Russia wins 2018 rights, Qatar to host 2022

[culloty82]

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/heartbreak-for-england-as-russia-wins-2018-world-cup-2010-12/

So, one corrupt, semi-fascist dictatorship rewards another, don't know how a country the size of Qatar will accommodate all the necessary stadia.

[Junior]

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/heartbreak-for-england-as-russia-wins-2018-world-cup-2010-12/

So, one corrupt, semi-fascist dictatorship rewards another, don't know how a country the size of Qatar will accommodate all the necessary stadia.

All within a 60km radius I believe. To be dismantled afterwards and reused in the developing countries.

[SkStu]

im bitterly disappointed that England and USA didnt get it to be honest. I hate Sepp Blatter and FIFA.

[cornflakes]

Fifa is so obviously corrupt its sickening. Qa-feckin-tar

[pineapple stu]

Gas how all the talk at the moment is on how damaging Panorama's allegations were to the England bid. Nobody cares if the allegations were true or not. Read a bit a while back (think it was on WSC?) about how a majority of people in Holland didn't want the World Cup because of all the tax breaks and constitution re-writes that FIFA were asking for.

[SkStu]

Round 1: England 2 votes, Netherlands/Belgium 4 votes, Spain/Portugal 7 votes and Russia 9 votes.

Round 2: Netherlands/Belgium 2 votes, Spain/Portugal 7 votes and Russia 13 votes (Russia obtain absolute majority of 12)

anyone know why would 2 Netherlands/Belgium voters switch allegiance to Russia in Round 2 when Netherlands/Belgium bid was still on the table?

[pineapple stu]

Presumably cos they saw the Holland/Belgium bid wasn't going to work and they favoured Russia over Spain/Portugal.

[SwanVsDalton]

Unsurprised by the result, it's likely almost any other competing bid would put on a better tournament than either Russia or Qatar. Individuals voted with their wallets, plus ca change.

I'm not generally in favour of corrupt oligarchs getting to host global events, but any chance Russia might actually follow through and clean up their endemic hooliganism and racism problems? At least we're getting a slight dry run next September...

[SkStu]

Sepp Blatter was asked "who is your favourite Qatar player Sepp?".

"Eric Clapton" he says.

[Bunbury Forum F]

From Australia's point view, what a lot of crap

[OwlsFan]

Fifa is so obviously corrupt its sickening. Qa-feckin-tar



There has never been a World Cup in one of the 20+ Arab countries so it is their time. Nor has there been a World Cup in Eastern Europe. We are biased towards Western Europe.

Good luck to them both.

England only got 2 votes. Obviously never in the running despite what their press think.

On the positive side, we usually qualify when the WC is thousands of miles away!

[pineapple stu]

England only got 2 votes. Obviously never in the running despite what their press think.
One from themselves. Other probably from the US, who pulled out of 2018 when England pulled out of 2022 I think?

I'd be shocked if the Panorama thing didn't cost them a few votes, even if it was late in the day. You can't call a load of people corrupt - with evidence, it seems - and expect that they'll not try and stab you right back.

[Dodge]

anyone know why would 2 Netherlands/Belgium voters switch allegiance to Russia in Round 2 when Netherlands/Belgium bid was still on the table?

The thinking is it was 2 Russia voters who voted for Bel/Ned to knock out England in first round

Either way its laughable that people think that this result means FIFA is corrupt while a victory for the US or the UK would've been fair. have none of you heard of wikileaks? They're more corrupt than most.

its actually sickening to hear the England bid people (and their media cheerleaders) refuse to even entertain the thought that their bid wasn't impeccable. They are exactly the same when the team loses. Its never down to ability, its always a ref's decision or the weather.

Maybe, just maybe, the best bids came from Russia and Qatar? Seeing as not one of us have seen all the bids...

[Junior]

I find it interesting that UK media and the Bid Team and sports commentators in general now all appear to be on the 'Lets investigate FIFA' bandwagon. Whilst I 110% agree that FIFA should be brought to task, Its amazing the hypocrisy of all this, in that, as long as the corrupt organisation and its executive committee members are voting for our bid 'its ok', otherwise, it can't be allowed to go on and the organisation needs a complete revamp.

