Brian Barry Murphy

[pete]

Seems hes out of contract at Sheffield Wednesday.

Their official sites says he amoung 14 with only 3 specualted to be offered new contracts.

Be interesting to see where he ends up...

[shedite]

Now he's a player I'd love to see back at city. How old is he now? Close to 28?

[tiktok]

Close to 28?

Would have thought he was a couple of years younger than that to be honest, 25/26?

[Echo Boy]

Be interesting to see where he ends up...[/QUOTE]


It certainly wont be City though! He is to good for us as he is playing in the english second division which is far superior to the El.

[pete]

Think he is 25 years old.

[A face]

Be interesting to see where he ends up...


It certainly wont be City though! He is to good for us as he is playing in the english second division which is far superior to the El.[/QUOTE]


I am so glad you are not making on decisions on our behalf !! :eek: :confused:

[Echo Boy]

It certainly wont be City though! He is to good for us as he is playing in the english second division which is far superior to the El.


I am so glad you are not making on decisions on our behalf !! :eek: :confused:[/QUOTE]

Imo the EL is comparable to the English Conference at best and only proproganda by the Irish papers lead us to believe it is better than that when in fact it is not. BBM would be better off with Carlisle next year in the conference than any club in the EL........... and he would be paid better as well. ( ps No disrespect to City)

[Echo Boy]

So your opinion is more valid than the 'Irish papers' (incidentally I don't know what papers you read, as I find coverage of club football here disappointing). I presume it is 'propaganda' because you disagree with them, whereas Sky Sports provide far more incisive analysis of football. You have no empirical or statistical basis for your claim. You have no idea how Carlisle would fare in the club game here, nor is it possible to make comparisons (let's face it, it's not as if we can look at Carlisle's progress in Europe competitions, say, compared to Bohemians...). You think BBM would be better with Carlisle, if pushed I would say my opinion is that Carlisle wouldn't cut it in the First Division here and he'd be better off with Cobh Ramblers.

Carlisle get average crowds of 8000 where the ticket price are around £12 sterling or about €20 , Their stadium is better than any in the EL and lets face it they have better players. Foran etc

[A face]

Carlisle get average crowds of 8000 where the ticket price are around £12 sterling or about €20 , Their stadium is better than any in the EL and lets face it they have better players. Foran etc


Shootin' from the hip me thinks ..... I'd actually advocate that eL club has times better than .... say Carlisle as eL clubs dont have those resources yet still perform better (if you are going to compare that is) ... like Conor said .... it is a fairly hard task (or easy in your case :confused: ) to come up with a comparison.

Man if that is your opinion then you are entitled to it. BBM,. better off in the third division ... City V Malmo in a few weeks is far more attractive fixture than anything Carlisle would have to offer, in my opinion anyway.

Actually haven't had many who share your opinion, on here recently. Strange !! but man ... if you're OK with it, then i am :) ... you are alright fella ... no matter what they say about ya !!

[Gary]

Why is it people think that BBM even wants to come home to Cork?

Its been said time and time again that he aint coming back, not anytime soon anyways. He is well settled in England, and Footbalkl is only a sideline for him, as he is well up in the greyhound circles over there, training dogs i think (or something).

He was a handy player for us, a long time ago. The league has moved way forward since then.

[jofyisgod]

The league has moved way forward since then.

Obviously Not, according to our resident Einstein, Echo Boy.

[foureyes]

People don't seem to realise that the Conference is quite a high standard of football. Look at the teams that do manage to get promoted - they tend to do well to very well in English division 3. Its just that it has only been in the last couple of seasons that more than one team can actually escape, the advent of playoffs in the conference has upped the standard.

I would put City at mid table div 3 standard, possibly in with a shout for the playoffs. We would have no chance in division 1 or 2 though. Shels might survive in division 2 because they are consistent, but then only just. Of course all this is just opinion.

The major difference is that players of lower division english clubs tend to be on a par with each other because its that much easier to move around clubs (obviously there are exceptions), whereas in the EL a squad might have a good few mediocre players(conference or lower standard) but a couple of really good players (div 1 standard). I have little doubt that (a fit) John O'Flynn, Kevin Doyle and Jason Byrne for example could do well in division 1 and with experience, particularly in the case of our boys because theyre that bit younger, potential premiership players.

