Slovakia V Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 12th October 2010 - Euro 2012 Qualifier

[paul_oshea]

Technically we're still in it to top the group, but in reality that would require taking 6 points from Macedonia, beating Slovakia and taking a point from Moscow. That's a big ask, and won't be achieved unless we get guys like Doyle, Duff and Hunt back and improve the situation of Robbie/Given.
In reality, we're in the hunt for second yet again. On the plus side, I think we're looking in a much better position that Slovakia.

Their result in Moscow seems like a freak result, for both those teams, Russia look strong and have gotten 6 points out of tough trips to Dublin and Skopje.
if we beat Slovakia in Dublin we'll be looking very good to finish ahead of them. To be honest I don't think we'll even need to do that, I can see them being more likely to drop points against Macedonia than us, while I think Russia will be targeting a win in Slovakia for revenge and to basically clinch top spot.
That would mean that even if we slip up against Macedonia and only got a draw away, we could lose to Russia in Moscow, and beat Slovakia in Dublin and still come second.


So, we're aiming for second again. This time we're in a very good position to make it, and that's not a bad situation to be in up against a side that reached the knockout stage of the World Cup and a Russian side who can play some fantastic stuff. Just a little dissapointing/frustrating when you think a late equaliser against russia, and Robbie's penalty going in in Zilina and we'd be looking great for first.

So manage expectations, setting in again. We are happy now for second. Come june we will be happy to fight it out for second and then september, just happy that we have a chance of still coming second if results go our way....

[Stuttgart88]

Stutts, i dont really know what yer other point is? Of course the team who scores more goals wins.My point is simple: the general performance was good enough to win a game like that, we just wasted the chances we created. You were saying the general performance was awful.

[tetsujin1979]

Slovakia's next two games are Andorra home and away, so they will expect to pick up 6 points there, meaning we will have to match their results against Macedonia to still be in contention for second when the return game comes around next September.

[boovidge]

guys, don't forget about Armenia who look like a useful outfit. They certainly look like contenders for 2nd atm.

[SwanVsDalton]

Six points would put us in pole position with Slovakia and Armenia at home as well as Andorra. Looks like away to Macedonia is going to be the crucial game of the campaign. Nervous already.

[paul_oshea]

My point is simple: the general performance was good enough to win a game like that, we just wasted the chances we created. You were saying the general performance was awful.

It wasn't though. Bar a penalty, a fair one albeit and robbies miss thats all we created(the one over the bar was good build up play and ball in, but robbie made the play for himself). In the second half had we even 1 shot on target. that is not good enough to win a game.

Its funny had we maybe played armenia last night we might well have only got a draw and people would have said a good result too. Its all psychological with the fans and players it seems. Its as though we put teams on a pedestal and give them too much respect, if we think they are a good side then they are a good side.

[tetsujin1979]

away from the game for a minute, I was reading through the articles on soccerrepublic. Is it just me or have they become slightly more critical of the side since the sponsorship with eircom expired? Probably not too surprising.

[tetsujin1979]

By the way, i don't know if ye watched the webcast, but Brady was under the impression that McCarthy is tied to us from the Brazil friendly. That's actually quite scary and a damning advertisemtn for the FAI. Fair deuce to Bill for making the comment about him being the assistant manager. There's a phone call that's needed to James asap.To be fair to Brady, he did admit his mistake and that Trapattoni needed to be informed about this


Also Bill brought up Barry Maguire and the panel didn't have a clue who he was talking about. I love Eamonn and Johnny normally, but there lack of knowledge is depressing. We're all a bunch of Ireland lovers with no involvement with the FAI (I think!) and i think anyone on this forum could list out more players available to the irish squad than the staff of the FAI combined. That's very very sad in my opinion.Bill mentioned Maguire and O'Hara as having declared for Ireland, and Brady said that he was sure O'Hara hadn't declared yet. They didn't say they didn't know anything about Maguire, they just didn't discuss him. Bill said he scored a hat trick against Celtic, but he only scored one.

[geysir]

So manage expectations, setting in again. We are happy now for second. Come june we will be happy to fight it out for second and then september, just happy that we have a chance of still coming second if results go our way....
The target was to get the results to top the group, we are not yet good enough for that - unless Russia collapse - now we accept 2nd place if it's going.
Happy doesn't come into it.
Last night was a performance to put us slightly ahead for 2nd place spot and it was far from a performance needed by a team challenging for 1st spot.

