Paul Doolin Appointed Ireland U18 & U19 Manager

[John83]

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=101276:doolin-appointed-u18-and-u19-head-coach&catid=4:under-19&Itemid=12

Yes folks, the man who brought UCD's youth development to its knees is back. I'm just thrilled. :monkey:

[pineapple stu]

Delighted cos it means Rusty won't be getting the job.

Not at all surprised that the FAI haven't a notion what they're doing.

[geysir]

I guess you won't be naming the Bowl after him.
How do you think he will do? He sounds ambitious.

[Charlie Darwin]

He's gonna be in for a shock when he realises he can't go out and buy anyone he wants with imaginary money.

[John83]

I guess you won't be naming the Bowl after him.
How do you think he will do? He sounds ambitious.
I think that he will one day be held up as an example, along with Don Givens, of how it's possible for an Irish youth manager to become the object of the kind of hatred usually reserved for kiddy fiddling priests and the kind of people who write text messages in the cinema.

[geysir]

He's gonna be in for a shock when he realises he can't go out and buy anyone he wants with imaginary money.

He managed Drogheda and Cork, he has the top UEFA coaching license. Leaving aside possible bad memories, rivalries, jealousies - is there anything left for objective assessment? :) Is he potentially a good manager for the youth teams?

[DeNiro]

No, he won't get the respect of young, overpaid, egotistical professionals. He never even played professionally. It will be a carbon copy of the situation that happened with Kerr and the senior team. Crazy appointment.

[Charlie Darwin]

Kerr had everybody's respect in the beginning for his managerial achievements. He lost it because of his coaching style and lack of success.


He managed Drogheda and Cork, he has the top UEFA coaching license. Leaving aside possible bad memories, rivalries, jealousies - is there anything left for objective assessment? :) Is he potentially a good manager for the youth teams?
He's a good manager but he left UCD in a bad position and then walked out on both Drogs and Cork when the going got tough financially. It'd be interesting to see if he has the bottle for it if he loses a few on the bounce (likely given our youth teams' records), but his teams always played decent football.

[John83]

He's a good manager
He's a cheque-book manager.


but he left UCD in a bad positionHe left us umpteen points adrift at the foot of the table, unable to field a youth team and then had the gall to blame Pete Mahon for our relegation after damn near letting us catch his Drogheda in a show of incompetence I've yet to see rivalled.


and then walked out on both Drogs and Cork when the going got tough financially.As it tends to do when you're buying success.


It'd be interesting to see if he has the bottle for it if he loses a few on the bounce (likely given our youth teams' records),It'll be fascinating to see whether his habit of jumping ship or the FAI's of sticking with losing coaches will win out.


but his teams always played decent football.No, they didn't. They hoofed for all they were worth. Even when that was multiples of what the club could afford.

[osarusan]

but his teams always played decent football.
I think Cork fans will tell you that they most definitely didn't play decent football, they just thumped the ball up the pitch.

[Alf Honn]

The spin begins in the first sentence...

Doolin brings a wealth of experience to the role and takes up the position with immediate effect.

Is this experience in dealing with elite 18 and 19 year olds? No

Experience of managing at international level, perhaps? Hardly glowing, considering his one match so far ended in defeat to a team of players from the fifth tier of English football.

Maybe the Fai got sloppy seconds if the rumour is true that Rusty got cold feet late in the day about leaving Belfield for the job.

[Predator]

Experience of managing at international level, perhaps? Hardly glowing, considering his one match so far ended in defeat to a team of players from the fifth tier of English football.He also managed the 23s versus the senior training camp squad and gave them a good game.

[Razors left peg]

just like the appointment of Noel King for the u21s it stinks of just jobs for the boys again.

[tetsujin1979]

was interviewed on Off The Ball earlier, should be on the listen back service in the morning.

[Charlie Darwin]

just like the appointment of Noel King for the u21s it stinks of just jobs for the boys again.
King just brought an Irish underage team to the quarter finals of a World Cup. I was critical of his appointment at the time but that's some achievement.