Rumour has it that Warner (and his 3 votes) had been guaranteed to the UK Bid Team - Though obviously he ticked a different box! The guy is a complete crook who I have no time for but its hypocritical of the English FA to get Prince Willy and Prince Becks to go off cap in hand blowing smoke up this guys ar$e in order to get votes and then be shocked when he is not true to his word.

Its a farce of a process. God knows how many favours $$$$$ will be changing hands after this but I hope it all comes out.

I would have liked for it to come to England in 2018 but I dont mind that Russia got it either. Qatar is a bizarre selection, I don't really buy the bringing football to the Middle East argument - It stinks of cash, cash and more cash.

[DeLorean]

On a slightly different note, how did Mexico get to host it twice in 16 years?

[Junior]

I think one of them was a last minute change of host (From Colombia I think)

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, there was an earthquake in Colombia in 1985, so they switched it to Mexico.

[osarusan]

Yeah, there was an earthquake in Colombia in 1985, so they switched it to Mexico.

Colombia couldn't afford it, Mexico got it and kept it despite earthquake in 1985.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FIFA_World_Cup


Colombia was originally chosen as hosts by FIFA in June 1974. However, the Colombian authorities eventually declared in November 1982 that they could not afford to host the World Cup under the terms that FIFA demanded because of economic concerns. Mexico was selected on 20 May 1983 as the replacement hosts, beating the bids of Canada, and the United States (who eventually hosted the 1994 World Cup), and became the first nation to host two World Cups. This second World Cup in Mexico came 16 years after the first one in 1970. A severe earthquake in September 1985, eight months before the tournament, cast doubt over Mexico's ability to organize the event, but the stadia were not affected and it was decided to go ahead with the preparations.

[DeLorean]

Interesting. I knew about the earthquake in Mexico alright. It was mentioned in the 1986 dvd that the Irish Independent were selling during the WC, would have thought they'd have mentioned something about Colombia too though, maybe they did!

[pineapple stu]

Colombia couldn't afford it, Mexico got it and kept it despite earthquake in 1985.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FIFA_World_Cup
Always thought that earthquake was in Colombia. Though I know (was the last World Cup I didn't watch) that TV commentary was garbled - wrong languages and stuff like that. Don't know why I didn't put two and two together!

[Closed Account 2]

II would have liked for it to come to England in 2018 but I dont mind that Russia got it either. Qatar is a bizarre selection, I don't really buy the bringing football to the Middle East argument - It stinks of cash, cash and more cash.

I posted this in another forum:

The sad thing is for all the talk of the Arabian people meeting fans from all over the world and the world fans seeing Arabian culture, which was a big unique selling point, I just don't see it happening very well in Qatar.

Average income in Qatar is $60,000, 4th highest in the World. It's inhabitants have the financial means to travel anywhere in the World, contrast that to say Egypt $2,400, Kuwait $24,000 or Iran $4,400. Will the average citizen from these countries really be able to afford to take a trip to Qatar (hotels, travel, food etc)? If it had gone to one of these countries at least it wouldn't have just been a rich elite of locals who would have been able to attend.

Also what does Qatar offer, culturally, for foreign fans attending ? According to wikitravel the following:

http://wikitravel.org/en/Qatar#See

An art museum, a souq (market), some man-made island and forts and shopping malls. It's not really the same as the Pyramids at Giza, Palmyra in Syria, or the old city of Persepolis. Compared to those I don't think Qatar is going to offer a genuine Arabian / Middle Eastern experience to visitors at the World Cup.

[Junior]

Yeah, Id agree with all that.

The radio program I listened to earlier quoted average income as $105,000 pa (same point, just a bigger figure! I have no idea which is the more accurate but its years ahead of anywhere else thats for sure.)

I think FIFA made a point about Qatar being within 4hrs travel time of xx million people - How many people from India, Pakistan, SE Asia, Africa etc..etc.. are going to travel? Ridiculous argument (unless it was made purely in terms of timezones but I doubt it)

Culturally? Its laughable, the cities that some of these stadiums will have been built in will be less than 10 years!!!!

Post World Cup? - Most of the icons of the tournament (i.e. the stadiums) will be dismantled and spread across other parts of the world.

Ching ching......

[Dodge]

The timezone argument I heard was that Qatar was the best option for European TV audiences.

