll never win anything as long as they play hoofball. As much as Irish fans might like to think that our lads play differently in the national team - we don't. We are slaves to the rythm of English football and have been headed down the wrong road for decades. Hopefully the authorities in both England and Ireland will wake up to the fact very soon that we need to be producing a technically skilled footballer for the future.

Mills' comments:

Former England right-back Mills believes the problem is symptomatic of the way players are mollycoddled through the formative stages of their careers, meaning they no longer have the ability to think for themselves on the pitch.

Mills, who was out in Denmark at the tournament covering the games for the media, said: "When these youngsters are playing for England, they are fearful. They seem to be too aware they are under scrutiny. None of those players had the confidence or wherewithal to play and get England through.

"I appreciate they're young and still learning the game. But let's not forget either, they're not playing against senior professionals, they're playing against their peers. Nobody had the ability on the pitch to stand up and say, 'Right, this isn't going well, I'm going to change this and make a difference'.

"That's because academies are now almost creating robotic players, who have had everything done for them from the age of nine. Ever since that age, they've been told what to do and they can't think for themselves.

"It's hard for the players because they've been brought up this way. But we have to change it for the younger generation moving through the system. We have to realise the old English style of football isn't quite good enough to compete at the very highest level.

"That's why we haven't won anything since 1966. We've got to the odd quarter-final but that isn't good enough for a nation like England. The players have got to be able to express themselves out there and the shackles have to be released. If not, it will be a long, long time before we win anything else.

[the bear]

he's right, funny to here it came from danny mills of all people

[French Toasht]

He's spot on.

I played schoolboy football for one of the most successful clubs in Ireland and the ethos at that club was win at all cost and don't worry about the opposition having the ball, just ensure they can't do anything with it.

I noticed a marked difference whenever we went abroad to play international tournaments with other schoolboy teams from around Europe. Their players we so technically gifted and the scorelines between the other teams in the groups were 4-3 and 4-4 etc, whereas our three games ended 0-0. I gather in some countries in Europe, schoolboy teams don't play league matches till about 10 or 11. They spend the first 4 years coaching the technical skills and scorelines etc are unimportant.

The way Irish kids are coached is so wrong. I have seen plenty of kids with so much potential, have their confidence completely shattered by over zealous managers and parents on the sideline berating them for the tiniest mistake made.

Also I specifically remember playing a semi final in a national competition, where we were 2-1 up with about two minutes to go. The opposition had a man clean through on the goals and the cry from the manager to the last defender was "Floor him." He duly did and was sent off. Fouled him just outside the box, conceding a free kick which they failed to convert. The heroes reception that player got at the final whistle will always stick in my mind. Imagine a club that has produced Irish internationals and EPL players endorsing that kind of cynicism and dishonesty in the game? Even as a 14 year old lad, I knew there was something inherently wrong with the way kids are coached here.

[mark12345]

he's right, funny to here it came from danny mills of all people

True. But right nonetheless.

[mark12345]

He's spot on.

I played schoolboy football for one of the most successful clubs in Ireland and the ethos at that club was win at all cost and don't worry about the opposition having the ball, just ensure they can't do anything with it.

I noticed a marked difference whenever we went abroad to play international tournaments with other schoolboy teams from around Europe. Their players we so technically gifted and the scorelines between the other teams in the groups were 4-3 and 4-4 etc, whereas our three games ended 0-0. I gather in some countries in Europe, schoolboy teams don't play league matches till about 10 or 11. They spend the first 4 years coaching the technical skills and scorelines etc are unimportant.

The way Irish kids are coached is so wrong. I have seen plenty of kids with so much potential, have their confidence completely shattered by over zealous managers and parents on the sideline berating them for the tiniest mistake made.

Also I specifically remember playing a semi final in a national competition, where we were 2-1 up with about two minutes to go. The opposition had a man clean through on the goals and the cry from the manager to the last defender was "Floor him." He duly did and was sent off. Fouled him just outside the box, conceding a free kick which they failed to convert. The heroes reception that player got at the final whistle will always stick in my mind. Imagine a club that has produced Irish internationals and EPL players endorsing that kind of cynicism and dishonesty in the game? Even as a 14 year old lad, I knew there was something inherently wrong with the way kids are coached here.

