Squad announced for friendlies

[One Brian Kerr]

Given (Newcastle United), Colgan (Hibernian), Kenny (Sheffield United), Maybury (Hearts), Finnan (Liverpool), Cunningham (Birmingham City), O'Brien (Newcastle United), Doherty (Tottenham Hotspur), Breen (Sunderland), Clarke (Stoke City), Holland (Charlton Athletic), Douglas (Blackburn Rovers), O'Shea (Manchester United), Miller (Celtic), Roy Keane (Manchester United), A Reid (Nottingham Forest), Rowlands (QPR), Kennedy (Wolverhampton Wanderers), Doyle (Coventry City), S Reid (Blackburn Rovers), Quinn (Sheffield Wednesday), Delap (Southampton), McPhail (Leeds United), Kinsella (WBA), McAteer (Sunderland), Barrett (Coventry City), Robbie Keane (Tottenham Hotspur), McGeady (Celtic), Lee (Cardiff City), Connolly (West Ham United), Morrison (Birmingham City).

[Plastic Paddy]

No Gallen, Nolan or Macken. I guess that puts that one to bed then. :)

:D PP

[Dodge]

Rowlands of QPR is the only brand new name...

[eirebhoy]

Rowlands of QPR is the only brand new name...
Clarke, McGeady...

[Bowsy]

Rowlands of QPR is the only brand new name...

First squad for McGeady and Clarke too. Not a bad mix. should see everyone get a run during next three games. Wouldn't mind seeing how Rowlands looks at this level. Exceptional in 2nd Division.

[4tothefloor]

No Ian Harte. Was he dropped, or is he injured? Disappointed not to see Sean Thornton in the squad, i think it's a complete waste of time persevering with McPhail. Kinsella as well. Thornton should be drafted in for games like this. I know Sunderland are involved in the playoffs, but McAteer and Breen are in the squad.

[drummerboy]

No Stephen Carr. Is he still injured?

[Metrostars]

And Kennedy is called in? When was the last time he put on a green shirt?

[eirebhoy]

No Stephen Carr. Is he still injured?
Well he's not on the physio's list:
http://www.physioroom.com/news/table_current.shtml

Strange...

[drummerboy]

Just checked the Spurs website and Stephen Carr has an ankle injury. Also said that Mark Yates is to make his debut against Wolves tomorrow. Good luck to him

[tiktok]

Clarke (Stoke City).

any info? don't know him


Roy Keane (Manchester United).

Can't see him being there to be honest, unlikely to play for United again this season (at least unlikely to be fit), expect him to be injury listed sooner rather than later.


Rowlands (QPR),Doyle (Coventry City).

again, any info? know a bit about Doyle.


Kinsella (WBA).

When was the last time we had a clubless squad member? (No golf jokes please) If he's not good enough for WBA now, how can he be good enough for Ireland down the line.


McGeady (Celtic).

Way too early for a cap, pure politics IMO, give him a full cap in case the scots try to nab him.

Overall though, it's a young squad which is promising. Lookign forward to romania now.

[Bowsy]

Clarke is left full for Stoke and a fairly tidy player by all accounts. Only 24 as well unless I'm mistaken.

Rowlands is QPR's player of the season and has been banging in goals from right midfield as if he was a centre forward. Only 25 so still plenty of time to come good if he has a good season in the first division next year.

As it's a chance to experiment no harm in having McGeady in there. Would have been nice to see Thornton and Byrne given a chance in squad ahead of Alan Quinn(no good enough and been released by Wednesday) and Kinsella(been a good servant but International days are behind him)

[One Brian Kerr]

When was the last time we had a clubless squad member? (No golf jokes please) If he's not good enough for WBA now, how can he be good enough for Ireland down the line.

I don't think Breen had a club during the 2002 WC

[NeilMcD]

Out of Mancs.' last Lge.game & poss.FAC Final........Goodbye & good riddance?

This is sad, are you going to do this every time there is a squad announced, can you not just get over it and accept he is back or is that beyond you. If Brian Kerr wants him in the squad that is his decision and i think he knows more about it then me or you so just accept it.

