Adams to run in Louth

[BonnieShels]

Just on the news there that he's to replace Arthur Morgan.

rte.ie/news/2010/1114/adamsg.html

[hedderman]

OMG. Well it looks like the "rights based society" will finally be created!

[awec]

Irony:

To resign as an MP (which he has to do) he has to take up a position of profit within the UK (to make him ineligible as an MP).

This means he either becomes:

Gerry Adams, Crown Steward and Bailiff of the three Chiltern Hundreds of Stoke, Desborough and Burnham

or

Gerry Adams, Steward of the Manor of Northstead

Brilliant! :D

[BonnieShels]

Completely forgot about that. Heh heh.

Not a hundred per cent on the ins and outs but does any one know why he can't be an mp and a td?

Gerry Adams, Ireland's only all-island parliamentarian.

[awec]

Completely forgot about that. Heh heh.

Not a hundred per cent on the ins and outs but does any one know why he can't be an mp and a td?

Gerry Adams, Ireland's only all-island parliamentarian.

Theres nothing stopping him from the UK side of things, it's an irish rule that you can't be a TD if you're a British MP I think.

[ArdeeBhoy]

On the resigning thing, would the same rules apply given he's never attended the Parliament in London? Even if he to do it, I'm sure GA would hardly be bothered recognising such archaic nonsense.

In other news, he's been replaced in the North's Assembly by former hunger-striker, Pat Sheehan.

[Kingdom]

To me this seems to be a smart move by SF. Surely it's going to be a guarenteed seat for them now? I would have classified Louth as being as Republican and Pro-Sinn Fein more than any other large constituency, and given his high profile would be sure that he'll drag more of their traditional voters out in places like Dundalk and North Co Louth?

Not sure what is to be gained overall though? I mean they're unlikely to be in a position of power, unless FF perform better than expected, or perhaps if there's a train of thought that if Adams runs for the Dail, then that might help the SF vote nationwide?

[awec]

On the resigning thing, would the same rules apply given he's never attended the Parliament in London? Even if he to do it, I'm sure GA would hardly be bothered recognising such archaic nonsense.

In other news, he's been replaced in the North's Assembly by former hunger-striker, Pat Sheehan.

He's an MP whether he bothers his arse attending or not. The same rules apply.


To me this seems to be a smart move by SF. Surely it's going to be a guarenteed seat for them now? I would have classified Louth as being as Republican and Pro-Sinn Fein more than any other large constituency, and given his high profile would be sure that he'll drag more of their traditional voters out in places like Dundalk and North Co Louth?

Not sure what is to be gained overall though? I mean they're unlikely to be in a position of power, unless FF perform better than expected, or perhaps if there's a train of thought that if Adams runs for the Dail, then that might help the SF vote nationwide?

It'll be VERY embarassing for Adams and SF if he doesn't win.

Have the irish voters not rejected parties like Sinn Fein before when they've run?

[Eminence Grise]

Two thoughts on Adams’ decision:

Firstly, there is a realignment under way in SF, as the young turks in the south see the grizzled, old northerners as increasingly disconnected with voters in the republic, and a threat to their future government ambitions. Adams’ performance in the last smaller party leaders’ debate on RTE showed the northern leadership to be totally out of touch with the republic. His decision could be an effort to nip a leadership heave by a younger, articulate, not-connected-to-the-Troubles TD or senator.

Or, secondly, it could be a way of gauging likely personal and SF support for a tilt at the presidency. What could be more attractive for a Shinner than to take the salute of the Defence Forces passing by the reviewing stand outside the GPO at Easter, 2016?

[dantheman]

On the resigning thing, would the same rules apply given he's never attended the Parliament in London? Even if he to do it, I'm sure GA would hardly be bothered recognising such archaic nonsense.

In other news, he's been replaced in the North's Assembly by former hunger-striker, Pat Sheehan.

Would not vote for his party, but all he should do is write a letter to the parliament telling them of his desire to resign as a MP. Maybe write a few letters to the newspapers as well. The masonic resignation rules of the House of Commons should be of no concern...

[awec]

Would not vote for his party, but all he should do is write a letter to the parliament telling them of his desire to resign as a MP. Maybe write a few letters to the newspapers as well. The masonic resignation rules of the House of Commons should be of no concern...

And Parliament will tell him he has to take one of those titles.

Iris Robinson had to do it when she recently retired. As has every other MP who has retired, you really think they'd make an exception for Gerry Adams? :D

[ArdeeBhoy]

Why not, he never took up his seat....

