Well done Shams

[WoodquayBoy]

Congrats to our new League champions, and to Derry as well, both fully deserved

[dfx-]

Worst champions...jesus...

Lowest points could mean any number of things..

How's about: Rovers were only able to get 67 points because it was much tougher to get the points than other years or in simple terms, a tougher league to win..

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

The difference is Rovers didnt cheat to win they league like the rest of them









I think....

I'm sure Dundalk fans would differ with that comment

[mypost]

Possibly the worst team to win the league in at least a decade.
Talk about stumbling over the line with terrible football, just pipping Bohs who were equally as brutal.
But to Shams fans that wont matter a bit and if I was in their position it wouldnt matter to me either.

You're right, it wouldn't matter, and you're wrong, we're not the worst team to win it.

2 years ago, it was claimed by a big points gap. Was that the worst league in years?
3 years ago, it was won by a team who like the other champions in the era, bought it with borrowed money? Was that the worst league in years?
9 years ago, Shels blew a 12 point gap, to lose the league on goal difference. Was that the worst league in years?
In 2002, Pats were deducted 15 points in order to let Shels win the league. Was that the worst league in years? Were they the worst team to win the league in years?

I could go on, and it may be something you don't understand, but there is NO greater feeling as a fan than winning your own country's top league. Doesn't matter what the year, or the quality of the opposition, it's a whole year's work to get to where we are now. It's not won over 10 games, or 5 games, or half a season, it's won in this country over 36 games. You test yourself against all kinds of opposition 4 times a year in all types of conditions, and if you're first, it means you were the best in the country over the season. There's no prizes for most beautiful football, or longest unbeaten run, or highest possession stats, you get them for getting to the line in front of everyone else.

Last year, we took 12 points from Sligo, this year we took 10 off them. So despite the prettier football, there is no argument over who is the better side results wise at this time.

Winning the league in turn results in CL football, where 2 rounds won = UEFA Cup group stage at least, and 1 round won = UEFA Cup playoffs at least. It leads to higher crowds at home and away games, and increased revenue which in turn attracts more sponsors and better players, and more success. We're not Cork, or Drogs, or Shels. Our board know what they're doing, and run the club as it should be run. It works.

[Dixie Dean]

Winning the league in turn results in CL football, where 2 rounds won = UEFA Cup group stage at least, and 1 round won = UEFA Cup playoffs at least. It leads to higher crowds at home and away games, and increased revenue which in turn attracts more sponsors and better players, and more success.


You are absolutely correct, thats what happened when Shels, Derry, Cork, Bohs and Drogs won the league
....
....
....
....
....

oh wait....... :-)

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

I don't really see how the argument that because we didn't beat ye this season we didn't deserve to finish ahead of ye this season stands up. The reason we didn't finish ahead of ye this season is that ye took more points off all the teams combined not just in the games we played. There's no extra points gained for games against Shams as opposed to games against UCD. Based on that comment then Fingal deserved to finish ahead of Shams. (ye 'only' took 8 points off us this season by the way)

Everyone going on about Shams being the worst champions ever. Well if that's the case then it doesn't say much for the rest of the teams who couldn't finish ahead of them.

[Jicked]

You are absolutely correct, thats what happened when Shels, Derry, Cork, Bohs and Drogs won the league
....
....
....
....
....

oh wait....... :-)

Did those other teams turn profits in the year they won the league? MON was also on the radio yesterday, didn't exactly sound like a man who wants to start breaking the bank, he clearly states the Rovers business model is to invest in younger players not the established league names, and wants to see money put towards training facilities and investing in schoolboy teams.
http://media.newstalk.ie/podcast/21331/popup

[Dixie Dean]

And retired players - he is a standards setter.

[Jicked]

Christ almighty, the amount of actual football talk on here is almost non-existent with the amount of cringeily unfunny jibes everyone has to try to make all the time. Now we just need SkStu to show up and mention 4%, Reiteoir to mention a plastic bottle and then someone just to say the words Model Club and the cycle will be complete again.

[mypost]

ye 'only' took 8 points off us this season by the way

Mathematics Class:

12 points available, and you get 2 points. 12-2 =

[1st time post]

Mathematics Class:

12 points available, and you get 2 points. 12-2 =

Are you for real??Fair play to Shams on winning the league,i always think the table never lies and no matter what we started we ended up on 63 points which is enough to make us the 3rd best team in the league this season which seems about right to me,the fact that we didnt beat bohs or shams in the league this season is why we werent that little bit closer but looking forward to the Cup final and next year already.

[eelmonster]

Don't you know Sham Rovers get 2 points for a draw. Fookin FAI Dublin bias.

