Celtic Cup thread

[gspain]

Celtic Cup will be shown on Sky 3d.

Date changes as follows


Republic of Ireland v Northern Ireland Tue, May 24 2011 Aviva Stadium KO 7.45pm

Scotland v Wales Wed, May 25, 2011 Aviva Stadium KO 7.45 pm

Wales v Northern Ireland Fri, May 27, 2011 Aviva Stadium KO 7.45 pm

Republic of Ireland v Scotland Sun, May 29, 2011 Aviva Stadium KO 6.30 pm



Source

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=101465:carling-nations-cup-announces-broadcast-partnership-with-sky-sports-3d&catid=1:senior-men&Itemid=8

[ArdeeBhoy]

Thanks for the update GS. Know people who've booked up to go to games, on the old dates.
The FAI really are being knobs about a completely pointless competition, especially just to take Murdoch's shilling.

[Supreme feet]

I'm actually looking forward to it. The football won't be great, but the way the competitive dates have fallen, there's a big gap, with only two in the next nine months. The local tournament's a better filler than going on a tour to the US or playing games in London. Plus, there's bragging rights to be had, and we should get to see a few of the young lads.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except, the bragging rights are questionable. Can see most of the games being dull draws.
And the whole thing is so drawn out.
A straight knock out over a long weekend, with a 3rd. v 4th. place game would have been preferable.

And in a smaller stadium/with cheaper tkt. costs, if this was even remotely necessary.

[elroy]

I think it will add something different than just playing a run of the mill friendly. Yes we will be playing teams who play in a similar style but recent friendlies have been dire so cant be any worse than them.

[Gather round]

And in a smaller stadium/with cheaper tkt. costs

We're paying £17/ €20 which seems reasonable. I realise the Republic's games will likely have a higher walk-up price.

[EalingGreen]

Celtic Cup will be shown on Sky 3d.

Date changes as follows


Republic of Ireland v Northern Ireland Tue, May 24 2011 Aviva Stadium KO 7.45pm

Scotland v Wales Wed, May 25, 2011 Aviva Stadium KO 7.45 pm

Wales v Northern Ireland Fri, May 27, 2011 Aviva Stadium KO 7.45 pm

Republic of Ireland v Scotland Sun, May 29, 2011 Aviva Stadium KO 6.30 pm



Source

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=101465:carling-nations-cup-announces-broadcast-partnership-with-sky-sports-3d&catid=1:senior-men&Itemid=8Thanks for the update, Gspain (not that I'll be giving the FAI any of my money).

Anyhow, the tournament is actually called "The Carling Nations Cup". Personally, I'm not so sure about endorsing a crappy lager, either, but if you're going to refer to the "AVIVA", rather than Lansdowne Road, you might as well get the official tournament name correct, too. ;)

[EalingGreen]

The FAI really are being knobs about a completely pointless competition, especially just to take Murdoch's shilling.Given what I suspect must be the perillous state of the FAI's finances, "Murdoch's shilling" is exactly the "point".

And no doubt the same applies to the IFA. :(

[EalingGreen]

A straight knock out over a long weekend, with a 3rd. v 4th. place game would have been preferable.Which would mean fewer games, therefore only attracting "Murdoch's pennies".

"Beggars cannot be Choosers"

[ifk101]

Over 40,000 at a Leinster rugby game yesterday in the Aviva. The FAI will be doing well to get a combined attendance of 40,000 for these matches.

[Dodge]

And 25,000 there to watch Ireland play the Rugby world champions 6 weeks ago

That comparison as relevant as the other

[elroy]

Over 40,000 at a Leinster rugby game yesterday in the Aviva. The FAI will be doing well to get a combined attendance of 40,000 for these matches.

If priced correctly, they should get respectable attendances for all games.

[boovidge]

Given what I suspect must be the perillous state of the FAI's finances, "Murdoch's shilling" is exactly the "point".

And no doubt the same applies to the IFA. :(

We can't complain about the terrible state of football in Ireland and then condemn the FAI and IFA for trying to get some money in.

[gspain]

over 36,000 at the FAI Cup final last month too.

Point taken on the correct name of the tournament.