He's (Danny Mills) spot on, and so are you with this assessment French Toast.

Coaches in Ireland (and England) do coach the wrong way. I played for Shelbourne and Home Farm when I lived in Ireland and the ethos (as you correctly point out) is totally devoid of technical skill. Having coached in America, we would play 4 v 4 until the age of 12 and then increase numbers. America, mark my words, is an upcoming power and Ireland will be left behind.

[dr_peepee]

he's right, funny to here it came from danny mills of all people

He's on Newstalk most monday evenings during the season... Not the worst.

[BonnieShels]

Danny Mills talks a lot of sense a lot if the time. Unfortunately no one is grabbing the bull by the horns here. The national academy thread has discussed this.

[geysir]

During the must win game for England v Czech, in the first half the England back 4 were stroking the ball around, comfortable enough despite 2 Czech players closing them down, patient sensible play waiting for the right move. Then there comes a loud shout from Pearce - 'GET IT TO FCK OUT OF THERE'.

[paul_oshea]

I honestly think the weather particularly in Ireland plays a big part to how we play at underage, or at least when I was underage.

[geysir]

With me it was the landscape, made a difference if we were playing uphill or downhill.

[Stuttgart88]

Paul, I thought you were still underage?

[CraftyToePoke]

Also I specifically remember playing a semi final in a national competition, where we were 2-1 up with about two minutes to go. The opposition had a man clean through on the goals and the cry from the manager to the last defender was "Floor him." He duly did and was sent off. Fouled him just outside the box, conceding a free kick which they failed to convert. The heroes reception that player got at the final whistle will always stick in my mind. Imagine a club that has produced Irish internationals and EPL players endorsing that kind of cynicism and dishonesty in the game? Even as a 14 year old lad, I knew there was something inherently wrong with the way kids are coached here.

I dont know, I agree with most of your points, but is there an Italian (for example) last man who would not do the same? Of course, this would involve them letting go of your jersey for long enough to get away on goal in the first place.

[gastric]

There are similarities between this thread and the National Academy one. If this debate continues I promise to keep out of it as I get the feeling i have bored the pants of many with my views!

[jbyrne]

I honestly think the weather particularly in Ireland plays a big part to how we play at underage, or at least when I was underage.

and the pitches. most public pitches in Ireland are a disgrace with little interest from the councils to upkeep them

[BonnieShels]

There are similarities between this thread and the National Academy one. If this debate continues I promise to keep out of it as I get the feeling i have bored the pants of many with my views!


I wouldn't say that. if anyone has an interest in this they will more than take your views on board.

mods should combine.

[Real ale Madrid]

Danny Mills slamming English football for playing like robots? Thats like Danny Dyer slamming producers for all the violence and swearing on TV.

He is right though!

Can't help but get the feeling that England just weren't good enough also - they seemed to pass it around ok against lesser teams in qualifying and the pre-tournament friendlies but were found totally wanting at the finals tournament against superior opposition.

[tetsujin1979]

read an article ages ago about a manager (possibly Wenger) complaining that the weather in England doesn't lend itself to teaching kids about trapping the ball, dribbling techniques, etc, because the amount of wind on the pitches makes the movement of the ball too unpredictable

[Kingdom]

When we're playing at home, if the ball is stroked around at the back for anything more than 30 seconds the crowd gets ancy. It's not something we should be smug about.

[geysir]

No man has the right to fix the boundary of smugness.
It's hard to be humble when it is the coach who is doing the shouting, when it's the great English team with financial back up and player resources infinitely greater than anything Ireland has, when they resemble an incoherent rabble in regards to tactical and technical ability.