In the short term - to the next batch of qualifiers in Spring - we need a total overhaul at centre midfield -
by next June we need 2 full backs, - a flat back 4 wont get us through a play off, if we make it that far.
I think we have good enough players elsewhere.

[Fixer82]

Another poor night at the office.

They were there for the taking and we let them off the hook. If Robbie had scored the penalty would we have won? Doubtful.

We're no worse off than we were at the start of the game. Let Russia run away with it now, and gear up for a fight for 2nd. Has to be 6 against Macedonia, then things should look a bit better.

As for the 3 wise men, Giles and Dunphy don't watch any football unless they're sitting in the RTE studio. Their lack of knowledge could fill several libraries.

Yeah I think if Robbie had scored there's every chance we would have let them back into it. Possible in injury time.

Incidentally what was the story with the ref Stopping the game on 91 minutes cos of injury and instead of dropping the ball just blowing the game up? Annoyed me

meh :brolly:

[Jicked]

So manage expectations, setting in again. We are happy now for second. Come june we will be happy to fight it out for second and then september, just happy that we have a chance of still coming second if results go our way....

There's no point not being realistic. If Keane's chip against Russia goes in after 10 minutes, chances are we're talking today about winning the group. We're now probably not going to win the group looking at it realistically. That's disappointing, we had a chance to do that after the first 2 games, maybe even after the russia game we still could. Slovakia would have said the same before the thing started, and certainly would have looked at winning it after beating Russia. Now though it's the Russian's in pole position.

That could all change if we go out and beat Macedonia twice, Slovakia at home and finally win a big away game in Moscow. Should we look to win every game in the hope of that happening - of course. But when a point in Moscow could be so crucial, I don't exactly like the idea of going hell for leather looking for goals over there and letting Kerzhakov, Arshavin and the rest run at Kilbane, Whelan or whoever's playing that day. I think some people have great delusions about Keith Fahey or James McCarthy imperiously strutting around the Luzhniky stadium if only if it wasn't for our defensive tactics. But just look at how Russia picked us apart towards the end of the game on Friday when we pushed forward.

A point in Moscow would be great, it would set us up for finishing second. And maybe with a bit of luck for once we'll finally take a half-chance and nick a 1-0 win. Unlikely, but not beyond the realms of possibility.

[Duggie]

we have duff / hunt / lawerence / doyle to add to last nights team. its not all bad and i dont think russia are dead certs to run away with this group. anything could happen yet.

[paul_oshea]

We say the same everytime jicked.

At the end of the day as oleary would say, your first paragraph comes back to the point, that the russians were favourites, and are top of the group, no matter what happened they are still there. So you can have your permutations, what ifs, we can do, we could still etc etc results and the tables dont lie. We are joint 2nd with 2 others, its hardly where we wanted or thought we would be(2nd, perhaps), or should be happy with after the '10 games.

[Kingdom]

I actually rated McGeady tonight despite the lack of final ball. It's so frustrating: there's a good team trying to get out of this lot. The attitude & approach to the game was fine tonight. The players had the courage to play it on the deck. A couple of players stood out, namely Fahey and Long and others like O'Shea, Dunne, Sledge, McGeady all looked more than suited to the game. KK was alright, a decent shift. One more midfielder and a sharper forward...

The prospect of Doyle & Long excites me.

Duff, Hunt, Lawrence & Andews to become available available, McCarthy or Wilson or a dark horse against Norway to step up. Robbie & Shay to sharpen up.

The glass is still half full but two big negatives:

- Another chance of a credible away win is gone. The longer this goes on the harder it becomes to get one. If we get one, the next one becomes easier. Israel away still kills me in this regard. Even Slovakia last time out.

- 7 points out of 12. We need to be constantly ticking along at 2 points per game. In golfing parlance, we're 1 over par. We need a couple of birdies.

As ever the voice of reason. I'll try to be as fair, while still trying to be realistic when I give my tuppence worth later!

[paul_oshea]

Its not kingdom its looking optimistically rather than on previous results and history, and you can see your future - its mapped out in scars.

