Bohs fans to loan club money?

[Dodge]

I don't think any club has ever been in this bad a position in this country.

Depends how you define "this bad". In terms of overall debt, probably not. But Bohs do have dalymount as a far greater asset than previous cases.

If Bohs survive (and I hope and think they will), then they're obviously not in as bad a position as all the clubs who have folded. Remember tha before licensing loads of clubs simply folded and re-started.

[pineapple stu]

I suppose I should have qualified that by saying "any current club". Which takes out a lot of worse clubs kind of by definition.

Obviously, I hope Bohs survive. But lack of cash kills businesses, not lack of assets. I can see them folding sometime next year because they don't have the cash to repay Zurich - that's why I think the statement that they don't expect to sell the ground for seven years is so concerning, and that's why I reckon they're in a worse state than any LoI club previously.

They can't go into examinership and wipe their debts. They can't have a massive Drogheda-like fundraiser to clear debts (cos they're too big). Even Shels had actually sold their ground and, it seems, didn't have interest payments or repayments to worry about.

And obviously, if they folded, I'm sure they'd reform and maybe even play out of Dalyer while its future got sorted out. But I can genuinely see them going under.

[CMcC]

Obviously, I hope Bohs survive.

I dont think that is obvious at all.

[White Horse]

In a buoyant property market, Bohs would not be in trouble.

In the current market, their main asset cannot yield them cash to fund their debts.

Their difficulties are quite different to other clubs who have experienced trouble in the last couple of years. However, when one looks at the business environment today, companies are going to the wall with the same type of liquidity problems as Bohs.

[geysir]

How does this €1,000 loan work?
The club member goes in to the bank, signs a paper and €1000 is transferred to Bohs' account. Bohs take care of the loan - offpayments/interest. If Bohs collapse, the lender can go back (with full legal right) to the club member to recover any difference?

[Dodge]

Why do you think there a bank involved? Bohs don't care how their lenders get the money

They hope some one with money to spare, gives it to them. IN return they'll pay that person 5% per annum (inflation adjustable) and repay the capital sum when bohs sell dalymount

When rovers asked for its members to pay its membership fees for 5 and 10 years in advance, at least they had already arranged finance with a bank (and of course, those who paid in advance were likely to pay anyway)

[geysir]

I got the idea from the Indo article but I was very open to being mistaken:)
From the Indo,
"the club has a major asset in Dalymount Park and loans to Bohemian FC will be secured by charge on that property under a trust deed."

I see now that Bohs don't care where the club member gets the money from. And that "loans to Bohs" is not referring to a members' bank loan, but referring only to the loan from the member to the club and being "secured" by the club's asset.

[pineapple stu]

Depending on paperwork and formality, this -


If Bohs collapse, the lender can go back (with full legal right) to the club member to recover any difference?
- should still be correct though. If Bohs collapse, and when Dalymount sells, the lender would be entitled to be repaid from the proceeds.

I think Dodge may have misinterpreted where you see the bank fitting into things. There's no bank on Bohs' side arranging the deal, but yeah, the person giving the loan may be taking a loan out to cover it. Similar to what Drogheda did last year.

[Spudulika]

I read the Indo article again and checked the Bohs forum, this is alot more disconcerting than I thought. I understand all the terms being uttered and how it all works, though what is worrying is that they have arrived here to soon. I would have thought, with a little foresight and planning, that a proper investment fund could be set up to keep things going. I know it would be set against future income, though it does raise the question - will they have enough to last through the off season if they don't win the league? And will they be able to offload players for next season?

[Dodge]

But its not mandatory. Thats the point I was making.

(And I had it confirmed frm a Bohs mate after asking earlier in the thread, Bohs did actually ask members to get loans (from banks) on their behalf before)

[geysir]

I sorta thought (more a delusion) that Bohs had made some arrangement with a lender, so that the members could queue up (in their hundreds) and sign a bit of paper as a second guarantor for a €1,000 loan, but to be secured first on Bohs' assets.

[GGAJD]

I read the Indo article again and checked the Bohs forum, this is alot more disconcerting than I thought. I understand all the terms being uttered and how it all works, though what is worrying is that they have arrived here to soon. I would have thought, with a little foresight and planning, that a proper investment fund could be set up to keep things going. I know it would be set against future income, though it does raise the question - will they have enough to last through the off season if they don't win the league? And will they be able to offload players for next season?

