Revolution... what's wrong with Irish people?

[BonnieShels]

I've had enough of this stasis.

If there was a local clinic being closed in Borrisokane there would be protests on the street yet FF and the Greens have for the past 2 years presided over the systematic destruction of this state.

They clearly have no mandate to implement an iota of the next budget so what does it take to get us on the streets?
I'm talking about the people of Ireland not different interests groups, ie. Students, oaps, pbpa...

[TheBoss]

The problem with the Irish people seems to be that they waiting for somebody else to do something and when the do, they say, it will make no difference. Sure recently where I am 10,000 people protested about the Hospital been downgraded, and that was half the town !!!.

[mypost]

Another "country is fkd" thread.

People don't march, as it achieves nothing, and is counterproductive.

[dahamsta]

Try telling that to the people in other countries who have achieved and produced plenty.

mypost, people in here put up with a lot of commentary from you, an awful lot of it utter garbage. Extend the same courtesy to others or find somewhere else to post your twaddle.

[mypost]

Greece exploded in the spring. Their government ignored them. Same as in France lately.

30 protestors were arrested in London last week for standing up to the government they voted in 6 months ago. There was a demo outside the Dept. of Finance here the other week. What did it achieve? A few headlines in newspapers, Joe Duffy, and a news report yes, but no change in budget policy.

[OneRedArmy]

We're not fit to govern ourselves: discuss.

[hedderman]

We're not fit to govern ourselves: discuss.

Interesting idea. What annoys me is how everyone is perfectly happy to lay the blame squarely at Fianna Fail for the destruction of the country. Obviously they have spectacularly mismanaged the public finances but they were in a position to form three successive governments by virtue of their electoral mandate. They didn't get into office by coup d'état.

As for the Greens, I know they have been involved in a poor government over the last two years, characterised by the bank guarantee, but the fact remains that the property bubble caused a lot of the problems we currently face as a country and the Greens were the only party (with the possible exception of Labour) who were worried about the overemphasis on construction in the middle part of the last decade.

I think senior civil servants should hold their hands up and take a lot of the blame. The radical way in which McCreevy changed the tax base to one based largely on transaction based taxes as opposed to a more stable revenue base should have been challenged.

Regarding taking people onto the streets, I believe it to be counterproductive unless you have a clear set of aims and are willing to do a bit of research and try to propose a few alternatives rather than making pronouncements that sound good but have no substance. France is the perfect example of this. People all too happy to take to the streets at the drop of a hat but no rational debate, no concrete goals and no alternatives.

[osarusan]

We're not fit to govern ourselves: discuss.I think it's more accurate to say that we're not fit to elect ourselves.

[peadar1987]

We're not fit to govern ourselves: discuss.

I was going to argue with you, but then I realised I voted for the f***ing Greens!

[pineapple stu]

We're not fit to govern ourselves: discuss.
Isn't that pretty much what the Victorian English reckoned?

[dahamsta]

Greece exploded in the spring. Their government ignored them. Same as in France lately.

30 protestors were arrested in London last week for standing up to the government they voted in 6 months ago. There was a demo outside the Dept. of Finance here the other week. What did it achieve? A few headlines in newspapers, Joe Duffy, and a news report yes, but no change in budget policy.

Ever hear of the Rose Revolution? The Orange Revolution?

[DaveyCakes]

The Orange revolution? The one where one crowd of corrupt shysters got replaced by another, then when everyone realised that the second lot were also incompetent, they voted the first ones back in. Result!

[BonnieShels]

That's generally what happens here... FF get us into a hole, FG help us out of it. FG are boring and stable during the election campaign and FF offer the electorate magic beans and it starts over and over and over.

[OneRedArmy]

That's generally what happens here... FF get us into a hole, FG help us out of it. FG are boring and stable during the election campaign and FF offer the electorate magic beans and it starts over and over and over.You need to fit the Civil War in there somewhere.....

[BonnieShels]

You need to fit the Civil War in there somewhere.....

I was only willing to start from Lynch.

[dahamsta]

The Orange revolution? The one where one crowd of corrupt shysters got replaced by another, then when everyone realised that the second lot were also incompetent, they voted the first ones back in. Result!

I'm not talking about the politicians, I'm talking about people's revolutions. Please read the thread for context before replying.

