Thank you

[liam88]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3781691.stm
Thank you lads :)

[brendy_éire]

Good shout,Liam.....the only time I would give the Allied Forces & Brits.any credit is re.the 2 World wars(Though was tainted,post-1916),when all right-minded people around the world fought v.Fascism.....

The whole D-Day thing rags me, to be honest. People actually believe that the Allies (that is, the brits and the yanks) were the 'heroes' of WWII who saved the world from Hitler.
No-one seems to remember that the Allies left the USSR to fend for itself for 2 years. Churchill actually wanted the Nazis to take Russia, and I'm sure Roosevelt wouldn't have been too bothered either. They left eastern Europe to be conquered by the Nazis. 20 million Russians died during WWII ("One death is a tradegy, a million is a statistic" - Stalin). 20 ****ing million people. It's impossible to comprehend.
The failure of the Allies to act early led directly to deaths of millions of extra people.
Their failure to act earlier led Stalin to believe, correctly so, that they hated Russia and wanted an end to the USSR.
This led to Stalin becoming obsessed with Russian security. His plan was to create a 'buffer zone' on Russia's western border.
This buffer zone comprised of states loyal to Moscow, hence the division of Europe.
The Allies then seen the USSR as agressive and feared being attacked.
This led to the beginning of the Cold War proper, which led to the arms race and the formation of NATO and the Warsaw Pact.
These tensions led to the Korean War, the Vietnam War, US involvement in South and Central America.
Now the US see it fit to involved themselves in the affairs of practically every nation on earth. (Iraq, anyone?)

So what are we left with because of the Allies dislike/hatred/indifference to the USSR? Hundreds of millions of people dead, trillions upon trillions wasted on arms, enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world 50 times over placed in the hands of lunic fascists (Bush, Sharon, etc), and a world dominated by what surely must be the most destructive empire the world has seen.

"Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction."

[A face]

The whole D-Day thing rags me, to be honest. .......
"Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction."

That is a strong opinion !!

[lopez]

The whole D-Day thing rags me, to be honest..."Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction."Keep taking the medication, mate! :rolleyes:

[Duncan Gardner]

Do you think the Free State govt. during 1939-45 was other than right-minded, Davros? Personally I think they acted sensibly (ie, benovolent neutrality favouring Britain and America).

Brendy. You don't mention that

a) Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia were actually nominal allies until summer 1942

b) America had only entered the war in December 1941 and faced enemies on two fronts both thousands of miles away

c) Britain likewise was fighting on another broad front in North Africa, so

d) their capacity to help the Soviet Union was limited at the time (though of course the allied leaders were already planning the post-war situation from the Teheran conference in 1943).

The key battle of WW2 was Stalingrad, though reading you one would think it was the Creggan estate :mad:

[Plastic Paddy]

The key battle of WW2 was Stalingrad, though reading you one would think it was the Creggan estate :mad:

Exactly. Well put DG.

Brendy, like it or not, yesterday was about people. About young men who went off to fight for what they perceived to be right. And our presence here today is at least in part thanks to them. They should be remembered and honoured for that. There really is no other agenda to consider at this juncture.

:( PP

[brendy_éire]

a) Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia were actually nominal allies until summer 1942

The Nazi-Soviet Pact was only signed by Stalin after the Brits, the French and the Yanks refused to sign anything with him. Stalin was terrified of the consquences of being invaded again and done everything he could to avoid war.
Both Hitler and Stalin knew that it was just a temporary measure to delay conflict. Hitler didn't want a war on 2 fronts. Stalin didn't want a war because he had just finished off the purging of his military command.


d) their capacity to help the Soviet Union was limited at the time (though of course the allied leaders were already planning the post-war situation from the Teheran conference in 1943).

The key battle of WW2 was Stalingrad, though reading you one would think it was the Creggan estate :mad:

Fair enough, they had other areas where they were fighting, but it doesn't change the fact that they left the USSR and the rest of eastern Europe for dead. Stalin pleaded time and time again for the Allies to open a western front. They delayed. Meanwhile tens of millions of people were being slaughtered in eastern Europe. That's what I mean by my inaction comment.
Not sure what ye mean by the last sentence there.


Brendy, like it or not, yesterday was about people. About young men who went off to fight for what they perceived to be right.

