UEFA Champions League 2010-11

[geysir]

Van de Sar wouldn't mind a penalty shoot out, though it wouldn't be same without a JT to psyche out.

Does O'Shea not have a chance of starting?

[Closed Account 2]

I can't believe how much tickets are costing for this game, if you dont get them in the ballot (which was expensive enough anyway) and want to go you know you usually have to pay over the odds, but some of the prices on those re-sale sites are absurd, way more than a season ticket at some of the most expensive clubs.

[Stuttgart88]

I think Barca are the better team and should win, but if you look back on the 2009 final, United really should have gone ahead early on. If United score first it could be interesting. I worry about David Villa's form and think Rooney and Hernandez have more goals in them. A bad decision may also swing it United's way.

I predict Barcelona, but am not wholly convinced.

[shakermaker1982]

United 1 nil. Hernandez.

I just hope Giggs is not distracted. Carrick folds under pressure so United need a big performance from Giggs in central midfield.

[bennocelt]

UTD 2 Barca 1

Rooney, giggs and messi

[Closed Account 2]

Someone sent me this, I'm pretty sure I've got all the answers

All answers involve finals within the last 10 years…

1) Last Brazilian to score in a CL final ?

2) Last German to score in a CL final?

3) Last Czech outfield player to play in a CL final?

4) Last Russian to play in a CL final?

5) Last team to play in a final that had to qualify via a play-off (before the group stage) ?

6) Which year saw 2 Australian players named in the final squads (team or bench)? Name the players ?

7) Which recent West Ham player played 12 mins in a CL final?

8) Which player played 24 mins in a CL final and then played for Leeds the season after?

[DeLorean]

All answers involve finals within the last 10 years…

1) Last Brazilian to score in a CL final ? Your man for Barca against Arsenal, played with Chelsea but name escapes me at the minute and I don't want to google!! Begins with B I think.

2) Last German to score in a CL final? Effenburg v Valencia??

3) Last Czech outfield player to play in a CL final? Smicer 2005??

4) Last Russian to play in a CL final? No idea

5) Last team to play in a final that had to qualify via a play-off (before the group stage) ? I know United had to qualify in 99 but that's not in the last ten years??

6) Which year saw 2 Australian players named in the final squads (team or bench)? Name the players ? No idea

7) Which recent West Ham player played 12 mins in a CL final? No idea

8) Which player played 24 mins in a CL final and then played for Leeds the season after?No idea

Poor enough return really!!

Edit- Belletti for No.1

[Closed Account 2]

Correct on 1 & 2, but 3 isnt Smicer and 5 isnt Man Utd in 1999

A very, very cryptic clue for 5, which probably won't help anyone is "A river runs through it".

[Stuttgart88]

Czech player: Jankulowski? Ujfalusi?

Russian: Did Zhirkov play in 2008?

[Closed Account 2]

Yeah it's Jankulovski in 2007 for Milan, the other one isn't Zhirkov, I'll give you a clue he is also the last Russian to score in a CL final.

[Dodge]

The Australians are Kewell for Liverpool and the Sub keeper for Milan in their final. Don't know name

Alenichev (Porto) is the Russian. Think he's the only Russian to win it

Is Roque junior the Leeds player?

[Closed Account 2]

yeah all correct, Zeljko Kalac was the name of the keeper...

[Closed Account 2]

ramaining answers were:

5) Barca in 2008-9, they finished 3rd the previous season and so played Wisla (as in the River) Krakow in the play off.

7) Benni McCarthy

[geysir]

Totally expected victory for Barca, but lovely to watch.

[Closed Account 2]

I felt Man Utd started well for the first 10 mins or so then Barca got more and more of the ball - it was like 2009 all over again. I think a lot of Utd's midfield went missing, Giggs, Carrick and Valencia didn't do much Park had to cover the ground for 3 midfielders so was spent after about 50 mins. It also meant Rooney had to drop back a lot more to try and win the ball leaving Hernandez on his own up front (I think that's when Fergie got in an argument with Rooney on the touch line). It's like watching an Ireland match with Robbie Keane dropping back to pick up the ball and leaving Doyle on his own. Evra's position was a bit suspect to be honest, Fabio and Vidic had good games but I think their midfield needs a bit of replacement.