[Billsthoughts]

Am not sure we need revolution. Just very wide ranging reform. In relation to voting in fianna fail all the time I think the country would benefit from some reform that would make it easier for the sizable amount of people who work/attend college in Dublin(or to a lesser extent the other population centres) but are registered at home, to vote in elections.

[mypost]

Ever hear of the Rose Revolution? The Orange Revolution?

Yes, but the reasons for them were completely different.

[Eminence Grise]

Was at a conference last month where Noel Whelan was one of the speakers. I dn't always agree with him, but he told an anecdote that has a sad ring of truth to it: a foreign journalist, asking why the Irish accepted spending cuts, bank bail outs etc etc when the Greeks were up in arms over similar policies, was told: in Ireland all our riots are on the radio.

[dahamsta]

Joe Duffy is the Irish Everyman's answer. Joe Duffy and The Star. Jesus help us, we're a country of morons.

[OneRedArmy]

Am not sure we need revolution. Just very wide ranging reform. In relation to voting in fianna fail all the time I think the country would benefit from some reform that would make it easier for the sizable amount of people who work/attend college in Dublin(or to a lesser extent the other population centres) but are registered at home, to vote in elections.the fact people still feel the need to travel back down the country to vote tells you all you need to know about parochial politics.

Updating the voters register is hardly rocket science and you get contacted frequently about it. No excuse IMO.

[Billsthoughts]

you live in a very black and white world. there might be a bit more at play for people than just a simple matter of being too lazy to update the register.

[eamo1]

It's extremely frustrating that there is no proper alternative to the current government.FG's policies are too similar to FF.
Is there truth to the suggestion that the Gardai purposely used over the top force last week during the student protest to show the ordinary public what might happen to them if they were to march??

[BonnieShels]

Was at a conference last month where Noel Whelan was one of the speakers. I dn't always agree with him, but he told an anecdote that has a sad ring of truth to it: a foreign journalist, asking why the Irish accepted spending cuts, bank bail outs etc etc when the Greeks were up in arms over similar policies, was told: in Ireland all our riots are on the radio.

Precisely what Fionan Sheehan and Pat Kenny said this morning.

[OneRedArmy]

you live in a very black and white world. there might be a bit more at play for people than just a simple matter of being too lazy to update the register.....like wanting to keep the old parish pump flowing? Casting your vote elsewhere to your primary residence (as defined within the law) is an affront to democracy.
Period.

Also, anyone watch Aung Sun Suu Kyi's interview with John Simpson? Burma gets her and we get Jackie Healy Rae....

[Billsthoughts]

....like wanting to keep the old parish pump flowing? Casting your vote elsewhere to your primary residence (as defined within the law) is an affront to democracy.
Period.

A lot of people might be in the capital city with no intention of settling there for life. Voting at home is just another tie to where they are from. nothing to do with parish pump. speak to people rather than lecture them and you might gain a better insight.

[Fr Damo]

In relation to ORA question... we are not fit to Govern ourselves,

How can a cabinate make decesions to run a 1st world country when the prime minister, his assistant and the bean counter are so easily accessed by the electorate?

How many on here are actually two phone calls away from the Biffo, Coughlan or Lenihan? In the good times this sort of intimacy was seen as Ireland greatest atribute, (Ahern walking up to Croker with yobbs from the Hill) it's what's fcuked us

So yes, Agreed here.

[OneRedArmy]

A lot of people might be in the capital city with no intention of settling there for life. Voting at home is just another tie to where they are from. nothing to do with parish pump. speak to people rather than lecture them and you might gain a better insight.
Why do I need to speak to anyone? You should vote where you are living (as defined by law) at any given election.

That's democracy.

Going back down the country to vote for Jonny So and So isn't.

I respect your opinion differs, but mine doesn't and probably more relevant, nor does the law (if it was ever enforced).

[shantykelly]

ORA, its never as simplistic as that. i lived away from home (fair enough in belfast) for 4 years, and whenever there was an election, i travelled home to derry to vote. the main reason was that whatever happened there affected me more than the goings on in a neighbourhood where i was little more than a transient resident. fair enough, if you move away permanently, then change the register, but there's nothing wrong or ignorant or lazy with taking more of an interest in where you are from than where you are temporarily resident.