[mickrev]

Conference teams do well when they are promoted because the gap in quality isn't that great and the top conference teams are used to winning games before they go to Div. Three. Its very hard to predict how well a team will do in the lower leagues cos really small things matter when everybody plays at such an ordinary standard. One really good player can make a good team for example.

Also I reckon the top EL teams could survive in Division 2 no problem. Im sure a couple of years back an EL representative team played a DIV 3 representitive team and won. I know it means nothing and not even sure if I'm making it up or not.

[Echo Boy]

Crowds are a good indicator of the size of a club?

Hmmmmm, Monaco? Only 3 or 4,000 a game. How are they doing this year? Presume you would have them down as a good Ryman's League outfit...


They dont have a rich prince pouring in the money to the club!

[liamon]

They dont have a rich prince pouring in the money to the club!
It doesn't have to be a prince, just ask Shels.

[razor]

Only 3 or 4,000 a game. How are they doing this year? Presume you would have them down as a good Ryman's League outfit...
Same as ourselves.
Does that mean we could get to the Champions League Final?
Its all about opinions in the end and in the case of comparing different leagues its really a waste of time and opinion.
You could go on about it til the cows come home and still end up none the wiser.


The Prince of Darkness....
Be careful, you know his solicitors are watching.

[drinkfeckarse]

All I'm asking for is one good reason why the league here is only comparable to the lower reaches of the English pro game. Crowds, money etc. are not yardsticks.


When was the last time you heard of a player from the EL going to a Premiership team or a decent 1st division team and setting the place alight? Any transfers between English and Irish teams tend to be between lower division clubs and the EL because the standard of player is very alike. Don't know why people can't see that. It's not a slur on the EL, just the way it is, we'd like to think we're something special but at the end of the day we're just average.

[GavinZac]

roy keane, a typical eL player :rolleyes:

he only signed for cobh to get on the irish youths thing.

[Ozymandias]

roy keane, a typical eL player :rolleyes:

he only signed for cobh to get on the irish youths thing.


In order to get on the FAS training scheme you had to be affiliated to a LOI club.....City took Len Downey....Keane wanted to sign for city but couldn't as it would not have got him a place on the scheme...thats why he went to Cobh

In hindsight it was the best thing he ever done for his career

[vito_golightly]

Re Monaco and their 'loaded' Prince pouring money into them - they nearly hit the wall at the start of this season.

Re BBM, doubt his old man will be actively encouraging a move home to City - seen him standing in the shed this season and I doubt if he'll be chuffed with the possibility of our fans turning on his son.

[pete]

When have Carisle ever got 8k average attendances. Maybe 8l top for the season but never average.

Poiuntless debate anyway.

In recent years ythe best young eL (u-21) players have competed as well if not better than their equivalent irish abroad which about one of the few direct comparison that can be made.

[A face]

But do you and Echo Boy believe that simply repeating it makes your opinion a fact? It is no more valid than my opinion that clubs like Carlisle would not survive top flight football here...though they MAY give Dublin City a run for their money.

All I'm asking for is one good reason why the league here is only comparable to the lower reaches of the English pro game. Crowds, money etc. are not yardsticks. Leeds are a very big club, yet I can't remember the last Irish team that had to sell goldfish to survive... If crowds are relevant, why are Rotherham in a higher division to Sheffield Wednesday?

How about another approach. Who was the last team from the English Conference to defeat Kaiserslautern in Germany in a competitive European match? Okay, a different one. What was the last team from the English Third Division to draw with Bayern Munich in a competitive European match? Anyone, anyone...


foureyes and Echo Boy .... can we get an answer, i just want to hear what you have to say is all !!

[drinkfeckarse]

How about a player who was anonymous in Ireland and pretty much outstanding in England.

Roy Keane anyone?


I knew I'd get someone mentioning him :rolleyes: One example in the last how long!!! The exception rather than the rule but if that's enough for you to think the EL is on a par with the 1st division etc then who am I to point out the facts to you!
Like I said before, it's not a slur on the EL, it's just the simple truth and as many others have said, this is just my opinion and that everybody can have one.

It's just that deep down you know that my opinion is backed up with statistics and is ultimately right!! ;)

[liamon]

To be honest, I don't see anyone on here claiming we're a match for Monaco, or the Eng. Premier League teams. But we're certainly not conference standard.