[Stuttgart88]

I watched the Dutch U17s struggle against North Korea last night (FIFA U17 WC) , and play a lot of hoofball. We'd have been proud of the Dutch equaliser - a clearance from a CB that was 40 yards in the air, eluded the NK CBs and the Dutch forward latched onto it. Straight out of the GAA manual. The finish was pretty classy though, very similar to Mick Byrne's third goal at Milltown against Dundalk in a 5-0 win, around 1989 I think. (Strange game, Dundalk were the better team.) I'm sure many here remember it :)

[gustavo]

When we're playing at home, if the ball is stroked around at the back for anything more than 30 seconds the crowd gets ancy. It's not something we should be smug about.
Reminds of an arsehole sitting beside me at Rovers vs UCD on Saturday

He was moaning when someone misplaced a pass "these lads can't string two passes together" then when we were playing it around the park doing some patient build-up play he was moaning "get it in the ****ing box for ****s sake"

You can't win with those people, There does seem to be an attitude of getting the ball in the box as soon as possible

[geysir]

I watched the Dutch U17s struggle against North Korea last night (FIFA U17 WC) , and play a lot of hoofball. We'd have been proud of the Dutch equaliser - a clearance from a CB that was 40 yards in the air, eluded the NK CBs and the Dutch forward latched onto it.
Van Gaal would never resort to such tactics.

You did see the Czechs lumping it forward continually in the last 15 mins until they got an equaliser. The Spanish played with the ball firmly on the ground until they got a late equaliser in their u21 sf.
Anyway it's a sign of a good team when they can play good technical football and use their technique to exploit when they have to lump it into the box.

[outspoken]

and the pitches. most public pitches in Ireland are a disgrace with little interest from the councils to upkeep them

I referee in my local league and recently a new astro pitch was opened and the diffrence in standard with the games played on a level astro pitch compared to a boggy downhill pitch is amazing the games played on astro are of a very high temp and extremely high scoring where as on the crap pitch it's slow and usually 1-0

[bennocelt]

I watched the Dutch U17s struggle against North Korea last night (FIFA U17 WC) , and play a lot of hoofball. We'd have been proud of the Dutch equaliser - a clearance from a CB that was 40 yards in the air, eluded the NK CBs and the Dutch forward latched onto it.

Seen the second half of that game alright - jeez was a brutal game and to be fair to the Dutch the Koreans took the sting out of the game by constantly falling around the pitch every 5 mins - shud have had 10 mins extra time not 5!!!!!! Was strange seeing a dutch winger get by a player on the wing and then see that there was no one to pass to at all then beat the player again to go back and try and long ball it into the box where there were about 5 Dutch players waiting for it - total football it was not!
The koreans were woeful, and fell over the ball everytime they got near the Dutch goal - and they had loads of good chances too.
Was thinking of this thread while watching the game wondering that it must be only the Spanish that can play this passing game everyone keeps talking about.:)

[Murfinator]

Its refreshing that the English in general seem to finally be warming to the idea that their national side is absolute garbage. Seems like it only took 20 years of being muck for that to sink in.

[BonnieShels]

I prefer it though that they think its great so we can enjoy the bi-annual car crash.

[Stuttgart88]

Its refreshing that the English in general seem to finally be warming to the idea that their national side is absolute garbage. Seems like it only took 20 years of being muck for that to sink in.I'm not sure Martin Tyler has got the message yet.

[cornflakes]

Most of the English fans/public have got the message but their media continue to talk crap

[French Toasht]

Most of the English fans/public have got the message but their media continue to talk crap

Exactly. Scroll down to the part about "Montenegro should be of no concern to Engand". The sheer arrogance is baffling.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/jun/06/five-things-learned-international-weekend

[bennocelt]

To be fair an England team shud be beating a bad Montenego team - whats wrong with that?

[French Toasht]

Facts don't bear that out though do they?

This is a Montenegro team that is level on points with England and drew with them in Wembley. Its the sheer arrogance of that article particularly in light of the fact that it's written in the immediate aftermath of another poor performance by England against Switzerland.

[bennocelt]

Facts don't bear that out though do they?

