Chelski - St Pat'ski link up

[TheSaint2002]

Red Rom link-up at Richmond Park from the IRISH SUN

St Pat's are to have secret talks in London next week about becoming a feeder club for Chelsea.

The ambitious plans will go ahead despite yesterday's shock resignation by manager EC.

Representatives from the Inchicore club are due to meet chelsea chief executive Peter Kenyon on Tuesday to dicuss a link up.

While Collins has left the Richmond Park hot seat he has not completely cut jis ties with St Pats and is prepared to help to facilitate a deal after initiating contact between the clubs.

Collins said: "I think it is a viable option for St Pat's to be a feeder club for a top premiership club because of our proximity to England and hopefully something can happen"

Collins was introduced to Kenyon by close friend and Monaco-based agent Mike Morris.

Morris has links with the elite sports agency headed by Jason Ferguson son of Alex.

Morris worked closely with Kenyon when he was chief-executive at Manchester United. He was involved in the deals to take Tim Howard and David Bellion to Old Trafford.

While money is apparently no object for Roman Abramovich, Kenyon wants the club to have strong foundations in case the Russian benefactor in case the Russian benefactor pulls the plug on his investment. And Kenyon
is open to the idea of forming an alliance with a club in another country.

It would give them first pick on any young talent to emerge at Pat's but with several other benefits to boot.

Irelands work permit rules are less stringent than in England which would mean that young foreign players who did no qualify for a visa could be loaned to the eircom League club.

Aresenal and United already have similar agreements with Belgian clubs Beveren and Royal Antwerp respectively.

Those alliances also allow them to send young or fringe players on loan to gain experience. Graham Stack spent time with Beveren and John O'Shea at Antwerp.

United have also had tie-in with Shelbourne but that is primarily with the lcubs schoolboy section. Kyle Moran moved to the Premiership gaints from $hels last year but there was unhappiness at Old Trafford when top target Anthony Stokes joined Arsenal.

St Pat's are hoping to have an even-closer relationship with Chelsea. Aside from lucrative games against the West London club, they also hope to benefit from their commercial and marketing expertise.

[A face]

I suppose if you cant stand on your own two feet like !!!

I know we were linked but i am glad that is gone now.

eL should be moving on from this kind of thing.

[GavinZac]

a fvcking disgrace to the league, they might as well wave the white flag with "watch the premiership" written on it.

[Dr.Nightdub]

A few years back I'd probably have taken a much dimmer view of this just on principle alone, but the way our finances are at the moment, we've got to be pragmatic and at least hear what's on the table (if anything). Beggars can't be choosers and we most certainly are beggars at the moment

[Macy]

If it benefits the club here, i.e. loan players, then I don't think it's as big an issue as the previous tie up's that were all take and no give from the English clubs.

I've been opposed to this type of thing before, however on reflection, if going to Pats is an extension of going to Chelsea everyone's a winner. The kid gets the training at Pats, the top one's still ultimately go to England, the one's that are decent but not exceptional don't come back at 19/20 totally píssed off with football - they stay in our league, Chelsea still get the pick of the best. Depends on the structures really.

[Dodge]

Depends on the structures really.
Most important point. Typerical hysterical response from GavinZac above... All we know is that the Pats chairman is having a meeting with the Chelsea chief executive this week. The 'papers are suggesting its a link up, it might not be. We'll see whats proposed before launching into any campaigns...

[pete]

I'm sure we've all slagged Shel$ off for their sellout but interesting to see changed attitudes now.

Suppose Pats would be the real winners here as Chelsea have so much cash they'll probably never take young players anyway as will just buy ready made players.

[Macy]

Leicester anyone? Or is that airbrushed from history pete? The Shels deal is still a bad deal, if it's done properly there's no reason why it can't work for both clubs.

[Dodge]

My guess at how Chelsea benefit. Chelsea scouts see hugely talented 18 cameroonian/Nigerian/Ghanain... They can't get a work permit in England due to PFA restrictions (player must be senior international playing 75% of games, no previous european experience etc...) Chelsea turf him out to Ireland as irish football has no restrictions on work permits. Plays one year in Ireland, Chelsea get a further look at him and if he's good enough they'll apply for a workpermit on the basis of his european experience and possible international games. Arsenal do it at beveren, Man utd do it at Antwerp. Chelsea pay (in their world) peanuts to Pats.

Pats receive (in our world) substantial funding, the loan of better quality players and maybe some coaching/marketing help.