[Kingdom]

All jokes aside, as of right now I wouldnt be entirely confident of us getting six points off them either.



Ya you could tell from Giles face when he mentioned Barry M that he hadnt a clue who he was. These guys are first paid good money to be on the show and second are meant to have a strong interest in Irish international football. Its not much to ask of them to just be aware of whats relevant to the team and what options are out there.

I know the webcast is more relaxed but still Brady not knowing (and hinting that Trap doesnt either) about the rule re tying a player down when it has been known by pretty much every poster here for months is a bit alarming.

Your wrong. They're paid good money to improve the ratings, and given their history if there is a hint of controversy they will do that.

They've been on the box longer than I've been watching Ireland matches and it's very obvious that when they were initially selected, it was done on the basis of Giles knows how football should be played (very relevant when he started) while Dunphy was a good journalist and a former player. 25 years later, Giles still knows how football should be played but his knowledge of footballers in a general sense is almost embarrasing. Dunphy is no better, but he does try to waffle his way out of it.

The difference between the paid analysts and someone like myself is that my interest is solely on the National team, and all it's tributaries, whether that's the underage teams, the FAI, the management, or the emerging eligible players such as Barry Maguire, Hogan Ephraim or Selcuk Tidim, whereas the paid analysts are interested in some of the English teams, how they compete in the EPL and the CL, and then the National team.

Oh and the small matter of them having the professional experience to back their assertions up!

[Kingdom]

Slovakia's next two games are Andorra home and away, so they will expect to pick up 6 points there, meaning we will have to match their results against Macedonia to still be in contention for second when the return game comes around next September.

That's the single biggest thing to take from the weekend just gone unfortunately. Come the return game, we in all reality be at best still level with Slovakia, and perhaps trailing them, meaning they can come to Dublin, throw men behind the ball and try hit us on the break. A big worry unfortunately. We'd a chance last night to really hurt them, and as a consequence keep us in touch with Russia, and neither happened. Disappointing.

[Noelys Guitar]

We are playing for second place and against two rivals now(Armenia and Slovakia). But the second half last night showed again we are going to have real problems closing out our remaining home games and the away game to Macedonia (Andorra we will beat). There is something wrong that is not being addressed by the management. yes we will have some players back (and will probably lose some as well) but so will the other teams. I watched the game again this morning and it is crystal clear that we adpoted a what we have we hold in the second half. Free kicks played backwards. Whelan turning back towards his goal at every opportunity to play the ball. Thankfully McGeady decided to play the Slovakians by himself. But we still ended up drawing with a very, very poor team. Thankfully there is a gap now and we desperately need some new QUALITY players introduced. But again I'm not convinced Trap is going to make a whole lot of changes against Norway. I hope I'm wrong.

[tetsujin1979]

given that we were seeded third, is it any great surprise that we are playing for second?

[Stuttgart88]

The timing of when teams get their 6 points from Andorra is irrelevant in my opinion. Slovakia, or anyone, would be stupid to deploy a game plan in Dublin that ignores the near certainty of us getting 3 points in Andorra. It's the state of the relative results against the other teams that's important.

We're marginally ahead of Slovakia in my book, mainly because we have still to play Slovakia at home. If we win that then it's very much advantage us.

If we beat Slovakia at home we need to match their remaining results to finish ahead of them.*

Our respective Russia and Armenia results to date cancel each other out.

They beat Macedonia at home, but we'd expect to do that too. I don't think that's much of a result to have "in the bag".

I think the fact that Slovakia have Russia at home favours them perhaps. They're likely to get more points from Russia at home than we will away.

Winning the group is unlikely given our propensity to avoid winning winnable games.

* is it head-to-head or GD that decides if 2 teams are level?

[paul_oshea]

what you have to ask yourselves is what happens if russia lost to slovakia a away, we are in real pressure cooker stuff there.

I agree with noely, last few posts have been sensible, its a bad return, we have been poor, others will miss players too and so will we. I dread the scenario above, although it would bring us right back into it, it would mean russia would have the ball in their court(in terms of us playing them away and all their home games) and slovakia could pip top.....