This is a Montenegro team that is level on points with England and drew with them in Wembley. Its the sheer arrogance of that article particularly in light of the fact that it's written in the immediate aftermath of another poor performance by England against Switzerland.

U mean the stats. They are a rubbish team (as are England but u would reckon they could muster a decent 11 from the EPL?)
And Switerland were muck too

[The Legend]

Exactly. Scroll down to the part about "Montenegro should be of no concern to Engand". The sheer arrogance is baffling.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/jun/06/five-things-learned-international-weekend

ok... why don't you post the full quote "They should be of no concern to England. They probably will be.".... not quite as arrogant me thinks.

[paul_oshea]

Paul, I thought you were still underage?

yes relative to you.

uphill, downhill, downhill from left to right.

The wet weather and teh wind, where the ball wont go 5 yards along the ground, hoof ball is the only way....

[paul_oshea]

and the pitches. most public pitches in Ireland are a disgrace with little interest from the councils to upkeep them

Thats because outside of dublin anyway most pitches are owned by the clubs.

[paul_oshea]

read an article ages ago about a manager (possibly Wenger) complaining that the weather in England doesn't lend itself to teaching kids about trapping the ball, dribbling techniques, etc, because the amount of wind on the pitches makes the movement of the ball too unpredictable

As usual I'm right, only this time(there is evidence of one) I have an expert in the field, to back me up :D

Double entendre intended.

[Murfinator]

People speak about coaching and whatnot but ultimately I think the reason why the UK produce such bad players is down to culture. British culture is a tabloid culture, that cherishes famous people for fame alone rather than their talent. Its not coincidence the UK is regarded worldwide as having a wide range of the most awful bands ever seen, none of them musically astute; all of them trying to be stars. This is the land that invented the Popstars / X-Factor / American Idol format, a system designed to churn out textbook singers of established songs, a system designed to override the less glamorous but fundamental element of song writing. The part of music which most would regard as the most difficult and the most critical to excellence.

Soccer is the same, oodles of players over there who know the status of a "footballer" and covet it. Many who are fine athletes who do excellent gym work and can follow instructions to a tee, few whose motivation to play for the love of the game is convincing. Very few british players leave their shores for that reason, they know they won't be a star in another country and will be judged far moreso on their technical ability and football intelligence, of which almost all of them are lacking.

It unfortunately trickles into Ireland. To use a comparison the English rugby squad has a very similar mindset to the English soccer squad, the corresponding leagues as well. But the Irish rugby squad has a vastly different mindset, its stronger, galvinised, focused on teamwork and skillsets. These are guys who are coached well through the system and playing the game for no other reason than the love of it. We have no Hensons, Powells, Cipriani or whatnot in this country showing that tabloid culture is present in British Rugby but not in Irish rugby. We have the same deal in GAA as well

The problem for us is how our soccer league remains so heavily influenced by a UK mindset while our other sports don't. Its been said a million times before but having our players playing in other leagues than England and Scotland would benefit us immensely, its nothing but bad news to have our players coached through the ranks in a culture like that.

[Stuttgart88]

Its not coincidence the UK is regarded worldwide as having a wide range of the most awful bands ever seen, none of them musically astute; all of them trying to be stars. I actually think that they have also given the world some of the best rock / pop music too. I think every country has some degree of "talent show" obsession.

I don't live in Ireland, but always seems to notice media coverage of Leinster & Ireland rugby stars at celebrity weddings, queen's dinners etc. The Hensons & Powells of the game in the UK (Welsh, not English btw) are only some examples and are not wholly representative of our rugby culture being better than "theirs". Whose U20 rugby team is in the World Cup Final, while ours might come eighth? Sure our own Trevor Brennan was a flippin' fruitjob too.

I agree that our football playing culture is very similar though. In fairness, it'd be very hard for us to adopt a distinct Eastern European or Latin playing style when our game has been so intertwined with the English game over the generations. It's not just football - our whole society is. Look at what TV shows are popular, and music etc..

[Murfinator]

I actually think that they have also given the world some of the best rock / pop music too. I think every country has some degree of "talent show" obsession.

