Republic of Ireland V Uruguay - Tuesday, 29th March 2011 - Friendly

[Stuttgart88]

Duffer is going to be coming to the end of his career

I'm blocking my ears and closing my eyes.

[paul_oshea]

I think Geysir's conspiracy theory wrt new formation might hold water! Trap can point to no improvement and some people will be too thick to realise that the formation didn't contain players suited to the roles they were allocated.

i was thinking this, try it out its a win win situation because of the opposition and because of the inexperience of the team. But trap said he would give him more opporunities and in different positions after the game.

[Stuttgart88]

Who? McCarthy?

Anyway, formations are fluid, or ought to be. What you really need is a mix of players whose skills complement each other. Ball winners, ball users, wide players....

Even in this age of 4-5-1, if I had the squad that qualified for WC02 available, I'd pick 4-4-2 all day long. As has been said before, Keane & Doyle being almost undroppable almost forces us into 4-4-2. but the problem is that the middle of the 4 aren't doing what they need to do.

Anyway, steven.reid@wba.co.uk ...

[tetsujin1979]

Ifk101 i was going to read your post but I just couldn't be arsed :D Only joking

I think if we take the lead in Macedonia with 20 mins or so to go to ensure we close out the game then taking keane off and putting on mccarthy might be an option. Pack the midfield i mean because without the ball I don't see us not conceding.
We tried something similar in Macedonia before. It didn't work out.

[Noelys Guitar]

Keogh will go the way of Miller and McShane and for the same reasons. Simply not good enough. McShane's attitude has always been spot on but his general play at this level is just not good enough. Trap eased both Miller and McShane out. Last night would have been an ideal time to have a look Wilson, Walters and Best but for various reasons that did was not to be. I'm sure Trap would have played all three at some stage during the game. Perfect timing in a way that we have the two games against NI and Scotland coming up. We are sure to suffer some injuries before the Macedonia game so players like O'Dea, Foley, Westwood, Long and a few others are getting used to what is expected of them.

[Noelys Guitar]

Who? McCarthy?

Anyway, formations are fluid, or ought to be. What you really need is a mix of players whose skills complement each other. Ball winners, ball users, wide players....

Even in this age of 4-5-1, if I had the squad that qualified for WC02 available, I'd pick 4-4-2 all day long. As has been said before, Keane & Doyle being almost undroppable almost forces us into 4-4-2. but the problem is that the middle of the 4 aren't doing what they need to do.

Anyway, steven.reid@wba.co.uk ...

Thats not a bad idea Stuttgart. If the player himself declared he wanted to come back and felt fully fit...let him know we want him back.

[Noelys Guitar]

“Long showed us at club level he is good enough, but he has grown, with personality, now we consider him as a valuable option,” said Trapattoni, who included Fahey, Andy Keogh and goalkeeper Keiren Westwood as players worthy of his trust in June when Ireland travel to Macedonia for their Euro 2012 qualifier in Skopje.

I'm completely wrong about Trap's view of Keogh.

[DeLorean]

I think if we take the lead in Macedonia with 20 mins or so to go to ensure we close out the game then taking keane off and putting on mccarthy might be an option


We tried something similar in Macedonia before. It didn't work out.

I'd be wary too, we've had enough Keane/McCarthy catastrophes! :o

[Kingdom]

Straying a bit away from the match last night, but the conversation has vered that way.....

with regard to the nations cup - is it likely Trap will pick the same team twice in a bid for continuity, ironing out selectional issues etc, immediately prior to the Macedonia game (at the end of a season) or is he likely to pick the strongest team against the NIron, play an alternative against Scotland resting the majority?

[SwanVsDalton]

I'd say somewhere between the two, depending on who's available. I could see him rotating in a couple of positions between matches, perhaps with Kelly/Foley, O'Dea/Sledge, Kilbane/Clark, Gibson/Fahey, Andrews/Whelan, Westwood/Given, Long/Doyle all given a start or serious gametime. But I'd hope whatever changes are with a view to getting the right starting XI and system for the Macedonian game.

[paul_oshea]

I'd be wary too, we've had enough Keane/McCarthy catastrophes! :o

That was over 10 years ago! :D

[DeLorean]

That was over 10 years ago! :D

Time hasn't healed the wounds like one would have hoped :(

[Junior]

That was over 10 years ago! :D

Wanna borrow my calculator Paul?

[DeLorean]

Wanna borrow my calculator Paul?