[Macy]

I always felt where you live all week has more impact than where you are weekends and holidays. I think it does feed into the whole parish pump thing, and voting based on what a candidate has done for "the family" rather than based on own thoughts and national interests.

Each to their own though, but I thought technically it was supposed to be the main place of residence, rather than where you call home?

[hedderman]

In relation to ORA question... we are not fit to Govern ourselves,

How can a cabinate make decesions to run a 1st world country when the prime minister, his assistant and the bean counter are so easily accessed by the electorate?

How many on here are actually two phone calls away from the Biffo, Coughlan or Lenihan? In the good times this sort of intimacy was seen as Ireland greatest atribute, (Ahern walking up to Croker with yobbs from the Hill) it's what's fcuked us

So yes, Agreed here.

Very few cos we are League of Ireland fans. Dermo's our man.

[mypost]

You should vote where you are living (as defined by law) at any given election.

That's democracy.

Going back down the country to vote for Jonny So and So isn't.

I respect your opinion differs, but mine doesn't and probably more relevant, nor does the law (if it was ever enforced).

You have to live in your local constituency for a number of years before you can vote there. Until then, if you want to vote, you have to travel back to whatever one you're a native of, if you want to vote in elections and referendums in this country.

[Fr Damo]

Very few cos we are League of Ireland fans. Dermo's our man.

OK then, how many have had audiences with Mr Delaney and quized him about a 50k for the local football pitch? Pre Aviva he would have probably given in, in order to maintain the image of his strong grass roots supporter etc etc. It's how we do business in this country, or generally did do business here.

BBC are quoting a Euro souce now confirming the talks have taken place or are underway re the bailout.

[OneRedArmy]

You have to live in your local constituency for a number of years before you can vote there. Until then, if you want to vote, you have to travel back to whatever one you're a native of, if you want to vote in elections and referendums in this country.Really?

The RFA3 form and the whole annual voters register update state the opposite.

[dahamsta]

Christ, they'll be citing that in a few weeks. That is absolutely not the case. The only issue with updating the register is that it's only updated once a year, which means that if an election is called before the update, your polling card will go to your old address. Your polling card is not required to vote though, your passport or driving licence will suffice.

mypost, where do you get this crap? Do you just make it up?

[osarusan]

You have to live in your local constituency for a number of years before you can vote there. Until then, if you want to vote, you have to travel back to whatever one you're a native of, if you want to vote in elections and referendums in this country.

I moved back to Ireland and was registered to vote after a 5-minute process, and voted in local elections soon afterwards.

[mypost]

mypost, where do you get this crap? Do you just make it up?

From what I was told, whenever the issue was brought up.

In any case, I don't think it's quite the same scale as ex-pats voting in their country of origin's elections. (e.g. USA) That's taking the mick, imo.

[osarusan]

You must be registered at one address only and you must live at that address on 1 September before the register comes into force. If you live away from the address at which you are registered, you will need to contact the registration authority and give them your new address.

If you leave your address but you plan to return there within 18 months, you can continue to be registered there, as long you do not register at any other address.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/right_to_vote.html

[dahamsta]

From what I was told, whenever the issue was brought up.

In any case, I don't think it's quite the same scale as ex-pats voting in their country of origin's elections. (e.g. USA) That's taking the mick, imo.

In any case, you're full of crap and you can't even hide your incompetence very well. Do us all a favour and go post about current affairs here (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=7) will ya? It's about your level.

I'm not kidding. Go away.

[shantykelly]

For the original post - to me, the main reason I think there hasn't been any form of mass protest or social revolution is because Irish people are, to a large extent, socially conservative, a national trait that has been evident for years in spite of the number of insurrections and rebellions. Whether this is a by product of the catholic church's stranglehold on society for so long, or just the traditional rural background and backwardness of boggers (bear in mind, even city folk in Ireland aren't too removed from the land), or just general apathy and opposition to change, or maybe a combination with other factors. Either way, I don't see any storming of the Dail any time soon, more's the pity.

[peadar1987]

For the original post - to me, the main reason I think there hasn't been any form of mass protest or social revolution is because Irish people are, to a large extent, socially conservative, a national trait that has been evident for years in spite of the number of insurrections and rebellions. Whether this is a by product of the catholic church's stranglehold on society for so long, or just the traditional rural background and backwardness of boggers (bear in mind, even city folk in Ireland aren't too removed from the land), or just general apathy and opposition to change, or maybe a combination with other factors. Either way, I don't see any storming of the Dail any time soon, more's the pity.