I don't live in Ireland, but always seems to notice media coverage of Leinster & Ireland rugby stars at celebrity weddings, queen's dinners etc. The Hensons & Powells of the game in the UK (Welsh, not English btw) are only some examples and are not wholly representative of our rugby culture being better than "theirs". Whose U20 rugby team is in the World Cup Final, while ours might come eighth? Sure our own Trevor Brennan was a flippin' fruitjob too.

I agree that our football playing culture is very similar though. In fairness, it'd be very hard for us to adopt a distinct Eastern European or Latin playing style when our game has been so intertwined with the English game over the generations. It's not just football - our whole society is. Look at what TV shows are popular, and music etc..

I'm not really sure I'd believe that, take Munster rugby for example. Its a very, very strong self-contained sporting culture there. Same with Kerry football or Kilkenny hurling. They're uninfluenced by anything but themselves, they have their own style of play that is timeless passing through generations and have been at the top of their sport for so long and will continue to do so in the future. We have a similar culture to England sure, but as we do with the US or Australia as well, I feel like soccer in this country is far more intertwined and influenced by England than it really should be.
I know GAA and Hurling aren't great examples since they aren't professional or played outside this country but rugby really is a great example of how we can breed successful teams and players with their own style unique to the country who aren't inheriting the flaws of our neighbours. Rugby players in Ireland are just so technically better than their equivalent in England, they're trained and coached vastly differently with different philosophies and its plain to see watching them. For a foreigner watching english and Irish players they could be forgiven for thinking they were interchangeable, they're very alike. Which is not necessarily a situation we "have" to be in, since we aren't in other sports is the point I'm trying to make.

If we can't support our own league in this country I think it'd benefit our squad more if they were in better technical leagues than the EPL.

[OwlsFan]

English club sides have done very well in Europe over the years so they must be doing something right.

[paul_oshea]

ya they are full of foreign players....

[Stuttgart88]

Rugby players in Ireland are just so technically better than their equivalent in England, they're trained and coached vastly differently with different philosophies and its plain to see watching them. That hasn't at all been apparent in the U20 WC.


If we can't support our own league in this country I think it'd benefit our squad more if they were in better technical leagues than the EPL. Most of us would prefer to see that alright, but the previous comparison between footy and rugby isn't great. Our best rugby players either play at home or in England, bar some rare exceptions. Where else can they earn a decent living?

Culturally the Irish and English games are similar anyway. The game differs to a degree in France and again in the southern hemisphere, but I don't think the Irish provinces play a vastly different game to the best English clubs, and where they do it's also because of world class imports like Ica Nacewa. We have good structures in Ireland, no doubt, but I think England rugby's structural trough (if it's even that) at the moment is more because of bad governance at RFU level and because the inevitable club vs country conflict is a factor. I say inevitable, because it is inevitable in professional leagues with proper depth - which Ireland doesn't have. We have so far avoided that in Ireland because our elite sides are subsidiary branches of the IRFU. So yes, there are structural disadvantages in English rubgy but I don't think our playing philosophy is much better (or different) to theirs. Our rugby players are just as dependent on the British Isles for their careers as our footballers.

I think it's naive to think that we could wholesale export our footballers to Germany or Italy like we do to the UK.

Personally I think we should change the focus of our underage international sides towards achieving success (however that is benchmarked). The last decade has seen us play U17s at U19 level, U19s at U21 level and U21s at senior level. We have been woefully uncompetitive as a result.

I'm sympathetic to the view that we should work hard on technique and tactical literacy (already underway?) and that the rough & tumble of English football does us no favours. I'm also of the view that Bradys, Gileses and Keanes only come around every so often in a small country, even if we were colonised by Brazil.

[Stuttgart88]

Anyway, I subjected my 5 year old to the English coaching system this morning. It was only his second ever coached football session, in our local park. He started by doing simple exercises but they finished with a "game", with the objective being to encourage passing rather than scoring. (you could only score after completing so many passes).

