Referendum Vote

[brendy_éire]

It's a living document that can evolve when the people want it to evolve. To allow it to stagnate leads to scenarios like in the US, where the right to bear arms may have been all very well to protect those figting the British, but is now employed in a completely different context.

Strangely enough, I find myself agreeing with ye, Conor. :eek:

Why this reverence for the Constitution? Can't understand where the idea that it should be changed as little as possible comes from.


Agree that it's a ood thing to update the constitution, when necessary.
But this alteration is not necessary and I think it's flawed.

Liamon, the Constitution itself is fatally flawed. Allow me to quote:

"In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,
We, the people of Éire,
Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial...."

That's an absolute disgrace, to say the least.
I'd also take issue with the make-up of the Seanad and private property laws.

The Constitution, despite what some of ye may think, is not a sacred document, it is a living embarassment to our nation.

If I'd my way I'd burn the feckin thing and start afresh.

[lopez]

How does it concern you then? Won't effect you or your kids.How does it concern you then? My status of Irish citizenship is no different than any Irish citizen born in Ireland, apart from it initially costing my kids twice as much for their first passports and that I have to reside in the 26C - the same as Irish born ex-pats - to vote in elections or referendums. Your logic is that the people who will lose out from transfering a Ius Soli citizenship to one that centres on Ius Sanguinis, yet still allowing the right for outsiders to gain Irish citizenship AND retain their other citizenship aswell, are the only people entitled to vote. :confused:

[Macy]

How does it concern you then? My status of Irish citizenship is no different than any Irish citizen born in Ireland, apart from it initially costing my kids twice as much for their first passports and that I have to reside in the 26C - the same as Irish born ex-pats - to vote in elections or referendums. Your logic is that the people who will lose out from transfering a Ius Soli citizenship to one that centres on Ius Sanguinis, yet still allowing the right for outsiders to gain Irish citizenship AND retain their other citizenship aswell, are the only people entitled to vote. :confused:
No, my point is that the change effects only people actually living in Ireland. In this particular referrendum it doesn't effect Ius Sanguinis, only Ius Soli, so it doesn't effect you.

Should you have been able to vote on Divorce or Abortion which also doesn't effect you? You can divorced, your missus could get an abortion because you live in the UK. What gives you the right to dictate to those at home how they should live their lives?

Ditto Elections - if you're not living in the state, then you don't have to live under the Government that is elected. Conceivably the ex-pats could swing an election vote, so how is that fair on the people that have to pay taxes and live under that regime?

Basing it on residency is the only equitable way for the people that have to live under the conditions that result from the votes.

[lopez]

No, my point is that the change effects only people actually living in Ireland. In this particular referrendum it doesn't effect Ius Sanguinis, only Ius Soli, so it doesn't effect you.
The change affects people with no Irish blood. How does that affect you any more than me seeing that I pay the same 'tax' as you for my passport.

Ditto Elections - if you're not living in the state, then you don't have to live under the Government that is elected. Conceivably the ex-pats could swing an election vote, so how is that fair on the people that have to pay taxes and live under that regime?
Ireland again seems to buck the trends with regards to other countries but as someone already said we don't want to follow anyone else's lead in case we have to gas Jews as well (while at the same time being brainwashed by a multitude of foreign newspapers, television and let's not forget, football). :rolleyes: The reason the ex-pats are denied the vote is as you rightly point out simply their numeracy. That is why Britain, Spain, Germany, the US, South Africa and I would guess most other democratic countries are adult enough to allow all their citizens - inside and outside the country - a vote whereas Ireland dare not do that.

It has got f*ck all to do with taxes or any other mundane matter. What about the people who have left after paying taxes whereas others that have stayed have not paid a cent in their lives, people with property and large-scale investment, the older gneration forced to move out through lack of jobs? As for living or not living under the regime, oh yeah I'm going to vote for the Irish Nazi Party because I'd really like to see the country go to the wall. The disenfranchising of Irish citizens when they leave Ireland is a damning reminder of Ireland's inability in the past to stem emigration. Bertie has gone on record (back in 1997) as saying more or less he's sh*t scared of such a scenario as you described. I would suggest that no other politician would be happy with it either (apart from Gerry maybe?)

[liamon]

[QUOTE=brendy_éire]
Liamon, the Constitution itself is fatally flawed. Allow me to quote:

"In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, ......"

That's an absolute disgrace, to say the least.

