Irish abortion law may need to be changed.

[osarusan]

from the BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11342247


The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that Irish abortion laws violated the rights of one of three women who sought terminations in Britain.

The woman, who was in remission for cancer and unaware of her pregnancy, argued her health was put at risk.

The Irish Times article (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1216/breaking11.html) writes that the unanimous verdic suggests Itish abortion law breaches human rights laws. The Irish Times also notes that

The Government robustly defended the laws and said Ireland's abortion laws were based on “profound moral values deeply embedded in Irish society”.

Interesting to see how this one plays out.

[culloty82]

I'm not going to enter the legal, moral and ethical debate about the rights or wrongs of the subject, but it certainly seems inevitable that it'll require another referendum to sort this out once and for all.

[Macy]

I'm not going to enter the legal, moral and ethical debate about the rights or wrongs of the subject, but it certainly seems inevitable that it'll require another referendum to sort this out once and for all.
I'm not sure - my (limited) understanding so far is that the decision is basically that we haven't the legislation to back the current constitutional position, rather than the need for another referendum.

[BonnieShels]

Seems right Macy. This is the biggest potential headache coming down the line for the next government. It's the only subject I know that it's difficult to discuss. And that's not to consider the actual content of the argument.
Most people I know are entrenched in their views and its difficult to see other pov's.
I was in class back in October discussing constitutional law and this subject came up and the place went mad. Everyone was convinced that their pov was right. Including myself. The problem is as a moral question everyone could be considered right. However as we legislate via tort, precedent and constitutional interpretation etc it's difficult to incorporate emotion and morality into that. Law is good for the black and white and when designed correctly it can be a great thing. However we struggle with these sorts if things.
The x Case was a watershed moment in Irish history and I think many would have thought that would have been the end if that. So this just adds a another dimension to it that no one could foresee. I look forward to seeing where this goes.

[OneRedArmy]

I'm not sure - my (limited) understanding so far is that the decision is basically that we haven't the legislation to back the current constitutional position, rather than the need for another referendum.Which our own Supreme Court has said on a number of occasions. Its highly embarrassing that it takes a European Court to force action, particularly on such a serious issue.

[Macy]

Its highly embarrassing that it takes a European Court to force action, particularly on such a serious issue.
I wouldn't take it as read that it'll force action, tbh.


The x Case was a watershed moment in Irish history and I think many would have thought that would have been the end if that. So this just adds a another dimension to it that no one could foresee. I look forward to seeing where this goes.
Only if they listen to the nutjobs. Again in my limited understanding so far, there wouldn't be a whole lot to simply legislating for the X case, our current constitutional position. I don't think it's either extremes ideal, it is a reasonable compromise, and was effectively endorsed in the last referendum.

[Dodge]

Which our own Supreme Court has said on a number of occasions. Its highly embarrassing that it takes a European Court to force action, particularly on such a serious issue.

Not sure how much relevence the ECHR has either tbh. Its a Council of Europe thing, not an EU think (Like the ECJ for example).

Obviously embaressing but what are the sanctions for non compliance?

[SkStu]

the ECHR is very relevant to Ireland (and all member states) and its decisions have binding authority on member states.

In terms of sanctions, there are no sanctions on the member state per se other than the embarassment brought about by political and diplomatic pressure.

[BonnieShels]

Apparently we can't be compelled to legislate. However there is an inference that we should. U suppose though the Dublin Mayoralty Bill is more important.

[Angus]

Ah lads, who among us is not really looking forward with glee and enthusiasm to every Saturday afternoon being dominated by shrill headbangers screaming at the top of each others voices about how each other are satan incarnate, in competing marches down the middle of O Connell Street ?

[BonnieShels]

Kenny rules out referendum...



Dealing with the re-emergence of abortion as a political issue, following the recent judgment of the European Court of Human Rights, Kenny believes the best way to deal with it is through an all-party Oireachtas committee to be established after the election.
He rules out the commitment to a referendum being sought by the anti-abortion campaign in advance of the election and says that will certainly not be forthcoming from Fine Gael.
“This is very divisive and there are deeply and sincerely held views on all sides of this argument. This obviously is going to be a matter for the next Oireachtas to deal with,” says Kenny, who adds that the first thing that will have to be done is to determine the scale and the nature of the problem.
“We had the X case back in the 1990s and the European Court of Human Rights has given its decision now. This judgment required proper analysis and some in-depth discussion. What I would propose is that the next Oireachtas should establish a process to look at the core issues here. I am not going to shirk the issue but I am not going to predetermine what the outcome will be.”
He says that in the case of the Oireachtas Committee on Children’s Rights it was established with a predetermined outcome in mind and that was to hold a referendum on the issue.
“In this case my view is that we should set up an appropriate all-party committee with terms of reference that would allow it to have access to the best legal advice, to the best medical advice and other expertise that is required about what should be done here. . .
“What should be done might range across a spectrum from legislation to a list of State recommendations or regulations that the medical profession could adhere to and operate within,” he says.
“My position is I do not favour legalising abortion on demand. We have a situation where you have difficult, hard cases, and some people have gone through very difficult circumstances but there is an ECHR judgement, there is a Supreme Court decision and there is a constitutional position.
“If the next Oireachtas is to respond it has got to determine what the facts are, the scale of the problem and the nature of it and see if we can arrive at a consensus on how to deal with it.
“It is not a case of kicking it off into the distance. The next Oireachtas will deal with it based on the evidence and the facts.”


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1228/1224286364426.html

Hopefully that's the end of that as an election issue now that FG have made their view known.