The kids were divided into 2 groups of 12, and a variation of a six-a-side game was played on 2 small pitches.


At the end, all 24 kids were called up under a tree.

The coach explained what the object of the exercise was, learning to pass to team mates. Then he said that there was one standout example of a guy looking to pass and find space (his words) and he called my little fella up and gave him a medal.

This very proud dad is feeling very positive about English coaching this evening!

[tetsujin1979]

The young lad isn't left footed by any chance?

[Stuttgart88]

No. Does that jeopardise a Tetsujin theory?

[shellyriver]

Seriously, where will this type of guff stop? Its hardly rocket science to pick out of 20 odd young lads whose the best, technically, whose the greediest, the fastest, aware etc. Any young fella worth his salt at this stage of the game will be totally selfish on the ball. He must want the ball, and must want to win. That's all it takes. Technical attributes, touch, formation -- that's all down road.

[Murfinator]

In terms of the under 20's a lot is down to genetics with regards to the southern hemisphere sides. Have the seen the sheer size of the baby boks or all blacks kids, our kids can't compete. They're oceans apart. The Irish kids will bulk up in time, but they can't be expected to compete at that age.

As for why England are doing better, their coaching system is a simple defensive one. Easy to master, difficult to really go anywhere with behind that. The slow lumbering predictable forwards play is rampant throughout the guinness premiership or whatever its called nowadays. I disagree you saying the better english sides could compete technically with the Irish sides, they absolutely could not. Leicester, Bath, Sale etc are all full of bash merchants, big, strong talentless men that make up the core of Englands national team. Northampton tried to play an expansive game last few years and while they're doing ok with it they haven't actually won anything either. Leinsters offloading game at the moment is out of this planet, its more technically astute than anything in this hemisphere and thats not down to Nacewa its down to Sean O Brien and Jamie Heaslip assisted by Sexton practically reinventing the job of his position. Munster equally with a ROG kicking game strangling opposition and the back 3's running angles are beyond anything a premiership side could live with.

I'm not saying English sides haven't had success but the route of that success hasn't been from a strong technical game. Its been from a foundation of doing the basics very very well with a physically very capable group of players. Their forwards are big and tackle hard, their outhalf kicks long and accurately, their wings are incredibly quick. Its simple stuff but difficult for most teams to deal with, the best always will though.
They've never had guys with what you'd call "match intelligence", people like O'Gara or BOD who could do the unorthodox and cut a team open. You could say the same for their soccer team as well, they'll never produce a Messi or an Iniesta. It's not in their culture to develop game intelligence or technical ability.

Again not saying its totally ineffective to train players favouring physicality and discipline over technical ability, just look at what trap is getting out of us. But I think most of us would prefer more technical players available particularly in midfield. The way to do that is to distance ourselves from British coaching systems, have our lads go elsewhere.

[French Toasht]

People speak about coaching and whatnot but ultimately I think the reason why the UK produce such bad players is down to culture. British culture is a tabloid culture, that cherishes famous people for fame alone rather than their talent. Its not coincidence the UK is regarded worldwide as having a wide range of the most awful bands ever seen, none of them musically astute; all of them trying to be stars. This is the land that invented the Popstars / X-Factor / American Idol format, a system designed to churn out textbook singers of established songs, a system designed to override the less glamorous but fundamental element of song writing. The part of music which most would regard as the most difficult and the most critical to excellence.

Soccer is the same, oodles of players over there who know the status of a "footballer" and covet it. Many who are fine athletes who do excellent gym work and can follow instructions to a tee, few whose motivation to play for the love of the game is convincing. Very few british players leave their shores for that reason, they know they won't be a star in another country and will be judged far moreso on their technical ability and football intelligence, of which almost all of them are lacking.