[geysir]

Thats a very Man U centric match review. Most of the worthwhile action came from Barca and van de Sar :)

[bennocelt]

I felt Man Utd started well for the first 10 mins or so then Barca got more and more of the ball - it was like 2009 all over again. I think a lot of Utd's midfield went missing, Giggs, Carrick and Valencia didn't do much Park had to cover the ground for 3 midfielders so was spent after about 50 mins. It also meant Rooney had to drop back a lot more to try and win the ball leaving Hernandez on his own up front (I think that's when Fergie got in an argument with Rooney on the touch line). It's like watching an Ireland match with Robbie Keane dropping back to pick up the ball and leaving Doyle on his own. Evra's position was a bit suspect to be honest, Fabio and Vidic had good games but I think their midfield needs a bit of replacement.

Spot on Edmundo
Think its now time that Fergie stopped his silly game of trying to prove that Carrick was worth all the money he gave (and got;)) by playing him constantly. He is useless, a big hole in the centre of the pitch.
Good game last night, and one can see the difference a good referee can make - no messing from the barca players this time cause they knew it wouldnt be accepted.
And it still isnt the best team i have seen in the CL - Ajax, Ac Milan and the other Barca team (the one with the good defence!):D

[Angus]

OK - have been driven to this. Can we please bloody well stop this "Barcelona playacting" thing ? Have I just woken up from a Bobby Ewing dream and imagined the last 10 years ? For years all english teams, including Man U have had a designated diver.

The "jump over the keeper and leave your hind leg to deliberately touch the keeper thereby creating "contact"" was invented by Zola, perfected by Owen and adopted by all english teams. Gerrard dives all the time - Drogba dives - and the hall of OT fame in this regard runs from Van Nistlerooy through Beckham, the Hall of Fame Champion Ronaldo, Rooney and Hernendez, all of whom routinely dive.

As for the Man U charge of trying to influence the referee - that is a charge that is so ridiculous that responding to it is a waste of time. Ignorance.

Yes Barca and Real Madrid was a disgrace and they should all be embarrassed for what happened. But can we please stop engaging in this proxy (yes, proxy) English jingoistic, foreigners all dive and they don't like it up 'em nonsense

Utterly pathetic

[Stuttgart88]

Well said Angus. I nearly had a fit when Gary Neville on SKY warned that these foreigners' diving antics would be something that United should be aware of.

Owen and Gerrard were masters of the art. Well, actually Gerrard has been outed a few times but it's an "inconvenient truth" that doesn't get aired. A blatant dive against Bolton at Anfield last year incredibly escaped a yellow, and even escaped a mention from the commentator. Gerrard's dive against Hungary at Wembley about 5 years ago drew laughs from the commentary. Rooney dived to win the penalty that ended Arsenal's 49-game unbeaten run. I'm still not sure about the athenticity of Gerrard's penalty in Istanbul in 2005 but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that one.

I actually think players can be forgiven for the odd dive. But repeatedly diving, or tolerating diving, whilst bitching about others doing it is rank hypocrisy.

PS: anyone see Marcus Horan pretending to have been hit in yesterday's game at Thomond?

[bennocelt]

Ye guys must be looking at a different game to me then - compare barca's semi to man utd? Enough said!:rolleyes:

[Stuttgart88]

Barca's semi was atrocious. No argument.

United have never been as bad as that, but they have had their divers and many other English (and English based) are prone to a dive. So Gary Neville's comments were either inaccurate or more than a bit hypocritical.

[bennocelt]

Yeah a few(1/2) players here and there but not games littered with diving -Apart from Nani I cant think of any other united player who dives a lot? Barca - nearly them all except Messi.

[geysir]

Barca did struggle to impress their beautiful game against a team employing dirty cynical tactics like Madrid, but no doubting about Barca's utter superiority over Madrid.
Overall CL performances - Barca one zillion passes completed, some of the most brilliant goals scored this year, the perfection of an original characteristic attacking style, especially by the superb players of this generation, Iniesta, Xavi and Messi.
All culminating with a total domination and a second humiliation of a Man U team, in a CL final.

[bennocelt]

Agree Geysir, but they still have a very dodgy back 4,lol!

[Angus]

Yeah a few(1/2) players here and there but not games littered with diving -Apart from Nani I cant think of any other united player who dives a lot? Barca - nearly them all except Messi.