[Pat O' Banton]

Plays left back. From what I have seen of Clive Clarke (Mrs O' Banton is a Stoke fan :( ) he is fairly solid. I honestly did not think that he would make the grade a couple of years ago, I particularly remember him getting a roasting from Brian Tinnion (I think) in the Auto Windssreen cup final, but promotion to Div One seems to have suited him and he has grown in confidence and looks a better defender. Looks capable going forward however doesn't score many but seems to have a good shot.

[Littlest Hobo]

Its good to see the young lads given a chance. Alot do play for crap clubs though. We've only got one decent striker. If Robbie gets injured, then were fooked.
Happy to see McGeady in there. Its good to give him a taste of the goings on.

[Slash/ED]

And no Jason Byrne.

I suppose the strikers included are better than him alright. Some good young guys could be coming through. McGeady and Doyle from Coventry is supposed to be handy. Will Keano play...........

yeah, a reserve coventry mid fielder with about four senior goals in his entire career is quite clearly a far better option up front than him :rolleyes:

it's a non sense seing wasters like Maybury, Kinsella, Barrett, McPhail, Kennedy and Quinn (Just released by a mid table second division club, clearly international class than :rolleyes: ). If Kerr thinks they have an international future than I'm very, very, very worried.

[Littlest Hobo]

yeah, a reserve coventry mid fielder with about four senior goals in his entire career is quite clearly a far better option up front than him :rolleyes:

it's a non sense seing wasters like Maybury, Kinsella, Barrett, McPhail, Kennedy and Quinn (Just released by a mid table second division club, clearly international class than :rolleyes:). If Kerr thinks they have an international future than I'm very, very, very worried.

Totally agree with yeah. Theres some right muppets in that squad.
Things are pretty bad when we start looking in the second division.
The French will be laughing when they see our squad in October :o

[finlma]

it's a non sense seing wasters like Maybury, Kinsella, Barrett, McPhail, Kennedy and Quinn (Just released by a mid table second division club, clearly international class than :rolleyes: ). If Kerr thinks they have an international future than I'm very, very, very worried.

I don't see too many alternatives really. Its 4 games in 10 days so we need a big squad. All the players you mentioned are dead wood but we need the numbers. I'm disappointed that Kevin Nolan didn't get called in.

[Slash/ED]

I don't see too many alternatives really. Its 4 games in 10 days so we need a big squad. All the players you mentioned are dead wood but we need the numbers. I'm disappointed that Kevin Nolan didn't get called in.

Thornton, Byrne, Crowe, Kelly and Elliot should all be in ahead of those wasters. If he's bringing in McGready, he should have no trouble being in the three youngsters there, and Byrne and Crowe are both alot better than Graham Barrett.

How can he leave out Thornton for, literally, a second division reject? it's ****ing laughable to be honest.

[Sheridan]

yeah, a reserve coventry mid fielder with about four senior goals in his entire career is quite clearly a far better option up front than him :rolleyes:

it's a non sense seing wasters like Maybury, Kinsella, Barrett, McPhail, Kennedy and Quinn (Just released by a mid table second division club, clearly international class than :rolleyes:). If Kerr thinks they have an international future than I'm very, very, very worried.
Quite. The selection of this squad is obviously a calculated insult to the eL. There is no other explanation for the calling-up of Rowlands, Maybury, Kennedy, McGeady and Barrett. I hope any eL players who are invited to join the squad when the inevitable withdrawals occur will have the sense to tell Kerr to stick his call-up up his a*se. What is he playing at?

That's pretty much that, as far as I'm concerned. I'm no longer going to take any significant interest in the national team. In fact, it's probably best if we start doing badly enough to force the FAI to take a long-term view and actually promote the development of Irish players.

[NeilMcD]

how do you know he is not injured or that he is out as mc carthy left him out, i think people should hold their horses and wait for the facts to develop but too often people just like to mouth off about who should and should not be in the squad. Its a squad of 31 for a country of 4 million. Of course there are going to be people there that are not up to it at the highest level but at the end of the day are starting 11 and probably 4 or 5 others are all Premiership and some champions league class and that is not bad for a small country. Kerr cannot create players out of no where.

[Slash/ED]

how do you know he is not injured or that he is out as mc carthy left him out, i think people should hold their horses and wait for the facts to develop but too often people just like to mouth off about who should and should not be in the squad. Its a squad of 31 for a country of 4 million. Of course there are going to be people there that are not up to it at the highest level but at the end of the day are starting 11 and probably 4 or 5 others are all Premiership and some champions league class and that is not bad for a small country. Kerr cannot create players out of no where.

