Cann Tables

[peadar1987]

I know a few of you stat-heads will appreciate this, from the University of Sussex website: The concept of the Cann table is due to Jenny Cann. She published the "Visual League Table (http://web.archive.org/web/20030401173415/www.clockend.demon.co.uk/table.htm)" from January 1998 until her tragic death just before the end of the 2002/3 season.

Basically, instead of putting all the teams in a standard table, you write the team's name beside the number of points they have, so you can see the gap between the teams at a glance, instead of having to look closely at the table,


Premier Division

Pts.

17 Shamrock Rovers (+10)
16 Bray Wanderers (+3)
15 Derry City (+7), Bohemians (+5)
14 Sligo Rovers (+4)
13
12
11 Dundalk (-1)
10
9 St. Pat's (-1)
8
7
6
5 UCD (-8), Galway (-9)
4
3
2 Drogheda (-10)



First Division

17 Monaghan United (+8)
16 Shelbourne (+8)
15 Cork City (+8)
14
13
12 Longford Town (+3)
11 Limerick (+4)
10
9 Athlone (-4)
8
7 *Mervue United (-1), Waterford United (-2)
6
5
4
3 *Finn Harps (-7), Wexford Youths (-8)
2 Salthill Devon (-9)


* Game in Hand

[hoops1]

At least her life wasn't wasted.

oh
hold
on

it
was

[Longfordian]

Sweet baby Jesus, my head..

[born2bwild]

Yeah. How did she die? By the way, I was looking at the league table from last year as if it was still 2 points (not 3) for a win. Sporting Fingal would have finished 1 point behind Shamrock Rovers, in second position, not fourth. Would that have made any difference? Don't think so. But imagine if only one of their draws had been won..they would have won the league. Maybe the FAI would have stepped in somehow? Do I win any prizes for the most ifs, buts and maybes in a single post?

[peadar1987]

Yeah. How did she die? By the way, I was looking at the league table from last year as if it was still 2 points (not 3) for a win. Sporting Fingal would have finished 1 point behind Shamrock Rovers, in second position, not fourth. Would that have made any difference? Don't think so. But imagine if only one of their draws had been won..they would have won the league. Maybe the FAI would have stepped in somehow? Do I win any prizes for the most ifs, buts and maybes in a single post?

I'm not sure how she died, all the internet has to say is that it was tragic. (And hoops1, it's a bit out of line making a joke out of someone's death).

[SkStu]

I'm not sure how she died, all the internet has to say is that it was tragic. (And hoops1, it's a bit out of line making a joke out of someone's death).

i know - theyre just so evil those Rovers lads.

Could you explain the concept to me Peadar? That link keeps timing out and wont load for me.

[BonnieShels]

I was looking at the league table from last year as if it was still 2 points (not 3) for a win. Sporting Fingal would have finished 1 point behind Shamrock Rovers, in second position, not fourth.

That's complete twaddle. Points-wise none of the teams would have changed position.
Shams and Bohs would have had the same points ie. 48 (and GD would have still meant that Shams would have been league champions).
Yourselves and Sligo would have actually ended up on the same points ie. 46 and as Sligo had a +1 in GD you would have still finished 4th, 5 points ahead of Pat's who would have had 41 points.


i know - theyre just so evil those Rovers lads.

Could you explain the concept to me Peadar? That link keeps timing out and wont load for me.

Stu, the concept is that you position the teams as if they were on a ladder step equivalent to the actual points total they have which would show just how far ahead/behind a team is from the others rather than having a list of teams as we conventionally do.

So in Peadar's example we see that Sligo have 14 points and Dundalk have 11, so rather than have Sligo directly above Dundalk as we would have on a normal league table, we sort of fill in the gaps between them to show the true difference that is really between them.

Here's a link to the current EPL one.

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/Users/iane/cannyclubs.php

[SkStu]

ah okay - i get it now. Cheers.

[osarusan]

Got a problem with Limerick FC being in the table do you?

[born2bwild]

That's complete twaddle. Points-wise none of the teams would have changed position.
Shams and Bohs would have had the same points ie. 48 (and GD would have still meant that Shams would have been league champions).
Yourselves and Sligo would have actually ended up on the same points ie. 46 and as Sligo had a +1 in GD you would have still finished 4th, 5 points ahead of Pat's who would have had 41 points.

]
Yeah, well all I did was add up Fingal's points total and decided to throw it out there to see what happened. What do you want? Balanced calculations? I was a fingal fan. Are Shels' accounts balancing out now? Hope so.