[drinkfeckarse]

What stats?

For every Irish player you think has done poorly in England, there's at least one English player who dragged down the standard here...


My point was about naming an Irish EL player that has done well at a high level in England other than the obvious Roy. I can't think of any and I never mentioned anything about Irish players doing "poorly". Plenty have done well and well for themselves financially.....in the lower divisions. My "stats" are the blaringly obvious facts that we can't think of one. And I agree with you on your last point...to many EL teams have gone down the road of bring
ing over average/past it players from across the channel. I wouldn't have said they dragged the level down though, just proved to be a waste of money and over-rated. The standard was already average.

[razor]

Okay, Paul McGrath... This is too easy...

Its too easy to name out a few exceptions that actually did make it.
How many City players went over and came back
Billy, George, JOF, Stephen O'Flynn, etc etc
The list is endless.
Thats even easier.

[razor]

Big Fish Small pond here in Cork Versus Small fish big pond over there.

I mean if Peterborough and Port Vale had really wanted them then they would have kept them, of that you can be sure.

[pete]

Its too easy to name out a few exceptions that actually did make it.
How many City players went over and came back
Billy, George, JOF, Stephen O'Flynn, etc etc
The list is endless.
Thats even easier.

Of those players only Billy Woods was City player pre English football so rest don't count for this debate.

Of hand list of player who left city for the bright lights of English football
Brian Carey - Man U for a while, solid nationwide pro.
Brian Barry Murphy - 2nd division 1st teamer
Joe Gamble - Conference 1st teamer.
Damian Delaney - Hulls (3rd division) player of the year in promotion season
Billy Woods - Didn't make it
Nugent?
Fergus O'Donoghue - Didn't make it.

[razor]

Kevin Nugent was an English player who came over here to play.
Found some Irishness and played U21 for us a few times.
He has done quite well in the lower leagues over the years.

With regard to Fry, great footballing man with a keen eye for a good footballer but it boiled down to dispensible or indispensible.
If he really wanted to keep him he'd have kept him.
He throws in a few nice words upon the boys departure to keep his chin up after failing to be kept on. He's done it a thousand times.

Not that i'm complaining of course, all to our benefit.
And of course pete is right as they didn't come from City they can't really be counted here.

[drinkfeckarse]

Big Fish Small pond here in Cork Versus Small fish big pond over there.

I mean if Peterborough and Port Vale had really wanted them then they would have kept them, of that you can be sure.


Exactly, pretty lame excuse...oh we wanted to keep you but money's tight. Then get rid of some of the dead wood.Simple answer really.

Listen Conor if you want to mention a couple of exceptions from 10-15 years ago then fine, you were the one wondering why the EL was being compared to the lower divisions in England just because basically City had managed a draw with Munich. Every dog has it's day i.e Sunderland v Leeds, Inverness v Celtic. You don't mean to tell me that you'd expect City to get a result against them all the time! One result isn't grounds for your argument. The EL has some good players but they look good because they're in an average league which in my opinion is on a par with English Division 2 (lower half) and 3. Put them in a higher level than that and they will historically fail to make the grade unless they're an exceptional talent.

Again, no offence against the EL, just my opinion.

[Echo Boy]

Exactly, pretty lame excuse...oh we wanted to keep you but money's tight. Then get rid of some of the dead wood.Simple answer really.

Listen Conor if you want to mention a couple of exceptions from 10-15 years ago then fine, you were the one wondering why the EL was being compared to the lower divisions in England just because basically City had managed a draw with Munich. Every dog has it's day i.e Sunderland v Leeds, Inverness v Celtic. You don't mean to tell me that you'd expect City to get a result against them all the time! One result isn't grounds for your argument. The EL has some good players but they look good because they're in an average league which in my opinion is on a par with English Division 2 (lower half) and 3. Put them in a higher level than that and they will historically fail to make the grade unless they're an exceptional talent.

Again, no offence against the EL, just my opinion.


I go even further and say that the conference is a more realistic comparsion to the El. :D

[liamon]

I go even further and say that the conference is a more realistic comparsion to the El. :D
Why do you even bother to come on here? All you do is wind people up.