It's not a selection of four million people. Alot of our team weren't born in Ireland, we've access to many many times 4 million people eligeble to play for us, so that argument is just wrong.

The fact is, there are better players out there he's just not picked them, god knows why.

And Sheridan, spot on. I Said on a Shels messageboard that now if Byrne gets a call up after injuries he should tell Kerr to **** off. Kerr obviously thinks he's given the EL it's five minutes for the year, that's all of us appeased, now it's back to picking second division reserves.

[NeilMcD]

Quite. The selection of this squad is obviously a calculated insult to the eL. There is no other explanation for the calling-up of Rowlands, Maybury, Kennedy, McGeady and Barrett. I hope any eL players who are invited to join the squad when the inevitable withdrawals occur will have the sense to tell Kerr to stick his call-up up his a*se. What is he playing at?

That's pretty much that, as far as I'm concerned. I'm no longer going to take any significant interest in the national team. In fact, it's probably best if we start doing badly enough to force the FAI to take a long-term view and actually promote the development of Irish players.


Kerr said he was reluctant to select home based players as the season here was just gaining momentum.

"I don't want to take eircom League players away from their clubs for a long period of time if they're not going to be involved in every game. Unless there's a realistic chance of them playing I wont do it. This is the best squad for the time."

[Plastic Paddy]

Quite. The selection of this squad is obviously a calculated insult to the eL.

No, you're not paranoid. They really are out to get you. :rolleyes:


I hope any eL players who are invited to join the squad when the inevitable withdrawals occur will have the sense to tell Kerr to stick his call-up up his a*se.

As if. Would you?


That's pretty much that, as far as I'm concerned. I'm no longer going to take any significant interest in the national team.

Your call. I'd wait around and judge Kerr on his results first. I don't agree with several of his selections, but I don't think I'd ever take it quite as far as you suggest. Toys out of pram, anyone?

:ball: PP

[Plastic Paddy]

Kerr said he was reluctant to select home based players as the season here was just gaining momentum.

"I don't want to take eircom League players away from their clubs for a long period of time if they're not going to be involved in every game. Unless there's a realistic chance of them playing I wont do it. This is the best squad for the time."

That would explain it. I must say that I was surprised not to see at least one eL player - Byrne, probably - make the 31.

:) PP

[Slash/ED]

Kerr said he was reluctant to select home based players as the season here was just gaining momentum.

"I don't want to take eircom League players away from their clubs for a long period of time if they're not going to be involved in every game. Unless there's a realistic chance of them playing I wont do it. This is the best squad for the time."

That's a cop out. You ask Byrne where he's rather be playing, Tolka or Lansedowne and the answer wouldn't be Tolka, and we'd all understand that. The club wouldn't mind loseing a player for a few weeks if it meant he could do something he's probably dreamed about since he was growing up.

[finlma]

Quite. The selection of this squad is obviously a calculated insult to the eL. There is no other explanation for the calling-up of Rowlands, Maybury, Kennedy, McGeady and Barrett. I hope any eL players who are invited to join the squad when the inevitable withdrawals occur will have the sense to tell Kerr to stick his call-up up his a*se. What is he playing at?

That's pretty much that, as far as I'm concerned. I'm no longer going to take any significant interest in the national team. In fact, it's probably best if we start doing badly enough to force the FAI to take a long-term view and actually promote the development of Irish players.

That's a bit of an over-reaction. It's hardly a calculated insult. If any EL player gets called in after withdrawals they should consider themselve proud to be representing their country.
Your choice if you don't want to follow the national team. You probably won't even read this message as you'll have left the board if you no longer care. As for hoping Ireland loose, that's not even worth a response it's so pathetic.

[Slash/ED]

That's a bit of an over-reaction. It's hardly a calculated insult. If any EL player gets called in after withdrawals they should consider themselve proud to be representing their country.


Yeah, I'm sure he'll be so proud that he's playing second fiddle to a Coventry City reserve mid fielder who's got about four senior goals in his entire career.

[Sheridan]

As if. Would you?
If someone humiliated me like this, you flipping bet I would.