[Kingdom]

The timing of when teams get their 6 points from Andorra is irrelevant in my opinion. Slovakia, or anyone, would be stupid to deploy a game plan in Dublin that ignores the near certainty of us getting 3 points in Andorra. It's the state of the relative results against the other teams that's important.
Fair enough.


We're marginally ahead of Slovakia in my book, mainly because we have still to play Slovakia at home. If we win that then it's very much advantage us.
Certainly.


If we beat Slovakia at home we need to match their remaining results to finish ahead of them.*
It's head to head that counts first. So beating them at home becomes the imperative.



They beat Macedonia at home, but we'd expect to do that too. I don't think that's much of a result to have "in the bag".
I disagree here. We struggled badly against Montenegro last year. How much of that was a hangover from the Italy game? Who knows? I doubt very much that the Macedonians will be at that level away from home, but they posed problems for the Slovaks, who were blessed to take the three points.


I think the fact that Slovakia have Russia at home favours them perhaps. They're likely to get more points from Russia at home than we will away.
It's not just that though, it's the fact that they play Russia after we play in Moscow. Russia could need to beat us to finish off the group, while they could be going to Slovakia with little to play for.


Winning the group is unlikely given our propensity to avoid winning winnable games.
Unfortunately.

[SwanVsDalton]

Its not kingdom its looking optimistically rather than on previous results and history, and you can see your future - its mapped out in scars.

GREEN-APOCOLYPSE

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1876/endnigh5.jpg

[Kingdom]

given that we were seeded third, is it any great surprise that we are playing for second?

No, it's a fair cop guv, and sometimes people lose the run of themselves both positively and negatively. I'm as guilty as anyone before a match. Retrospectively I try to be balanced. I wonder how many people go back and watch the matches in full again to challenge themselves more than anything, and to form an opinion free of the emotion during a match?
I'd reckon there would be a bit of a difference!

[paul_oshea]

Just to add to your point kingdom, if it goes on head to heads, russia slip up against slovakia or even someone else, we are all level, if we draw with slovakia at home which is probably what will happen, we go out because russia beat us, and slovakia beat russia, so they go top and russia go second. I could actually see this happening, as i see probably getting a draw in russia.

[ifk101]

There's a lot of football to be played yet. Both Russia and Slovakia will drop points in their remaining games. And I think we have players to come in and improve us.

[paul_oshea]

ON what basis do you think Russia, will drop points, their loss at home was a blip, one which they were unlucky to at least not get a draw, on any other day they would have. they have showed nothing but professionalism and killer instinct to win games out.

Slovakia and Armenia will drop points. BUt i really don't see where people are getting this Russia will drop points from argument.

[ifk101]

Macedonia missed a penalty relatively late in the game yesterday with Russia paul_oshea. Defensively Russia looked weak against us. They lost at home to a poor Slovakian side. They laboured to a 2-0 victory against Andorra. So yeah I think they'll drop points further along.

[Wolfie]

What a difference a few days make - we're well a truly back to our default position of competing for 2nd.

Trapp tends to mention "Mentality" during interviews and lot of our expectations for the rest of the group are now based on a dog fight for 2nd as opposed to topping the group and avoiding another potential heartbreak of a playoff.

Keane's missed chances cost us the win last night and reiterates an old theme with Trapp.

The tactics we currently deploy requires a ruthlessness in front of goal when the few opportunities arise.

There's quite a few teams would have dominated less in the first half - that would have put a few past Slovakia last night.

Keane had an off night - and there's reasons for it - he's far from finished, provided he gets first team football and his sharpness should return.

That said - if we continue to pass up these big chances in games - we'll struggle.

I'd like to see McCarthy, Wilson and Treacy all involved against Norway. We've a few to return from injury also.

The next series of head to heads will really shape the group -most notably, the Russians v Armenians and ourselves against our old friends - The Macedonians.

Russia have really got themselves out of a spot and the advantage lies with them for top spot but there's a fair bit to go yet.

Make no mistake - Macedonia will be very tough.

[paul_oshea]

Thing is unlike us they still won the games out.

[ifk101]

I think you just what to moan today. Everything okay in your personal life?

[paul_oshea]

I think you just what to moan today. Everything okay in your personal life?

couldn't be better to be honest, i got the job i went for yesterday confirmed at lunch time, and its a sector ive wanted to work in again for quite some time.