[Echo Boy]

Why do you even bother to come on here? All you do is wind people up.

For the Laugh!!!!

[razor]

It is only opinion and not a fact based analysis at all.

Isn't that what these forums are all about ?

Facts (in my opinion) continue to get in the way of any decent discussion.

[drinkfeckarse]

Conor let me keep this simple because you're not grasping what I'm saying. The reason I compared the EL to the lower reaches if the English leagues is because other than the very odd exception, I can't think of any player that has went from the EL to a top league and done well espeically in the last 10 years. A fair amount have gone to the lower leagues and done well which I would say proves my argument that the EL is on a par with the lower leagues because plenty of players have gone to and between the leagues but very few have gone higher.

[drinkfeckarse]

They say the old ones are the best drinkfeckarse - they're not really... :rolleyes:

:confused: :confused:

Anyway 'let me keep this simple because you're not grasping what I am saying', why is it a given that a good player must play in England?


I was only comparing the EL to the lower English divisions. If you read my post carefully you would have noticed that I said "a top league"


so perhaps the failure (apart from Roy Keane, Paul McGrath, Ronnie Whelan) of players to go in recent times has got more to do with the inability of clubs to pay them, amongst othere reasons.


As Razor and myself have pointed out previously, if the club thought the player was good enough,they would find the money and get rid of some other ****e.

PS. Michael Brown was on £6k at Sheffield Utd before he left for Spurs. Neil Warnock blabbed that to the press during his contract negotiations and also blurted out the fact that they were prepared to break the bank for him and had offered to double his wages to £12k p/w. Funny looking wage cap?

[yiddo]

Its offical Brian Barry Murphy is on of 13 players released today by Sheffield Wednesday.

[drinkfeckarse]

You're on about a different thing altogether. Here we have a club who have got themselves in HUGE financial difficulty receiveing OFFERS for their players (with the exception of Mills who had a massive falling out with Reid). I see your point but these were not players at the end of their contracts that the club let go, they were SOLD for millions. Any club worth their salt would, if they had a player that they valued or wanted, would either tie him up on a contract or sell him before the end of it. Not just casually let him go at the end of it with the old excuse "we'd love to...but".

With regards your question, I didn't realise it was to me, I thought it was an open question. I suppose if I have a think about it I'll get it although I can't think of anyone at the moment. I'm at work anyway and a bit pushed for time at the mo.

Give yourself a round of applause if you know it though. I'm sure the trivia kings will be quaking :D :D

[jofyisgod]

I am living over in London, and believe me, having been to conference games, City are streets ahead. The whole stature of City is better, the shop, merchandise, shirt sales, paper coverage, quality of player, quality of grounds/pitches. The eL as a whole is bigger than Conference/Div2/div2.
Thre are no, i repeat, no under-21/full internationals playing in conference/div3. No way is there nearly 3 in one squad!
Players in the conference barely get £500 a week, whereas Georgie, JOF, and Fenn are easily on the equivalent of 1,200 a week, if not more. Shirt sponsorship is worth more in the eL, which says a lot, as the companies clearly think that they are dealing with better clubs.

More importantly, why is this debate here. We are meant to be supporteres of Cork City and the eL. What differencr does it make to real fans what the standard is? I hope that Echo Boy gets banned ASAP,and i think that you 'drinkfeckarse' are a complete @rsehole.

'let me keep this simple because you're not grasping what I am saying'-you are an @rsehole

[mickrev]

Thre are no, i repeat, no under-21/full internationals playing in conference/div3.

Excellent point. There probably aint that many in Div 2 either.

[patsh]

Actually lads, did any of you see that new series on Sunday night on BBC 2, called Football Diaries?
It looked really good so far.
It started with pre-season for the season just ending.
They featured Chelsea a bit, but most of the program was about Weymouth FC. A Dr. Martens league club, going nowhere, and a local businessman took it over. He brought in Steve Claridge as player manager, has spent a bit of money, taken a huge risk. Lots of the old board of directors have resigned, they were happy with the easy going, stay where they are attitude. Crowds of 400 - 800, he needed to be getting 1400 through the gates to be breaking even.
I've looked at where Weymouth finished this year, and how the season went.
I have to say it looks like it will be well worth having a look at it to see how things progress.
TBH, it sort of reminds me a bit of City and Lennox.