Your call. I'd wait around and judge Kerr on his results first. I don't agree with several of his selections, but I don't think I'd ever take it quite as far as you suggest. Toys out of pram, anyone?

Screw his results. It took Irish football ten years to recover from the "success" of the Charlton years. It's about time we started thinking about creating a sustainable future for Irish football, instead of this short-term balls of being happy to get (or nearly get) to a European Championships or World Cup.

Instead, we get the likes of McGeady. Maybe he will turn out to be a great footballer, who knows? If that happens, I'm sure we'll all be very proud. Look, footballing fraternity, we can get other small, struggling nations to produce our players, snatch them when they reach adulthood and achieve passable results! What a great footballing nation we are!

I've seen that future. I've lived in that future. And it's balls.

[NeilMcD]

the point is the standard in the league of ireland is about 2nd division or low down 1st division standard. kerr knows this as much as anybody he manged in it for a good number of years. He also does nogt want to take players away from their squads if the season is up and going. The job of the Irish football manager is to pick the best players available to him at the time. Kerr knows more about football then anyone on this board and it his is view and you have to respect it. If all the league of ireland players were all so good they woudl not be playing in the league of ireland as they would be off earnign higher wages were ever they could get it. thats the way of the world, its called looking after your family. If we only picked players based in Ireland we woudl never get anywhere and we would get beaten consistantly by most international teams.

[Plastic Paddy]

Neil, for once I pretty much agree with your entire post (not all of it, mind. ;) ) Good stuff. :)

Sheridan, on a specific point McGeady opted for Ireland. He's a product of the diaspora. He wasn't "nicked" by anyone.

Don't blame Brian Kerr for the structural failings of the game in Ireland. The fact that the infrastructure - financial, coaching, physical - hasn't been developed is not down to him; it's a matter for the FAI and for the clubs. Like Charlton before him, Kerr's job is to pick the best players available to him. Irrespective of the youth system that produces them.

:) PP

[NeilMcD]

what u mean for once ya git, well thanks anwyay

[Sheridan]

Sheridan, on a specific point McGeady opted for Ireland. He's a product of the diaspora. He wasn't "nicked" by anyone.
Oh, for goodness' sake, don't get me into this, please. He's a product of the Scottish footballing system, END OF. That's where he was educated, that's where he learned his football, that's who should reap the rewards.

And yes, Kerr's remit does extend to putting right the structural failings of Irish football. He's made that claim himself on innumerable occasions. It's about time he started doing something about it.

[Slash/ED]

the point is the standard in the league of ireland is about 2nd division or low down 1st division standard. kerr knows this as much as anybody he manged in it for a good number of years. He also does nogt want to take players away from their squads if the season is up and going. The job of the Irish football manager is to pick the best players available to him at the time. Kerr knows more about football then anyone on this board and it his is view and you have to respect it. If all the league of ireland players were all so good they woudl not be playing in the league of ireland as they would be off earnign higher wages were ever they could get it. thats the way of the world, its called looking after your family. If we only picked players based in Ireland we woudl never get anywhere and we would get beaten consistantly by most international teams.

If Graham Barrett was so good he'd have more than 4 senior goals in his entire career and coudl get a game for ****ing Coventry. Your wages argument is b*ll*cks, if rumours are to be believed certain LOI players earn the guts of two grand a week, which is near enough the wage limit at Sheffield United, as an example, as far as I know.

In fact he's picking second division players. No, in fact, he's picked a player days ago deemend not good enough to even warrent giving a contract extension to by a mid table second division club. Also he's picking a Coventry reserve, and yet he ignores Byrne. Byrne has twice as many goals in his 10 matches this season than Barretts managed in his entire career. In a league, you yourself have admitted, isn't too far from the one he's playing in.

How is it that i the U21s, O'Flynn, an Eircom League player, can completley and totally outshine Barrett, yet when it comes to the senior team, Barrett gets in and and the top scorer in O'Flynns league is ingore. It's a joke.

Kerr has given the EL it's token gesture, now it's back to picking no hopers from England soley because they play in England. To even claim Barrett is as good, let alone better than, Byrne is a joke.