Doolin doesn't have anything like that but he's hardly an FAI careerist. All of his management until this year has been at club level.

[Longfordian]

Not so sure it's jobs for the boys, more who can we get for the salary on offer. If he's on less than McCaffrey was on or even the same, he's not costing much. *didn't hear that from me*

[bennocelt]

but his teams always played decent football.

Ha ha that's funny, you seriously believe this!!!

[pineapple stu]

Doolin doesn't have anything like that but he's hardly an FAI careerist. All of his management until this year has been at club level.
I suppose you have to start being a careerist somewhere. Remember he is the U-23 manager as well. Before that, Fenlon was given the job while he was in between Derry and Bohs. I'm not so sure this isn't about looking after "the boys". But that's just a hunch; maybe even cynicism that the managers who keep getting the big-spending jobs in the league are clearly among the worst ones (Doolin and Fenlon basically), and there must be something more to that than pure idiocy.

However, that's an aside. The single most worrying aspect of this is Doolin's previous record managing young players. He didn't give a fig about UCD's youth system; he preferred to buy players like Richie Purdy or Greg O'Dowd (who, while I'm sure were good in their day - both league winners after all - were both past it while at UCD). When he did dab his hand in signing young players, he signed Barry Andrews - generally cited as our worst ever player - without ever seeing him play on the basis that he'd once been with QPR and Leyton Orient.

Even more than that, we actually scratched a 21s team game under him because we didn't have enough players. Not even crap players; just didn't have enough players full stop. Look at UCD's underage record - this year, for example, we're as good as in the A League final and as good as in the U-20s quarter final - and you'll see what a remarkable achievement it is that someone disregarded a youth set-up so much as to have UCD scratch a 21s game. More than that, when Doolin jumped ship and Mahon took over, there was an immediate surge in confidence in our young players; I remember Pat Jennings in particular being transformed almost overnight. Doolin simply can't work with young players. And this person is now in charge of the national underage set-up?! Ridiculous.

But that's just by way of an analysis of the appointment. It suits me, and I think in time, he'll be seen as the new Don Givens.

[Mr A]

Hopefully this works out, but I have no confidence in Doolin whatsoever.

[Badhands]

I think its a great appointment. He is a young Irish manager who is one of the highest qualified managers in the league. I will admit he does not set up his teams to play like Barcelona but he does get results. Remember even with the troubles in Cork he got them to finish 3rd thier highest league position in years.

I have heard it said that he is not the most popular manager in the league from players but that is usually due to a firm attitude and not taking crap from players, however i believe all of them say he is a great coach.

I think that he should at least be given a chance rather then calling him the next Don Givens!

[Stuttgart88]

just like the appointment of Noel King for the u21s it stinks of just jobs for the boys again.Exactly. They should give it to a Dutchman. That'd be met with unanimous approval. Keep Irish people way from Irish football, that's what I say. And foreigners.

[Razors left peg]

Exactly. They should give it to a Dutchman. That'd be met with unanimous approval. Keep Irish people way from Irish football, that's what I say. And foreigners.

Im far from against Irish fellas gettin the jobs, in fact Im on record plenty of times on this forum saying that I wanted an ex irish international of the likes of Kenny Cunningham to get the u21 job when it became availible because I wanted someone in the job with ambition to get results, learn international management and someday move into the senior job. My problem with Noel Kings appointment was that he had a career as a LOI manager without any success and spent the best part of 10 years with the womens teams without any success until this year.Now, yes he has done very well with the u17 girls but I dont think that has any bearing on how he might manage young professional players with massive egos.... but he made a good start and now he is in the job I want him to do well.