[eoinh]

They dont have a rich prince pouring in the money to the club!


err, shows you dont know much about monacos financial position. during the close season they were denied a professional licence because of their finances. only on appeal did they get it. many of their star players are on loan from other clubs (morientes is from madrid; madrid pay 60% of his wages). at the end of the season no matter what happens they have to sell their best players.

As for England beneath the first few teams in the premiership the standards start to dip very quickly. its the reason their teams outside the top few can very rarely get past a round or two in the uefa cup.

As for the english leagues - because of the collapse of their TV deal players had to be released at the end of their contracts no matter who they were. those in contract had to be retained because they couldnt afford to be paid off.
on the eircom league show we had roddy collins talking about his time at carlisle bemoaning the fact that he couldnt sign certain loi players because he couldnt afford them. that doesnt just apply to carlisle but a lot of english clubs.

anyway its a silly debate because you should be comapring senior leagues with senior leagues. more important is how we compare with the slovenian, belgian, croatian leagues etc.
I doubt though if you are interested in them echo boy, are you?

[razor]

Thre are no, i repeat, no under-21/full internationals playing in conference/div3. No way is there nearly 3 in one squad!
Players in the conference barely get £500 a week, whereas Georgie, JOF, and Fenn are easily on the equivalent of 1,200 a week

Brian Murphy (Swansea) and Stephen Capper (Scarborough) are both in the Irish U21 squad.

And do you actually know what the Cork City players earn in a week, because the figures I have heard bandied about Cork City (where I live) is much less than your 1200 a week.

Some points you make are valid but you go and let yourself down at the end with a personal attack, shame. :(

[drinkfeckarse]

[QUOTE=jofyisgod]i think that you 'drinkfeckarse' are a complete @rsehole.
/QUOTE]

I'm an @rsehole for pointing out the fact that no EL players tend to make it at the highest level!!

I'm sorry, seeing as this is a forum, I thought I was entitled to an opinion just as much as the next guy.

As I've stated numerous times before, it's not a personal attack on the EL (I played for a few years in the EL myself), just pointing out the obvious that it's not a really high standard. Simple really, no need to get shirty. I probably shouldn't have said that line "not grasping" etc, I realise that was a bit sarcastic but you have let yourself down with a comment like that. And another thing, I never mentioned anything about the Conference, that was Echo Boy and he's entitled to his opinion too without everybody freaking out! I laugh actually when I read his posts because I think he just throws a few dodgy comments in here and there to see everybody freaking out and it get's them everytime!

[Ozymandias]

Curtis Fleming made it at the highest level and was captain of palace this year in Div one...he bpalyed premiership for middlesborough ...had a good career in England in the top levels without being spectacular

Tommy Gaynor had a good carreer in the top division with Forest started out at limerick

Miah Dennehy...legend enough said

[drinkfeckarse]

Here we go again, I said "tend to". Exceptions rather than the rule.

[sullanefc]

Judging the EL by the number of players that go across to the premiership and make it does not make sense. Very few premiership clubs buy players from even 2nd and 3rd division clubs. Top clubs are now buying players from the continent (Look at Bolton trying to sign Rivaldo) and bringing players up from their youth systems. The fact that a handful of Eircom league players have made it in England in the last decade (Roy Keane, Paul McGrath, Curtis Fleming etc) is a credit to the EL. The Premiership is the top level of football and anyone who makes it there is an exceptional footballer, and they are hard to find.

To draw a line under the Monaco thing, they don't have to pay the same taxes that the other clubs in France do. They can afford to only get gates of 3000-4000, because what they pay their players probably only works out to be what they would get anywhere else after tax.

Anyways why compare City to a lower league english club? Lets get behind them, win this bloody league, and knock a big team (Liverpool/Newcastle) out of the champions league. That would be nice.

[drinkfeckarse]

Thankfully I don't make a habit of going to Div 3/ Conference games. I would say I've been to maybe 7 or 8 Div 2/3 games in my travels. Seen a lot of SPL games (also poor other than the obvious).

Why? Now before you come back with an answer slaughtering me, bear in mind that I'm on a half day in 5 minutes so I won't be commenting again until tomorrow/Sunday or more probably Monday so until then......