Paul may be talking about the Macedonia game where we were pegged back to 1-1, benefit of the doubt!!

[Duggie]

i think this is the team i would start with in macedonia. Westwood stays as given hasnt played in how long. Kilbane just for now i think, fahey for whelan only cause gibson could potentially knock one in from long range so whelan would drop out for fahey. Long for doyle cause hes more of a goal threat and is in red hot form.

-------------------Westwood-----------------------
Foley-------O'Shea-------St Ledger-----------Kilbane
Duff--------Gibson--------Fahey--------------McGeady
------------Keane--------Long------------------------

[the bear]

Westwood : the real deal, serious alternative to shay after these showings

Foley : good on the ball, poor positional would benefit from being part of a better back 4
Kelly : not a centre half
O'dea : blows hot and cold, mostly cold last night
Clark : similiar to foley, felt he passed up a good opportunity to nail down the LB spot last night, should of stuck to the basics, kilbane will be back

Lawrence : not his best game, good cross + diagonal through ball. would like to see him in a more central role
Fahey : has to start center mid in macedonia
Green : not up to it, like his attitude though
Mccarthy : neat and tidy without doing to much, should come off the bench in macedonia
Keogh : don't really fancy him as a striker but defo not a winger

Long : absoloutley fantastic performance, gave the 2 cbs a nightmare, seems to much prefer being on his own up top. how do we fit him into the team?

mcgeady: class, definite starter now
treacy: looks good should of been in ahead of keogh
gibson: didn't do much
delaney: hard to say, did nothin wrong
stokes: wasnt on long enough

[Junior]

Paul may be talking about the Macedonia game where we were pegged back to 1-1, benefit of the doubt!!

Ah fair do's - I shouldnt be earwigging!

Did Keane/Mccarthy have a bust up after that game? Was at it myself but I dont recall.

[Junior]

i think this is the team i would start with in macedonia. Westwood stays as given hasnt played in how long. Kilbane just for now i think, fahey for whelan only cause gibson could potentially knock one in from long range so whelan would drop out for fahey. Long for doyle cause hes more of a goal threat and is in red hot form.

-------------------Westwood-----------------------
Foley-------O'Shea-------St Ledger-----------Kilbane
Duff--------Gibson--------Fahey--------------McGeady
------------Keane--------Long------------------------

From a defensive point of view that would be a complete disaster - Not a chance in hell it will happen nor would I want it to.

[Stuttgart88]

That was over 10 years ago! :DIn the context of the other thread "Poor Crowds" I think one of the post-Saipan consequences is that the team stopped being the peoples' team from that moment on. The many Keanites felt the rest of the team were traitors. As the noughties developed the high-earning players became too precious to watch Kerr's DVDs; some retired to focus on their clubs and the bond between team and public was broken. Saipan lives on I'm afraid.

Qualification and a good showing in the next tourny, especially with a young bunch of mainly home-grown players would help heal those wounds. The press might even get to like Trap who, despite all his conservatism, I find a very entertaining & engaging bloke.

[irishultra]

From a defensive point of view that would be a complete disaster - Not a chance in hell it will happen nor would I want it to.

the only dm we really have is whelan the rest of them are only dms cause trap decided they were, paul green as has been mentioned is not a defensive mid, andrews isnt a defensive mid so dont see what difference it is

[paul_oshea]

Paul may be talking about the Macedonia game where we were pegged back to 1-1, benefit of the doubt!!

I was hence the try and play out for the draw as we went ahead and stayed ahead all game till the final minute but they had been applying a lot of pressure.

The other one where we "did a macedonia" and lost 3-2 we were ahead only a short period. However I think im confused now, because both of those were over 10 years ago!!!!

[Stuttgart88]

Noely was only in his 40s.

[Junior]

I was hence the try and play out for the draw as we went ahead and stayed ahead all game till the final minute but they had been applying a lot of pressure.

The other one where we "did a macedonia" and lost 3-2 we were ahead only a short period. However I think im confused now, because both of those were over 10 years ago!!!!

I've caused the confusion - I thought you were referencing a Keane/McCarthy bust up - "I had a Macedonia"........

[paul_oshea]

Ah don't worry about it junior, easily done :D

[Noelys Guitar]

Noely was only in his 40s.

Second row, third left. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09jvRjdHFwE

[Angus]

I thought that was a bloody good game - very enjoyable

[Crosby87]

Second row, third left. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09jvRjdHFwE

Some of those comments are hilarious.