Really ? Go to YouTube and type in "Rooney diving"

[bennocelt]

Really ? Go to YouTube and type in "Rooney diving"

Whole matches ruined by diving left right and centre - goggle that then!:rolleyes:

[ArdeeBhoy]

Rooney used to dive a lot. And still does for all I know. But once again, their 'great white hope' didn't really show up.

Regardless of diving, a red herring in this game, thankfully Barca were light years ahead in their passing and movement and were worthy winners.

Ultimately, Man.U. were lucky to even get the one.

[OwlsFan]

Predictions League

10 OwlsFan
9 Shakermaker
9 Bennocelt
7 Gustavo
6 Cfdh Edmundo
6 Delorean

Whooohuu. Ok, so I was the only one continuing to predict but as Alex Fergusons would say "herdie huudie, referee, hoodie, boy rooney, aye, mumble, delighted".

[Stuttgart88]

That's a bit like Sepp Blatter declaring himself the winner of the FIFA presidency election. Maybe Owls fan has a career as a football administrator beckoning.

[jbyrne]

PS: anyone see Marcus Horan pretending to have been hit in yesterday's game at Thomond?

yes, was about 10 metres away in the stand. embarrassing!

[Closed Account 2]

Thats a very Man U centric match review. Most of the worthwhile action came from Barca and van de Sar :)

Well it's just where I think the game was won and lost, in midfield.


Spot on Edmundo
Think its now time that Fergie stopped his silly game of trying to prove that Carrick was worth all the money he gave (and got;)) by playing him constantly. He is useless, a big hole in the centre of the pitch.
Good game last night, and one can see the difference a good referee can make - no messing from the barca players this time cause they knew it wouldnt be accepted.
And it still isnt the best team i have seen in the CL - Ajax, Ac Milan and the other Barca team (the one with the good defence!):D

Carrick is one of these players who can look good against average players, but against top opposition I just don't think he's good enough. He can't adapt his game to win possession, he isn't really a ball winner and there were no ball winners in that team the other night. I would have been tempted to play someone like Anderson or, even if he wasn't 100%, Darren Feltcher. Giggs as a central midfielder was a strange one too, I think he would have been more effective out wide, even if he'd just played a 50-60 mins. If Hargreaves hadnt got injured, he could have been the sort of central midfielder they could have used to shackle Barca's midfield. I think if Man City played barca, with the likes of De Jong in midfield, would be able to snuff out much of Barca's threat, in the same way Motta and Cambiasso squeezed them in the semi final in April 2010.

[Shilts]

A lot of talk in the papers was about how Fergie will regroup over the summer and make new signings and challange Barca next time out.
However, in 2009 they were wiped out also and this time he came out with the exact same plan.

The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different end result.



Is Fergie too proud to park the bus?
If so, then his reputation as a tactician must be seriously in question.

[old git]

A lot of talk in the papers was about how Fergie will regroup over the summer and make new signings and challange Barca next time out.
However, in 2009 they were wiped out also and this time he came out with the exact same plan.

The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different end result.



Is Fergie too proud to park the bus?
If so, then his reputation as a tactician must be seriously in question.

i dont think utd have enough defensively minded players to park the bus & dont think it is an option fergie would consider. in fairness he seems to always want his teams to play in an attacking way and i would rather see that than parking the bus even if it should be parked for certain games.

[DeLorean]

United parked the bus at the Nou Camp in the 2008 semi final. They were sitting pretty deep in the return leg also. They tried to pack the midfield in the 2009 final also, with Carrick, Giggs and Anderson all playing central roles and Rooney on the left with Park on the right, I think. They certainly started with a 5 man midfield anyway with Ronaldo very much up front on his own. It's this year that he tried a more attacking approach, which with the players at his disposal looked the only way to go in my opinion. If he hadn't started Hernandez, for example, he would have been casting aside the system that basically ignited their season and would be suffering even more critisism right now. On reflection though, Anderson instead of Giggs was probably a no brainer.

[Closed Account 2]

Assuming Fletcher wasn't ever in contention, I would have played Valencia on one wing, Nani on the other wing, and Park and Anderson in the center. Once it became obvious Valencia was having an off day I'd have put Giggs on for him and swapped wingers (around 60 mins). If either Park or Anderson was looking spent or on a yellow I'd have brought on Scholes, but only done this after 75 mins.

I wouldn't have Carrick anywhere near a team in a Champions League final.