[NeilMcD]

so are you saying that we shoudl only pick players that come through or system and stay and play in the league of ireland. So whatr you are saying is that if a players is really good and he is at bohemians and all of a sudden man utd offer him lots of money to play he shoudl either say no i want to stay here and barely look after my family or fact the fact i cant play for my country again. We live in a Europe where workers can move anywhere they want and work in any European country. YOu cannot punish people cause either they were not brought up in the footballing system here or they have chosen to look after their family and move abroad to play football.

[Plastic Paddy]

Oh, for goodness' sake, don't get me into this, please. He's a product of the Scottish footballing system, END OF. That's where he was educated, that's where he learned his football, that's who should reap the rewards.

You're on very dangerous ground with this statement. By your reasoning - if I may call it that - the likes of Kevin Kilbane, Steve Finnan, Andy O'Brien etc. should be playing their football for England. N'est ce pas? Er, no. I think you, I and all hereabouts know the answer to that.

Your club - well, it's former incarnation, anyroad - was superbly successful at producing youth players only to see them hoovered up by the English system. It's the senior clubs in Ireland as well as the FAI who should be looking to themselves as to why they couldn't provide the coaching or financial returns to keep them in the domestic game. The results are there for all to see now. As you yourself intimate.


Kerr has given the EL it's token gesture, now it's back to picking no hopers from England soley because they play in England.

It's hard not to see it that way, it must be said. This would have been an ideal time to give Byrne and O'Flynn a run-out. Kerr has done himself no PR favours, that's for sure.

:) PP

[NeilMcD]

[QUOTE=Slash/ED]. Your wages argument is b*ll*cks, if rumours are to be believed certain LOI players earn the guts of two grand a week, which is near enough the wage limit at Sheffield United, as an example, as far as I know.QUOTE]

so my argument is bollock on the back of certain rumours and a wage limit that you say is as far I know. I think you are lacking facts in that statement. You cannot call my argument ******** and then back yours up with conjecture. I have never said that barrett was better, all i said was trust Kerr on this one, Obviously there has been agreement with LOI squads not to take players for this friendlies as it is in the middle of teh season. As far as i can see you are arguing about little poings when it appears there is whole bigger agenda going on which is only to pick players that play in LOI or ones that have come through our footballing system and you are bias in favour of ones that play in LOI

[Sheridan]

You're on very dangerous ground.
Only if one happens to be a fan of unsophisticated 19th century politics.

By your reasoning - if I may call it that - the likes of Kevin Kilbane, Steve Finnan, Andy O'Brien etc. should be playing their football for England. N'est ce pas? Er, no. I think you, I and all hereabouts know the answer to that.
I know your answer. You evidently don't know mine, or you wouldn't presume to be so erroneously peremptory.

An Iranian journalist once asked me, upon seeing the Irish squad for the 2002 WC play-off, if Ireland had no league of its own. His tone of genuine bewilderment has stayed with me ever since. The scales fell from my eyes. I hope that someday, you will find yourself similarly enlightened.

[NeilMcD]

how many french players play in the french league, most of their squad is playing abroad too. Its a fact of life and they have a country of 60 million. We are a nation of 4 million where the 3rd sport in the country is football. We also live beside a country that has 56 million and teh 1st sport is football and has huge money behind it as a result. This is then broadcast around the world. Due to this the clubs there can offer huge wages to players . So if you are a gifted player here you are going to be snapped up by an english club who will offer you the chance of a better lifestyle and a window of opportunity to further your careers. Most players go for it as they like the rest of humanity want to look after themselves and their familes. As a result the quality does not stay in the LOI as much as it should and due to this and other reasons the fans do not go to games in Ireland. Another reason is there is too many LOI clubs in Dublin for a city of 1 and half million it has about 7 or 8 clubs nearby. Another thing is that a lot people in ireland are not used to going to football matches as they were not taken by their dads etc, and they associate football with watching it on the TV. When they get older they watch football on the TV and go to Gaa in person but never think to go to a LOI game. As a result the LOI clubs cannot afford to keep the players and lots try their luck abroad. Why shoudl any of these players be punished for doing what anyone else would do in the cicumstances.