I can't get excited about it but will probably end up at all 6 games and certainly our 3.

[irishfan86]

Mixed feelings about it but I don't think putting a competitive twist on friendlies is a bad thing.

After all, the "meaningless" Iceland Triangular Tournament victory proved to be the springboard for the Charlton era. ;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

We're paying £17/ €20 which seems reasonable. I realise the Republic's games will likely have a higher walk-up price.

They must have cut prices for visiting fans, as they would have charged €40-50 minimum if they could get away with it.
Even those prices seem too much for the abject quality of the teams on offer. Especially in the light of the parlous economic climate.
Which ironically will be contradicted by the nice 'cheap' prices for accommodation, food & drink etc. That visitors will find when they roll up....


Given what I suspect must be the perillous state of the FAI's finances, "Murdoch's shilling" is exactly the "point".

And no doubt the same applies to the IFA.

Which would mean fewer games, therefore only attracting "Murdoch's pennies".

"Beggars cannot be Choosers"
So you don't think fans (and even football associations) should try to have some integrity?
Anyway, thought the North's fans were all boycotting this because of the FAI?? For once I'd be in total agreement.

Though more seriously, it won't be the same if yer not there, EG.
We were looking forward to one of your witty banners, "Planters, Go Nuts"??


Mixed feelings about it but I don't think putting a competitive twist on friendlies is a bad thing.

After all, the "meaningless" Iceland Triangular Tournament victory proved to be the springboard for the Charlton era.
There is no comparison between the Irish soccer team of the mid -80's and now.
Doh:Note to if86

Also there is now far too much football, at all levels.
Never has the adage of Quantity over Quality been more true.

[irishfan86]

Ardee...I threw the winking smiley on there man!

[Supreme feet]

There is no comparison between the Irish soccer team of the mid -80's and now.


There is a comparison between today and the team of 1986 - we hadn't qualified for anything in our previous four attempts, the press was suspicious of the manager because he was a harsh foreign pragmatist, some senior players were coming into the end of their prime (for Dunne, Duff and Keane read Lawrenson, Brady, Stapleton) and despite some promising youngsters, most of our players were playing for unfashionable clubs. And our best days were ahead of us! :)

[theworm2345]

There is a comparison between today and the team of 1986 - we hadn't qualified for anything in our previous four attempts, the press was suspicious of the manager because he was a harsh foreign pragmatist, some senior players were coming into the end of their prime (for Dunne, Duff and Keane read Lawrenson, Brady, Stapleton) and despite some promising youngsters, most of our players were playing for unfashionable clubs. And our best days were ahead of us! :)
The difference being put 'em under pressure tactics against hope for a goal and then pray they don't score.

[The Fly]

We were looking forward to one of your witty banners, "Planters, Go Nuts"??


Jimmy Carter used those.

[ifk101]

Thanks for the update, Gspain (not that I'll be giving the FAI any of my money.

Pensioners go free.

[Gather round]

They must have cut prices for visiting fans, as they would have charged €40-50 minimum if they could get away with it

Very possibly. They must have decided they couldn't get away with it. (Although they are getting stick, particularly from Scottish fans, for changing the timetable after many had paid for their travel, hotels etc.).


Even those prices seem too much for the abject quality of the teams on offer. Especially in the light of the parlous economic climate

The prices are comparable to what you'd pay in the League of Ireland or English D4. Even weakened international sides are a bit higher standard than that. But if you don't fancy it, fine.


Which ironically will be contradicted by the nice 'cheap' prices for accommodation, food & drink etc. That visitors will find when they roll up....

Dublin Hotel costs look reasonable at the moment (cheaper than many equivalents in Britain). People broadly know what food and drink prices to expect.


Anyway, thought the North's fans were all boycotting this because of the FAI?? For once I'd be in total agreement

Some are, others aren't. There seems to be a difference between OWC and the Irish League supporter boards.

[EalingGreen]

We can't complain about the terrible state of football in Ireland and then condemn the FAI and IFA for trying to get some money in.Dunno whether that was directed at me, but if it was, I've consistently acknowledged the financial imperative which (presumably) has caused the four Associations, inc IFA, to devise this tournament.