The Constitution, despite what some of ye may think, is not a sacred document, it is a living embarassment to our nation.
[QUOTE]
You're going to hell, ya heathen. :D
Look, when it was written, we were a predominantly Catholic country and nearly everyone went to Mass. Even now, there are a lot of people arguing that the preamble to the proposed EU constitution (awful idea) should have a reference to God in it. So it's not that embarrassing. If you want to live in a secular world, move to France. ;)

Aside from that, I agree that the constitution isn't perfect. But I don't think adding another flawed amendment is going to make it better.

[Macy]

We shouldn't follow other countries, just because they allow it to happen. I think it's perfectly valid to suggest that the people who have to live under the regime's should be the only one's able to vote, as they are directly effected by the result.

What impact does it have on you who's in Government in Ireland?

[pete]

I'm sure a lot of other countries give the vote to ex-pats cos they won't make up a huge percentage. If we did the same & allowed those 10's of millions claiming irish citizenship in the US it would kinda screw up the political process here. Then again maybe the citizenship law would have to get stricter for them to prevent them having a vote?

[lopez]

We shouldn't follow other countries, just because they allow it to happen. I think it's perfectly valid to suggest that the people who have to live under the regime's should be the only one's able to vote, as they are directly effected by the result.

What impact does it have on you who's in Government in Ireland?That is of course your opinion, but most democratic countries do not have a problem with emigrants voting. Their influence in, taxation to and the repercussions from are the same as the Irish. Only difference is that the Irish emigrant block is in comparison to the resident block far greater. As for the impact of government, to me personally, nada. But what if I was planning to move to Ireland? What if I had property there? What if I was born and brought up in Ireland and had moved away through no choice but to get a job? The choice of government would be important. I could choose a government that is likely to improve the wealth and prosperity of the 26 county state and keep the value of my property steady, rather than one that is going to set it back to the eighties, begging the US government to make a special exception to the excess of the population. The choice of government here would, indeed does, have a significant impact on me.

I'm sure a lot of other countries give the vote to ex-pats cos they won't make up a huge percentage. If we did the same & allowed those 10's of millions claiming irish citizenship in the US it would kinda screw up the political process here. Then again maybe the citizenship law would have to get stricter for them to prevent them having a vote?The tens of millions in America you talk about would not be entitled to citizenship. Only third generation or their descendents if they had Irish citizenship on their birth. As for stricter citizenship, the only strictness is going to be towards aliens, not anyone with Irish blood (even at 5th/6th generation this often includes all the first generation of ancestors that were not born in the new land).

Personally it's immaterial to me as someone who hasn't lived in Ireland to get the vote but for those that grew up there I think it is laughable - although understandable - that they are denied it. However the political process would not be screwed up too much if there were seperate seats for the emigrant vote in either the Dail or the Seanad.

[corkharps]

I heard recently that there are 1.2million people of Irish BIRTH living abroad! :eek:

[pete]

Personally it's immaterial to me as someone who hasn't lived in Ireland to get the vote but for those that grew up there I think it is laughable - although understandable - that they are denied it. .

Fair solution would be that anyone who lived in the country & had a vote before they left would be able to retain it abroad - maybe they'd lose after 10 years depending on numbers. We'd probably need another referndum for this anyway?

The US constitution would appear to be one of the worst around. Theres virtually no amendments (last one in 50's or 60's i think) to it cos is so complicated to get an Amendment before the voters - need so many states to vote for the proposal first combined with variety of majorities in federal politicial houses. Apparently thats why they saying George Bush no hope of even getting a nationwide vote on banning gay marriages over there.

[brendy_éire]

Bertie has gone on record (back in 1997) as saying more or less he's sh*t scared of such a scenario as you described. I would suggest that no other politician would be happy with it either (apart from Gerry maybe?)

Spot on. Bertie's scared of what giving all Irish citizens a vote would mean to his party.

Pete's idea sounds alright for people living abroad. Though I think everyone in the 6 counties should have a vote regardless. I'd be nice to have at least some say over how we're governed. There's some talk of giving us Seanad seats or votes in the Presidential election.

[corkharps]

Spot on. Bertie's scared of what giving all Irish citizens a vote would mean to his party.

Pete's idea sounds alright for people living abroad. Though I think everyone in the 6 counties should have a vote regardless. I'd be nice to have at least some say over how we're governed. There's some talk of giving us Seanad seats or votes in the Presidential election.

Bendy,you live in Donegal you plonker! :D

[corkharps]

I'm against these women who are settled in other European countries coming here just to give birth in order to get the passport. then head back to the UK, holland or wherever.

its an unnecessary drain on our services....