[awec]

And? He's an elected member of parliament. Whether he takes his seat is irrelevant! :D

[ArdeeBhoy]

But they would have to make an exception if he's not there....
;)

[awec]

They really wouldn't!

[backstothewall]

I can't see how they can force him to take this title. He'll tell them to do one, and they will be left to decide whether or not to call a by-election. There isn't a possibility of anything but an abstentionist SF mp being elected in the by-election, so its not like anyone will notice the difference whether they want to call a by election or not

[osarusan]

They wont have to force him to do anything. Under Irish law he won't be allowed to become a TD unless he stops being an MP, so he's the one who has to make the moves in this case. And as an MP cannot simply resign, he will have to go down the route of taking an office of profit under the crown. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_from_the_British_House_of_Commons).

[BonnieShels]

Would this not be a good thing for him to try just to show up anachronisms of the British system. I still think that it wont be conventional.

[ArdeeBhoy]

What if he just tells Westminster to GTF, sends a letter saying "I'm resigning and that's it." ?

What are they going to do, arrest him??

[osarusan]

What if he just tells Westminster to GTF, sends a letter saying "I'm resigning and that's it." ?

What are they going to do, arrest him??

The letter will be worthless as an MP cannot resign, so they're not going to do a thing. But he won't be allowed to become a TD.

@Bonnieshels - I suppose he could try and highlight the issue, but changing that kind of thing would take years I'd say.

[Eminence Grise]

If he takes the Crown Steward and Bailiff of the Chiltern Hundreds sinecure, he'll replace Iris Robinson. Quirky...

[Dunny]

http://www.dundalkdemocrat.ie/videos/Public-Reaction-to-Gerry-Adams39.6629650.jp

[BonnieShels]

Very positive really. If it ruins Dermot Ahern it will be worth it. Don't forget Mairéad McGuinness will probably run for FG as well.

[BonnieShels]

Very interesting from Slugger O'Toole here notwithstanding that Adams' has said that he will resign as an MLA and an MP.

http://sluggerotoole.com/2010/11/14/how-can-gerry-adams-be-an-mp-and-a-td-at-the-same-time/

Also here's the transcript from the debate in the HoCommons re the change to the act.
Glancing through it there seems to be an issue with there definition of Citizens of this State as aliens in Britain. as far as I am aware we never have been considered aliens in the UK since 1949. So there were weird statements in the debate as far as I can see.
Anyway...

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/2000/jan/25/amendment-of-section-11e-of-the

Can't find anything that forbids a TD from being an MP. Can anyone else?

[Eminence Grise]

There's nothing in the Constitution that refers to it (or the Free State constitution, either). I had a quick look at some of the Electoral Acts, but there are too many between amendments and SIs to go through properly. The Local Government(No. 2) Act 2003 ended the dual mandate, but it only refers to local authorities and the Oireachtas. Somewhere, though, there must be something somewhere prohibiting TDs holding other offices. It couldn't just be custom and practice....

Could the Hansard debate have come about as a result of the Good Friday Agreement? Just wondering - I only skimmed through it.

Watching The Panel as I type... Niall Delamere has just observed that it's coincidental that Louth is called the Wee County - because that's what you're likely to do if you answer a knock on your door and find Gerry Adams standing there...

[BonnieShels]

There's nothing in the Constitution that refers to it (or the Free State constitution, either). I had a quick look at some of the Electoral Acts, but there are too many between amendments and SIs to go through properly. The Local Government(No. 2) Act 2003 ended the dual mandate, but it only refers to local authorities and the Oireachtas. Somewhere, though, there must be something somewhere prohibiting TDs holding other offices. It couldn't just be custom and practice....

Could the Hansard debate have come about as a result of the Good Friday Agreement? Just wondering - I only skimmed through it.

Watching The Panel as I type... Niall Delamere has just observed that it's coincidental that Louth is called the Wee County - because that's what you're likely to do if you answer a knock on your door and find Gerry Adams standing there...

Why would you watch that pap? 17 minutes til the best show on tv. Vincent Browne that is.

I know that there's nothing in the Constitution as I don't think that the spirit of the time where we were trying to woo Unionists would have allowed it.
I've never heard of it and when the dual mandate was ended this was never a consideration. I'd rather he was both an MP and a TD, whilst I don't agree with next to anything that SF ever have done or do I think that Gerry in Louth rather that D Ahern is more palatable. Plus I love political quirks such as this.

