Refs

[Bry Boy]

I am sure this thread is somewhere , but sure il throw a new one.

Well its a debate everyone , well most will hold the same view on.
Referees.

the reputation of the league is getting damaged by the poor standard of refs in the loi.
I can handle mistakes , dont get me wrong any mistake is human nature and understandable.
but its these absolute blunders of decisions they are making.
I
m sure a few of you have seen the decision kelly made for the bray game not to give the peno.
I mean this is the man who refed a game involving the world champs and argentina , explain ?????

I am sick of wtaching these idiots make shockign decisions , especialy when your supporting a lower team who realy gets f*** all decisions as it is !!!!!

[Réiteoir]

If you feel that strongly about the standard then give the FAI a call first thing tomorrow and get yourself on a Refereeing Course...

[horton]

To be fair, it's a thankless job and I wouldn't do it as the grief you'd get isn't worth it. For every decision a ref gets wrong, how much abuse do they get from fans when they make a correct one(that goes against them)?

[osarusan]

Referees, like everybody else, make mistakes, but to say this -

the reputation of the league is getting damaged by the poor standard of refs in the loi

is going overboard. I've never ever heard a person say that something that turns them off LOI football is the standard of refereeing.

[nigel-harps1954]

Referees, like everybody else, make mistakes, but to say this -

is nonsense. I've never ever heard a person say that something that turns them off LOI football is the standard of refereeing.

Puts me off. Mick Wallace may as well have been refeering the game in Finn Park last Friday. It's very disappointing we can't get 10 or 15 decent referees in this country.

[passerrby]

If you feel that strongly about the standard then give the FAI a call first thing tomorrow and get yourself on a Refereeing Course...

are you trying to take a decent lad from bray and turn him into another idiot with a napolionic complex, do you not think there is enough already

[saint dog]

personally i think the standard of refs has improved in that we now have 6/8 high standard refs
albeit the offficals make collective errors and i say officals as i think linesmen tend to get more simple decisions wrong a lot
bit ott to say the league suffers because of it though

[marinobohs]

Refs mistakes are very annoying but as long as they do their best no more can be asked. players / managers (even supporters) make mistakes so we must accept that refs will.
While I have seen some howlers of decisions I dont believe I have ever seen a ref deliberately determine the result of a match and dont believe any ref sets out to "shaft" one team or the other despite how it at times seems to us supporters.

[Hurt Locker]

I think refs should be held accountable for the blunders they make (Kelly bray v pats). Demotion to less important match, better refs being rewarded and promoted to a LOI match.

[noddy102]

Most people hate the saying about everything evens itself out over the course of the season but i think its generally pretty true.

Looking at Pats games recently, they were turned down a blatant penalty against UCD, http://www.youtube.com/user/stpatsfctv#p/u/11/2F0BTFmmwz8 , which cost them 2 points yet they were lucky with the decision in Bray which won them 2 points and they had a similar decision like the one in Bray given as a penalty vs Galway which Galway scored. In the end that Galway goal didnt matter as it finished 5-2 but i think things do tend to even themselves out over a full season. Problem is supporters only remember the ones that cost their team points. For example a Pats fan will mention the penalty not given against UCD but never mention the one Bray didnt get.

To say the league is being damaged you only have to see recent decisions in both England (Gomes blunder etc) and in the Champions League Semi which was ruined by both players and ref to see that the LOI is not the only one which has problems.

[peadar1987]

I've done some reffing and umpiring myself, and after the nightmare of a time I had, I'd never badmouth a referee again!

Okay, maybe I let out a bit of a "**** sake!" at the penalty that should have been, but I can totally understand how a ref can make a mistake. And on Friday, if Bray had actually come out and tried to play the whole game like in the 10 minutes following the Pat's goal, we might well not have had any need for refereeing decisions to go our way,

[marinobohs]

I Would like to see more non refs become referee inspectors (think they are all ex refs at present) as we have seen elsewhere, self regulation in Ireland often equates with no regulation. I believe people like Eoin hand or Rico (for example) could bring an extra dimention to the role and that the present set up allows the Inspector to appreciate the refs difficulty but inhibits them from any other perspective.

[Jofspring]

I think refs should be held accountable for the blunders they make (Kelly bray v pats). Demotion to less important match, better refs being rewarded and promoted to a LOI match.

That kind of is the case already. On most occasions the better referees do the bigger games in the LOI and the lower down the league you go or the lesser the game usually (not all the time) the poorer refs will do them or the newer refs starting out in LOI.

Refs do get suspended and aren't given games if they are consistently performing bad. I know of a ref who was thinking of stepping up to LOI but said it can be a risk as he may not get matches a lot of weeks and it is something he'd have to think about. The better he performs the more games he gets so its in the referees interest to be fair.

I agree about getting one or two from outside of refereeing circles to be inspectors though.