[Duggie]

From a defensive point of view that would be a complete disaster - Not a chance in hell it will happen nor would I want it to.

ya i kinda agree but our options in there are limited, whelan was brilliant with steven reid but he seems to have gone backwards. Gibson gives the ball away a lot but he does offer a goal threat with his shooting when he gets it right, and fahey has composure on the ball and also has a good long range shot/ free kick delivery etc. I suppose if they played trap would have to have them working extra hard on defence also.

[Kingdom]

Whelan offers just as much of a goal threat as Darron Gibson does in fairness.

[shakermaker1982]

Fahey IMO starts from now on. We just need to find a defensive midfielder to do the dirty work.

I also hope the Trap gives McCarthy a start in central midfield in May to see how he gets on. The number 10 role didn't suit him.

[Duggie]

Whelan offers just as much of a goal threat as Darron Gibson does in fairness.

im not so sure, im a fan of whelan but i think he hasnt had a good last few games. When gibson gets it right like against wales and on a good few occasions for Utd hes worth a few goals. the whelan/reid combination was so promising but its no more unfortunately. im not against selecting whelan.

[Kingdom]

im not so sure, im a fan of whelan but i think he hasnt had a good last few games. When gibson gets it right like against wales and on a good few occasions for Utd hes worth a few goals. the whelan/reid combination was so promising but its no more unfortunately. im not against selecting whelan.

Like you, I've been a fan of Glenn, but he's been on the slide the last couple of games. Whether that's down to the dross beside him, or a general malaise remains to be seen.

I'd like to see Whelan and Fahey paired against the North. Or Fahey McCarthy.

[Stuttgart88]

maybe this'd go some way to fixing the midfield problem:

-----GK-----
RB-CB-CB-LB
3 man midfield
McG--Centre forward--Duff

3 man midfield options:

Lawrence--McCarthy--Fahey

McCarthy--Gibson--Fahey

McCarthy --Whelan--Fahey

and so on.

Centre forward: Doyle, Long or Keane obviously

[paul_oshea]

17 pages for a friendly, I think that shows how much the last couple of weeks have increased our excitement about the team and players in general.

[ifk101]

Fahey IMO starts from now on. We just need to find a defensive midfielder to do the dirty work.

Marc Wilson?

[Kingdom]

maybe this'd go some way to fixing the midfield problem:

-----GK-----
RB-CB-CB-LB
3 man midfield
McG--Centre forward--Duff

3 man midfield options:

Lawrence--McCarthy--Fahey

McCarthy--Gibson--Fahey

McCarthy --Whelan--Fahey

and so on.

Centre forward: Doyle, Long or Keane obviously
gk
RB CB CB LB

McCarthy Fahey
AmcG

long Duff
Doyle

[Stuttgart88]

17 pages for a friendly, I think that shows how much the last couple of weeks have increased our excitement about the team and players in general.

or how bored we are at work!

Anyway, looks like Trap wants to stay on beyond this campaign.

[Crosby87]

Anyway, looks like Trap wants to stay on beyond this campaign.

If healthy do you think Duff and Keane will also have another go? Any chance a player like Dunne or JOSH would retire from Int'l after this campaign?

[paul_oshea]

Fahey IMO starts from now on. We just need to find a defensive midfielder to do the dirty work.

I also hope the Trap gives McCarthy a start in central midfield in May to see how he gets on. The number 10 role didn't suit him.

Shaker yer a man after me own heart! I find you saying exactly what im thinking recently...eh excuse if that sounds a bit eh.... :D

My posts may reduct considerably from now on....to cheers of applause :)

I really do think if we had a DM, a really good one, i know longer think we need anything else, then we could play 4-4-2 with Mccarthy or Fahey. I don't think with whelan in there we are good enough to play the other two. But as things stand i think Mcarthy or fahey could play in a 4-3-3 or a 4-5-1 or whatever, basically pack out the midfield.

I think after the last showing, again a little unfair and maybe irrational, but lawrence doesn't really do it as a winger in traps formation, so perhaps we could try him in midfield, again it woud be in a 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 ideally.

Just great that we have these options now(formation and players, but the formations are not mutually exclusive, i think they are dependent on one another i.e. the best players dictate the system/formation).

[paul_oshea]

Like you, I've been a fan of Glenn, but he's been on the slide the last couple of games. Whether that's down to the dross beside him, or a general malaise remains to be seen.

