Democracy now!

[Reality Bites]

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/bruce-arnold-this-is-the-biggest-political-betrayal-in-irish-history-2432960.html

I agree with Bruce Arnolds rant.. our government and the next are mere puppets of Europe and these guys in turn are acting on behalf of major bondholders interest (investment banks, large corporations etc..) Its a crime against the very idea of democracy and sadly we are now a debtor nation beholden to the invisible forces of the market..Election 2011 is irrelevant for the Irish public.

[BonnieShels]

So then we shouldn't have one then?

This is the sort of needless comment that males people frustrated and not involved with the process.
We need media demanding FF's head on a platter. That's all we need now.

[Macy]

There are parties that oppose it, such as SF, People Before Profit, Socialist Party, Workers Party, and some random right wing party (ganley?) that'll pop up. There are always alternatives to vote for.

To be honest, it reads more of the FF voter mantra "sure they're all the same". Darcy was at the same yesterday - funny how he thinks the system is the problem and there's no point voting, now FF have ballsed things up. Imo this type of stuff is to disillusion people not to vote to prop up the FF vote - FF are relying on pensioners who always vote, so if you can minimise the other votes it increases their vote share and saves more seats.

[Reality Bites]

There are parties that oppose it, such as SF, People Before Profit, Socialist Party, Workers Party, and some random right wing party (ganley?) that'll pop up. There are always alternatives to vote for.

To be honest, it reads more of the FF voter mantra "sure they're all the same". Darcy was at the same yesterday - funny how he thinks the system is the problem and there's no point voting, now FF have ballsed things up. Imo this type of stuff is to disillusion people not to vote to prop up the FF vote - FF are relying on pensioners who always vote, so if you can minimise the other votes it increases their vote share and saves more seats.

But I can't see how much decision making we have left (not that we ever had much in the first place)...Europe will pull the strings for the next few years...so the Dail is purely a conduit of Brussels so whichever party gets in..it surely wil kowtow to the piper that pays for the tune..so local in the context of irish political parties is merely window dressing for Europe and the markets..we never did have a say on issues when the country had more political independence..the decision making was in the domain of a "specialized class" with the unruly masses involved every five years or so and then completely shut of frommajor policy decision making...I suspect Fintan O'Toole will enunciate something similar on his website in the coming days..

[shantykelly]

welcome to western democracy. if you dont like it, do something proactive about it.

[Macy]

But I can't see how much decision making we have left (not that we ever had much in the first place)...Europe will pull the strings for the next few years...so the Dail is purely a conduit of Brussels so whichever party gets in..it surely wil kowtow to the piper that pays for the tune..so local in the context of irish political parties is merely window dressing for Europe and the markets..we never did have a say on issues when the country had more political independence..the decision making was in the domain of a "specialized class" with the unruly masses involved every five years or so and then completely shut of frommajor policy decision making...I suspect Fintan O'Toole will enunciate something similar on his website in the coming days..
No, any new Government could pull the plug on the EU/IMF deal. If that's what people want, they can vote for the numerous parties that'll stand on that platform. Bottom line is vote - failure to do so means that FF seats will be saved, which is surely be worst of all worlds, if that's how you feel?

[legendz]

The government is acting in the best interest of the bond-holder. It is a disgrace and it's the tax payer who is footing the bill. What's worse is that the people have voted in this government.
The country needs a new party for the people.

[BonnieShels]

The country needs a lobotomy.

[DaveyCakes]

To quote Dr. Hibbert, we need fire, and lots of it!

[OneRedArmy]

The country needs a new party for the people.the country needs a new people and the party will follow....

[BonnieShels]

I have been watching some of the comments mates of mine have been making in emails and on bookface and it's astounding what people think. The amount of Gilmore is greater than Kenny bull I see is unreal. Every time I query their basis for it the answer is "I prefer Gilmore's policies" or "Kenny is slimy". I think it's the other way. Gilmore is the slimiest politician (excluding any FFer) in a long time. You can't pin him to anything. I hate that. At least you can disagree with Kenny if you want because more often than not you know what he stands for. that's what democracy is about.

[dahamsta]

They're both slimey, and neither can be tied down, sadly. I think I'd prefer non-commital to outright lies though.

Biffo said last night at a FF gathering in Donegal that he was offended that everyone thinks he lied, everyone thinks he's ruined the country. He's either a liar or incompetent, he can't be neither.

[BonnieShels]

But he can be both. Which he is.