However, I also have a problem with the IFA's involvement on a point of principle i.e. I do not think we should be co-operating with a rival Association whose recruitment procedures have been described as "unfair, seedy and predatory" by the man who operated them, at our direct expense.

Therefore my own "solution" to this conundrum is to accept that due to TV money and sponsorship etc, the tournament will go ahead regardless of whether the stadium is full or empty; the IFA will participate because it needs the money; some?/many? NI fans will attend because they want to support the team; but I will not be one of them because I do not want to see one penny of my money going to that s h i t head Delaney and his cronies.

Beyond that, I hope those of our fans who do travel have a good time, the team wins and there is no trouble etc.

[EalingGreen]

So you don't think fans (and even football associations) should try to have some integrity?As regards NI fans, I do not think this issue is black and white. That is, I can understand why some NI fans feel they should go to support the team. I will not be one of them, on an "agree to disagree" basis.

As regards Associations, I cannot see any organisation led by a chancer like Delaney ever having any integrity - but I suspect that deep down, all ROI and/or LOI fans knew that already.

As for the IFA's dilemma which has caused it place pragmatism over principle, I wish it weren't so (indeed hate it), but accept that it is so.

Maybe in time that will change.


Anyway, thought the North's fans were all boycotting this because of the FAI?? For once I'd be in total agreement.My own guess is that only a minority of fans will "boycott" this event and I understand that (especially for those fans who cannot normally attend away games for one reason or another).

For in the end they, like me, are supporters and how else does one demonstrate that other than by attending games and supporting the team?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Very possibly. They must have decided they couldn't get away with it.
Believe me, they have cut their prices by half.


The prices are comparable to what you'd pay in the League of Ireland or English D4. Even weakened international sides are a bit higher standard than that.
Given the fuss you've made paying similar for a 'top' Championship game I consider this gross hypocrisy!
Not to mention, the stadium will have barely 5-10k in the middle of Feb.
And the whole thing is irrelevant economically, to the country.


Dublin Hotel costs look reasonable at the moment
Anything that's that cheap, is probably a sh*thole.

Have some sympathy with EG's view, as at least he's operating within a 'principle' of sorts and shares the common view of JD.
Having met JD, he's a consummate political operator and whilst not agreeing with his 'economic policies', acknowledge the man's charisma. Of sorts.

[geysir]

In the eligibility issue over the past few years, Delaney has been a credit to the FAI.
Imho, on this issue, he has represented the FAI, knowledgeably, diplomatically and with integrity. I think most fans would credit Delaney on his conduct throughout the period that the eligibility issue was the subject of much bluster and bluff by the legally ignorant IFA.

Since this issue has been finally adjudicated, I doubt that the FAI policy of facilitating contact with eligible young players is any different to other associations.

[Gather round]

Believe me, they have cut their prices by half

I know. If (as I originally expected) the tickets had cost ca €50, then I probably wouldn't be interested in going. I suppose the FAI have to balance attracting a decent crowd against annoying their own fans, partic. those with season tickets.


Given the fuss you've made paying similar for a 'top' Championship game I consider this gross hypocrisy!

How so? I don't support any teams in the 'top' Championship; NI play few enough games as it is. I want to go, FAI are making me a reasonable offer. What da problem?


Anything that's that cheap, is probably a sh*thole

I didn't quote a figure- how would you know? But a quick search now reveals plenty available for €30 per head in a twin, within 1km of O'Connell Bridge. Five star luxury not necessary.


Have some sympathy with EG's view, as at least he's operating within a 'principle' of sorts

Translation: neither of you want to go to the matches, albeit for vastly different reasons. EG because he thinks (wrongly, in my opinion) that the FAI are acting unfairly and threaten the NI team's future existence. We're quite capable of doing that single-handed, thanks.

It's a shame the pair of you can't meet for a sharpener. Maybe next time?


In the eligibility issue over the past few years, Delaney has been a credit to the FAI

That's a bit like crediting Mussolini as a war leader because he managed to invade Albania or the Cote d'Azur. JD managed to deal with the IFA's confusion pretty adroitly, I'll grant.