The Shels/man utd deal and the proposed Leicester/Cork deal were bith **** and still are.

[Éanna]

I've been against these stupid link ups from the start and see no reason to change my mind. they might be beneficial in some ways but how can anyone respect a club who sees sending its good players to another club on a prodcution line as the height of its ambitions :rolleyes: At least city had the good sense to throw the leicester thing out the window, even if it did take a while.

[pete]

Leicester anyone? Or is that airbrushed from history pete? The Shels deal is still a bad deal, if it's done properly there's no reason why it can't work for both clubs.

All i can think of is rugby when Leicester mentioned... Memory not so good these days...



:)

[Macy]

I've been against these stupid link ups from the start and see no reason to change my mind. they might be beneficial in some ways but how can anyone respect a club who sees sending its good players to another club on a prodcution line as the height of its ambitions :rolleyes: At least city had the good sense to throw the leicester thing out the window, even if it did take a while.
And if it keeps young players in Ireland, at eL clubs in the process of the exceptional ones going? The biggest talent problem we have as a league is players coming home disillusioned and not interested. If the link ups are structured in away so that players stayed here till they were 18 (say) and then the English club had the pick, it's surely better than the kids going over at 15 and being finished at 20? It's all about how it's structured, and if it's done right it could be of huge benefit for the league long term. The numbers that come back to the league out of the numbers that headed over is miniscule.

Previously I probably would've shared your views, but one of the missus' first cousins has just been released from a Premiership Club. Dreams, Career everything shattered - playing pub football now, when he could probably do a job for a team in the eL.

[eoinh]

Pats receive (in our world) substantial funding, the loan of better quality players and maybe some coaching/marketing help.




I think its chelsea who could do with the coaching help

[tiktok]

I agree with Macy, it all depends on how well it's structured, the leicester deal with City was basically 'rob our manager, then Damien Delaney and give nothing back, ever'. That kind of set-up does nobody any favours whatsoever.

If it's run properly it can be of advantage to both clubs, Dodge is dead right in his comparison to United's deal with Royal Antwerp, they currently have a very promising Chinese youngster there for exactly the reason mentioned.

[eoinh]

yeah it really works for royal antwerp! :rolleyes:


latest table

Belgium 2003/04


Table:

1.RSC Anderlecht 33 25 5 3 76-26 80 Champions
2.Club Brugge KV 33 21 6 6 74-31 69 CL Qualifying
3.Standard CL (Liège) 33 17 11 5 66-30 62
4.Excelsior Mouscron 33 15 13 5 63-41 58
5.KRC Genk 33 16 8 9 55-38 56
6.VC Westerlo 33 14 9 10 50-44 51
7.Germinal Beerschot Antwerpen 33 11 11 11 33-38 44
8.AA Louviéroise 33 10 13 10 44-45 43
9.Lierse SK 33 8 15 10 33-37 39 [-]
10.Sporting Lokeren SNW 33 10 8 15 44-53 38
11.Sint Truidense VV 33 9 11 13 36-48 38
12.RAA Gent 33 7 16 10 31-34 37
13.SK Beveren Waas 33 10 5 18 40-56 35
14.Cercle Brugge KSV 33 7 13 13 27-51 34
15.RAEC Mons 33 7 12 14 29-51 33
16.Sporting du Pays de Charleroi 33 7 9 17 34-47 30
-------------------------------------------------------
17.K Heusden-Zolder 33 7 7 19 34-65 28
18.Royal Antwerp FC 33 7 6 20 28-62 27

[wws]

its an interesting one all right - attitudes have changed and if honest most of us at all clubs envy the way shels get a cash injection and a high profile corporate speaker in Sir Alex over and than charge a few grand a table - knock it all you will but just remember the next time Jason Byrne or Glen Fitzpatrick knock a goal past your team that deals like the manunited link up generate the readies to pay for quality like that - people slag shels for poor crowds but dont realise its all the spin off deals that they do which actually generate the real bucks for making a title winning team - they'll never have fans but they'll always be number 1 on the money side precisely because of shrewd business deals

I doubt if we'd ever produce a player good enough for chelsea - seeing as the way theyre going, england itself will soon be unable to produce a young player good enough for such a mega spending team

kenyon is just casting his net out and doing all the little bits and bobs that mega clubs do - its a wekks business for him - just another deal in the building of a mega football empire -for pats it could potentially save us (if true)

best not to read to much into it either way though unless something was actully announced!