Doolin might not have been a career FAI man but he was certainally part of the "in" crowd in FAI circles from his job as u23 manager. I dont have a particular preference for who should have got the job but Doolin has a very poor record as others have pointed out so I dont understand what made him stand out above other candidates if it wasnt his friendship with people within the FAI Boys Club

[geysir]

I have only seen Drogheda a few times under Doolin and they were decently set up. I didn't see them play aimless hoof ball.
Against Kiev away they were very nicely set up.
I don't buy the 'buy success' to explain the success. Subjective opinions about past events has jack all relevance now. He has the job and we have a fair idea of the standard of the players and what's acceptable re game and results. He has the chance to prove himself in that environment.
The u17s were all right at the Finals under McCaffrey, I have little doubt that he got the best out of them, well organised, 5 in the middle, one up front and a fierce work rate but the technically superior teams were in another class. These are issues that face a youth international manager. The kids are already being coached elsewhere. His job is to organise them into as effective a team as is possible.

[micls]

He managed Drogheda and Cork,
Roddy managed Bohs, Rovers etc etc. What's your point?

he has the top UEFA coaching license.
Which proves he can go to courses and write essays

Leaving aside possible bad memories, rivalries, jealousies - is there anything left for objective assessment? :) Is he potentially a good manager for the youth teams?

The bad memories are because we had to go through him managing us!

With us, he brought through as few youth players as possible and bought a team, which is his form., I dont see how he is in any way qualified for this position.


He's a good manager
Is he?

but his teams always played decent football.

:D :D
Okay, Step 1-Stop taking the drugs, Step 2-rethink that comment.

Even people who liked him as a manager because of success(no one in Cork but some in Drogheda) would never claim his teams played decent football. Unless by decent football you mean be solid defensively and hoof the ball towards the other goal....

[pineapple stu]

I don't buy the 'buy success' to explain the success.
Are you saying that a club's budget is entirely irrelevant to how well they do?


Subjective opinions about past events has jack all relevance now.
What about the facts relating to his previous involvement in youth development which have been presented? Do they have jack all relevance now? Cos your post makes it seem as if they are.


The kids are already being coached elsewhere. His job is to organise them into as effective a team as is possible.
I think this logic - basically downplaying the importance of the manager - was utterly disspelled when Stan was in charge of the senior team.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't think G is downplaying the role of the manager, quite the opposite actually. The coaching of these players is the role of their club coaches, and the general coaching system in Ireland. The team manager's job is to get the best out of them when they play together for the national selection. Stan wasn't any good at this.

[micls]

But Doolins main attribute has been that he's a good coach....his biggest problem has been most don't see that this translates into being a good manager..

[pineapple stu]

I don't think he's a good coach either, by the way.

[micls]

Players seem to think he is, maybe more in a fitness sense than footballing though. I'm not sure

[geysir]

Are you saying that a club's budget is entirely irrelevant to how well they do?
No, not all all.

What about the facts relating to his previous involvement in youth development which have been presented? Do they have jack all relevance now? Cos your post makes it seem as if they are.
I have a different definition of what is considered a fact. Nevertheless I don't dispute any of the accounts here.
And I suppose the events in Doolin's life from the past have a relevance to Doolin in the now, in as much as anybodies past experiences help shape their lives.

I think this logic - basically downplaying the importance of the manager - was utterly disspelled when Stan was in charge of the senior team.
Stutts has understood my meaning and answered that part well.

[ifk101]

I have only seen Drogheda a few times under Doolin and they were decently set up. I didn't see them play aimless hoof ball.
Against Kiev away they were very nicely set up.

How were they set up? Just out of interest.

[passinginterest]

Players seem to think he is, maybe more in a fitness sense than footballing though. I'm not sure

I've heard the same thing about his coaching sessions being enjoyed by the players. Always involving the ball which should suit young international players.

Definitely a negative manager though and as has been pointed out he has no track record with youth players. I wouldn't write him off completely but he certainly has a lot to prove.

[Alf Honn]

The question is whether there is someone better qualified and capable than Doolin of doing this job.

Imho there are plenty of Irish coaches more worthy, notably Pat Fenlon.

He's had international experience as a player (with 18s, 21s, B etc) and managed the 23s for a few games.

His record of silverware is unrivalled in the modern era and while budgets may have been kind to him at Shels and Bohs, he's shown a keen eye for developing quality talent during their late teens such as Wes Hoolohan and Gary Deegan and more recently Paddy Madden and Gary Burke.