[Slash/ED]

[QUOTE=Slash/ED]. Your wages argument is b*ll*cks, if rumours are to be believed certain LOI players earn the guts of two grand a week, which is near enough the wage limit at Sheffield United, as an example, as far as I know.QUOTE]

so my argument is bollock on the back of certain rumours and a wage limit that you say is as far I know. I think you are lacking facts in that statement. You cannot call my argument ******** and then back yours up with conjecture. I have never said that barrett was better, all i said was trust Kerr on this one, Obviously there has been agreement with LOI squads not to take players for this friendlies as it is in the middle of teh season. As far as i can see you are arguing about little poings when it appears there is whole bigger agenda going on which is only to pick players that play in LOI or ones that have come through our footballing system and you are bias in favour of ones that play in LOI

Yeah, because I think Byrne is better than Barrett clearly what I mean is we should only ever cap LOI players. Right.

And your argument about if Byrne was any good he'd of gone to England to 'provide for the family' IS ********, because players over here are on as much as they'd get in most average division one clubs, so there'd be no reason to leave unless a top division one club or a premiership club came in.

[NeilMcD]

he is not in the squad cause it is in the middle of the season not becuase kerr thinks barret is better but you and sheridan are paranoid. kerr is always going on about the EL and attends many games and manged in it for 10 years so think that he is anti EL is madness.

[Plastic Paddy]

Only if one happens to be a fan of unsophisticated 19th century politics.

At this stage you've lost me, and that's despite being in possession of two politics-based degrees.


I know your answer. You evidently don't know mine, or you wouldn't presume to be so erroneously peremptory.

And so you should. I'm quite clear and direct about it.

So, having been erroneously peremptory, what exactly is your answer then? And - please - spare me the bombast. I'm a simple soul. ;)


An Iranian journalist once asked me, upon seeing the Irish squad for the 2002 WC play-off, if Ireland had no league of its own. His tone of genuine bewilderment has stayed with me ever since. The scales fell from my eyes. I hope that someday, you will find yourself similarly enlightened.

I'm open-minded, Sheridan, and big enough to admit it if I see the points you make. Enlighten me.

:) PP

[Sheridan]

Yeah, because I think Byrne is better than Barrett clearly what I mean is we should only ever cap LOI players. Right.
Think he was referring to me, in fairness.

FWIW, I don't think we should only cap LoI players. I personally feel that we should be obliged to select a minimum number of LoI players in each squad as part of a broader strategy to inject some credibility into the international laughing stock that is Irish football.

Ideally, we should be looking at a situation whereby (in ten years' time) 30% of the international squad will comprise home-based players, with a further 30%-40% having played senior club football in Ireland at some stage of their careers.

[Slash/ED]

he is not in the squad cause it is in the middle of the season not becuase kerr thinks barret is better but you and sheridan are paranoid. kerr is always going on about the EL and attends many games and manged in it for 10 years so think that he is anti EL is madness.

That's a cop out from Kerr. Believe me, it would benefit Shels more to see Byrne get in an Ireland squad and promote their image than it would to have him available for a few weeks in the middle of a season. Byrne would much rather play for Ireland too.

[Plastic Paddy]

Think he was referring to me, in fairness.

FWIW, I don't think we should only cap LoI players. I personally feel that we should be obliged to select a minimum number of LoI players in each squad as part of a broader strategy to inject some credibility into the international laughing stock that is Irish football.

Ideally, we should be looking at a situation whereby (in ten years' time) 30% of the international squad will comprise home-based players, with a further 30%-40% having played senior club football in Ireland at some stage of their careers.

If that's enlightenment, then I'd cautiously welcome it. It would have to be backed up with hard cash to work, of course. The global game is a marketplace just like any other, and players would need appropriate incentivisation to remain in/come to Ireland. And yes, the latter option does include players qualified to represent the country who may have been born elsewhere. "Some have come from a land beyond the sea", as our national anthem has it. But maybe that's a little too 19th century-unsophisticated. :p

:) PP

[NeilMcD]

Think he was referring to me, in fairness.

FWIW, I don't think we should only cap LoI players. I personally feel that we should be obliged to select a minimum number of LoI players in each squad as part of a broader strategy to inject some credibility into the international laughing stock that is Irish football.