However I just got a bit fed up of everyone here before not questioning anything and thinking all about 4 points and this and that, and blind to the fact that going the way we were we were never going to get those points. Everyone had a go at shamrockireland even though he put across a very good argument backed up well with relevant points. Im surprised he hasn't actually come back to gloat tbh!! :D

I think the conclusion comes that, unless we find a few solutions and trap uses the friendlies to the best possible effect by bringing in the names mentioned, and possibly some more, assuming they do well they ACTUALLY start the competitive games, then we will be still talking along the same lines come the next qualifiers i.e. it is up to trap to CHANGE himself and change the team and tactics as the need arises.

[SwanVsDalton]

However I just got a bit fed up of everyone here before not questioning anything and thinking all about 4 points and this and that, and blind to the fact that going the way we were we were never going to get those points.

For the last time Paul very few people did this, there was a wide range of positive and negative views on the team pre and post games. Whereas the only people blindly insisting on a point of view were people like...


Everyone had a go at shamrockireland even though he put across a very good argument backed up well with relevant points. Im surprised he hasn't actually come back to gloat tbh!! :D

...ShamrockIreland. He brought up a couple of decent points but generally masked it in the kind of WUMming, hyperbolic rhetoric that's easy to ignore. And the evidence for his 'we're doomed' mentality was, and is, extremely thin.

I think a lot of people actually agree with some of the things he, and you say, but it's just so OTT. You can't complain about people being blindly positive when you guys are just as myopic on the negative side.

[ifk101]

There're massive question marks there. For example, poor Paul Green has taken some slaughtering in here.

But I think there're lots of positive signs to take from yesterday's game, despite the overall lacklustre performance in the second half. We created far more clear cut goal scoring chances yesterday than Slovakia. We kept their two best players relatively quite throughout. Hamsik, who I personally think is quite a player, never had any real influence on the game. Both Fahey and Long were our best players, and in the process showed to Trapattoni that we do have some level of depth in our squad.

Russia are the best team in the group so far but there'll be plenty of twists and turns before this group is decided. We still have everything in our own hands.

[Duggie]

lads in all likelyhood the team will stay the same with duff/hunt/lawerence/andrews/doyle all coming back into contention. i dont see to many, if any additions from nov friendly.

[Stuttgart88]

if russia lost to slovakia a away... slovakia could pip top

True, but how do you square that scenario with


Slovakia are very poor?

Congrats on the job. I trust it's not as a motivational coach :)

[paul_oshea]

same way as kingdom says it here(perhaps luck....

[quote]As for their result against Slovakia, I wouldn't agree that they caught the Slovaks off guard at all. Slovakia I feel aren't as good a team as has been made out, and while results are the important part of football, sometimes they don't tell the full story. Slovakia were absolutely poxed lucky to beat Russia, and they needed an injurytime goal plus a ludicrous red card for Macedonia to get the three points[/qoute]

...But more likely because we cant finish teams off, and they only need one lucky deflection/penalty and 10 men behind the ball for 90 mins against russia to win, sounds unrealistic doesn't it? BUt they did it once.....

thanks stutts. ill have to put up with working with knob jockeys for the overall benefit of good experience.


Swan: honestly if i had the time or could be arsed and wasn't so lazy, id pull out the posts, but there was definitely too much unrealistic expectation, i say that based on what went before.

[SwanVsDalton]

There're massive question marks there. For example, poor Paul Green has taken some slaughtering in here.

But I think there're lots of positive signs to take from yesterday's game, despite the overall lacklustre performance in the second half. We created far more clear cut goal scoring chances yesterday than Slovakia. We kept their two best players relatively quite throughout. Hamsik, who I personally think is quite a player, never had any real influence on the game. Both Fahey and Long were our best players, and in the process showed to Trapattoni that we do have some level of depth in our squad.

Russia are the best team in the group so far but there'll be plenty of twists and turns before this group is decided. We still have everything in our own hands.

I partly agree. Last night was, for me, one of our better away performances under Trap. We bossed most of the game and should've won - poor finishing was our undoing. Slovakia arn't great, and certainly wern't last night, but we dominated them in their patch. Given the paucity of riches we've experienced away in recent years, that's worth something. There's still plenty to look at of course - our reliance on long ball, our inability to change a match or really up the tempo, our defending at set plays.