Imho, on this issue, he has represented the FAI, knowledgeably, diplomatically and with integrity

I think AB was probably thinking of other issues. To this outsider, securing the Europa Cup Final looks a bigger achievement than marginally increasing the playing pool. Against that, consider his foolish and drawn out response to the France game last year, or the embarrassment of the ManU v LoI scratch side

[ifk101]

I didn't quote a figure- how would you know? But a quick search now reveals plenty available for €30 per head in a twin, within 1km of O'Connell Bridge. Five star luxury not necessary.

You're looking at hostels then?

[Gather round]

You're looking at hostels then?

No, hotels as I said above. Here are the first three that came up in that search:

Mont Clare, Merrion Square

Arlington, Lord Edward Street

Belvedere, Parnell Square

[ifk101]

No, hotels as I said above. Here are the first three that came up in that search:

Mont Clare, Merrion Square

Arlington, Lord Edward Street

Belvedere, Parnell Square

What search engine are you using? The Mont Clare and Arlington are coming up as €80 - 100 per night when I've search them. The Belvedere is cheap but I don't want to stay near Parnell Sq.

[Gather round]

What search engine are you using? The Mont Clare and Arlington are coming up as €80 - 100 per night when I've search them. The Belvedere is cheap but I don't want to stay near Parnell Sq

Google => Dublin+hotel+bookings => http://dublin.city-centre-hotels.com/.

Discounts offered for two nights.

Point taken about PSq, but it is very central.

[jbyrne]

That's a bit like crediting Mussolini as a war leader because he managed to invade Albania or the Cote d'Azur.


not really. i am sure those places didnt welcome mussolini where as the players concerned are delighted to be able to play for the south

[ArdeeBhoy]

I suppose the FAI have to balance attracting a decent crowd against annoying their own fans, partic. those with season tickets.
It was done purely out of economic reasoning, not for any altrusistic reasons.


I don't support any teams in the 'top' Championship.
Hmm, well if you don't recall why that's a gripe now, you never will.


I want to go, FAI are making me a reasonable offer. What da problem?
Clearly it would help boost capacity, but we have enough self-righteous fools already!
;)


I didn't quote a figure- how would you know? But a quick search now reveals plenty available for €30 per head in a twin, within 1km of O'Connell Bridge.
Er, again for reasons you should know only too well!
And the average is around €10 more, but still a worthwhile shout.


It's a shame the pair of you can't meet for a sharpener. Maybe next time?
Save it for an AI team's first game....


That's a bit like crediting Mussolini as a war leader because he managed to invade Albania or the Cote d'Azur.
Yet another bizarre, pointless and irrelevant analogy. As JB identified.


Against that, consider his foolish and drawn out response to the France game last year, or the embarrassment of the ManU v LoI scratch side
Compared to Bl*tter & some of the IFA, he's almost a giant by comparison.


Google => Dublin+hotel+bookings => http://dublin.city-centre-hotels.com/.

Discounts offered for two nights.
To be fair that's a good find. Finally, Reality bites.

[Billsthoughts]

talk of ireland or wales playing in triangular tournament wiht the basque country next year

[ArdeeBhoy]

That would be a lot more interesting, especially in Iberia.

[bennocelt]

In the eligibility issue over the past few years, Delaney has been a credit to the FAI.
Imho, on this issue, he has represented the FAI, knowledgeably, diplomatically and with integrity. I think most fans would credit Delaney on his conduct throughout the period that the eligibility issue was the subject of much bluster and bluff by the legally ignorant IFA.

Since this issue has been finally adjudicated, I doubt that the FAI policy of facilitating contact with eligible young players is any different to other associations.

To be fair he has a pretty water tight case backing him up, ie The Good Friday Agreement, so it a bit of a no brainer

[gspain]

Actually Dublin hotel prices are amongst the best value in Europe these days. Other aspects of our economy are not as competitive.

I haven't seen ticket prices for our 3 games. No indication that they are cheaper apart from JD's comment about reducing prices.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were dearer than the 3 non RoI games in this tournament. 20 euro would be very cheap and probably
aimed at getting local neutrals to go. Haven't even heards a rumour though as to what our prices will be.