[John83]

Biffo said last night at a FF gathering in Donegal that he was offended that everyone thinks he lied, everyone thinks he's ruined the country. He's either a liar or incompetent, he can't be neither.
He could be genuinely offended. I could believe he has that kind of insane sense of entitlement. Not that that would exclude the possibility of either or both of your interpretations being true at the same time - I believe that FF leaders are generally that talented.

[Spudulika]

I think we are ruling out the genuine god complexes FF'ers have, especially Ministers. Watching Lenihan's disgraceful performance a couple of months ago on Prime Time when he refused to countenance any outcome other than his own prediction, and Cowen continuing to lie and let his lies spin, they refuse to be wrong because they're not. And of course they're right. The gombeens who voted them in are wrong, though I still cannot see FF being irrelevant after the next election, they'll be back in with Labour.

[culloty82]

Fintan O'Toole admittedly writes and speaks piles of waffle, but it's hard to disagree with the majority of his newly-launched petition (http://fintanotoole.ie/petition/).

[mypost]

There are parties that oppose it, such as SF, People Before Profit, Socialist Party, Workers Party, and some random right wing party (ganley?) that'll pop up. There are always alternatives to vote for.

Ganley is gone. There will probably be just 4 parties in the Dail after it.

As bad a result for the country as 2007 was, it was a rollercoaster of a campaign with the outcome in doubt, right up until the week the coalition was formed. With no alternative on the table this time, it's not really a proper contest, as the outcome is already known, and there is only one possible government/Taoiseach as a result of it.

[Reality Bites]

Fintan O'Toole admittedly writes and speaks piles of waffle, but it's hard to disagree with the majority of his newly-launched petition (http://fintanotoole.ie/petition/).

Maybe in so called "Normal Times" Fintan appeared to be outlandish...but now that we know the emperor has no clothes and our current system is in shambles..most of Fintans suggestions appear on the face of it to be very sensible indeed.

[Dodge]

Ganley is gone. There will probably be just 4 parties in the Dail after it.

As bad a result for the country as 2007 was, it was a rollercoaster of a campaign with the outcome in doubt, right up until the week the coalition was formed. With no alternative on the table this time, it's not really a proper contest, as the outcome is already known, and there is only one possible government/Taoiseach as a result of it.

The taoiseach's role is overplayed. Finance minister is more important now. The make up of the government is very, very much up in the air.

Next dail will have at least 7 parties represented IMO (FF, FG, Lab, SF, GP, Soc, PbP). A few indies too

[Spudulika]

Does anyone think that FF will be gone for a generation? I still believe they have enough gobsheens in the country who will back them. Unless there is a specific Labour-FG pact before the election FF will be in the mix.

[dahamsta]

I don't think so. I think we could actually be saddled with them again next time around unless the next government actually affects some change. Unfortunately we go around in circles in Ireland: FF destroys the country and puts us into recession, someone else starts cleaning it up but obviously has trouble with it, and FF get back in again on the back of that. We have short memories.

[Dodge]

I’ve said it before but FF will always have some share of the vote because they exist for one reason only; to get elected.

Despite their clearly right wing fiscal policies, Bertie tried to claim they were socialists. They call themselves the Republican party when it suits them. They’ll fight tooth and nail for every vote, until it looks like they’ll be turfed out and they talk about “national government”. – all to keep power.

As long as the parish pumpers keep the locals happy, FF will always be a power.

[Spudulika]

Listening to/half watching Cowen making a "passionate" speech in the Dail. He is a fraud and has been found out, he needs to be relieved of his duties and I think he'd be delighted with it. Joan Burton, for all her faults, made a show of him and Cowen is struggling. Until we get rid of family/clan leadership we're in an ever decreasing circle of misery.

FF will get a good vote in 2011, and be back fully in government because the country will be cowered into voting for "safe hands" by the bootlickers in the media.

[mypost]

The taoiseach's role is overplayed. Finance minister is more important now. The make up of the government is very, very much up in the air.

Next dail will have at least 7 parties represented IMO (FF, FG, Lab, SF, GP, Soc, PbP). A few indies too

The choice of government is either FG and Lab, or FG and Lab. As you can see, it's on a knife edge.

I don't think the Greens will keep a seat. The PD's lost 6 seats last time and are gone. In good times. So the Greens could lose all 6 next time. SF will increase from 5 seats, to join the other 3 parties. After that, it's Independents to make up the numbers.