[Closed Account 2]

I took the figures from the IMF report 2009/10:

Here (http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2010/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=29&pr.y=9&sy=2009&ey=2009&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=512%2C941%2C914%2C446%2C612%2C666%2C614%2C668%2C 311%2C672%2C213%2C946%2C911%2C137%2C193%2C962%2C12 2%2C674%2C912%2C676%2C313%2C548%2C419%2C556%2C513% 2C678%2C316%2C181%2C913%2C682%2C124%2C684%2C339%2C 273%2C638%2C921%2C514%2C948%2C218%2C943%2C963%2C68 6%2C616%2C688%2C223%2C518%2C516%2C728%2C918%2C558% 2C748%2C138%2C618%2C196%2C522%2C278%2C622%2C692%2C 156%2C694%2C624%2C142%2C626%2C449%2C628%2C564%2C22 8%2C283%2C924%2C853%2C233%2C288%2C632%2C293%2C636% 2C566%2C634%2C964%2C238%2C182%2C662%2C453%2C960%2C 968%2C423%2C922%2C935%2C714%2C128%2C862%2C611%2C71 6%2C321%2C456%2C243%2C722%2C248%2C942%2C469%2C718% 2C253%2C724%2C642%2C576%2C643%2C936%2C939%2C961%2C 644%2C813%2C819%2C199%2C172%2C184%2C132%2C524%2C64 6%2C361%2C648%2C362%2C915%2C364%2C134%2C732%2C652% 2C366%2C174%2C734%2C328%2C144%2C258%2C146%2C656%2C 463%2C654%2C528%2C336%2C923%2C263%2C738%2C268%2C57 8%2C532%2C537%2C944%2C742%2C176%2C866%2C534%2C369% 2C536%2C744%2C429%2C186%2C433%2C925%2C178%2C746%2C 436%2C926%2C136%2C466%2C343%2C112%2C158%2C111%2C43 9%2C298%2C916%2C927%2C664%2C846%2C826%2C299%2C542% 2C582%2C967%2C474%2C443%2C754%2C917%2C698%2C544&s=NGDPDPC&grp=0&a=) (via wikipedia ;) )

I'd guess it's a difference between income and GDP, but either way it's in the top 5-10 in terms of richest countries p.h. population in the world.

[Dodge]

I took the figures from the IMF report 2009/10:

Here (http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2010/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=29&pr.y=9&sy=2009&ey=2009&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=512%2C941%2C914%2C446%2C612%2C666%2C614%2C668%2C 311%2C672%2C213%2C946%2C911%2C137%2C193%2C962%2C12 2%2C674%2C912%2C676%2C313%2C548%2C419%2C556%2C513% 2C678%2C316%2C181%2C913%2C682%2C124%2C684%2C339%2C 273%2C638%2C921%2C514%2C948%2C218%2C943%2C963%2C68 6%2C616%2C688%2C223%2C518%2C516%2C728%2C918%2C558% 2C748%2C138%2C618%2C196%2C522%2C278%2C622%2C692%2C 156%2C694%2C624%2C142%2C626%2C449%2C628%2C564%2C22 8%2C283%2C924%2C853%2C233%2C288%2C632%2C293%2C636% 2C566%2C634%2C964%2C238%2C182%2C662%2C453%2C960%2C 968%2C423%2C922%2C935%2C714%2C128%2C862%2C611%2C71 6%2C321%2C456%2C243%2C722%2C248%2C942%2C469%2C718% 2C253%2C724%2C642%2C576%2C643%2C936%2C939%2C961%2C 644%2C813%2C819%2C199%2C172%2C184%2C132%2C524%2C64 6%2C361%2C648%2C362%2C915%2C364%2C134%2C732%2C652% 2C366%2C174%2C734%2C328%2C144%2C258%2C146%2C656%2C 463%2C654%2C528%2C336%2C923%2C263%2C738%2C268%2C57 8%2C532%2C537%2C944%2C742%2C176%2C866%2C534%2C369% 2C536%2C744%2C429%2C186%2C433%2C925%2C178%2C746%2C 436%2C926%2C136%2C466%2C343%2C112%2C158%2C111%2C43 9%2C298%2C916%2C927%2C664%2C846%2C826%2C299%2C542% 2C582%2C967%2C474%2C443%2C754%2C917%2C698%2C544&s=NGDPDPC&grp=0&a=) (via wikipedia ;) )

I'd guess it's a difference between income and GDP, but either way it's in the top 5-10 in terms of richest countries p.h. population in the world.