[EalingGreen]

Translation: neither of you [Ealing Green and Ardee Bhoy] want to go to the matches, albeit for vastly different reasons. EG because he thinks (wrongly, in my opinion) that the FAI are acting unfairly and threaten the NI team's future existence. We're quite capable of doing that single-handed, thanks.Actually, I feel the FAI actions to be "unfair, seedy and predatory", as somebody-or-other once admitted.
As for this threatening our existence, I do not believe that to be so as such. However, I do feel that it greatly jeopardises our ability to go on putting out a team which equally represents both traditions in NI, since the FAI now offers an outlet for those footballers from a Nationalist background who may allow their politics etc to inform their choice of international team.
Thus it is this increasing de facto sectarianising of football in Ireland, whereby the ROI may come to be seen as the "Catholic team" and NI as the "Prod" team, which I consider to be the most "threatening" and utterly abhorrent aspect of this whole shabby episode.


It's a shame the pair of you can't meet for a sharpener. Maybe next time?Ardee Bhoy has suggested we meet at the first game of a United Ireland team.
I can certainly wait* that long, even if he can't...:p

* - Don't expect to live that long, mind, unless things turn out so bad in Da Republick that they are forced to beg for readmission to the UK. ;)

[elroy]

I think you'll find that a united Ireland team already exists and rightly so. Anyone born in this single island of ours can play for the team called Republic of Ireland. Hence we have a team which has representatives from all of the island.

Ha ha id be more worried about the state of your own little government supported economy if I were you. Things wont be so rosy for the UK banks/government when they have to go to the market in late 2011.

[Schumi]

I haven't seen ticket prices for our 3 games. No indication that they are cheaper apart from JD's comment about reducing prices.

I could see crowds of less than 10,000 if they charge €40 for these. They have be careful with prices; charging too much for these games could see a big drop in block-booking numbers as even big games aren't selling out currently.

[pineapple stu]

Are these actually covered under the block booking? (As in, do I have to go as a block booker?)

Will probably go anyway, but just checking.

[Schumi]

Are these actually covered under the block booking? (As in, do I have to go as a block booker?)

Will probably go anyway, but just checking.
I assume so, haven't heard anything though.

[Junior]

I wonder what crowd and at what average ticket price is required to cover the operating costs of hosting a game at the Aviva?

I mean, what sort of crowd is a Wednesday night fixture of Wales vs Scotland going to attract in terms of local neutrals or travelling support? Id be surprised if they got close to 10k for such a game, probably nearer 5k.

Anyone have any insight in terms of the running costs or indeed the TV income etc... coming from the tournament?

[EalingGreen]

I think you'll find that a united Ireland team already exists and rightly so.I don't want to go any further down that road, if you don't mind, but Ardee Bhoy was not referring to that team (ROI), but rather one selected by a single Irish Association at some stage in the future.


Anyone born in this single island of ours can play for the team called Republic of Ireland. Hence we have a team which has representatives from all of the island.Whilst geographically-speaking the ROI may have "representatives from all of the island", the FAI still only chooses players from 80% of the population of the island.
By contrast, the IFA seeks to select players from 100% of the population of Northern Ireland.
And we are the ones who get labelled "bigots"...:rolleyes:


Ha ha id be more worried about the state of your own little government supported economy if I were you. Things wont be so rosy for the UK banks/government when they have to go to the market in late 2011.Thanks for your concern, but I'll take my chances where I am. ;)

[ifk101]

Whilst geographically-speaking the ROI may have "representatives from all of the island", the FAI still only chooses players from 80% of the population of the island.
By contrast, the IFA seeks to select players from 100% of the population of Northern Ireland.
And we are the ones who get labelled "bigots"...:rolleyes:

The FAI doesn't chose players born in NI. NI born players chose the FAI - there is a difference. I can assure you that anyone born in NI willing and good enough to play for the FAI will be welcomed with open arms - there's nothing to suggest otherwise. However it's up to the individual player to make his desire to play for the FAI known.

[osarusan]

Sweet Christ, can we not go down this road again?