But it was also about glorifying the likes of Churchill for winning the war. Which of course he didn't, it was Stalin and the Red Army. Not many tributes being paid to him though, is there? :rolleyes:

[Plastic Paddy]

But it was also about glorifying the likes of Churchill for winning the war. Which of course he didn't, it was Stalin and the Red Army. Not many tributes being paid to him though, is there? :rolleyes:

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. All I observed were several old and infirm men in many cases deep in thought, and many others paying due respect to them. I don't think it was really a day for triumphalism or jingoism, as you seem to suggest.

:ball: PP

[liam88]

Lots of Irish people lost relatives in the war-like PP said it's about the PEOPLE-relative of mine died in the blitz -or so we think :(

Ok this is really off the subject (and a bit more cheery) but I found a thread that PP is posting on and as he hasn't replied to ma private message ( :rolleyes:) I'll promt him here;
check out the link mate-if we post it on the forum I'll see you good for a pint of the black stuff at Fulham :)

[lopez]

But it was also about glorifying the likes of Churchill for winning the war. Which of course he didn't, it was Stalin and the Red Army. Not many tributes being paid to him though, is there? :rolleyes:I'm sorry mate, but with you putting such a gloss on Uncle Joe, I think it's about time someone eulogises another mass murderer...sorry...misunderstood statesman, namely Adolf Hitler.

Hitler loved children and dogs.

Hitler was forced into a war by a bad childhood.

Hitler didn't kill 6 million Jews: He didn't kill anyone as my good literary hero David Irving proves.

Despite myself and Sylvo visiting Auschwitz in April and seeing plenty of evidence to undermine Irving's sh*t, I now believe it was all a Hollywood show, financed by ZOG's agents in tinseltown.

Normally for posting such sh*te I'd deserve a straight red from dahamsta. But as it's 'support a mass murdering tyrant day' I thought I'd join in the fun.

As my good, left leaning mate Rock On Tommy said on a tour to Uncle Joe's home town in Georgia in March 2003, when he was given a similar eulogy of the great man to Brendy's by the tour guide: 'The guy was the worst mass murderer in history, man! The piece of sh*t doesn't get a bad enough press!'

[Lux Interior]

I'm sorry mate, but with you putting such a gloss on Uncle Joe, I think it's about time someone eulogises another mass murderer...sorry...misunderstood statesman, namely Adolf Hitler.

Hitler loved children and dogs.

Hitler was forced into a war by a bad childhood.

Hitler didn't kill 6 million Jews: He didn't kill anyone as my good literary hero David Irving proves.

Despite myself and Sylvo visiting Auschwitz in April and seeing plenty of evidence to undermine Irving's sh*t, I now believe it was all a Hollywood show, financed by ZOG's agents in tinseltown.

Normally for posting such sh*te I'd deserve a straight red from dahamsta. But as it's 'support a mass murdering tyrant day' I thought I'd join in the fun.

As my good, left leaning mate Rock On Tommy said on a tour to Uncle Joe's home town in Georgia in March 2003, when he was given a similar eulogy of the great man to Brendy's by the tour guide: 'The guy was the worst mass murderer in history, man! The piece of sh*t doesn't get a bad enough press!'

:)

I'm feeling your disdain here, lopez, but I've yet to pick myself up off the floor after Che's 'little gem' about Uncle Joe winning the second world war.

[lopez]

I'm feeling your disdain here, lopez, but I've yet to pick myself up off the floor after Che's 'little gem' about Uncle Joe winning the second world war.Oh I hear similar sentiments round these parts about Britain doing the same which have me in tears as well. ;)

[Peadar]

he hasn't replied to ma private message

You've exceeded your limit Liam and have to delete some messages before anyone can send you any.

[Plastic Paddy]

You've exceeded your limit Liam and have to delete some messages before anyone can send you any.

Exactly. :p Liam.

;) PP

[brendy_éire]

I'm sorry mate, but with you putting such a gloss on Uncle Joe

Of course you chose to completely ignore the point I was getting at. None of the Allied leaders should be praised for their actions during WWII. If you want to praise anyone, praise Stalin's efforts. He was the 'best' leader of WWII. He had a successful battle plan and a sheer disregard for human life. All the qualities you'd expect in a superb military commander.


'The guy was the worst mass murderer in history, man! The piece of sh*t doesn't get a bad enough press!'

Yep, killed millions. Never let someone with a mental illness such as he had into power. And always create a power structure that would prevent that from happening. For instance, chances are that if, say, George Bush or Thatcher were able to, they'd have been just as bad as Stalin. However, there are structures in place to prevent that happening to the same extent as Stalin was allowed.