Can't read too much into those figures, Qater is 4th but Ireland is 6th... (download the excel version and sort to check...)

[pineapple stu]

An art museum, a souq (market), some man-made island and forts and shopping malls. It's not really the same as the Pyramids at Giza, Palmyra in Syria, or the old city of Persepolis. Compared to those I don't think Qatar is going to offer a genuine Arabian / Middle Eastern experience to visitors at the World Cup. [/i]
Not sure I'd agree with that. I haven't been to any of the sites mentioned but, though they're obviously quite iconic, the pyramids in particular are almost a bit of a tourist trap at this stage I think; city landscape in the back, hawkers everywhere trying to pimp rides on camels to tourists at high prices. Is that a genuine cultural experience? Surely the least developed country in tourist terms (I would imagine Qatar out of those) would offer a more genuine experience? What could be more middle-east than browsing a souq, for example?

(And that's assuming you go to a World Cup for the cultural side of things, which sounds near to impossible going on reports of FIFAworld at recent World Cups)

[SkStu]

Either way its laughable that people think that this result means FIFA is corrupt while a victory for the US or the UK would've been fair. have none of you heard of wikileaks? They're more corrupt than most.

not really sure what wikileaks has to do with this but FIFA is a shambles and football is rotten from the top down. I personally believe an award to the US over Qatar would have been less obviously corrupt (fair is the wrong word) and have similar concerns about Russias award over England.


its actually sickening to hear the England bid people (and their media cheerleaders) refuse to even entertain the thought that their bid wasn't impeccable.

"excellent and remarkable" were Blatters remarks about Englands bid. It was the top bid overall according to the pre-vote evaluation reports. Even beneath all the glitz, celebrity and sheen it was by all accounts a very, very strong bid and I say the English have every reason to be a bit miffed.

[Dodge]

Those are the words he used for their presentation, not their bid. He said similar for all them. England's bid was criticised for lack of training facilities. You don't hear sky mentioning that?

[SkStu]

no - not for lack of training facilities. Lack of training facilities in close proximity to the stadia/team hotels which would hardly seem to represent the most insurmountable of problems given the excellent transport and infrastructure of Englands bid.

To refer back to your original post on this matter - the very fact that "not one of us" has seen the bids or evaluation reports (which were overwhelmingly damning of Qatars bid by the way) merely highlights the lack of transparency of FIFA and this whole bidding process. Is it any wonder that most people believe that these awards were corrupt?

[Dodge]

So why the outrage now? It's always been the case. Outrage seems to stem from English language media all crying about their bids on same day

[SkStu]

well then apply that logic to everything and see how far it gets you.

Why are people complaining about the Irish government now? Sure, its always been that way.
Why all the outrage over islamic subversion of women? Sure its always been that way.

I admire your nonchalant cynicism most of the time Dodge but youre wrong on this occasion in my opinion..

[osarusan]

So why the outrage now? It's always been the case. Outrage seems to stem from English language media all crying about their bids on same day

Yet we have Anson saying there's no point England applying with the system the way it is at the moment. Well seeing you knew what the system was, why did you bother applying this time then?

What gets me is the fake shock that FIFA might do business in a shady and underhand way, and the attempt to convince everybody that the FA were unaware of this. Indeed, there's even a subtle hint that they lost because they weren't involved in the kind of skullduggery the other bidders were (gifts of designer handbags notwithstanding).

[Dodge]

Why are people complaining about the Irish government now? Sure, its always been that way.
Why all the outrage over islamic subversion of women? Sure its always been that way.

A little perspective here?

Sweet jesus

[Spudulika]

I personally would have backed the English bid, if it had included Scotland and Wales, that would have been a real turn up, but it was never going to be. This was a major attempt at legacy bidding by Blair, carried on by Cameron and an effort to show how great England is. However they grabbed the Olympics for 2012, with all sorts of allegations in a far more corrupt voting system, yet where's the outcry over that? Geoff Thompson was whingeing afterwards about how they'd been guaranteed votes (presmably by Warner as they'd sent the English team out to play in Trinidad despite the ongoing court battles) - I'm sorry, but the day that you can be "guaranteed" votes, well, it's almost more Russian than anything else. One of the major factors FIFA pointed out (domestically) is that Russian football is still the game of the people with far greater accessibility to all levels of society - compared to England anywhere seems cheap!