[harleyleeds]

mathematics class 2 : shams + officials + fai = league

[El-Pietro]

The difference is Rovers didnt cheat to win they league like the rest of them
I think....
what exactly did City do wrong in 05? it wasnt until 08 that Arkaga started spending ridiculous amounts

[Dixie Dean]

Christ almighty, the amount of actual football talk on here is almost non-existent with the amount of cringeily unfunny jibes everyone has to try to make all the time. Now we just need SkStu to show up and mention 4%, Reiteoir to mention a plastic bottle and then someone just to say the words Model Club and the cycle will be complete again.

We throw the bait you bite, its great craic, are you not enjoying it? :rolleyes:

[Model Club]

mathematics class 2 : shams + officials + fai = league

The sadness in this post is what really gets to me.
I can handle most "banter" from opposition fans but as someone who attended 99% of Rovers games home and away,this season and most of the last 20,I can honestly say we have suffered as much as anyone with dodgy refereeing decisions,and of course we have benefitted from their ineptitude aswell.Some big and some small.

An example how fans differ in their opinion was brought home to me this year as I left Tallaght after a Sligo game were I felt the referee gave us nothing I overheard a Sligo fan saying something like,"How can we beat 12 men".I was so taken aback I took him up on his statement but he didn't want to know!
Which one of us was right,probably both.

The FAI "bias" is a bit more complex but all I can say is that the FAI has helped out many clubs in difficult circumstances over the years.Bohs and Drogheda spring to mind both with regard to their home grounds.
We have also rightly been on the receiving end of the FAI when they relegated us for submitting the wrong accounts.This fate has happened with Cork,Derry,Shels of course,all correctly.
People argue clubs like Dublin City and Kilkenny didn't recieve much help from the FAI but then I don't think they deserved help as they failed to attract a core support to prove these clubs had an appetite for long term survival.Cobh fans will I'd imagine suggest the FAI did feck all to help them but from the little I know a lot of the people down there wanted to be demoted in order to get their house in order.Their unfortunate timing with regard to the building of the aviva stadium and the FAI's lack of funds didn't help either.

To sum up I dont feel the FAI treated us any different than another club in our position in a fight to the last against the GAA.
Nor do I blame them for constantly refeering to us when trying to preach a gospel of sustainability in this car crash of a league-Who do you think they should refer to ??
In time the "model club" tag adopted with sarcastic distain by many will dilute as clubs like Derry,Cork.Drogheda,Cobh become "model clubs" themselves.
Rovers are just the first to rise from the ashes and are all the FAI can use in their propaganda war trying to defend and promote this league.

Rovers won the league because they scored more goals than bohs.The fact that we done so against a club living way beyond their means makes it all the sweeter.Their budget may have been in the same region but the difference is we could/can afford ours-They obviously can't.

Will Rovers be the first team since we last won the league not to go bust?.....Only time will tell,but all the wishful thinking from bohs fans among others won't affect this-No matter how hard they try.Having come through what I personally have supporting my team 20+ years and knowing those in charge well I am truly confident Rovers are here for the long haul.

[harleyleeds]

you won the league because bray second goal was not givin and it wasn't even a close call .

[legendz]

I'm not going discuss what players earn what or what they do for a living, but since to pick two of the above you listed have talked about it in the press, Pat Flynn works for Coca-Cola, Craig Sives for an electronics shop. Training sessions have to be organised around this which makes things very difficult. So yes, we are a part-time club and to win the league as such is a great achievement.

Good read in the Indo touching on the finances side:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/financial-reality-to-stay-at-heart-of-hoops-plan-2401327.html

[bingoballs]

Congrats Shams, best team over the full season. I just hope we bring the FAI Cup home with us.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Mathematics Class:

12 points available, and you get 2 points. 12-2 =

Good comeback but most people would generally be talking about how many points their own team got from the games and not how many points they stopped the other team from getting

[BohsPartisan]

Did those other teams turn profits in the year they won the league?


http://www.tribune.ie/business/article/2010/aug/08/shamrock-rovers-losses-rise-to-620570/

:cool:

We were always at war with Eurasia.

[dfx-]

Galway are the best team, the best city, best people outside Dublin so fairplay to Sligo for overcoming these disadvantages to finish ahead of them. Credit where credit is due and all that.

Not winning the league though. For one, the FAI weren't on your side ;)

[Model Club]

We were always at war with Eurasia.

You clutch away there BP,I'm sure you'll find one last straw somewhere.

As usual,you think you know but you don't.

[Model Club]

you won the league because bray second goal was not givin and it wasn't even a close call .