Sadly, in this country, the FAI don't employ people whose opinion differs to theirs and Nutsy probably didn't even apply because he'd have no chance on that basis.

Aside from him, Stephen Kenny, Alan Matthews and Martin Russell over here plus Curtis Fleming in England have a lot better credentials than Doolin. Seing as the FAI place such an emphasis on Doolin's pro licence, they all have it too.

[pineapple stu]

The FAI have already employed Nutsy; he was the previous U-23 manager.

I don't think you can overlook his tenure at Derry though; granted, they weren't exactly tight spenders, but I think it's a large blot for Fenlon.

[Alf Honn]

Why's that relevant? Kerr had worked for the FAI under Tuohy before his second stint years later.

[pineapple stu]

I was replying to your bit where you said -


Sadly, in this country, the FAI don't employ people whose opinion differs to theirs and Nutsy probably didn't even apply because he'd have no chance on that basis.
But the fact is that the FAI have employed Nutsy before.

[Alf Honn]

I was replying to your bit where you said -


But the fact is that the FAI have employed Nutsy before.


Sure they did, as I referred to in the original post about the 23s. But the minute he started becoming vocal about controversial matters such as Brian Murphy not getting a senior call-up, referees and the League Cup final being held in Waterford, he was blacklisted.

[Charlie Darwin]

I suppose you have to start being a careerist somewhere. Remember he is the U-23 manager as well. Before that, Fenlon was given the job while he was in between Derry and Bohs. I'm not so sure this isn't about looking after "the boys". But that's just a hunch; maybe even cynicism that the managers who keep getting the big-spending jobs in the league are clearly among the worst ones (Doolin and Fenlon basically), and there must be something more to that than pure idiocy.
Granted, but it's hard not to groan when any time anybody gets a job at any level in this country and within minutes the "careerist" charge is being leveled. I wouldn't rule it out considering he has this talent for getting jobs despite having left his previous club in the lurch but I like to at least give people a chance.


However, that's an aside. The single most worrying aspect of this is Doolin's previous record managing young players. He didn't give a fig about UCD's youth system; he preferred to buy players like Richie Purdy or Greg O'Dowd (who, while I'm sure were good in their day - both league winners after all - were both past it while at UCD). When he did dab his hand in signing young players, he signed Barry Andrews - generally cited as our worst ever player - without ever seeing him play on the basis that he'd once been with QPR and Leyton Orient.

Even more than that, we actually scratched a 21s team game under him because we didn't have enough players. Not even crap players; just didn't have enough players full stop. Look at UCD's underage record - this year, for example, we're as good as in the A League final and as good as in the U-20s quarter final - and you'll see what a remarkable achievement it is that someone disregarded a youth set-up so much as to have UCD scratch a 21s game. More than that, when Doolin jumped ship and Mahon took over, there was an immediate surge in confidence in our young players; I remember Pat Jennings in particular being transformed almost overnight. Doolin simply can't work with young players. And this person is now in charge of the national underage set-up?! Ridiculous.

But that's just by way of an analysis of the appointment. It suits me, and I think in time, he'll be seen as the new Don Givens.
This is a much more valid point and I can't really comment much since the ins and outs of UCD's youth system are beyond my scope of knowledge. It is a worry but he's shown with decent players at his disposal he can play winning football.

[micls]

It is a worry but he's shown with decent players at his disposal he can play winning football.
At least you've gone from decent football to winning football.....

I suppose Drogheda might have gotten their money's worth, but he can't buy anyone he wants for the Irish teams. He's going to have to make do with what's available

[Stuttgart88]

Does Fenlon not already have a job? What was Doolin doing before this appointment?

[Alf Honn]

Does Fenlon not already have a job? What was Doolin doing before this appointment?

Bohemians = secure full-time employment? Don't think so.

[SkStu]

Does Fenlon not already have a job?

the answer to your question is yes.

I want to say good luck to Doolin. I wish him the best and it is good to see a good League man get a chance at a decent level again.