I'd like to see Whelan and Fahey paired against the North. Or Fahey McCarthy.

Do you think maybe when he came on the scene he was trying a little bit harder? I mean now he might be getting a little complacent as he knows he is always selected and he isn't fighting out for the other midfield slot, and when he comes back from injury he is always first there....

I think if he was dropped for a couple of games we could see improvement, like has happened at stoke recently.

[paul_oshea]

gk
RB CB CB LB

McCarthy Fahey
AmcG

long Duff
Doyle

We would get destroyed defensively, though against a team like macedonia where conceding would be ok as we could easily score enough to outnumber (outscore) them.

Begs the question do you think Trap should change the system/players based on the opposition? I know consistency etc etc, but our football would improve and it would make me a hell of a lot less nervous watching us playing the lower middle ranked team such as Macedonia.

[Noelys Guitar]

I just can't see Trap changing systems from 4-4-2. Not with Doyle, Long, Keane, Best and Walters pushing for places. Which means we need McCarthy or Mayler or a.n.other to step up. Former still injured McCarthy probably not quite ready yet. Fahey very similar style to Mark Kinsella. Would have dovetailed perfectly with Roy Keane. Whelan is not improving (seems to be getting slower and slower). Gibson is vying with Fahey. Green played OK on Tuesday but not the answer either. Realistically I can't see Steven Reid coming back (which is a real pity). I have a feeling O'Hara will be in the next squad. Probably slightly better player than what we currently have in CM. Constantly looks/shouts for the ball and has an arrogance about him. Trap will like that. An inferior Andy Townsend but maybe the player who could slot in beside Fahey or Gibson short-term.

[ifk101]

I just can't see Trap changing systems from 4-4-2. Not with Doyle, Long, Keane, Best and Walters pushing for places. Which means we need McCarthy or Mayler or a.n.other to step up. Former still injured McCarthy probably not quite ready yet. Fahey very similar style to Mark Kinsella. Would have dovetailed perfectly with Roy Keane. Whelan is not improving (seems to be getting slower and slower). Gibson is vying with Fahey. Green played OK on Tuesday but not the answer either. Realistically I can't see Steven Reid coming back (which is a real pity). I have a feeling O'Hara will be in the next squad. Probably slightly better player than what we currently have in CM. Constantly looks/shouts for the ball and has an arrogance about him. Trap will like that. An inferior Andy Townsend but maybe the player who could slot in beside Fahey or Gibson short-term.

Fahey very similar style to Mark Kinsella???

O'Hara will not be in the next squad. Or any future squad under Trapattoni for that matter.

[Noelys Guitar]

Fahey very similar style to Mark Kinsella???

O'Hara will not be in the next squad. Or any future squad under Trapattoni for that matter.

Well argued. You make some good points.

[ifk101]

Well argued. You make some good points.

I don't see a similar between Fahey and Kinsella in terms of playing style hence question marks if you wished to elaborate on that point. Evidently not.

O'Hara has made it clear he doesn't want to play for us. Trapattoni has mentioned the importance of commitment. Put 2 and 2 together .....

[Noelys Guitar]

I don't see a similar between Fahey and Kinsella in terms of playing style hence question marks if you wished to elaborate on that point. Evidently not.

O'Hara has made it clear he doesn't want to play for us. Trapattoni has mentioned the importance of commitment. Put 2 and 2 together .....

Sunday Indo march 20th
As importantly, there is openness in their communication with Trapattoni. He has a good relationship with John Delaney and the FAI believe he is the most straightforward manager they have worked with since Jack Charlton.

Trapattoni was happy to take suggestions and the process was put in place for a meeting which, despite the ongoing comments of Martinez, should ensure that nobody is left questioning McCarthy's commitment to Ireland.

Trapattoni may now meet other players who he has been repeatedly questioned about. FAI sources suggested last week that he would soon try and sit down with Jamie O'Hara, the Wolves midfielder.

[SwanVsDalton]

We would get destroyed defensively, though against a team like macedonia where conceding would be ok as we could easily score enough to outnumber (outscore) them.

Mostly agree with this.


Begs the question do you think Trap should change the system/players based on the opposition? I know consistency etc etc, but our football would improve and it would make me a hell of a lot less nervous watching us playing the lower middle ranked team such as Macedonia.