They're main problem is far too immediate to wait until a proper investment strategy can be formed, because they now seem to be out of cashflow. The newly launched scheme has no upper or lower limit as in they'll take the coins you'd find down the back of your sofa right now and include you as a creditor. They're contractual obligations for next year for players and staff are huge. The top earners who took a pay cut last year did so with the previso of a six month extention to their contracts, which actually makes them more money than if they hadn't taken the cut. So they're still under contract until next July, I'm not sure if the 9 or 10 players they signed this year got a two year deal, obviously if they did then thats more owed, the first instalment of the Zurich loan is due in January, although I have heard that Albion may take that on in return for the ownership of the car park, no quotes, just what I heard from a gypo mate.
Even if they win the league and the cup and have CL monies to look forward to, I don't believe that will see them through to the start of next season, unless all contracted players and staff agree to just walk away with nothing and I'd doubt that would happen. Maybe if they promise them money when Dalyer is sold in 2017, could be a runner.
Unfortunately for the genuine fans of the club who've been workin hard to avoid this tragedy, it looks quite possible that they'll be following a bohs 2011 or afc boez team or something playing in the first division next year. It's a horrible situation for the fans but reality had to bite down there sometime.

[Spudulika]

Christ, that's worse than I thought! Though I'm sure that somehow it'll be worked out, at least I hope so.

On a related point, and this is something a Bohs fan or someone close to one knows the answer to: did the staff and players refuse to play TNS without reciving their bonuses or payments?

[geysir]

I half remember a story about the Dundalk players (Flanagan at the head?) having a serious enough stand-off with the chairman at the Airport prior to departure to some place.... Yugoslavia?
I think the chairman caved in and paid up the salaries owed.

[Martinho II]

I half remember a story about the Dundalk players (Flanagan at the head?) having a serious enough stand-off with the chairman at the Airport prior to departure to some place.... Yugoslavia?
I think the chairman caved in and paid up the salaries owed.


how long ago did this happen geysir?

[Spudulika]

That was going over to play Varteks in Croatia, at least it sounds like the story I was told over there. I was in the country by chance and drove up to the game - glorious sunshine and the fans enjoying the weather, and local brew!

It was 2002.

[placid casual]

One thing bohs are better at than Rovers it seems is their boycott from this s.ite.:shut:

[SkStu]

CmcC is a bohs fan. So is dalymountrower. Both have commented on this thread. Now i have.

What do you want Bohs fans to say exactly?

[sundance kid]

Maybe acknowledging that as a members club you all presided over and voted for ridiculous plans that are ultimately going to bankrupt your own club, all in the name of chasing the European dream and getting "4 in a row". And to think of all the guffawing you all did when shels/ollie byrne did the same thing. It's your club and as a members club you all take the blame, not just cuffe, conway and the rest of the buffoons you all elected.

[SkStu]

thought so.

[oriel]

how long ago did this happen geysir?

This was in 1977, Dundalk beat Hajuk Spilt 1-0 at home, I think infront of 5,000, so the players knew the club took in decent money, a mexican standoff of some sort did indeed take place in Dublin airport.

Jackie McManus was one of the players, I think he was the captain, other mentioned was Terry Flanagan, unsure of exact details and how it was resolved, but both players left shortly afterwards if I remember correctly.

[White Horse]

This was in 1977, Dundalk beat Hajuk Spilt 1-0 at home, I think infront of 5,000, so the players knew the club took in decent money, a mexican standoff of some sort did indeed take place in Dublin airport.

Jackie McManus was one of the players, I think he was the captain, other mentioned was Terry Flanagan, unsure of exact details and how it was resolved, but both players left shortly afterwards if I remember correctly.

You got the gist of it.

Dundalk's woe began even before they left to travel to the airport. In previous European games Dundalk reimbursed players loss of wages. As this would have resulted in varying amounts of money being paid out this time Dundalk offered lump sums. On the previous Friday night Tommy McConville and Tony Cavanagh approached the board to have their dole money reimbursed. This was refused on the grounds that the players were already been "well done by" with the good "spending money" that they were offered. The matter was raised again in Dublin airport as the team assembled to depart for Split. There were many different versions of what actually happened but a number of players including club captain Jackie McManus and Player's Union representative Mick Lawlor also got involved. After a lot of discussion McConville and Cavanagh agreed to travel without getting their wish. But the Club chairman Oliver Quinn informed both players that they were not welcome on the plane. The club released an official statement "Due to a serious breach of club discipline, prior to departure at Dublin airport, two players, Tommy McConville and Tony Cavanagh, did not travel". A young Martin Lawlor got his break into the first team squad as a result. Unfortunately the ramifications were serious for a number of players. Tony Cavanagh was never to play for Dundalk again, Tommy McConville appeared to be have been "sacked" but made an apology to the club and was back playing again by November, and Jackie McManus who got caught up in the discussion in the airport played his last game for the club in Split and was transferred to Drogheda United.

http://www.dundalkfc.com/dundalkfcweb/History/EuroNights/Europe_77Split.htm

[Spudulika]

Thanks White Horse, I thought it was the later version. That Dundalk team did a great job home and away, almost putting out one of the best sides to play for Hajduk. It was 0-0 at half time in Split too.