The Hansard debate was as a result of the GFA. Seems that we never got involved in any reciprocal arrangement which is stunning. Though if you bear in mind as well that if there was nothing barring an MP/MLA/MSP sitting in the Dáil as a TD (if elected) before this debate then I don't see why the arch-Socialist Republican Taoiseach we had at the time would have raised the ire of the nation by seemingly allowing Perfidious Albion a presence in our Chamber.
So we could well have a situation in place whereby we could well allow sitting MPs to sit in the Dáil if elected.

[backstothewall]

There's no way that would stand up to 21st century employment law.

Is a British MP allowed to run for the Dail, but just not allowed to take their seat if they win?

There is no way it would get as far as West Belfast and Louth going without representation. I'd say because he didn't take his seat they will find a way brush this one under the carpet

[Mr A]

Is he going to turn up for the Dail? Maybe it's an academic argument :)

[BonnieShels]

There's no way that would stand up to 21st century employment law.

Is a British MP allowed to run for the Dail, but just not allowed to take their seat if they win?

There is no way it would get as far as West Belfast and Louth going without representation. I'd say because he didn't take his seat they will find a way brush this one under the carpet


I don't get what you're saying here? Who said he wouldn't take his seat?
What is being asked here is it possible for an MP to stand for election to the Dáil?

[osarusan]

I've searched high and low for it, and I can't find it either.

I was certain it was the case that a person couldn't be an MP and TD at the same time, but I have to say I'm much less certain now. That link to sluggerotoole hints at it being mentioned on the Shinners website but I couldn't find it.

Here's a thread from politics.ie where the question is asked and kind of answered (amongst other posts).

http://www.politics.ie/sinn-fein/142719-problems-gerry-adams-resignation-mp.html

[BonnieShels]

Read the lot of that and confirms our suspicions. So Gerry needn't resign from Westminster.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Watching The Panel as I type... Niall Delamere has just observed that it's coincidental that Louth is called the Wee County - because that's what you're likely to do if you answer a knock on your door and find Gerry Adams standing there...

Hmm, potential hypocrisy alert?
Sure there's a few other parts of the island which have a somewhat more, er, unfavourable image.....

[Eminence Grise]

Why would you watch that pap? 17 minutes til the best show on tv. Vincent Browne that is.

Why would anybody care what I watch? As it happens, it was just background noise since I hadn't bothered turning off the TV after Prime Time, and while I was racking my brain trying to answer your previous post. Which I couldn't, but I'm glad I made an effort all the same.

[Eminence Grise]

Hmm, potential hypocrisy alert?
Sure there's a few other parts of the island which have a somewhat more, er, unfavourable image.....

Huh???

I think he meant that Joe Voter might perform an involuntary, somewhat childish act requiring a change of lower garments when confronted by Gerry on his own doorstep. Nothing to do with the county, other than using its nickname as the smallest county for a pun.

My own response to Gerry ringing my bell might be more, ah, solid and substantial...

[BonnieShels]

Why would anybody care what I watch? As it happens, it was just background noise since I hadn't bothered turning off the TV after Prime Time, and while I was racking my brain trying to answer your previous post. Which I couldn't, but I'm glad I made an effort all the same.

Ah dude, I was just joking with ya. Sorry for the offence. Tbh I actually assumed what you said just there was what you actually did. It's happened often enough to me too.

[Eminence Grise]

Ah dude, I was just joking with ya. Sorry for the offence.

Oh, God! No offence was taken at all!* I obviously need to work on my "lighthearted response" side a bit better!!

(*Not even in the Barstool Facepalm thread where you called Roscommon an "imaginary hole." As a proud, displaced Rossie I can confirm that the latter part is certainly up for discussion, though regarding the former, it does, in fact, exist.)

[ArdeeBhoy]

I think he meant that Joe Voter might perform an involuntary, somewhat childish act requiring a change of lower garments when confronted by Gerry on his own doorstep. Nothing to do with the county, other than using its nickname as the smallest county for a pun.

My own response to Gerry ringing my bell might be more, ah, solid and substantial...

Naw, mate. it's a sh*t pun, all round.

Our acts of liquid relief are generally directed towards that shower who cheated earlier this year in the Leinster Final.
And would happily direct solids in a similar direction....

Delamere should reflect on the high no.of gombeen men elsewhere in Irish politics, before he casts dispersions in this direction.

[BonnieShels]

Oh, God! No offence was taken at all!* I obviously need to work on my "lighthearted response" side a bit better!!

(*Not even in the Barstool Facepalm thread where you called Roscommon an "imaginary hole." As a proud, displaced Rossie I can confirm that the latter part is certainly up for discussion, though regarding the former, it does, in fact, exist.)

Displaced? Love it. I forgot about the Boyle junta.