It would seem that your education was also an unnecessary drain on our services! :rolleyes:

[ccfcman]

lads its fúckin close up there and i tink itll be like that for the result,jeez we'll get that soon after we voted on those €52million evoting machines....oh wait a min.............. :rolleyes:

[lopez]

The US constitution would appear to be one of the worst around. Theres virtually no amendments (last one in 50's or 60's i think) to it cos is so complicated to get an Amendment before the voters - need so many states to vote for the proposal first combined with variety of majorities in federal politicial houses. Apparently thats why they saying George Bush no hope of even getting a nationwide vote on banning gay marriages over there.I've been watching UK History reruns of BBC's 1997 programme 'Prohibition' which was I believe the last ammendment. While the programme was very distressing - violence towards saloons, beer kegs and Jack Daniels bottles (especially from la Bigada de Roberto Jones) and people suffering from lack of drink - it was a good insight into the most stupid law ever passed. Al Capone, the Real McCoy, 'Prowler' Joe Kennedy? These are the REAL American heroes. They should bring out a set of stamps about them.

Pete's idea sounds alright for people living abroad. Though I think everyone in the 6 counties should have a vote regardless.They should all have a vote, but until re-unification, I'm in favour of those that elect to be Irish citizens having a voice somewhere within the Oireachtas.

The most important justification for giving emigrants the vote, which I forgot to mention, is the financial help they gave towards the establishment and the subsequent economic stabilising of the 26C state. The whip round in the US when Dev went there and the huge ammount of remmitances sent home during a period where social security and pensions were virtually non-existent.

And whatever opinion you have, if you have the vote, f*cking use it!!

[brendy_éire]

Bendy,you live in Donegal you plonker! :D

Just until September, mucker. :D

[Condex]

I'm voting yes, but I still would distance myself from that kind of thinking. Maternity hospitals are not dumping grounds, many non-nationals are not 'looking for an automatic Irish passport' but simply giving birth, and under no circumstances should we prevent their right to do so on the pretext that they should have had the child in their own country.


Your wrong, my sister in law knew a Nigerian woman who told her that she was waiting till late in pregnancy then would fly to Ireland to give birth.

I'm sure the people of Ireland don't pay tax to support these freeloaders.

The liberal left have got to accept that they have been out voted 4 to 1 even though the were backed by those democrats Sinn Fein.

[eoinh]

Mr condex come home you freeloader.

See here (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=670512004)

[Condex]

Mr condex come home you freeloader.

See here (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=670512004)

I wouldn't take much notice of a left wing rag read something the same in the Observer today Ireland unlike the UK has no colonial past.

I would not consider myself a freeloader I was born here am quite well educated and have payed my taxes for the last twenty years. This is the sort of person Ireland should welcome.

I'm not really in favour of turning Ireland into this so called multi-cultural country, it doesn't work you end up with ghettos and people living parallel lives something like nothern Ireland.

[Plastic Paddy]

I'm not really in favour of turning Ireland into this so called multi-cultural country, it doesn't work you end up with ghettos and people living parallel lives something like nothern Ireland.

And you claim to live in London? Do you walk around with your head in a bag or something? It's wonderful living in such a thriving multicultural city. There's always something different to see and do. I'd advise everyone try it for at least a couple of years. (Especially you, Tippboy, if you're reading this thread. It'll open your eyes.) I think you're way off the mark here Condex.

:confused: PP

[eoinh]

I'm not really in favour of turning Ireland into this so called multi-cultural country, it doesn't work you end up with ghettos and people living parallel lives something like nothern Ireland.


Northern Ireland isnt multi-cultural! Its simply two religions at each others throats.

Irelands history is a history of assimailation. No one here can say thay are of Celtic, Viking, Norman, English Plantation, Hugenot or what ever stock. Thats because they have all been assimilated. You cant tell where youre ancestors come from. Yet its the most recently settled country by human beings in europe. Names might give a hint, but thats all. Tippman doesnt realise that most tipperary and Kilkenny people are descendants of English planters "who became more Irish than the Irish themselves"
I live in Waterford or orginally Vater fjord.

having 5000 estonians or 1000 bulgarians in ireland wont turn us into a mini bulgaria or estonia. all their chidren will be irish as you or me. Is Ivania Balcik not irish?

Except for the poor native Argentian indians who could tell of which stock Argentianians are from except by their surnames.