[horton]

Would those complaining about refs/ref standards be in favour of them using video playback?

[horton]

There's a thread going on our forum about FAI/Ref bias against Derry, and the stats make a quite interesting reading.
Cards dished out in the first 10 games of the season.


Team Yellow Red Cards
Derry------30----3
Drogheda--22----0
Galway----22----1
St Pats----20----0
Dundalk----17----1
Sligo-------17----1
Bray-------16----0
Rovers-----16----1
Bohs-------15----1
UCD--------10----0

Average---18.5--0.8

I know we had a disastrous performance against Sligo, but is this really reflective? Do other teams think we really are a dirty team? there's plenty of posts cropping up every week complaining about ref decisions, are we just unlucky getting so many against us or could it all be just a big conspiracy against us nordies?

[Charlie Darwin]

I Would like to see more non refs become referee inspectors (think they are all ex refs at present) as we have seen elsewhere, self regulation in Ireland often equates with no regulation. I believe people like Eoin hand or Rico (for example) could bring an extra dimention to the role and that the present set up allows the Inspector to appreciate the refs difficulty but inhibits them from any other perspective.
I'm sure Eddie Gormley would be up for the job.

[Financial Stew]

There's a thread going on our forum about FAI/Ref bias against Derry, and the stats make a quite interesting reading.
Cards dished out in the first 10 games of the season.


I know we had a disastrous performance against Sligo, but is this really reflective? Do other teams think we really are a dirty team? there's plenty of posts cropping up every week complaining about ref decisions, are we just unlucky getting so many against us or could it all be just a big conspiracy against us nordies?

Not dirty - but quite a physical team. In any other league it wouldn't be a problem
but when 'whistling Richie Winters' is on the job you have no chance

[Réiteoir]

Not dirty - but quite a physical team. In any other league it wouldn't be a problem
but when 'whistling Richie Winters' is on the job you have no chance

I hear the Irish League don't see it as a problem, maybe you should make enquiries with them... ;)

[peadar1987]

I hear the Irish League don't see it as a problem, maybe you should make enquiries with them... ;)

I haven't seen you posting in a while, but somehow I knew this thread would draw you out!

[CuanaD]

If you feel that strongly about the standard then give the FAI a call first thing tomorrow and get yourself on a Refereeing Course...That's what I did (more than 15 years ago now . . .) Did the course & qualified fairly well (It was a tough course & there were failures). Spent 4 enjoyable seasons reffing in the Leinster league until home life got in the way.

Didn't take me long to realise that my attitude had been all wrong, Truth is the refs know the game very well & care about it more than most (you'd have to, to put yourself in that position every week - no one does it for the 'money'!); the problem is that most others don't know the rules of the game &/or prefer to remain blinkered towards their own clubs (which i do understand, we all want our own to be right & the others wrong).



So I'd agree with Réiteoir - do consider getting on a ref's course & try to make the difference yourself - :ball:

[L.T.F.C.]

That's what I did (more than 15 years ago now . . .) Did the course & qualified fairly well (It was a tough course & there were failures). Spent 4 enjoyable seasons reffing in the Leinster league until home life got in the way.

Didn't take me long to realise that my attitude had been all wrong, Truth is the refs know the game very well & care about it more than most (you'd have to, to put yourself in that position every week - no one does it for the 'money'!); the problem is that most others don't know the rules of the game &/or prefer to remain blinkered towards their own clubs (which i do understand, we all want our own to be right & the others wrong).



So I'd agree with Réiteoir - do consider getting on a ref's course & try to make the difference yourself - :ball:

I'm very well versed on the rules of the game and still the referees make elementary errors. Like when Shane Barrett scored our second in the 2003 Cup. A country mile offside! Not many know that you can't be within 2m of an opponent taking a throw-in. Not even the refs know that, and that is what frustrates me.

[Macy]

I Would like to see more non refs become referee inspectors (think they are all ex refs at present) as we have seen elsewhere, self regulation in Ireland often equates with no regulation. I believe people like Eoin hand or Rico (for example) could bring an extra dimention to the role and that the present set up allows the Inspector to appreciate the refs difficulty but inhibits them from any other perspective.
That'd be a great idea, especially given the connections of some of our prominent ref's. Even under the current system it would be a start if they said/ published when a ref was being demoted/ suspended - there's zero transparency.

As fans, we're perfectly entitled to give out about crap performances of players or refs. Ref's get all defensive, but you don't hear as much "you should sign up to be a goalkeeper" when a goalie fecks up and given out about. Shows the mentality of the people that become ref's that they are so ultra defensive and don't accept any criticism.

It's the utterly bizarre decisons that drive me nuts, rather than necessarily contentious decisions - I remember a ref setting the wall and then pacing back the yards to place the bloody ball, rather than placing the ball at the offence and the setting the distance for the wall. Afaik he is now one of the inspectors!