I know what you mean, but there's no guarantee a change of system will make us any more at ease. In fact, I think that comes from the idea that we should steamroller the likes of Macedonia - and I don't necessarily see why we should be.

Sure, if everything clicked on the night - we got the right goals at the right times, took our chances - we could win these games comfortably. But take a look at Macedonia's results over the past five years in any game (including friendlies). From Soccerbase, I gathered they've only lost three times by more than a single goal - Scotland away in 2009 (2-0); Holland away, 09 (4-0); Russia away, 07 (3-0). In that time the likes of Spain and England couldn't spank them.

Again I'm not saying we couldn't put up a good score against these guys, but it would be the exception not the rule. In general, no one has an easy time against Macedonia (and I believe it's probably the same for other awkward sides). And the system wouldn't necessarily change that. I believe nervy times is just the nature of European Qualifying football when you're a just above average team like ourselves.

Also - while a change of system/personnel/tactics might make us control the ball a bit better, and so make us less nervous, I still don't think it's automatically that simple against teams like Macedonia. It was only a couple of years, as Euro Champs, that Spain beat them 3-2 after coming from two behind.

[ifk101]

Sunday Indo march 20th
As importantly, there is openness in their communication with Trapattoni. He has a good relationship with John Delaney and the FAI believe he is the most straightforward manager they have worked with since Jack Charlton.

Trapattoni was happy to take suggestions and the process was put in place for a meeting which, despite the ongoing comments of Martinez, should ensure that nobody is left questioning McCarthy's commitment to Ireland.

Trapattoni may now meet other players who he has been repeatedly questioned about. FAI sources suggested last week that he would soon try and sit down with Jamie O'Hara, the Wolves midfielder.

“It’s important that he makes a clear indication of his desire.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0315/1224292163042.html

“Two or three years ago I went with Liam Brady and met O’Hara,” he said. “These things don’t usually make the news but they happen in the background. He was at Portsmouth and I went into the dressing room but at the time he hadn’t made a decision.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2011/0314/1224292126533.html


Do you really think Trapattoni is still waiting on O'Hara to commit after two to three years?

[Noelys Guitar]

“It’s important that he makes a clear indication of his desire.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0315/1224292163042.html

“Two or three years ago I went with Liam Brady and met O’Hara,” he said. “These things don’t usually make the news but they happen in the background. He was at Portsmouth and I went into the dressing room but at the time he hadn’t made a decision.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2011/0314/1224292126533.html


Do you really think Trapattoni is still waiting on O'Hara to commit after two to three years?

No I don't. But I do believe he will be meeting with O"Hara the next time he is in England. Whether it comes to anything is down to O'Hara's genuine desire to play for Ireland or not.

[paul_oshea]

Mostly agree with this.



I know what you mean, but there's no guarantee a change of system will make us any more at ease. In fact, I think that comes from the idea that we should steamroller the likes of Macedonia - and I don't necessarily see why we should be.

Sure, if everything clicked on the night - we got the right goals at the right times, took our chances - we could win these games comfortably. But take a look at Macedonia's results over the past five years in any game (including friendlies). From Soccerbase, I gathered they've only lost three times by more than a single goal - Scotland away in 2009 (2-0); Holland away, 09 (4-0); Russia away, 07 (3-0). In that time the likes of Spain and England couldn't spank them.

Again I'm not saying we couldn't put up a good score against these guys, but it would be the exception not the rule. In general, no one has an easy time against Macedonia (and I believe it's probably the same for other awkward sides). And the system wouldn't necessarily change that. I believe nervy times is just the nature of European Qualifying football when you're a just above average team like ourselves.

Also - while a change of system/personnel/tactics might make us control the ball a bit better, and so make us less nervous, I still don't think it's automatically that simple against teams like Macedonia. It was only a couple of years, as Euro Champs, that Spain beat them 3-2 after coming from two behind.

You have qualified it with the last bit, we can beat macedonia by 1-0 or 2-1, I said outscore them. I didn't say we would win by 3 or 4 goals. Most definitely over the last 5 years have teams improved that there is a consistent level, i was just chatting about this to a guy at work, lots of different reasons really, but most of these teams all seem to be more comfortable on the ball than us, better in tight spaces, yet we are ahead in rankings and are considered the favourite. Now that is another really interesting point but back to the original which was that if we keep possesion from them play it about a bit, i reckon we would create more chances, we would ease the pressure, and it would certainly make it more comfortable to watch :)

We are our own worst enemy in these situtations really.