[Éanna]

And if it keeps young players in Ireland, at eL clubs in the process of the exceptional ones going?
I agree with the rest of your post, but the above just isn't the case. When Damien Delaney left City, went to Leicester and made his debut at old trafford, that should have pointed a lot of kids in the direction of city and it didn't. they're still going over.

[Macy]

I agree with the rest of your post, but the above just isn't the case. When Damien Delaney left City, went to Leicester and made his debut at old trafford, that should have pointed a lot of kids in the direction of city and it didn't. they're still going over.
Exactly, because the structures aren't in place! At the moment we can't compete with the coaching set up's. If we did, with education to go with it, then there would be a chance that this situation would change. You could point at Roy Keane or Paul McGrath too, but that never changed the situation either...

[Éanna]

Yeah, but I don't see how linking up with premiership clubs will imrpove coaching. leicester muttered something about coaching exchanges, but to the best of my knowledge that never happened. the only way things will change is if the infrastructure is improved and licensing is fully implemented- thats the first step.

[Dodge]

Yeah, but I don't see how linking up with premiership clubs will imrpove coaching. leicester muttered something about coaching exchanges, but to the best of my knowledge that never happened. the only way things will change is if the infrastructure is improved and licensing is fully implemented- thats the first step.
it'll improve coaching if they fund the money to pay for coaches, for facilities etc...

Not bringing coaches over for one off sessions with kids but paying money for all a clubs coaches to be as highly qualified as possible...

[pete]

IMO eL clubs are too focused on stadium facilities when little attention been put towards improving training facilties which are still very poor.

Anyone know what happened the FAI plans for regional training faciltites???

[Roo69]

a fvcking disgrace to the league, they might as well wave the white flag with "watch the premiership" written on it.

Don' agree with atht at all. Bigger and Better Clubs from Bigger and Better Leagues are used as feeder clubs as well for the likes of United and Arsenal from as far away as Brazil. If it means money is put back into the club then it can only be good, Players will only be brought over if there good enough, and at the right price as well. Don't see a problem with this as long as Clubs don't sell themselves short, which i dont think they will.

[A face]

For and against ... pros and cons ..... Lads, the end product, the results that these links produce are normally nothing to write home about. There are very few instances where it has been totally beneficial or a complete windfall for the smaller club. Whos to say the club that part-takes in the link couldn't have made progress on thier own. In our league, the idea of being linked with a big club isn't going to have fans streaming in the gates so the idea of the link will only go so far. Maybe the advice that the bigger club offers may be beneficial but the smaller club still does all the work, and money and coaching is thin on the ground. That the way i have seen it, open to correction though.

[Dr.Nightdub]

Exhibit A: Shels. You hardly think Ollie'd be bothered about the link up with Man.U. if there was nothing in it for Shels do you?

[eoinh]

Exhibit B - Royal Antwerp - relegated!

[A face]

Exhibit A: Shels. You hardly think Ollie'd be bothered about the link up with Man.U. if there was nothing in it for Shels do you?

I am on about tangiable beneifits ... a friendly every year is great but i am talking about a club evolving into a good side like a Dutch or Swedish team. Shels are not going that anyway fast. And there isn't a lot happening that they aren't doing themselves. What i am saying is that clubs are progressive not because they are linked with another club, it is because they put in the work.

Bigger clubs like Man U are not throwing money at any clubs, you can be sure of that. In fact ManUre in particular are a club that really watch the pounds. You can take isolated cases but by and large links dont work in the smaller clubs favour, while the bigger clubs promise the sun, moons and stars.

But man ..... if you think it is good then cool, you'd want to ... you are just about to get linked !! ;)

[Dodge]

Exhibit B - Royal Antwerp - relegated!
Yeah but where would they be without the link...

it should not be the sole purpose of any club but if managed properly it can be a good thing...

[TheSaint2002]

I think the likes of these links might help save the whole thing, like others I was against them in previous years but people have to face facts about the eircom League and pretty they aint, 1 Most clubs are F**cking broke and only a few are brave enough to admit it ehem 2 The crowds are **** on a whole 3 The standard has gone poxy bar a few rare games 4 The general Irish public go out of their way to have nothing to do with EL 5 The grounds are ****holes 6 The tele coverage is utter S**t 7 general media coverage is poor at best, i have to be brave enough to call a spaid a spaid, I love the EL but facts are facts and they have to be faced if Irish soccer has any future there is no point putting the head in the sand and hoping all goes well, if chelski or anyone else wants to link up then clubs should jump for it, its all probaly Pie in the Sky anyway.