Lets have a game of.........."we got more bogey decisions than you".It'll make the Cork and Derry threads last year look like single posts and be just as much fun as "your hooligans are worse than ours" thats been dragging on in the cup semi thread for weeks now.

Or you could just accept Shamrock Rovers won the league on friday.There,there little HL's,it'll all be over soon!

[BohsPartisan]

You clutch away there BP,I'm sure you'll find one last straw somewhere.

As usual,you think you know but you don't.

As usual? Where was I posting anything like this before? Anyway carry on, not like I want to stop your self destruction.

[SkStu]

em, just wanted to say...

4%.

[bingoballs]

"your hooligans are worse than ours"

Eh, nobody has hooligans quite like shams really, ye top the league on that front too so double congratulations to the model club.

[Rasputin]

You're right, it wouldn't matter, and you're wrong, we're not the worst team to win it.

2 years ago, it was claimed by a big points gap. Was that the worst league in years?
3 years ago, it was won by a team who like the other champions in the era, bought it with borrowed money? Was that the worst league in years?
9 years ago, Shels blew a 12 point gap, to lose the league on goal difference. Was that the worst league in years?
In 2002, Pats were deducted 15 points in order to let Shels win the league. Was that the worst league in years? Were they the worst team to win the league in years?

I could go on, and it may be something you don't understand, but there is NO greater feeling as a fan than winning your own country's top league. Doesn't matter what the year, or the quality of the opposition, it's a whole year's work to get to where we are now. It's not won over 10 games, or 5 games, or half a season, it's won in this country over 36 games. You test yourself against all kinds of opposition 4 times a year in all types of conditions, and if you're first, it means you were the best in the country over the season. There's no prizes for most beautiful football, or longest unbeaten run, or highest possession stats, you get them for getting to the line in front of everyone else.

Last year, we took 12 points from Sligo, this year we took 10 off them. So despite the prettier football, there is no argument over who is the better side results wise at this time.

Winning the league in turn results in CL football, where 2 rounds won = UEFA Cup group stage at least, and 1 round won = UEFA Cup playoffs at least. It leads to higher crowds at home and away games, and increased revenue which in turn attracts more sponsors and better players, and more success. We're not Cork, or Drogs, or Shels. Our board know what they're doing, and run the club as it should be run. It works.
Ive watched the league over the past decade and this Shams team is the worst footballing side to win the league in the past decade.
Nothing to do with statistics or that, just on watching your performances this season you were at best mediocre.
Now as you pointed out there that doesnt say much about the league, including ourselves.
Your absolutely right, the standard of the league this season has absolutely plummeted in comparison to years gone past.
Any impartial observer will tell you the same that Shams are the worst LOI winners in the past decade.
Also because I know the usual victimisation by Shams fans will be thrown out here, if for example that Bohs won the league on the last day instead of Shams I would be saying the exact same thing. Only difference is that Bohs fans seem to realise how bad their team actually was while Shams fans continue their delusions of grandeur.
And yes I know we have only knocked you out of the LC this season and havent beaten you in the league hence why you are more desrving winners than us.
Your the best of a very average and generally bad lot.

[legendz]

It was a poor league this season. The league did suffer from the loss of Cork and Derry. There was a quality deficit. Drogheda and Bray weren't good enough either. They should have been relegated last season and added little to the league this season with the second chance they had. It is a bit harsh on those clubs though. The Drog's have their problems and Bray had been preparing for life in Division One. Bray in fairness though have got their act together late in the season and I can see them surviving. I'm hoping for a better quality league next season, with all provinces represented.

[mypost]

Good comeback but most people would generally be talking about how many points their own team got from the games and not how many points they stopped the other team from getting

You've never heard of "1 point won, 2 points lost" so.

12-2 =

An Fear Sligeach: "8"

Try again. 12-2 =

"10"

Very good. You might get a gold star for the right answer. Except in your case, it's the bronze star for 3rd place.

[Charlie Darwin]

Am I the only one who thought the football this season was better than the last couple of years? Granted, Rovers didn't play champagne football, but Sligo, UCD and Fingal have been playing the ball on the floor the way nobody has in this country for years.

[BonnieShels]

Congrats Shamrock Rovers!!
As champions, I hope ye go on to represent the LoI well in Europe next season.
Fair play to Boh's as well, as reigning champions they put up a good fight, brought it to the last day and won 3-1.
Well done to Sligo Rovers as well. Third place is a magnificent achievement. I hope they get to enjoy a Cup win. They have been superb. Sligo only being 4 points off the top, keep that squad together...
Fingal then as well, backed hugely financially but still, first season for the club in the Premier, they've finished 4th and only 5 points off the top. European football to look forward to for the second season on the trot, not bad at all.