[lopez]

Multi-culturalism is the sign of a nation's success, not it's failure. Blame the ghettos on the host nation not the immigrants. Don't want the failures of France and Britain? Then educate people - particularly the young - about the positive aspects to a successful economy and society that immigrants make. A strike by first and second generation immigrants in Britain would bring the country to a halt. Don't want a situation in years to come where 2G Romanians in Ireland are supporting every team that Ireland plays in football? Then take the steps to ensure that immigrants and their native born children are assimilated into the country. Thankfully, IMO the majority of the Irish youth is far more sophisticated than it's counterpart in Britain fifty years ago.

[pete]

With referendum amendment passed 4 to 1 looks like foot.ie isn't representative of the mood of the country afterall :(

[Dodge]

Well with a foot.ie turnout of less than 5 percent, predictions can't be made ;)

[liamon]

Perhaps the reason that the No vote was high on foot.ie is that the issue was debated on here and people were infomed. Most people that I spoke ot who voted yes seem to have very little understanding of what they voted for.

I think the people suffered from a lack of communicaiton and real public debate on this issue.

But the world goes on and I'll get over this, just like I came to terms with the passing of the Nice treaty. I'm not still bitter over that. Even though the government ignored the democratic wishes of the electorate first time round. A further nail in the coffin of democracy. Not bitter at all... Honestly.......

[brendy_éire]

Northern Ireland isnt multi-cultural! Its simply two religions at each others throats.

You're as ignorant as the yanks. :rolleyes:

[tiktok]

You're as ignorant as the yanks. :rolleyes:

and with that sweeping generalisation you add yourself to the ranks of the ignorant :rolleyes:

[brendy_éire]

and with that sweeping generalisation you add yourself to the ranks of the ignorant :rolleyes:

Unfortunately, a yank has never proven themselves to be otherwise to me.
Still, great craic making them think that there are snipers watching them everywhere they go around Derry. :D

[liamon]

Unfortunately, a yank has never proven themselves to be otherwise to me.
Still, great craic making them think that there are snipers watching them everywhere they go around Derry. :D
So your hatred of capitalism now extends to all who practice it? It's a wonder why the N. Ireland toursim industry doesn't do well with help like that.

Or are you aginst the tourism industry as just another capitalist ploy?

[brendy_éire]

So your hatred of capitalism now extends to all who practice it? It's a wonder why the N. Ireland toursim industry doesn't do well with help like that.

Or are you aginst the tourism industry as just another capitalist ploy?

Wha? :confused:

[Plastic Paddy]

Unfortunately, a yank has never proven themselves to be otherwise to me.
Still, great craic making them think that there are snipers watching them everywhere they go around Derry. :D

****ing hilarious Brendy. And you know enough "yanks" well to have formed an in-depth opinion of them all, non? I didn't think so.

I bet you used to pull the wings off flies and the legs from spiders when you were a kid. Just for the craic, like. :rolleyes:

:ball: PP

[brendy_éire]

****ing hilarious Brendy. And you know enough "yanks" well to have formed an in-depth opinion of them all, non? I didn't think so.

Sorry PP, but I've no time for yanks. Been over there twice, met plenty of them over here. It's when ye get asked questions like "do you have running water/electricity?" "do you have a horse and cart?", or worst of all, after saying that I'm leaving in a few days, a yank goes "are you driving back?".

I give up on that country. :confused:

[Dodge]

Sorry PP, but I've no time for yanks. Been over there twice, met plenty of them over here. It's when ye get asked questions like "do you have running water/electricity?" "do you have a horse and cart?", or worst of all, after saying that I'm leaving in a few days, a yank goes "are you driving back?".

I give up on that country. :confused:
never been asked that myself in the US. Maybe they just know how easily you get wound up and do it to p|ss you off

If so, americans... I salute you

[pete]

Sorry PP, but I've no time for yanks. Been over there twice, met plenty of them over here. It's when ye get asked questions like "do you have running water/electricity?" "do you have a horse and cart?", or worst of all, after saying that I'm leaving in a few days, a yank goes "are you driving back?".

I give up on that country. :confused:

What part of the country were you in?

Was just over there the other week & only funny incident i remember was a yankie tourist in NY thinking a squirrel was a rabbit. :eek: :D

[Condex]

Aha, your family knows one person with a story.

I bow to your vast experience in this area.

There is nearly 2.5 billion people living in China and India
and I'm sure most of them if given a chance would like to live in Ireland

Is it your attitude to let them all in, I'm sure as your so nice you'll let a
few live with you.

Ireland should have a managed migration policy such as the one practiced by Australia, bring in required skilled workers and help them integrate.