[DeLorean]

I wouldn't either, but the abuse he got/gets from United fans I know is ridiculous I feel. Anybody would have thought he was the deciding factor the last night, the way some people were carrying on about him. He's been at United five seasons, they've won four league titles and been in three Champions League Finals. Before he arrived they hadn't won the league in three seasons and were a million miles from a Champions League Final, getting elimated in a p!ss poor group the year before he arrived. I'm not saying he's the reason for this transformation, but I just don't believe a team could achieve that much with a complete dud in central midfield. There'll always be a scapegoat though.

[Closed Account 2]

I'll admit I havent looked at the stats at all, but I'm guessing Hargreaves was in that team in 2008 on a regular basis, when they were at their zenith. I think Carrick might be ok against a great midfield if there is a world class ball winner next to him, but he doesn't have that at Old Trafford. If Fletcher is fit and playing next to him Carrick can just about get enough possession to have a limited impact, but without him he's lost and in a central role with Giggs (who also deosnt really win the ball) alongside him it's a recipe for their entire midfield being bypassed by a stronger one.

I can understand Man Utd fans worrying about his name on the teamsheet, especially against a team where the primary strength is midfield. You need someone in there like Park (in the center) to close down their midfielders, or someone like Fletcher / Anderson who will attempt a tackle. Defensively carrick is a drifter, he can't win possession and without the ball he can't contribute anything. It would be like us playing with Andy Reid, McCarthy, Duff and McGeady, there wouldnt be a ball winner and in central areas we'd just get over-run against a passing team.

And it might be harsh to say it, but with a fully fit Hargreaves in that team instead of Carrick I think Man Utd would have had a much better chance, even with Anderson or a half fit Feltcher they would have made more of a game of it.

[geysir]

Well it's just where I think the game was won and lost, in midfield.
The game was won hands down by Barca.
When a team like Barca win a game like that, it isn't because the other team lost it to them

[Closed Account 2]

Yes, yes and a thousand other journalistic clichés, indeed no one should even bother to play Barca because since Sid Low, Henry Winter and Graham Hunter say they are invincible, we might as well award the next decade of Champions Leagues to them.

"When Barcelona want to win they win", well Inter Milan, Rubin Kazan and Arsenal have all beaten them over 90 mins in the last 18 months or so. Estudiantes, a good but not exactly overly-talented team, had them as good as beaten in Abu Dhabi. They are a beatable team, if you contain their midfield you can expose their weaknesses, especially with that goalkeeper.

[Dodge]

They've a better goalkeeper than Man Utd do now ;)

And to be fair, Sid Lowe is quick enough to criticize them.

I agree with your sentiments re Carrick though. 2009's final showed his limitations. Fletcher would be the ideal workhorse in there but he seems doomed to injury after injury.

I'm a huge Barcelona fan. i adore most of their players, but there's no doubting Ferguson's selection and tactics made it easy for them last Saturday

[DeLorean]

I'll admit I havent looked at the stats at all, but I'm guessing Hargreaves was in that team in 2008 on a regular basis, when they were at their zenith

Kind of, but not in the centre of midfield. As a huge Hargreaves fan, I found it particularly gauling that Ferguson used always have Carrick ahead of him for the second central midfield spot, alongside Scholes. In fact, Hargreaves worked his way into the teamsheet for the important games that season through his versatility to play right back at times, but more regularly on the right side of midfield, where he started the Champions League Final against Chelsea.

[Stuttgart88]

Yes, yes and a thousand other journalistic clichés, indeed no one should even bother to play Barca because since Sid Low, Henry Winter and Graham Hunter say they are invincible, we might as well award the next decade of Champions Leagues to them.

"When Barcelona want to win they win", well Inter Milan, Rubin Kazan and Arsenal have all beaten them over 90 mins in the last 18 months or so. Estudiantes, a good but not exactly overly-talented team, had them as good as beaten in Abu Dhabi. They are a beatable team, if you contain their midfield you can expose their weaknesses, especially with that goalkeeper.They were a Niclas Bendtner gilt-edged chance away from losing outright to Arsenal. Admittedly, Valdes and the referee both had a shocker in London and Barcelona equalised on Arsenal's behalf, but football is mad sometimes. Sometimes things conspire against you and it just doesn't happen.

They may not be invincible but they are a joy to watch. I know the semi was a disgrace, but it also showed a street-wiseness that countered Mourinho's "the ref is always against us and for them" pre-amble to the game.