[SkStu]

what used to drive me bonkers was the linesfolk waiting for the referee to award the decision for a throw in before pointing their flag!!

[sligoman]

what used to drive me bonkers was the linesfolk waiting for the referee to award the decision for a throw in before pointing their flag!!Unfortunately that still happens regularly.

[Spudulika]

Wouldn't refs have an easier job if players didn't cheat or try to intimidate, or managers didn't try to play mind games. Just a thought.

[Macy]

Wouldn't refs have an easier job if players didn't cheat or try to intimidate, or managers didn't try to play mind games. Just a thought.
Players and managers wouldn't do it if refs weren't weak arses that fell for it.

[Financial Stew]

My real bugbear with refs in the LOI is not so much making the wrong decision
or not seeing blatant fouls (everyone in every job makes mistakes) its the sheer volume of interventions that some of them make throughout a game - that drives me crazy.

I know it's a tough thankless job but the best refs IMO are the ones that let the game flow naturally and only get involved when common sense dictates.... like in all the other leagues

[D.24saint]

Id agree with the above the refs are too whistle happy and continually stop games for petty fouls and dont allow advantage, Richie Winters has to be the sorriest excuse for a referee you will ever see I know the rest bar Kelly are poor but imo Winter is the worst by a country mile has to be the center of attention or he isn't happy.

[NeverFeltBetter]

This story featuring prominently today: https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/2018/1112/1010274-offaly-referee-assault/

Been a few stories about GAA matches getting out of hand recently as well (regards treatment of refs), or so I've noticed but is this really a growing problem or is just being reported more?

[geysir]

This story featuring prominently today: https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/2018/1112/1010274-offaly-referee-assault/

Been a few stories about GAA matches getting out of hand recently as well (regards treatment of refs), or so I've noticed but is this really a growing problem or is just being reported more?
I heard the news report on rte news and assumed it happened after a GAA match. I will now have to to listen better with a critical ear and keep a leash onto the odd lingering prejudice.
I haven't come across an assault in any sport which remotely comes close to the savagery as evidenced in the picture.

[seand]

I heard the news report on rte news and assumed it happened after a GAA match. I will now have to to listen better with a critical ear and keep a leash onto the odd lingering prejudice.
I haven't come across an assault in any sport which remotely comes close to the savagery as evidenced in the picture.

Sean Kavanagh the Tyrone GAA player, for one, could easily have been killed in an on-field assault in the past few weeks. There are loads of other examples from GAA (and other sports), but that's beside the point. DDSL hit the headlines recently with a couple of incidents and the DDSL felt obliged to issue dire warnings about future conduct. I know in my kids' league the NDSL we've often struggled for referees recently. Is it getting worse in soccer or just reflecting society, I dunno. I wouldn't be volunteering to ref anything above about u10 though.

[geysir]

Sean Kavanagh the Tyrone GAA player, for one, could easily have been killed in an on-field assault in the past few weeks. There are loads of other examples from GAA (and other sports), but that's beside the point. DDSL hit the headlines recently with a couple of incidents and the DDSL felt obliged to issue dire warnings about future conduct. I know in my kids' league the NDSL we've often struggled for referees recently. Is it getting worse in soccer or just reflecting society, I dunno. I wouldn't be volunteering to ref anything above about u10 though.
I was talking about assaults on refs, Sean Cavanagh isn't a ref and .......... he's from Tyrone.

[seand]

My bad, but you did say "I haven't come across an assault in any sport ........" without reference to referees. But yeh, struggling to think of a recent example of a ref being hospitalised.

[Nesta99]

One of the worst things I witnessed locally was a referee getting spat at in the face by his own son who was playing and was being sent off for a dreadful tackle. It's not in the same league as the above case but the lack of respect had everyone present cringing. If there is one thing to take from rugby it is the way that referees do not get challenged even if in the wrong. This attitude needs to be embedded at youth level and a serious clap down by governing bodies on how pros interact with the referee. Who'd be a ref, and its no wonder there is a shortage in general and then a shortage of good referees.

[EatYerGreens]

One of the worst things I witnessed locally was a referee getting spat at in the face by his own son who was playing and was being sent off for a dreadful tackle. It's not in the same league as the above case but the lack of respect had everyone present cringing. If there is one thing to take from rugby it is the way that referees do not get challenged even if in the wrong. This attitude needs to be embedded at youth level and a serious clap down by governing bodies on how pros interact with the referee. Who'd be a ref, and its no wonder there is a shortage in general and then a shortage of good referees.

There is a cultural problem at all levels - and around the world - with how referees are treated in football.

It's not just a cliche to say that people will replicate locally the poor treatment shown towards referees in big games on TV from around the world.