[patsh]

Opinion: John Waters

'There is very little racism in Ireland ... There is, yes, some public concern about the drift of public policy on immigration and asylum seekers, but this is mainly down to fear of the unknown, and will not translate into support for the change ... The referendum will be roundly defeated, and the reasons should be obvious to anyone who has lived here for more than a year or two."

That's what I wrote about the citizenship referendum less than two months ago. I concluded: "The amendment, if it goes ahead at all, will be defeated three to one." If there was, as I once proposed, a league table for political forecasters, I would now be in the relegation zone. I could hardly have been more wrong on the result. But was I wrong, too, about the reasons behind it? Frankly, it doesn't matter how we intended it - it reads as a clear statement of unwelcome for those who come here in search of a better life.

Racism is just a word, one that has been grossly misused in a manner that has closed down the kind of discussion we needed to avoid precisely what has now occurred. Until last Friday, we were entitled to plead innocent to charges of xenophobia, but this result has given a concrete reality to what previously was no more than a ragbag of unaddressed sentiments. Now we can be presumed guilty until we prove ourselves innocent.

This amendment was, in political terms, so skilfully couched that it provided for deniability in respect of the motivation for supporting it. The genius of its construction was that it allowed its sponsors and supporters to plead that the issue was merely a little technocratic housekeeping in relation to a citizenship loophole. In reality, it was a divining rod in search of a malign political sentiment as destructive to those who harbour it as those against whom it is directed.

Over the course of the campaign, I wrote several columns opposing the amendment from a variety of perspectives - technical, ethical and political. Last week I met a man who told me: "You're missing the point. This is about keeping the ******* out." If he was right, we have many serious matters to consider.

For more than a generation, we've been engaged in a process described by its political sponsors as "modernisation". It included not merely economic development and changes in social mores, but, more fundamentally, an opening up to the wider world of European integration and transnational industrialisation.

This was always going to be a process of give and take. Unfortunately, the sponsors tended to emphasise the "take" aspects and dismiss questions about the "give" dimension as insularity or backwardness. The result is that the Irish people came to believe in the free lunch, and have lately become outraged to find themselves presented with a bill.

The relatively sudden transformation of Irish streets into minor melting pots, in which a multiplicity of skin colours and tongues has made manifest the reality of what "modernisation" actually means has greatly discomfited a large segment of the Irish public. It appears, moreover, that little distinction is being made between those who come to Ireland as economic migrants from what are now our partner states in the EU and those who come from outside as immigrants or asylum-seekers.

The subtext of this amendment was that we can have the bullfight and the bull home, that we can participate in the economic and cultural benefits of the world and not give anything back. In terms of the reality of where we are, the statement we have made is as useful as standing on Streedagh strand instructing the Atlantic to turn back.

In this there has been a monstrous abdication of leadership, of the responsibility to tell us that keeping the crock of gold meant honouring the rainbow. The same politicians who sold us, slice by slice, the salami of multinational dependency now seek to exploit the residual sentiment relating to a version of national autonomy they knew was being sold down the river.

There will be many collateral consequences of Friday's vote, not all of them bad.

One is that we can reasonably expect not to have to endure any more preaching from Michael McDowell about pluralism and inclusiveness.

Another is that the Catholic clergy must delve into its collective imagination in search of new material for Christmas sermons, the standard lecture about the wickedness of the innkeeper who turned away the Holy Family having been rendered redundant by the disgraceful fence-sitting of the Catholic hierarchy in this campaign.

A third is that Ireland can hope never again to become poor and have to send its children out into the world in search of livelihoods or opportunities.

Certainly, we have provided ourselves with a massive incentive to ensure such a fate never again befalls us. For now we have established a benchmark for the way we can expect our children to be treated if it does.




© The Irish Times

[lopez]

There is nearly 2.5 billion people living in China and India
and I'm sure most of them if given a chance would like to live in Ireland.THEY would like to live in Ireland? As someone who has emigrated, you should surely know that few would do it through choice. My parents, given the option would never have left either of their respective countries, met and produced such a handsome specimen as myself. People don't want to emigrate no more than a child abused by his/her parent wants another father/mother. They want the same ones but without the deficiencies.

[brendy_éire]

never been asked that myself in the US. Maybe they just know how easily you get wound up and do it to p|ss you off

Unfortunately not.


What part of the country were you in?

Massachusetts and California. I think they're worse in the west. Plus, they're completely ignorant of the fact that they drive SUVs when they don't need them. Global warming means nothing to them.