Anyway it still stands that with two points separating Fingal from Shams they would have been one result away from being champions. Makes you think, eh?

By the way I prefer this way of showing the table. You can actually 'see' the distance between the teams.

[born2bwild]

I'm not sure how she died, all the internet has to say is that it was tragic. (And hoops1, it's a bit out of line making a joke out of someone's death).
Wasn't he making a joke out of her life?

[peadar1987]

Got a problem with Limerick FC being in the table do you?


I was going to put them in, but I'd already signed a previous agreement saying Limerick couldn't be mentioned in a thread that could be viewed by more than 25 people.

[ped_ped]

Meanwhile, in Scotland. (http://www.sussex.ac.uk/Users/iane/cannyclubs.php?source=scot_prem)

I must say, particularly in the SPL, it is pretty effective in illustrating the gulfs.

[BonnieShels]

Meanwhile, in Scotland. (http://www.sussex.ac.uk/Users/iane/cannyclubs.php?source=scot_prem)

I must say, particularly in the SPL, it is pretty effective in illustrating the gulfs.

It's still not able to show the split though.

Let's do the other famous 2 team league...


Yeah, well all I did was add up Fingal's points total and decided to throw it out there to see what happened. What do you want? Balanced calculations? I was a fingal fan. Are Shels' accounts balancing out now? Hope so.

You sure did do that and it didn't take into effect that the application of the amount of points to each team is the same across the board for each team. A pretty rookie mistake in fairness and completely made a balls of your point which was completely accurate in one sense but twaddle in another more accurate one. I mean if the other teams didn't finish ahead of us last season we would have been promoted! :rolleyes: Were you in Spingal's Finance Dept?
Our accounts aren't balancing but we're paying off our debt slowly but surely. I mean it's all well being bitter but give it up at this stage.



Anyway it still stands that with two points separating Fingal from Shams they would have been one result away from being champions. Makes you think, eh?

It does make you think but what you are saying doesn't require you to change the points scoring system to enable you to make your point.


By the way I prefer this way of showing the table. You can actually 'see' the distance between the teams.

I agree. It's a fascinating graphical representation of the league table. However I would say it would be a nightmare on the results page if every league was detailed in such a fashion.

[born2bwild]

Yeah Bonnie but, and this is getting seriously pedantic, with 3 points for win Fingal were five points behind Shams; with 2 points for a win they would have been two points behind. The reason I thought of this was because Fingal had so many draws last year - more than anyone in the Prem. For that reason the application of points was not even as you suggested. Back in ye olde system they would have been one result away from the title. Last year it was two results away. I needed to hypothesise using the old system to make the point, which was, there was very very little separating the teams at the top of the Prem last year.
But I suppose the FAI would have let Fingal as champions go down the drain anyway, I mean they were willing to stand over the death of the champions - Shels - in 2007.
As for being a rookie...? Wel,l I failed maths. Why didn't they have football in the leaving cert?
Oh by the way, in asking about Shels accounts I was genuinely asking, I'm not bitter about anything, and only wish the best for the club!

[Mr A]

I'm not sure how she died, all the internet has to say is that it was tragic. (And hoops1, it's a bit out of line making a joke out of someone's death).

She was about to cross the road and was told by a bystander that there was a second bus 20 metres behind the one that was currently approaching. However, without a graphical representation she found it difficult to interpret this and was promptly run over by the second bus.

[peadar1987]

She was about to cross the road and was told by a bystander that there was a second bus 20 metres behind the one that was currently approaching. However, without a graphical representation she found it difficult to interpret this and was promptly run over by the second bus.

Now that's just silly, who asks a bystander about the state of the traffic instead of just looking, or else, what sort of a bystander just stands on the street describing the traffic to random pedestrians. I'm beginning to think you made that story up.

[bluewhitearmy]

Yeah Bonnie but, and this is getting seriously pedantic, with 3 points for win Fingal were five points behind Shams; with 2 points for a win they would have been two points behind. The reason I thought of this was because Fingal had so many draws last year - more than anyone in the Prem. For that reason the application of points was not even as you suggested. Back in ye olde system they would have been one result away from the title. Last year it was two results away. I needed to hypothesise using the old system to make the point, which was, there was very very little separating the teams at the top of the Prem last year.
But I suppose the FAI would have let Fingal as champions go down the drain anyway, I mean they were willing to stand over the death of the champions - Shels - in 2007.
As for being a rookie...? Wel,l I failed maths. Why didn't they have football in the leaving cert?
Oh by the way, in asking about Shels accounts I was genuinely asking, I'm not bitter about anything, and only wish the best for the club!