Ideally, we should be looking at a situation whereby (in ten years' time) 30% of the international squad will comprise home-based players, with a further 30%-40% having played senior club football in Ireland at some stage of their careers.


that is the equivalent of teh cultural revolution in China, The fact is as a manager you pick teh best players regardless of where they place. Why should a player that is better than a LOI player be ruled out duie to the 30 per cent rule. Its a form of footballing communism, rather than rewarding the best you bring them back to the average. It punishes quality and those that want to better themselves. We are in a Europe of many nations where freedom of trade and workers is the norm, football is no different and if these were any sort of workers and they were been punished for workign in Germany or France there would be uproar. THere is not enough people in this country who want to watch league of Ireland football live to sustain such an idea.I do think that players should stay longer in Ireland and maybe till they are 21 or 20 and if they are good enough then they can be snapped up, But imposing laws and rules did not work in China, it does not work in the PSNI and it would not work in the LOI and it woudl be a disaster for the Irish international team. What you dont realise is there is people out there that have no interested in the LOI but are huge Irish football fans as they may be from an area that has no LOI team.

[Sheridan]

At this stage you've lost me, and that's despite being in possession of two politics-based degrees.
I'm referring to nationalism, and "blood-based" nationalism in particular. If I felt that the Irish football team existed to represent Mary Harney, Boyzone, baconcabbageandpotatoes and the GAA, I wouldn't have supported it in the first place. And surely not even the most deluded nationalist thinks that the footballing exploits of eleven men represent their nation's superiority to all others. The national team should reflect the footballing culture and life of the nation in question. Pulling in ringers from over there ----> reflects pretty much the kind of footballing culture we have, but not the kind we should aspire to.


So, having been erroneously peremptory, what exactly is your answer then? And - please - spare me the bombast. I'm a simple soul. ;)
I've drawn up a skeletal blueprint for the future of Irish football, but I'm sure it would just attract scorn around these parts.

Besides, the path to enlightment is one that must be faced alone. ;)

[Plastic Paddy]

I'm referring to nationalism, and "blood-based" nationalism in particular. If I felt that the Irish football team existed to represent Mary Harney, Boyzone, baconcabbageandpotatoes and the GAA, I wouldn't have supported it in the first place. And surely not even the most deluded nationalist thinks that the footballing exploits of eleven men represent their nation's superiority to all others. The national team should reflect the footballing culture and life of the nation in question. Pulling in ringers from over there ----> reflects pretty much the kind of footballing culture we have, but not the kind we should aspire to.

Whoah! That's quite a paradigm shift you made there... :eek:

In terms of the context you use, I believe that Kilbane et al are NOT ringers. They represent their country. It might not be the one they were born in, but nonetheless it is still their country. As it is yours and mine. Señor Lopez will expand further when he gets around to this thread, I'm sure.

Clinton Morrison? Now that's the type of player we can do without if I'm being honest, although as long as he plays in the green, he'll get my support. We're no-one's last resort.


I've drawn up a skeletal blueprint for the future of Irish football, but I'm sure it would just attract scorn around these parts.

Besides, the path to enlightment is one that must be faced alone. ;)

Ahhh, the prophet is always unwelcome among his own... ;) And anyway, scorn is the resort of the fearful. If it's a good idea (and I'll presume that you believe it to be so) then why not table it here? You never know; people may actually like it. And if they don't you're well able to defend yourself, after all... :)

:D PP

[4tothefloor]

EL players are not international standard, therefore they should not be in international squads. Byrne is not top international standard. Neither is Crowe. Neither is John O'Flynn. The standard of the EL is nowhere near Division 1 standard in England either - its about lower to, at a push and being generous, top of Div 2 standard. A few years ago it was no better than the English 3rd Division, so it has improved, but has a long way to go yet.

I don't understand peoples ire here regarding EL players not making squads. They're not good enough, except as cover or in an emergency, so get over it!

Another few things. Alan Quinn was released because Wednesday could not afford him any longer as he was due a pay rise. Expect him to join Sunderland, or a 1st Div club. Barret has played ok this season, is playing at a good standard, and already has a goal at senior level - More than our two EL strikers, with roughly the same amount of time on the pitch.

Kerr has as much right to look at these young players as he has calling up EL players. After all, they are playing at a higher standard than the EL, so I don't see what the problem is. I don't agree that they should be in the squad, or that they are of international standard, but aren't these the type of games where you are supposed to look at these type of players? Kerr has already looked at Byrne and Crowe, and he obviously hasn't been impressed enough by them, either in games, or in training.