Also this nonsense about hooliganism and racism, sorry, but there is too much false information doing the rounds now and smacks of a) sour grapes and b) total misinformation. There is racism in Russia, same as anywhere else, though colour is less to do with it that perceived ethnicity (I've experienced that myself). In stadia it's there though experienced in provincial clubs and against Caucasian groups. Hooliganism is present though not like that toole Danny Dyer presented, it's in a traditional form local faction fighting that is normally carried out over the winter and is far more prevalent during bandy season. What's more important is what will happen after the world cup to the new grounds, though it was explained to be that there will be a growth in interest that will lead to more bums on seats. Can't see it personally but all bids said the same thing.

Qatar, strange one, but it can work. I'd have preferred to have seen Saudi get it though they've pledged never to host it, maybe a joint bid Qatar-UAE-Bahrain would have made more sense. Though at least an Irish company is going to earn from it all!

[Lionel Ritchie]

Good post Spud. I'm disappointed England didn't get it but there's some balance and food for thought in there.

Meanwhile amongst all the dummy spitting that's going on in England Ken Bates (http://www.leedsunited.com/news/20101203/united-chairman-calls-for-fifa-break-away_2247585_2236291)manages to set new highs ...or lows I dunno. He wants to puncture the ball and run in home for his fish fingers anyway.

From Leeds United.com "United chairman Ken Bates is calling on the bigger footballing nations to consider breaking away from FIFA, following the double decision to hand the 2018 World Cup to Russia and the 2022 competition to Qatar...."

[superfrank]

Roll the calendar back twelve months and Irish people were all complaining about how corrupt FIFA was and how it should be exposed, etc. The English whining going on now is no different. FIFA upsets a country or its fans and the fans and country start mudslinging. It'd be much easier to entertain these complaints of corruption if the Spanish FA or Brazilian FA (or another one of FIFA's favourites) were making them. When an association, or its fans, who FIFA has upset complains, it'll always seem bitter.

That's not to suggest that it isn't true (I've read plenty to suggest FIFA is horribly corrupt) but there's no chance at all that the FA/English media (Panorama aside) would have the balls to make those same allegations before the vote or if they'd won. I'm not surprised whatsoever that people are blaming Panorama for the loss.

However, with all the talk of Russian hooliganism, I've found it funny that no-one in the English media has even considered the possibility that the trouble at the Birmingham derby the night before the vote could have raised concerns about hooliganism in their own back yard.

On the bids themselves, I have no problem with Russia getting it. It is a traditional footballing nation and they have a thriving league. The Qatar bid boggles from a infrastructural and football point of view but, of course, money talks.

[Spudulika]

That's precious Lionel (the Ken Bates rant), I've read with interest the outpouring from Burden - he said he couldn't work with FIFA as they were too corrupt - and he discovered this when exactly.....? It's as corrupt as the FA, the FAI or whatever other governing organisation in the world who can sense where gain can be made. What it most laughable of all is that he insists that "no fewer than 6" members promised to vote for England - why? What bought them off? And everybody is claiming Geoff Thompson voted for England, what if he didn't? Isn't it corrupt that he had a vote at all?

This will run and run because it's ruined the next chance for overpaid and overhyped english footballers to flop at a tournament finals, but be close to home.

[pineapple stu]

What is most laughable of all is that he insists that "no fewer than 6" members promised to vote for England - why? What bought them off?
And as well, how many other bids did those people promise votes to?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Glad 'Ingerland' didn't get it, they're far too up themselves for it to have been a good thing. Despite some great, if souless, stadia and an over-rated transport system. And it would have been a complete rip-off, money-wise.
Not to mention the mutant hooliganism/latent racism threat.
Though agree Russia could be even worse in all these respects.

As for 'Papa Smurf', aka. Ken B*tes, p*ssing in the wind about any breakaway.

Lastly Russia/Qatar, a bit off the wall.
Who cares anyway where the Finals are played anyway, besides attending them as a fan, most World Cup Final games are fecking cr*p these days....