[Charlie Darwin]

At least you've gone from decent football to winning football.....
I changed because people kept taking issue with it :p

The "hoof ball" accusations are leveled at Bohs and Rovers all the time. The only logical conclusion is that the LOI is so awful that the only way to win it is by whacking the ball up to giants like Paddy Madden and Gary Twigg.

[micls]

I changed because people kept taking issue with it :p

The "hoof ball" accusations are leveled at Bohs and Rovers all the time. The only logical conclusion is that the LOI is so awful that the only way to win it is by whacking the ball up to giants like Paddy Madden and Gary Twigg.

Seriously have you ever seen a Doolin team play? We have, we had to watch it for months. In fact he gave his own views on the matter when he claimed 'There's a stupidness down here, they want to see good football'. And we didnt even get the winning part....e drew most home games.

Over the last few years I've seen Bohs play some sublime football, havn't seen enough of Rovers this year to comment on their style but I doubt they're as bad as a Doolin team.

[Predator]

Interview with Doolin in the Independent: Doolin to focus on winning mentality (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/doolin-to-focus-on-winning-mentality-2351225.html)

I know the vast majority of you have written Doolin off already, but I suppose if there is any positive to be taken from Doolin's appointment, it is that he is keen to win games.

NEWLY-APPOINTED Ireland U-18 and U-19 head coach Paul Doolin has thrown down the gauntlet to his players by declaring that winning matches is the biggest challenge he faces -- and dismisses the notion that underage international football is just about developing individuals.
The former Drogheda United manager was unveiled as Sean McCaffrey's successor yesterday at FAI headquarters, having signed a two-year contract.
And in stark contrast to the controversial views of former Ireland U-21 manager Don Givens, Doolin immediately laid out his plans to lead his teams to the finals of major tournaments and concentrate on the winning aspect -- rather than solely fostering players for senior success.
"I think at international level, it would be easy for me to say that it's just about developing players, but it's not only about that.
"You have to have a winning mentality," said the Dubliner.
"If you're maybe improving as a player but not winning games that doesn't help, there has to be a winning element.
"I certainly do believe that you have to be winning and qualifying for tournaments."
Doolin was appointed after an interview process with the FAI's High Performance Director Wim Koevermans -- and the four-time League of Ireland winning player has a Dutch influence of his own, having travelled to Holland a number of times to visit two-time European U-21 winning manager with the Netherlands, Foppe de Haan.
He believes those experiences have had a huge influence on his managerial career and will continue to do so as he takes on another Ireland international job -- Doolin is also the Ireland U-23 manager.
"Foppe de Haan was very friendly with Tony O'Neill and used to come over to UCD while I was there," he explained.
"He invited me over (to the Netherlands) because he had been coming to Dublin regularly -- and it was probably the worst thing he ever did because I've been back about five times since. I've been to a couple of clubs there.
"It was a great experience -- he was a very open man. It was a huge help, because, no matter what you say, it's totally different when you start off in coaching.
"Down through the years when I started doing coaching badges, those weeks I spent in Holland trying to educate myself in terms of football and physical training -- hopefully, that improved me. There's no doubt this is a new challenge for me now, but I'm looking forward to it."

[irishfan86]

Well, I don't know much about him, but the fact that he is willing to look at other countries for footballing insight is encouraging.

[pineapple stu]

I suppose if there is any positive to be taken from Doolin's appointment, it is that he is keen to win games.
Seriously, are we scraping the barrel so much already that a manager "keen to win games" is a positive?!

[tetsujin1979]

Seriously, are we scraping the barrel so much already that a manager "keen to win games" is a positive?!

can't be any worse than the case where "my job is to prepare players for the senior team" is a acceptable excuse for repeated failure

[Predator]

Seriously, are we scraping the barrel so much already that a manager "keen to win games" is a positive?!I think it's a positive, yes. Winning, after all, is the aim of the game. In my opinion, if you build a successful team at youth level, while it is not guaranteed, it's more likely that that success will carry on to senior level.

[pineapple stu]

It's not a positive. It's something that should be taken as read. You may as well take it as a positive that he's keen to keep breathing.