Pity. There's a couple of heads would look really good on pikes outside Leinster House.

[shantykelly]

agreed. this conservatism appears to be, historically speaking, a relatively recent phenomenon. ultimately i think the influence of rome as the head of our religion (solely for political reasons) was bad for the country, and we're only now coming out its stranglehold. irish society, to steal a phrase, is at a crossroads. we can continue down the path of apathy and selfishness that seems to have become our main national traits, or we can try and rebuild what used to be good in this place. unfortunately, i can't see any meaningful positive changes happening any time soon.

[bennocelt]

Anyone see the young fella on the Frontline, in the audience, the other day. Brilliant. Saying our electorate really needs to cop on and "stop electing buffons and gombeen men", and that we should stop giving the finance ministry to people who have no idea about finance, "like Bertie and his fake degree from the London school of Economics". Pity the fella was likely to emigrate next year to Australia, but thats what FF wants (always do). The bright and clever to leave our shores and the dregs left behind to keep voting them in.

The irish people are also to blame for the mess we are in. I mean jesus look at the creeps in the dail - what kind of people would vote for J H Rae, Cowen, Dick Roche, Harney,etc

[Billsthoughts]

I always felt where you live all week has more impact than where you are weekends and holidays. I think it does feed into the whole parish pump thing, and voting based on what a candidate has done for "the family" rather than based on own thoughts and national interests.

Each to their own though, but I thought technically it was supposed to be the main place of residence, rather than where you call home?

I disagree with you there. I currently live in kilmainham and I dont have any interaction with the area other than to pass through it coming and going from work. My family ,freinds and roots are all where I am from. To put it another way if a fire was to burn down the whole of kilmainham in the morning I would up sticks and move somewhere else. If a fire was to burn the whole of where I am from down I would be straight down there to see what I could do.

I wasnt actually thinking of myself when I made the point because its a 10 minute car journey for me to go and vote. The point was raised why do we keep voting fianna fail in. I would say it is because most young people leave rural ireland to work in city centres and because its usually a struggle for them to get home and vote they dont. In my opinion this is why a lot of these areas always vote fianna fail because a good portion of the young vote with more "liberal" views arent voting.

[OneRedArmy]

I disagree with you there. I currently live in kilmainham and I dont have any interaction with the area other than to pass through it coming and going from work. My family ,freinds and roots are all where I am from. To put it another way if a fire was to burn down the whole of kilmainham in the morning I would up sticks and move somewhere else. If a fire was to burn the whole of where I am from down I would be straight down there to see what I could do.

I wasnt actually thinking of myself when I made the point because its a 10 minute car journey for me to go and vote. The point was raised why do we keep voting fianna fail in. I would say it is because most young people leave rural ireland to work in city centres and because its usually a struggle for them to get home and vote they dont. In my opinion this is why a lot of these areas always vote fianna fail because a good portion of the young vote with more "liberal" views arent voting.how does voting in your parents constituency impact you more when you don't live there?

Genuine question. I'm baffled by your post tbh.

[Billsthoughts]

Given that I never made that statement am baffled as to why I would need ot explain it. Genuinely so.

[OneRedArmy]

Given that I never made that statement am baffled as to why I would need ot explain it. Genuinely so.Fair enough, I'll rephrase.

You want to exercise your vote somewhere you don't live and where you cannot currently directly benefit from the influence of your vote.

To me that's irrational.

[peadar1987]

Fair enough, I'll rephrase.

You want to exercise your vote somewhere you don't live and where you cannot currently directly benefit from the influence of your vote.

To me that's irrational.

If you're studying in Dublin, and have every intention of returning to Cork, Galway, Sligo or wherever after you finish your studies, I see no problem with it. I met a fella in Scotland who was planning on returning to Limerick purely to vote for Willie O'Dea though. That's a bit off, when he doesn't even live in the country!

[Mr A]

I don't care if Willie O Dea lives upstairs, saved your life previously and now gives you a daily back-rub and box of chocolates- you still shouldn't vote for the lying ****.

[bennocelt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY4ure_GSHw

Does your friend smoke weed?