[OneRedArmy]

Maybe acknowledging that as a members club you all presided over and voted for ridiculous plans that are ultimately going to bankrupt your own club, all in the name of chasing the European dream and getting "4 in a row". And to think of all the guffawing you all did when shels/ollie byrne did the same thing. It's your club and as a members club you all take the blame, not just cuffe, conway and the rest of the buffoons you all elected.In fairness, unless you know how the Bohs fans on here voted you can't really tar them all with the same brush.

Although Derry City isn't and wasn't a members club, in similar circumstances some of the shareholders did dissent, repeatedly and got short shrift.

By all means castigate the majority of chumps who accepted what they were being told, but I wouldn't use that to damn 100% of fans.

[Réiteoir]

Maybe acknowledging that as a members club you all presided over and voted for ridiculous plans that are ultimately going to bankrupt your own club, all in the name of chasing the European dream and getting "4 in a row". And to think of all the guffawing you all did when shels/ollie byrne did the same thing. It's your club and as a members club you all take the blame, not just cuffe, conway and the rest of the buffoons you all elected.

Nothing worse than a smug soapbox pontificator

[HulaHoop]

Nothing worse than a smug soapbox pontificator

Oh the irony.....

[Mr A]

The Indo does mention bank loans, even though the Bohs statement did not: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/cashstrapped-bohs-look-to-fans-for-bankloan-bailout-2359055.html

[sundance kid]

Nothing worse than a smug soapbox pontificator

Maybe its more to do with years of "The Big Club", and "We are Invincible" all being paid for with money you didn't have.
The bottom line is that the turkeys voted for christmas, and now they're crying because Santa showed up with a smile on his face, a packet of paxo, and a meat cleaver.

[marinobohs]

Maybe its more to do with years of "The Big Club", and "We are Invincible" all being paid for with money you didn't have.
The bottom line is that the turkeys voted for christmas, and now they're crying because Santa showed up with a smile on his face, a packet of paxo, and a meat cleaver.

Jeez you have it bad ! Did you have this fixation with all clubs that were in trouble (Shels, Shams, Drogs, Cork etc) or is it just a Bohs thing ? years of "the big club" and "we are invincible" ? if you took/take footie chants that seriously you have bigger problems than Bohs do :rolleyes:

[Dodge]

Jeez you have it bad ! Did you have this fixation with all clubs that were in trouble (Shels, Shams, Drogs, Cork etc) or is it just a Bohs thing ? years of "the big club" and "we are invincible" ? if you took/take footie chants that seriously you have bigger problems than Bohs do :rolleyes:

maybe you should treat internet posts as you'd like him to treat football chants then

[passerrby]

Jeez you have it bad ! Did you have this fixation with all clubs that were in trouble (Shels, Shams, Drogs, Cork etc) or is it just a Bohs thing ? years of "the big club" and "we are invincible" ? if you took/take footie chants that seriously you have bigger problems than Bohs do :rolleyes:

sorry marino but is this not the ultimate i told you so moment and coming from the so called small club perspective every time i hear of one of the super clubs in financial difficulty it brings a smile to my face, sorry but thats life if clubs had a superiority complex then its only to be expected that we all will have a giggle when these clubs are sliding down the slippery pole.
also this situation helps to show to the fai that there master plan is full of holes.

[bholg]

also this situation helps to show to the fai that there master plan is full of holes.

There's a plan?

[marinobohs]

sorry marino but is this not the ultimate i told you so moment and coming from the so called small club perspective every time i hear of one of the super clubs in financial difficulty it brings a smile to my face, sorry but thats life if clubs had a superiority complex then its only to be expected that we all will have a giggle when these clubs are sliding down the slippery pole.
also this situation helps to show to the fai that there master plan is full of holes.

No probs, Passerby, if what you want is a small league of small clubs (Your masterplan ???) I understand how frustrating it is for teams that have won little/nothing for years because for most of my time supporting Bohs that was us !
Enjoyed the last decade of (relative) success and accept it may be a while (if ever) before we enjoy anything like it again. i would suggest that if Mons come up (and I hope they do) that your fans would not be adverse to a throphy or two, and would not thank your board for scrimping on achieving that.
All football fans seek success and in doing so often gamble recklessly. Dont blame people at so called "smaller clubs" (hate the term though) enjoying "super club" (another despisable term) difficulties. As regards the superiority thing, well i guess thats us Dubs knowing we are better :rolleyes:

Dalymount or the Phoneix Park i will still be watching Bohs next season and the memories of the last ten years will certainly help if it is the latter.