Tbf when ya said ya supported Fingal ya would have failed that too.

[Eminence Grise]

Now that's just silly, who asks a bystander about the state of the traffic instead of just looking, or else, what sort of a bystander just stands on the street describing the traffic to random pedestrians. I'm beginning to think you made that story up.

I'd neeeever doubt Mr A, Peadar.

And I think those people are sometimes likened to barstoolers on this site.

[born2bwild]

Tbf when ya said ya supported Fingal ya would have failed that too.
What is this gibberish?

[John83]

What is this gibberish?
He highlighted your sentence asking why they didn't have football in the leaving cert when you were taking it. Then he suggested that admitting to being a Fingal fan would result in you failing such an exam, a somewhat clumsy jibe about your (ex-)club. Your reply casts some doubt on your result in English too.

Just in case it helps, here's a short glossary to help you interpret bluewhitearmy's post.

Tbf: A common internet acronym for the phrase "To be fair".
ya: Limerick scum dialect for you (singular).

English comprehension aside, I haven't seen these Cann tables before. It's interesting to compare the English and Scottish tables. We should be careful not to compare the current Irish one with those two though, as we're much earlier in our season. I might hack together last year's LoI table as a Cann table tomorrow, if no one beats me to it.

[born2bwild]

Well, it's the clumsy jibe that I can't work out. "Tbf when ya said ya supported Fingal ya would have failed that too." What is intended by the object of 'failed' i.e 'that'? The act of saying that I supported Fingal? Actually supporting Fingal? How can you fail to say or do those things? Perhaps that the club went tits up in itself is partly the result of the quality of my support, that is, had I supported them more effectively they wouldn't have disappeared? If anything the last possibility is the only one that carries any hint of sense - I mean a real, top fan would have really deep pockets from which wads of cash could be pulled and thrown at the club to keep it afloat.

As for my result in English; thanks to UCD I'm probably 99% illterate.

[peadar1987]

English comprehension aside, I haven't seen these Cann tables before. It's interesting to compare the English and Scottish tables. We should be careful not to compare the current Irish one with those two though, as we're much earlier in our season. I might hack together last year's LoI table as a Cann table tomorrow, if no one beats me to it.

I'll take that as a hint!


Pts

67..Shamrock Rovers (+23), Bohemians (+21)
66
65
64
63..Sligo Rovers (+25)
62..Sporting Fingal (+24)
61
60
59
58
57..St. Pat's (+22)
56
55
54
53
52
51
50
49
48..Dundalk (-4)
47
46
45
44
43
42
41..UCD (-7)
40
39
38..Galway United (-21)
37
36
35
34
33
32
31
30
29
28
27..Bray Wanderers (-37)
26
25
24
23
22
21..Drogheda United (-44)

[peadar1987]

And the first division:

69..Derry City (+41)
68
67
66..Waterford United (+32)
65
64
63
62..Monaghan United (+30)
61..Shelbourne (+26)
60
59
58
57..Limerick (+20)
56
55
54
53
52..Cork City (+8)
51
50
49
48
47
46
45
44
43
42..Wexford Youths (-12)
41
40..Finn Harps (-6)
39
38
37
36
35..Longford Town (-14)
34
33
32
31..Athlone Town (-15)
30
29
28
27
26
25
24
23
22
21
20
19..Mervue United (-50)
18
17
16
15..Salthill Devon (-60)

[BonnieShels]

But I suppose the FAI would have let Fingal as champions go down the drain anyway, I mean they were willing to stand over the death of the champions - Shels - in 2007.
As for being a rookie...? Wel,l I failed maths. Why didn't they have football in the leaving cert?
Oh by the way, in asking about Shels accounts I was genuinely asking, I'm not bitter about anything, and only wish the best for the club!

I actually thought you were being a smarta$$!
You can understand why I as a Shelburnian would not take kindly to financial questions from a Fingallian. Anyway...

Personally I prefer to think of us as being in constant limbo and being persecuted by the FAI. So I'd prefer if you weren't so level headed and concerned about our plight. It's more fun to think the Egyptians, I mean FAI hates ya!

Also Peadar, you're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to easily lead! :P