Ah man, way to ruin a good post. And yes I am bitter.
;)

Well done Shams. Thoroughly deserved over the season. Still think all in all Team of the season has to go to Sligo. And maybe even Mons. And Lims as well. In fact the LOI had a really good year with an awful lot if positives. Especially the last 3 weekends which were a great example of white line fever. Great season and here's to more of the same next year. Well with us getting promoted.

[bholg]

Good read in the Indo touching on the finances side:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/financial-reality-to-stay-at-heart-of-hoops-plan-2401327.html

apart from this bit: "While their victory over Bray Wanderers earned the club €200,000 in prize money......."

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

You've never heard of "1 point won, 2 points lost" so.

12-2 =

Fear an Sligeach: "8"

Try again. 12-2 =

"10"

Very good. You might get a gold star for the right answer. Except in your case, it's the bronze star for 3rd place.

Most normal people (I know that excludes you and "Model Club") when they say we took x amount of points off a club this season are on about the amount of points that their own club got not the amount of points that they stopped the other team getting.

For example if someone asked me how many points did Sligo take from Shams this season I would say 2. Not "we stopped them getting 4 points extra"

[Model Club]

Most normal people (I know that excludes you and "Model Club") when they say we took x amount of points off a club this season are on about the amount of points that their own club got not the amount of points that they stopped the other team getting.

For example if someone asked me how many points did Sligo take from Shams this season I would say 2. Not "we stopped them getting 4 points extra"

Please dont tie me in with Myposts maths lesson.I have my own opinions and express them as I wish.Just because we both support the same team doesn't mean we share anything else.
How would you like if I refered to you and "rasputin" as one and the same.

If you have an issue with me take me up on it.

[Model Club]

As usual? Where was I posting anything like this before? Anyway carry on, not like I want to stop your self destruction.

Sorry to cause confusion,twas more a broad remark regarding your brethren.

We intend carrying on thanks.Thats as much financial advice as we need though-especially from the Anglo Irish bank of the LOI!

[mypost]

Most normal people when they say we took x amount of points off a club this season are on about the amount of points that their own club got not the amount of points that they stopped the other team getting.

For example if someone asked me how many points did Sligo take from Shams this season I would say 2. Not "we stopped them getting 4 points extra"

Most normal people know that 12-2 = 10. That's a lot of points unclaimed in a season.

[OwlsFan]

As one who followed Rovers at Milltown and used to make the trek across the city as a kid to Dalymount for cup finals and games against Bohs and to Tolka to see the Hoops take on Drums and Shels and who was heart broken when Milltown was sold to property developers by someone who eventually became President of the FAI (!!) (supported by Dunphy), this to me is perhaps Rovers greatest achievement and the best day in its long and distinguished history. The club now has a reasonably secure ground and a good fanbase. Who would have thought this as the club was reprieved by the revenue commissioners just a few years ago. Huge congratulations to everyone involved in the club and those who stuck with it during the dark days.

[Neish]

You nearly f*cked it up, but congrats Shams best end to a league competition in a long time

[Rasputin]

Am I the only one who thought the football this season was better than the last couple of years? Granted, Rovers didn't play champagne football, but Sligo, UCD and Fingal have been playing the ball on the floor the way nobody has in this country for years.
I think the standard of the league is nothing to what it was just a few years ago tbh.
Look at the teams Drogs, Cork, Derry and Bohs fielded, the standard was just higher.
But tbh its neither here nor there, the teams they fielded were compeltely unsustainable on the economic model they had.
Still doesnt change from the fact it is the weakest LOI in years.

[passinginterest]

Overall the league was probably weaker but I think it's a valid point by Charlie Darwin that UCD, Fingal and Sligo are definitely playing an attractive brand of football. There's also been some incredible games and some stunning goals this season, I think the quality of goals in the goal of the season competition will be exceptional this year. Add to that the fact that pretty much everything was decided on the last day and all in it was an excellent league season.

[pineapple stu]

The top teams are weaker, but that was always going to happen. The bottom teams are probably getting stronger.

[Rasputin]

The top teams are weaker, but that was always going to happen. The bottom teams are probably getting stronger.
Do you really think the likes of Bray, Galway and Drogs are better than the bottom teams over the past decade or so?

[BonnieShels]

It's only weaker relative to an unsustainable past. I'll take this season over any other if it is the start of a realism in Irish soccer. The close season (for most of us) is upon us and we have scary days ahead with Bohs and dare I say it, the Fungus. If what the Lep says is true then we just need to concern ourselves with a potential implosion in Phibsboro. But let's leave that speculation til November 15th. There's still a lot of football to be played. And a potential cracker of a cup final.