[Roo69]

Ultimately, Man.U. were lucky to even get the one.

Why were United lucky to get one? It was a tight enough first half, wasn't a whole lot in it, Barca had more possession but were'nt a million miles better (unlike they were in the 2nd half).

[Dodge]

I think they were Roo. Far superior in the first half

Nothing lucky about the goal though. Superb move and finish

[geysir]

Yes, yes and a thousand other journalistic clichés, indeed no one should even bother to play Barca because since Sid Low, Henry Winter and Graham Hunter say they are invincible, we might as well award the next decade of Champions Leagues to them.

"When Barcelona want to win they win", well Inter Milan, Rubin Kazan and Arsenal have all beaten them over 90 mins in the last 18 months or so. Estudiantes, a good but not exactly overly-talented team, had them as good as beaten in Abu Dhabi. They are a beatable team, if you contain their midfield you can expose their weaknesses, especially with that goalkeeper.
I have been hearing about Barca's supposed weaknesses for years.
You are scraping the barrel with a few stats to claim that Barca are beatable - if just the other team knew how to do it.
Arsenal came close this year, but it would have been an absolute travesty if they fluked it. Sometimes it's possible.
What have you got against Barca? they are just amazing :)
Man U were played off the park, twice in the finals by them in the last 3 seasons.
Bizarre to be talking how Man U lost the game - therefore Barca won.

[DeLorean]

You are scraping the barrel with a few stats to claim that Barca are beatable - if just the other team knew how to do it

I don't really think it's is scraping the bottom of the barrel though. Inter Milan did it last year and Chelsea were within a few seconds or even a more favourable refereeing decision of doing it the year before. Even Real Madrid's plan, until Pepe's sending off, was working to a point in the semi final. United's tactics/team selection fell a long way short on two occasions now, more so than all of the other big teams that Barca played in the last couple of seasons. It's surely worth examining what they could have done differently at least. Barcelona are sheer class and deserve all the praise they get, but they're not flawless or invincible, even if they did look it on Saturday night.

[Closed Account 2]

I have been hearing about Barca's supposed weaknesses for years.
You are scraping the barrel with a few stats to claim that Barca are beatable - if just the other team knew how to do it.
Arsenal came close this year, but it would have been an absolute travesty if they fluked it. Sometimes it's possible.
What have you got against Barca? they are just amazing :)
Man U were played off the park, twice in the finals by them in the last 3 seasons.
Bizarre to be talking how Man U lost the game - therefore Barca won.

I'm fairly certain your wumming here but none the less I'll try and spell it out for you:

ARE BARCA BEATABLE?:

I say yes (and cite examples of said defeats - not merely "stats" - over the last 18 months)
You seem to say no (going on your second line).

No team in the world is unbeatable, but you seem to think otherwise.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't really think it's is scraping the bottom of the barrel though. Inter Milan did it last year and Chelsea were within a few seconds or even a more favourable refereeing decision of doing it the year before. Even Real Madrid's plan, until Pepe's sending off, was working to a point in the semi final. United's tactics/team selection fell a long way short on two occasions now, more so than all of the other big teams that Barca played in the last couple of seasons. It's surely worth examining what they could have done differently at least. Barcelona are sheer class and deserve all the praise they get, but they're not flawless or invincible, even if they did look it on Saturday night.No team is unbeatable.

The Inter result last year was a travesty. The ref got two match changing calls totally wrong and a third arguably wrong - all against Barcelona. Barca got lucky against Chelsea alright but that was two years ago. The team has grown since then. I agree with Souness - they are the best teanm I have ever seen. It remains to be seen if it turns into a dynastly like Real, Ajax, Liverpool and Milan (to alesser extent) but in absolute terms they're the best ever imho.

[bennocelt]

All depends on your viewpoint
Im the kind of guy who loves quality defending - That Ac Milan team had Franco Baresi, Maldini and Costacurta, Rijkard, Gullit and van basten with his scissor kicks from outside the box - quality. That barca team have a huge hole in defence and a wobbly goalie. (I have yet to see a defender as good as Baresi)

[Dodge]

BTW when everyone's fit barca don't have a 'huge' hole in defence. Valdes is one of the top 10 keepers in the world, Pique and Puyol are the best partnership. Abidal is a great left back (now...) and Alves does his defensive work ok too.

I'm not saying they're better than that Milan team (best I've seen) but they're certainly not the shambles some make them out to be