It unfortunately trickles into Ireland. To use a comparison the English rugby squad has a very similar mindset to the English soccer squad, the corresponding leagues as well. But the Irish rugby squad has a vastly different mindset, its stronger, galvinised, focused on teamwork and skillsets. These are guys who are coached well through the system and playing the game for no other reason than the love of it. We have no Hensons, Powells, Cipriani or whatnot in this country showing that tabloid culture is present in British Rugby but not in Irish rugby. We have the same deal in GAA as well

The problem for us is how our soccer league remains so heavily influenced by a UK mindset while our other sports don't. Its been said a million times before but having our players playing in other leagues than England and Scotland would benefit us immensely, its nothing but bad news to have our players coached through the ranks in a culture like that.

Ok I don't know how to multi-quote (can anyone tell me?), but I'm going to try to tease through your points.

As regards your first points, the X-Factor culture you talk about, that exists everywhere now and is not a unique phenomenon to the UK. The Christmas no 1 in Sweden and Denmark will be their winners of pop idol and will have come through an equally manufactured and inorganic process as the British versions. I think British influence on music has been a comparatively positive one. The Britpop era, was the saviour of a forgettable 90s music wise, which was otherwise dominated by boyband pish.

I think one of the main reason Britons don't leave the EPL for foreign shores is for language reasons. I lived in Scandinavia for two years and went with out there without a word of Danish or Swedish and became fluent in a relatively short period due to total immersion. The only time I ever spoke English was to English people who had lived there for over 10 years. The system of teaching foreign languages in UK has failed their students, who leave school after 14 years of education with little ability to converse in the mere basics with a French or Spanish person. This is also coupled with a mindset, whereby they mistakenly believe there is little necessity to have proficiency in any other language as English is the universal language today. (Good luck with that in South America). The second reason most English players do not leave English shores is that their chances of getting action for England are severely curtailed whilst playing abroad. See McManaman, Owen, Hargreaves, Beckham, Woodgate, Ince etc.

There is also the issue that English players tend to be less cultured than European players. I remember Arshavin and Smertin launching scathing attacks on the “geezer” culture in English football and how they felt out of place without many cultural attractions. I think the same applies in reverse with English players abroad, who tend to find it harder to fit in with more cultured and sophisticated players on the continent. Remember how Graeme Le Saux was branded a homosexual by his Chelsea team mates for reading the Guardian?

As regards there being no real tabloid culture with rugby in Ireland? I tend to disagree. Our own Trevor Brennan is has filled more tabloid column inches than Powell or Cipriani combined. I also know more than I care to ever know about who Brian O'Driscoll is dating at the moment. Same exists in the GAA. What Paul Galvin is wearing or what Donal Óg Cusack got up to with other men whilst on holidays is not something I particularly care about, yet the tabloids in Ireland appear to lap it up.


These external factors have little influence on the style of play in the UK and Ireland, rather the causative factor is purely down to coaching in my eyes. Like I said before, its only when I went to tournaments abroad with my football team and saw the contrast in pre-match preparation between Irish sides and our European counterparts; The series of technical drills they were doing as we merely passed the ball cross field and did jogging exercises, was a real eye opener for me that even at the top level of schoolboy football in Ireland we are still lagging light-years behind the coaching kids receive on the continent.

PS- Also with regard to your English v Ireland rugby analogy, I would say the far more salient reason why Irish rugby appears to be in a stronger one than England (which is arguable at best, considering a very young English team are the current 6 Nations champions) is that in Irish rugby, the players are contracted to the IRFU as opposed to the cubs. With English clubs, players belong to the clubs and the clubs are independent of the RFU. This deprives them of the luxury that Leinster and Munster have, whereby Connacht is solely used as an experimental outfit (very much to Connachts detriment) for Munster and Leinster (and to a lesser extent Ulster) to cherry pick the best of upcoming talent in the experimental province. Also it must not be forgotten that club rugby and the grassroots game in Ireland is dying a slow death and suffered terribly since the advent of professionalism.

[Fixer82]

Interesting post Toashteen

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ok I don't know how to multi-quote (can anyone tell me?)

Tick the wee box on the extreme right of the post(s) you want to reply to.

If it's the same post, then you'll have to break up with [/QUOTE].( Without the '/')


Then [/QUOTE] in the relevant places.