But again it seems to come down to this argument of 'we're rubbish when we play poorly, but the opposition is rubbish when we play well.' So simplistic.

[ifk101]

lads in all likelyhood the team will stay the same with duff/hunt/lawerence/andrews/doyle all coming back into contention. i dont see to many, if any additions from nov friendly.

Yeah I wouldn't expect too many changes. I don't think it's wise anyways to make too many changes. But Foley and Wilson are in the squad so I think Trapattoni will give them a run out against Norway and/or in the forthcoming 3 nations cup. McCarthy possibly might get a look in as well (.... that's if he wants it).

[Stuttgart88]

There're massive question marks there. For example, poor Paul Green has taken some slaughtering in here.

But I think there're lots of positive signs to take from yesterday's game, despite the overall lacklustre performance in the second half. We created far more clear cut goal scoring chances yesterday than Slovakia. We kept their two best players relatively quite throughout. Hamsik, who I personally think is quite a player, never had any real influence on the game. Both Fahey and Long were our best players, and in the process showed to Trapattoni that we do have some level of depth in our squad.

Russia are the best team in the group so far but there'll be plenty of twists and turns before this group is decided. We still have everything in our own hands.I agree but I'm nowhere near convinced that we have it in us to eek out all the results we need. We're just not clinical enough.

I think Paul is misreading a lot of what some of us are saying. Speaking for myself, I have said that the team needs refreshing, but in this context it's good that Long & Fahey have shown that players can come in and make a difference. I hope, but don't necessarily expect, that at least one of McCarthy, Wilson or Foley may make an impact in November and afterwards. All I've been saying (since November 2009) is that with a bit of polish at either end we'd be miles better off. It's not wildly optimistic to think we can - note: nobody is saying we will.

In 5 months time we might have a bit more depth and players like Duff, Hunt, Lawrence may be back competing for wide spots allowing Fahey to move centrally. I can't tell you how happy I was with this fella's contribution last night. Keane and Given may be sharper. Of course, we may also be depleted so you can't count on anything.

[Duggie]

id actually love to see fahey in the middle, think he could actually control the tempo. but hes not playing that role at birmingham so this may not help his case.

[Stuttgart88]

I always take a glass half full approach, rightly or wrongly. I've got a positive view of people & the world, it's just me.

Some facts:
Russia lost over 2 legs to Slovenia. They laboured against Andorra and lost to Slovakia in Moscow.
We were unbeaten in 10 games last year and the general feeling is that if we sharpen up we have it in us to get better.
That makes getting some kind of result being possible against Russia not unrealistic in advance of the game

We were the better team and made the better chances yesterday. Usual faults cost us the win. I'd have preferred they had less of the ball in the last 25 minutes but I felt comfortable during the second half last night, and this is from a guy who practically has a coronary when the opposition wins a goal kick against Ireland. This means that expecting a decent result in Slovakia wasn't too far out.

This is decidedly glass-half-full as well, but it's true that:
Slovakia were blessed to win in Russia
Slovakia were lucky to beat Macedonia
Slovakia were lucky not to be 2-1 behind to us (and lose)
Russia's 3rd goal against us was an outrageous deflection
Russia were lucky not to be pegged back to 1-1 last night.
On our side we got a soft (but correct?) penalty v Russia and Slovakia missed a couple of key players.
In the debit column we missed a few players ourselves.

On our side we also deserved our ugly win in Armenia and weren't clinical enough in either Armenia or Slovakia. With luck (a fair bit of) we might have got something against Russia (hitting the bar early on when Doyle was certain to score, Dunne being penalised wrongly for Russia's deflected first goal...).

OK, I'm rambling, but if Paul's contention is that Slovakia might pip the group because their luck might continue then I can't let that go without a counter of we might just stay in there if we play to our best.

[paul_oshea]

OK, I'm rambling, but if Paul's contention is that Slovakia might pip the group because their luck might continue then I can't let that go without a counter of we might just stay in there if we play to our best.

Ya, ill go with the luck part when it comes to the latter :D joking.