[marinobohs]

As one who followed Rovers at Milltown and used to make the trek across the city as a kid to Dalymount for cup finals and games against Bohs and to Tolka to see the Hoops take on Drums and Shels and who was heart broken when Milltown was sold to property developers by someone who eventually became President of the FAI (!!) (supported by Dunphy), this to me is perhaps Rovers greatest achievement and the best day in its long and distinguished history. The club now has a reasonably secure ground and a good fanbase. Who would have thought this as the club was reprieved by the revenue commissioners just a few years ago. Huge congratulations to everyone involved in the club and those who stuck with it during the dark days.

+ 1. Despite our rivalry can genuinely be glad for the shams that stuck with them through the wlderness years. Know some of them and am aware of the hard work and dedication that turned things round when at times their very existance was at stake. enjoy guys ! :)

[pineapple stu]

Do you really think the likes of Bray, Galway and Drogs are better than the bottom teams over the past decade or so?
Yeah, I think so. But it's hard to tell; maybe it's just that the top clubs are poorer that the bottom ones appear more competitive and so better as a result.

This year, for example, Drogheda were very similar to us in 2008, but with more points. Bray in the second half of the season were a decent side - though had they matched their second-half points tally in the first half of the season, they'd still have been in the play-offs I think, so they weren't massively improved - and Galway took ten points off Bohs; don't recall the last side to end in the bottom three to do that to a top two side.

If you go back ten years as you suggest, there were some really poor sides - Kilkenny, Monaghan and Galway for example with 9, 12 and 15 points early in the decade stand out. It's hard to really tell of course.

[Rasputin]

Yeah, I think so. But it's hard to tell; maybe it's just that the top clubs are poorer that the bottom ones appear more competitive and so better as a result.
From my watching of the games this season I think it is just that the top clubs are poorer tbh.

This year, for example, Drogheda were very similar to us in 2008, but with more points. Bray in the second half of the season were a decent side - though had they matched their second-half points tally in the first half of the season, they'd still have been in the play-offs I think, so they weren't massively improved - and Galway took ten points off Bohs; don't recall the last side to end in the bottom three to do that to a top two side.
I didnt think yee were as bad as Drogs were this season.
As for the Galway and Bohs thing, I wouldnt read too much into that, sometimes teams can have a bogey team as such.

If you go back ten years as you suggest, there were some really poor sides - Kilkenny, Monaghan and Galway for example with 9, 12 and 15 points early in the decade stand out. It's hard to really tell of course.
That is true though that the old Kilkenny and Monaghan teams were just woefull.
But the difference this season is the standard of the bottom of the league was worse IMO, Drogs, Bray and Galway were 3 poor teams to be in a 10 team premier.

[pineapple stu]

You've also got the likes of the Waterford and Bray teams in 2006 who didn't even meet Dublin City's points tally even when City went bust half-way through the league; fairly bad teams both of them. Bray last year weren't great I think (wasn't paying as much attention to the Premier obviously).

Granted, Waterford in particular suffered that year cos they were thrown into the Premier at a week's notice. I'm sure there were other poor teams too.

[marinobohs]

Generally speaking I thought the standard in the Prem was poor this year but some clubs (Sligo, UCD, Sporting Fingal spring to mind) play a very attractive standard of football. Shams probobly the most consistent which is wjhy they won it (usually is) especially as the clubs around them Bohs and Sligo had more ups and downs than a rollercoaster. Do not see enough of the first Divisionto comment on standard so will leave that to those that can but reports I heard were that it was a good standard this year.

Very difficult to judge who was/were better champions as there are so many variables involved (champions team, opposition etc etc) all that can be said is that the champions were the best that year.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think the standard of the league is nothing to what it was just a few years ago tbh.
Look at the teams Drogs, Cork, Derry and Bohs fielded, the standard was just higher.
But tbh its neither here nor there, the teams they fielded were compeltely unsustainable on the economic model they had.
Still doesnt change from the fact it is the weakest LOI in years.
The standard of the individual players was higher but I think as a team game the standard of football has improved. Certainly, I'd never thought I'd see an Irish side go to Portugal and take them on with a passing game and actually succeed.

I wouldn't put that all down to the economic model, either. That was obviously a big draw for players, but there were also a glut of homegrown players who were at the peak a few years back and are heading towards retirement now (specifically J Byrne and Crowe). There are a lot of very young players in the league now who will be a lot better in a couple of years. Also, the circumstances that relegated Cork and Derry and Bray's not having had time to recruit a proper squad meant a lot of Prem-standard players were operating in the second tier.