Rugby has it right, with referees treated respectfully. FIFA need to clamp down massively on this and implement new rules about how referees should be treated. There'd be a very short period of chaos with cards and sending offs whilst people adjusted to it, but they'd soon learn quickly and a new period of respect would be enforced. I juts can't see FIFA or UEFA having the desire to do this though. And I think it would be hard to try to change the culture at a non-league only in Ireland, or a part of Ireland. whilst people watch refs getting crowded, jostled etc on TV on a regular basis.

[seand]

A very simple step would be to allow only captains or players directly involved in an incident to approach the referee (and those players have to be respectful, of course). Anyone else gets involved is an automatic yellow. One week teething period then it'd make a huge difference.

[marinobohs]

I have always believed that refs in LOI are not biased just make mistakes, sometimes lots of mistakes. I would like to see some level of oversight which at present doesn't appear to exist (refs inspectors are a joke).Every ref will make a mistake, they are human but unless they are asked to account for decisions how will they improve ?

The nonsense of players/managers disrespecting the ref should be ended by sending the player/manager off and the league setting proper penalties and applied in ALL cases. Only team captains should be allowed question a decision and then only if they do it respectfully.

Supporters will always disagree with the ref but that's just part of the game.

[blueblood]

I've come to accept the ref's are only human and make mistakes, going to Limerick games for years it was always the same with ref's being bias and screwing us 99% of the games, plenty of times I was 100% sure we should have had a penalty or shouldn't have been a red card then watch the highlights and often the ref got it spot on, I remember 2017 Bastien Hery gave away a penalty playing for us and everyone was screaming at the ref's shocking decision only for Hery to later say he felt crap for stupidly committing the fowl that gave away the penalty. This plus most teams are more professional at drawing fowls. It's tough on ref's you'd nearly feel sorry for them

[CorribsideSteve]

I've come to accept the ref's are only human and make mistakes, going to Limerick games for years it was always the same with ref's being bias and screwing us 99% of the games, plenty of times I was 100% sure we should have had a penalty or shouldn't have been a red card then watch the highlights and often the ref got it spot on, I remember 2017 Bastien Hery gave away a penalty playing for us and everyone was screaming at the ref's shocking decision only for Hery to later say he felt crap for stupidly committing the fowl that gave away the penalty. This plus most teams are more professional at drawing fowls. It's tough on ref's you'd nearly feel sorry for them

some of them, yes. people like Anthony Buttimer love being the center of attention with his utterly baffling decisions. refs like that thrive on being everyone's pantomime villain. I remember one Galway United match vs SRFC up in Tallaght. cross comes in, Rovers player jumps with his arm out, catches the goalie, ball drops while goalkeeper down, goal stands, goalkeeper complains to Buttimer, gets a red card. He absolutely singlehandedly did his best to ruin the 2008 cup final also. No sympathy for him.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

some of them, yes. people like Anthony Buttimer love being the center of attention with his utterly baffling decisions. refs like that thrive on being everyone's pantomime villain. I remember one Galway United match vs SRFC up in Tallaght. cross comes in, Rovers player jumps with his arm out, catches the goalie, ball drops while goalkeeper down, goal stands, goalkeeper complains to Buttimer, gets a red card. He absolutely singlehandedly did his best to ruin the 2008 cup final also. No sympathy for him.

That the cup game? Think it was two yellow cards the keeper (Ryan?) got that day in the space of seconds. Remember Buttimer having a mare that day, particularly one point where a rovers player was offside, keeper saved the shot and a goal kick was given.

[CorribsideSteve]

That the cup game? Think it was two yellow cards the keeper (Ryan?) got that day in the space of seconds. Remember Buttimer having a mare that day, particularly one point where a Rovers player was offside, keeper saved the shot and a goal kick was given.

That's right. A game Galway lost 6 nil. Would have been handier with a keeper. I don't recall two yellows, but you could be right. It seemed like a ballistic over the top reaction from Buttimer, and that week's Soccer Republic gave credence to that idea. I remember the incident you refer to and thinking to myself "that sums it all up!". I also remember having to cross the main stand with a steward to go to the toilet, and one rovers fan going "ah jaysus, don't throw him out, it's bad enough they're losing" :D

[NeverFeltBetter]

40 year ban for the three players, lifetime ban for the supporter, who already had a ban for assaulting a ref: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/1123/1012861-three-players-and-spectator-handed-bans-over-ref-attack/

Haven't heard anything about the criminal case though.

[marinobohs]

40 year ban for the three players, lifetime ban for the supporter, who already had a ban for assaulting a ref: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/1123/1012861-three-players-and-spectator-handed-bans-over-ref-attack/


Haven't heard anything about the criminal case though.

Difficult to see how this Will be enforced - as shown by one of them already been banned ! Strong message, and rightly so but hope criminal charges follow to provide a real deterrent

[NeverFeltBetter]

Four arrested: https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1128/1013949-referee-arrests/