[The Fly]

McGeady's move to Spartak swung it for the Russians, apparently. ;)

[SkStu]

A little perspective here?

Sweet jesus

congratulations on missing the point. (though we both know you didnt really miss the point)

[Spudulika]

Heard the Irish Daily Mirror's man rail against FIFA, and all of this smacks of a teenage disco - you ask someone for a dance, they refuse, then you tell them you didn't fancy them anyway! And what's more, the only reason they turned you down was because they're unsure of their own sexuality and that you're the best person for them and even more than that, they'd be lucky to have someone as good as you because everyone told you this!

I don't know how many times I've been doorstepped by politicians or been canvassed and I've told them (except FF) that I'd think of them when it came time to make my mark. Same happens with FIFA yet all the votes are made known afterwards - how ridiculous is that? Actually, that's the scandal, and makes me worry about our great election next year!

[osarusan]

The point is that it's a game, a pretty ugly political game at that, and England knew that when they entered. They played badly and lost, and decided to kick up a fuss about the lack of tranparency and fairness about the whole process.

But they weren't bothered about these things when they were giving designer bags to partners of FIFA executives not so long ago. They weren't bothered when their exec Thompson made a voting deal with the Korean exec (who reneged on it). The guardian today are trying to portray him as a man of principle on the basis that he refused to promise his vote to multiple bidders, and yet failing to comment on the contradiction of his position with the main complaint of the English bid: that their technical advantage seemingly counted for nothing. It certainly counted for nothing as fas as Thompson was concerned, as he was engaging in a deal which was supposed to ensure England a vote.

The Guardian at least have the decency to admit that if England had got the WC, then all these cries for transparency and reform wouldn't be coming from the English media right now.

Don't get me wrong, it's a stinking system which does need reform, but this notion that the principled English bid is outraged by the shadiness of which they were previously unaware is laughable. They played the game just like everybody else, but they lost.

[Spudulika]

That's really well put Osarusan (especially the bit about the system being dodgy). What it all boils down to is England lost at something, and somebody has to be blamed. Panorama were thrown in there, the Sunday Times too, and even the bid "team" were angry with the BBC and Times for their efforts, writing letters to FIFA saying how great they were and how they trusted the process, yet as soon as they lose it's all guns blazing.

What nobody seems to get is that England failed a fair bit of the criteria, Belgium-Holland too, even Spain and Portugal were taken to task over the financial stability in each country. Russia looks the safest in terms of economy right now and that's saying something. Yet this will run and run.

Having moved back to an almost friendly neutral point since the late 80's with English football, I now find myself disgusting and against them again. Purely for their self-righteous, blinkered views. And it's not just in their media, the wallies who care more about the bottom line than sport are out in force.

[superfrank]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11921692

LOL.

[Dodge]

So thye can't even bribe properly

[superfrank]

Actually, Sebastian Coe was on FIFA's ethics committee (before joining England's committee) and would know all about any trouble (or alleged) going on there but, afaik, he did nothing about it. AFAIK, he hasn't been one of the English bid members to partake in the uproar since Thursday. Is he aware that all this protesting will be futile?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/7056420.stm

[Bluebeard]

There is a pillock over here trying to stir up some trouble (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-jones-soccer-20101205,0,7598610.column) in the local media, calling on the US football federation and other bodies, who have by and large been graceful in defeat, to kick up and cry and fail to accept what has happened.

[BonnieShels]

Just reading those external articles makes me even warmer of heart knowing that Ingerland and Americay won't host them. I find it funny and unsurprising, and most of us are at how the reactions have been. I refuse to believe though if it was Netherlands-Belgium and Australia that would have won it that that there would be this outcry.
The dogs in the street know FIFA are corrupt and I even assumed that this would have been the end result.
We all remember the furore when Germany won 2006 and I don't think anyone could complain about that WC. There will be this sort of whining everytime a bid is lost. People forget the outrage when Manchester didn't win The Olympics for 2000. So get ready for the announcement in a few years for Spain 2026.

[SkStu]

people here are forgetting that it is not just about England not winning. Its the bigger picture and Qatar is the far more outrageous decision in my opinion. Maybe the focus is more intensely about 2018 over there.