[Jim Smith]

Unfortunately not.


Plus, they're completely ignorant of the fact that they drive SUVs when they don't need them. Global warming means nothing to them.
There must be a massive American community in Cork then....

[liamon]

I work with a few non-nationals. Good people who work hard and contribute to the economic growth of this country. They're disgusted that any kid they have here would not have the same social rights as my son does.

But that's what we voted for. I'm so proud.

[pete]

Opinion: John Waters

© The Irish Times


I got a little further but the middle is a blur... :eek:

[Dodge]

I work with a few non-nationals. Good people who work hard and contribute to the economic growth of this country. They're disgusted that any kid they have here would not have the same social rights as my son does.

But that's what we voted for. I'm so proud.
In fairness, the kid would have the same social rights. He just couldn't become an Irish citizen until he's five...

[lopez]

In fairness, the kid would have the same social rights. He just couldn't become an Irish citizen until he's five...Which is better than France where he has to make a choice (ie. give his old citizenship up) when he's eighteen. Again is the application process for Irish citizenship being taken away or transformed into a German style blood only citizenship (good athletes and footballers naturally exempted of course)? If kids born in Ireland of foreign parents can still apply for Irish citizenship under residency rules at least then where's the discrimination and racism the weed-smokers are on about?

[Dodge]

I think the point several reasonable people made that this referendum result ow opens the doo for politicians to do what they like now. There's nopthing stopping the FF/PD government passing legislation making the citizenship by naturalisation period 15 years now (likewise succesive governments...)

My main problem wasn't with the idea behind this referendum (i.e. limiting citizenship) BUT I don't like it being at the whim of political parties

[liamon]

The right to an Irish passport for starters.

What they do/don't miss isn't the point. It's viewed as a very xenophobic move by foreign nationals. Then again, when the governemnt endorses fear and anger towards foreigners, it's to be expected. :(

As I know that last point is going to be picked up - my argument is that this referendum was proposed because of the fear that our maternity hospitals would be overrun by foreigners. Despite the doctors stating that this wasn't a problem, it was none the less the driving force behind the campaign to get a yes vote.

[lopez]

My main problem wasn't with the idea behind this referendum (i.e. limiting citizenship) BUT I don't like it being at the whim of political partiesA very good point and that is the danger of such an ambiguous change in teh constitution. Hopefully as many of the TDs were against this vote they will at least see that fair legislation is approved and that this will only curtail 'citizenship tourism' and not the legal immigrants and their children who want to join the Irish nation.

The right to an Irish passport for starters.But not the right to travel, nor to citizenship of their parents' country(ies).

[pete]

There's nopthing stopping the FF/PD government passing legislation making the citizenship by naturalisation period 15 years now (likewise succesive governments...)

My main problem wasn't with the idea behind this referendum (i.e. limiting citizenship) BUT I don't like it being at the whim of political parties

If the irish people disagree with that they will not re-elect them to office. Thats how democracy works?

[Dodge]

If the irish people disagree with that they will not re-elect them to office. Thats how democracy works?
No, parties are voted on on a huge variety of issues (Sinn Fein excepted obviously) I'm not sayng it will happen, I just don't like the idea that its possible

[Condex]

I'm not sure I follow your logic. So, if I said 'more rights for homosexuals' you'd say 'well, have sex with a few'. Or if I said 'equal pay for women' you'd say 'pay it out of your pocket'? The argument that they should come live with me is (i) cute but (ii) laughably nonsensical. For a start, I'm living with the in-laws while the house is being finished...

That's as far as I got.

(laughably nonsensical) Very good, your not comparing like with like,
I sure your new home will be your castle, but its natural for people to be territorial unless you live in a commune which few people do.

Are you advocating an open-door policy because if you are take a look at London, this is a city where peoples sense of community and identity lies with there country of origin rather than the host country, this causes resentment in the host population. Some of these people do not want to integrate but instead want to live separate lives in their own communities.

Is this the kind of mutli-cultural society you want for Ireland, because once
this policy is set in train there is no way in the future to ask anyone to leave

Trevor Phillips of the CRE(Commission for Racial Equality) is telling us that
multiculturalism is a discredited idea, and that integration is the way forard.

[eoinh]

There is nearly 2.5 billion people living in China and India
and I'm sure most of them if given a chance would like to live in Ireland



The amount of immigrants Ireland gets is Tiny. Indians are free to travel (india is a democracy) if they want to. the reason you see hardly any indians living in ireland is simply because the vast majority DONT want to live here.