[elroy]

I don't want to go any further down that road, if you don't mind, but Ardee Bhoy was not referring to that team (ROI), but rather one selected by a single Irish Association at some stage in the future.


Fine, but I was making reference to the fact that a United Ireland does exist, if not in actual name yet.


"Whilst geographically-speaking the ROI may have "representatives from all of the island", the FAI still only chooses players from 80% of the population of the island.
By contrast, the IFA seeks to select players from 100% of the population of Northern Ireland.
And we are the ones who get labelled "bigots"...:rolleyes:"

Whatever about your labels, the FAI can certainly not be labelled bigots, anyone born in Ireland can play for the FAI team. The FAI does not only choose eligible players from certain communities. They would be more than happy to select players from the full pool available in the six counties. We are all Irish at the end of the day.

[The Fly]

Actually, I feel the FAI actions to be "unfair, seedy and predatory", as somebody-or-other once admitted.
As for this threatening our existence, I do not believe that to be so as such. However, I do feel that it greatly jeopardises our ability to go on putting out a team which equally represents both traditions in NI, since the FAI now offers an outlet for those footballers from a Nationalist background who may allow their nationality etc to inform their choice of international team.


Fixed.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Sweet Christ, can we not go down this road again?
Said the blasphemer to the bishop.....


Actually Dublin hotel prices are amongst the best value in Europe these days. Other aspects of our economy are not as competitive.


I wouldn't be surprised if they were dearer than the 3 non RoI games in this tournament. 20 euro would be very cheap and probably aimed at getting local neutrals to go. Haven't even heards a rumour though as to what our prices will be.
Originally all games were to be a minimum of €40, which is the price factored into the 'season ticket' for Irish fans.
Block-bookers would be expected to show up, but unsure of the hit they're expected to take. Hopefully less than the €40.

Nothing to do with the FAI's money-grabbing, just that a nonsensical tournament during an economic depression should be €10-20 max. And then we might see a crowd?


Actually, I feel the FAI actions to be "unfair, seedy and predatory", as somebody-or-other once admitted.
As for this threatening our existence, I do not believe that to be so as such. However, I do feel that it greatly jeopardises our ability to go on putting out a team which equally represents both traditions in NI, since the FAI now offers an outlet for those footballers from a Nationalist background who may allow their politics etc to inform their choice of international team.
Thus it is this increasing de facto sectarianising of football in Ireland, whereby the ROI may come to be seen as the "Catholic team" and NI as the "Prod" team, which I consider to be the most "threatening" and utterly abhorrent aspect of this whole shabby episode.

Ardee Bhoy has suggested we meet at the first game of a United Ireland team.
I can certainly wait* that long, even if he can't...

* - Don't expect to live that long, mind, unless things turn out so bad in Da Republic that they are forced to beg for readmission to the UK.

Other posters have more eloquently answered the initial points!!!

As for the other tongue-in-cheek comment, collective amnesia aside, don't forget the North gets the size of the entire Irish bailout every 15 years or so, at current levels.
At the rate of just under £10k per head annually, for this particular colonial theme park!


one selected by a single Irish Association at some stage in the future.

Whilst geographically-speaking the ROI may have "representatives from all of the island", the FAI still only chooses players from 80% of the population of the island.
By contrast, the IFA seeks to select players from 100% of the population of Northern Ireland.

The point is EG, unless Ireland are very good & the North very bad, only around 20-30% of those eligible will probably ever declare for a full Irish team. Though one day a nominal 'unionist' or of 'hard-line ' Prod heritage will, which is when it becomes interesting....


Thanks for your concern, but I'l take my chances where I am.
Be fair, the Brits are never likely to exclude Ealing in any subsidy?? Unless there's a breakaway state led by Southall....
;)

[Wolfie]

Sweet Christ, can we not go down this road again?

Amen to that - all "debates" on this site with NI fans are just elaborate games of Tic-Tac-Toe - a futile excercise and a waste of time and energy (for both sides of the "debate" I hasten to add).

This tournament may not exactly set the pulse racing, but it would be a welcome departure if football related issues could take centre stage on a football forum.