[tetsujin1979]

id actually love to see fahey in the middle, think he could actually control the tempo. but hes not playing that role at birmingham so this may not help his case.
I don't know if the defensive side of Fahey's game would be enough for him to play in centre midfield. If he did play there, I'd like to see him behind the main striker with 2 defensive players behind him.

[geysir]

It's always a bad sign when the calculator comes out and we haven't even reached 1/2 way yet.

Time to smell the coffee Tets, 2 defensive midfielders is not working for us, it is as dead as the dodo.
Moving pieces around the board won't give it real purpose. There is no substitute for midfielder who has got the attributes of a midfielder.

[tetsujin1979]

It's always a bad sign when the calculator comes out and we haven't even reached 1/2 way yet.

Time to smell the coffee Tets, 2 defensive midfielders is not working for us, it is as dead as the dodo.
Moving pieces around the board won't give it real purpose. There is no substitute for midfielder who has got the attributes of a midfielder.
Like I said, I don't know if the defensive side of Fahey's game is strong enough for him to play in central midfield.
One of the first things that Trapattoni said about the games before he took over was that we were conceding too much possession and territory and the centre of the park, e.g. VS Cyprus, and bringing players like Whelan and Andrews into the side helped to shore up midfield and protect the central defensive pairing. Look at the goals conceded in the last campaign, the majority of them came from play down the wings, not through the centre. Russia were the first opposition in Trapattoni's reign to play through the centre of our midfield repeatedly in a game, almost three years after he took over.
I don't know enough about Fahey to say that playing him there would be a mistake, but I have serious doubts that it is the right thing to do. When Gibson came on last night, I said that Whelan would have to work harder than he had up to that point to cover for him, because he would stand that few yards ahead of where Green had been playing, opening space for Slovakia to play into, would starting Fahey in the centre introduce the same weakness?

Basically I don't think we have a solid enough defensive midfielder to cover for an attacking partner. Steven Reid was marked out early on as a box-to-box player by Trapattoni (go back and watch the away friendly against Norway - fantastic performance) who could play a defensive role and provide a link with the attacking four players, and we still haven't replaced him. After his last serious injury, it seems to me that the decision was made that guarding against a loss with two defensive players was a better option given the squad options available to use than playing someone like Andy Reid in midfield and trying to create a chance from the centre of the park.

As for Reid's eventual replacement, it might be McCarthy, Meyler, Wilson or even Clifford, it could even be A.N.Other playing DDSL right now. But I don't think it's Fahey.

[paul_oshea]

It's always a bad sign when the calculator comes out and we haven't even reached 1/2 way yet.

Time to smell the coffee Tets, 2 defensive midfielders is not working for us, it is as dead as the dodo.
Moving pieces around the board won't give it real purpose. There is no substitute for midfielder who has got the attributes of a midfielder.

Geysir, ive noticed a change in direction(thinking and mindset) from you also.

Perhaps tets, meant in terms of the way trap looks at things as oppossed to his own side of things i.e. fahey hasn't the defensive ability that trap requires for CM.

[Billsthoughts]

I don't know if the defensive side of Fahey's game would be enough for him to play in centre midfield. If he did play there, I'd like to see him behind the main striker with 2 defensive players behind him.
I think Fahey in central midfield would be fine. He can control and pass the ball. he also wants the ball as opposed to want to get rid of the ball. The game drifted away form us last nite when we started handing the Slovaks the ball. How many times did Mageady ,Green and Kilbane give the ball to Slovakia under very little pressure. I doubt passing the ball to the opposition is Trapps tactic.

[paul_oshea]

Basically I don't think we have a solid enough defensive midfielder to cover for an attacking partner. Steven Reid was marked out early on as a box-to-box player by Trapattoni (go back and watch the away friendly against Norway - fantastic performance) who could play a defensive role and provide a link with the attacking four players, and we still haven't replaced him. After his last serious injury, it seems to me that the decision was made that guarding against a loss with two defensive players was a better option given the squad options available to use than playing someone like Andy Reid in midfield and trying to create a chance from the centre of the park.



he still played whelan with reid......

[tetsujin1979]

he still played whelan with reid......
Reid had a good balance between attack and midfield, receiving the ball from defence, passing it out and driving forward for a return ball, and then getting back to cover. Has Fahey got that same work rate?