As for thinking that the USSR won WWII, they did. It was the Red Army that 'liberated' (cos that's the word everyone uses, isn't it?) eastern Europe. It was the Red Army that took Berlin. Churchill himself admitted that it was the Red Army that broke the German war machine.

[liam88]

You've exceeded your limit Liam and have to delete some messages before anyone can send you any.
Sorted-sorry about that lads :rolleyes:
PP I found another way to wind up the limeys as well as stealing their Georges crosses ;) 5-foot tri on the front of the house :p

[Plastic Paddy]

PP I found another way to wind up the limeys as well as stealing their Georges crosses ;) 5-foot tri on the front of the house :p

You'll get lynched in your neck of the woods for that, no? :D

And as for your PM, go ahead, just don't name names. Keep 'em all guessing, that's what I say. :)

:D PP

[liam88]

You'll get lynched in your neck of the woods for that, no? :D

Aye-during the world cup they managed to climb on the roof at night and rip one of em off-(we had one on each corner of the house) :mad:
Putting this one right on top-if we catch people trying to get up then we just chase 'em down the road with hurleys :D



And as for your PM, go ahead, just don't name names. Keep 'em all guessing, that's what I say. :)

:D PP

Aye sounds good-I'll stick the addy in a new thread.

[lopez]

Of course you chose to completely ignore the point I was getting at. None of the Allied leaders should be praised for their actions during WWII. If you want to praise anyone, praise Stalin's efforts. He was the 'best' leader of WWII. He had a successful battle plan and a sheer disregard for human life. All the qualities you'd expect in a superb military commander.Excuse me. I thought we were talking about the freeing France and western Europe from fascism, not who was the best leader of the war based on their psychopathic quota. Well if it's like that then Hitler's got to be the 'best' war time leader as he managed to cause 50 million deaths in six years. And as for who won the war, Adolf get's my vote again: Fighting a war on two fronts while declaring war on the US in sympathy with their 'honorary' aryan friends in the far east certainly put paid to any hope of winning. :rolleyes:

[Duncan Gardner]

Brendy. I read your comments above as a scattergun rant against the Brits prompted by your own general attitude to them based on growing up in Derry.

The commemoration of D Day is a completely separate issue, has been sensitively covered by the media in Britain, France, Germany and Russia, and is inter alia a preparation for the VE event next year- which will fully involve the Germans and Russians.

As for uncle Joe Stalin, he was widely regarded- at the time, and not least by himself- as a pretty limited military strategist. Apart from the moral aspects of scorched earth and the rest, butchering most of your generals and colonels when it's clearly about to kick off on your western border doesn't suggest brilliance...

[brendy_éire]

Brendy. I read your comments above as a scattergun rant against the Brits prompted by your own general attitude to them based on growing up in Derry.

I see the all Allies as failing in WWII. And I don't believe my views are prompted by living in Derry, they're being prompted by reading the history of WWII. It was disgraceful the way they held off opening a western front for so long, leaving eastern Europe to fight alone and suffer under German occupation. Then they have to audacity to claim that they alone defeated the Nazis. The fact of the matter is that they let millions of eastern Europeans (including the Jews) die at the hands of the Germans, their failure to act led to the subsquent division of Euope, and the Cold War, yet they still try to claim all the glory.

[liam88]

You'll get lynched in your neck of the woods for that, no? :D


I'm gonna pool together with my brother and get us one of these (http://www.worldflagshop.co.uk/acatalog/Flag_Poles.html) (the bootm one) for the garden-that'll be really good :D

O btw my Four Provinces flag finally came through :D so we can briong that to Fulham as a doubt a certain member who favoured the top left hand corner will be bringing his along to cheer us on that day :D

[liamon]

Where do i start?

I see the all Allies as failing in WWII. .
They didn't fail, they won. Mistakes were made, but that's war for you.

It was disgraceful the way they held off opening a western front for so long, . Having just emerged from the horror of WWI, it was hardly surprising that they didn't rush into a second one. Rushing into a battle even though you haven't been attacked is not a good idea. Ask Bush/Blair.


Then they have to audacity to claim that they alone defeated the Nazis. ....
Don't think anyone claims they won the war alone. The major battle was Stalingrad, but the war involved many improtant battles.
I don't think they knew the full horror of nazism in the early days of the war an dthe rest of your rant is wide open to debate and argument. But it's late on Friday and I'm tired of typing