[SkStu]

i dont know why posters want me to come on here and apologise for what has gone on with the club. I have nothing to apologise for. The club has nothing to apologise for other than to its own fans for the predicament we are currently in. We certainly owe no apologies or explanations to random posters engaging in an orgasmic bout of schadenfreude. I get where Passerby is coming from. I dont blame ANYONE if it brings a smile to their face. When i was younger and more immature, Rovers and Shels capitulations brought a smile to my face. Yeah we sang some chants that got on peoples nerves, yeah we won some titles with money that we didnt really have but life will go on with Bohs or without. If that floats yer boat, enjoy the moment. It will pass and it will be someone else pretty soon. Enjoy that one too.

When it came to Galway, Drogs, Cork and Derry (and i was a little bit older and wiser), i sympathised greatly with the fans here and what they were going through at the time. Its not their fault. I didnt expect apologies from them. Outside this community nobody really gives a flying one so when we're gloating and enjoying the demise we're really not doing ourselves any favours in the bigger picture.

Anyway, long story short - enjoy the moment.

[Dodge]

Dont blame people at so called "smaller clubs" (hate the term though) enjoying "super club" (another despisable term)

A despicable term that no one but yourself has used. Even your false modesty has delusions of grandeur

[Model Club]

No point feeling sorry for yourself now Stu!
The reason that people seem to be gloating at your demise is not because you are bohs or because of terrace chants and merchandise proclaiming to be "the big club".Id say its because everyone and I mean everyone in LOI circles seen this situatiuon coming,not just today or yesterday but for the guts of 2 years,while posters on here proclaimed all was rosy......,roll on 2,3,4 in a row.

FWIW most LOI people(including the vast majority of Roves fans) dont want to see bohs fold.A few years rolling around div. 1 should put your feet firmly on the ground with a stable future-obviously this depends on the fans stepping up to the plate.

The goal for me as LOI fan is a level playing field across the board-Where big clubs can claim to be so with pride because they deserve such a title through bums on seats and all the advertising and exposure this brings.This coupled with clued in transparent people in charge of individual clubs with the FAI firmly pulling the strings is the best we can hope for, short term anyway.

[SkStu]

No point feeling sorry for yourself now Stu!
.

im really not.

[passerrby]

No probs, Passerby, if what you want is a small league of small clubs (Your masterplan ???) I understand how frustrating it is for teams that have won little/nothing for years because for most of my time supporting Bohs that was us !
Enjoyed the last decade of (relative) success and accept it may be a while (if ever) before we enjoy anything like it again. i would suggest that if Mons come up (and I hope they do) that your fans would not be adverse to a throphy or two, and would not thank your board for scrimping on achieving that.
All football fans seek success and in doing so often gamble recklessly. Dont blame people at so called "smaller clubs" (hate the term though) enjoying "super club" (another despisable term) difficulties. As regards the superiority thing, well i guess thats us Dubs knowing we are better :rolleyes:

Dalymount or the Phoneix Park i will still be watching Bohs next season and the memories of the last ten years will certainly help if it is the latter.

thats just my point I want a sustainable league not one of boom and bust, i want one that does not see financial prudance as as unambishous, and ive been told for years that it is clubs like us who hold the league back when it is clubs who give the tabloids there bad headlines that hold us back.
I would love a full time professional league even if my club was not part of it but not one club has shown that that is acheivable
oh and i am not gloating at your impending misfortunes

[marinobohs]

A despicable term that no one but yourself has used. Even your false modesty has delusions of grandeur

The context of my use of "small club" and "super club" was in responing to passerby who used those terms in his post - the one I quoted.
Guess in the throes of my modesty/delusions of grandeur moment (neither intended) i presumed posters might actually read posts rather than attempt to make smart comments. Guess I overestimated some posters, mea culpa.

[marinobohs]

thats just my point I want a sustainable league not one of boom and bust, i want one that does not see financial prudance as as unambishous, and ive been told for years that it is clubs like us who hold the league back when it is clubs who give the tabloids there bad headlines that hold us back.
I would love a full time professional league even if my club was not part of it but not one club has shown that that is acheivable
oh and i am not gloating at your impending misfortunes

Dont think most would argue with any of that PB, like world peace and the eradicaton of hunger it is very laudable but unlikely anytime soon. Unless european football authorities get serious about finances (and am not holding my breath on that) I cannot see much changing. There will always be clubs overspending to chase whatever "dream" scenario rocks their particular boat - happens in most european leagues. While it doesnt make it right it shows how voluntarism is unlikely to lead to clubs seeing sense.

BTW great result for Mons on Friday night, hope we are both playing in Prem division next season :o