View Full Version : Justin Barrett
As he's thinking of standing on an anti-immigrant platform for the european parliament. Anyone going to vote for him? :(
A face
26/04/2004, 9:21 PM
Justin Barrett (http://www.geocities.com/irishafa/news.html)
As he's thinking of standing on an anti-immigrant platform for the european parliament. Anyone going to vote for him? :(
Well people vote for the McDowell and the PD's. And Noel O'Flynn got elected in Cork on essentially such a platform....
The Right's No to Nice figurehead, the Left stayed well clear.....
Éanna
27/04/2004, 10:49 AM
And Noel O'Flynn got elected in Cork on essentially such a platform....
O'Flynn is a racist redneck and the fact that people in my constituency elected him sickens me. I look forward to seeing him at my door.
Justin Barrett. Ah yes, the No to Nice figurehead...
I'm sure I speak for many when I say that my biggest worry when I voted against Nice was being on the same side of the argument as people with views such as he is alleged to have.
dahamsta
27/04/2004, 11:21 AM
Éanna, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but for the record you're opening yourself (and me) up to a lawsuit there.
adam
Another cheap anti-FF shot I'm afraid, Macy.
Or a justified jab at a Government that is stirring up a hornets nest in time for the elections? IMO it's opened the door for anti-immigration candidates...
eoinh
27/04/2004, 11:25 AM
Éanna, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but for the record you're opening yourself (and me) up to a lawsuit there.
adam
I dont know about that. The irish times (if you follow the link above) has (with different language admitally) virtually said the same thing. They claim he has links with Nazi sympathisers.
What frightens me is that he might get elected!
dahamsta
27/04/2004, 11:51 AM
I wouldn't worry about Barrett, I was talking more about Éanna's statement about O'Flynn. It's a very direct statement.
adam
Éanna
27/04/2004, 11:51 AM
I have no time for Noel O'Flynn myself.
But to pretend bigotry is the preserve of FF/PD's ignores the facts.
Anyone remember Enda Kenny's famous 'joke'?
Or what about Emmett Stagg's views on the travelling community?
Another cheap anti-FF shot I'm afraid, Macy.
No-one would pretend that FF/PD's are the only ones at all. I think the whole Enda "charisma" Kenny thing was just stupidity rather than racism. Its abig probelm across the spectrum really.
Éanna, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but for the record you're opening yourself (and me) up to a lawsuit there.
I edited it, but I remember seeing footage on RTE of a parade of some flags/banners of a rather dubious german nationalist persuasion which he was shown to have attended.
As evidenced by the quote from the Irish Times on the website A face linked to:
The video of the rally leaves little room for doubt as to what Germany's extreme right-wing National Democratic Party stands for.
Anti-semitic speeches are peppered with quotes from Adolf Hitler. There are claims that "Germany was the biggest victim of the second World War". Hundreds of skinheads give standing ovations to elderly Nazis.
Mr Justin Barrett, chief spokesman for the No to Nice Campaign and a leading light in Youth Defence, the anti-abortion group, is a guest of honour.
And just for the record, being on the same side of any argument as the likes of Youth Defence and other christo-fascists goes against everything i believe in too
Paddy Ramone
27/04/2004, 1:35 PM
As he's thinking of standing on an anti-immigrant platform for the european parliament. Anyone going to vote for him? :(
He''ll get my first preference without a doubt. I'm thinking of setting up a new political party and I am inviting him to join along with Alan Hunter the voice of Irish soccer.
Our manifesto is will be as follows.
1. The Laws of Germany.
2. Be Nice to mammy.
3. Don't talk to commies.
4. Eat kosher salamis.
Today Leinster, Tomorrow the World!
Paddy Ramone
27/04/2004, 1:47 PM
Anyone remember Enda Kenny's famous 'joke'?
Not pro-FF myself despite allegations but isn't Barrett an ex-Blueshirt.
WeAreRovers
27/04/2004, 2:01 PM
He''ll get my first preference without a doubt. I'm thinking of setting up a new political party and I am inviting him to join along with Alan Hunter the voice of Irish soccer.
Our manifesto is will be as follows.
1. The Laws of Germany.
2. Be Nice to mammy.
3. Don't talk to commies.
4. Eat kosher salamis.
Today Leinster, Tomorrow the World!
Paddy, you have my vote! At last a political party with a sensible manifesto. :)
Gabba Gabba Hey
KOH
Its times like this you worry about Proportional Representation.
We should have democr\ary for those who deserve it...*
*Those who agree somewhat with me....
Paddy Ramone
27/04/2004, 2:40 PM
Paddy, you have my vote! At last a political party with a sensible manifesto. :)
Gabba Gabba Hey
KOH
HEY HO! LET'S GO!
Paddy Ramone
27/04/2004, 3:02 PM
Its times like this you worry about Proportional Representation.
We should have democr\ary for those who deserve it...*
*Those who agree somewhat with me....
I don't like democracy. I'm against it!
I don't like democracy. I'm against it!
Thats ok then...
brendy_éire
27/04/2004, 3:51 PM
Its times like this you worry about Proportional Representation.
We should have democr\ary for those who deserve it...
PR is grand, it gives smaller parties a voice. We should have democracy, full stop. Unfortunately we don't have it yet.
Besdies, you can't exclude someone from a democracy because you don't agree with their views. You can exclude them when they violate incitement to hatred laws.
Democracy doesn't work properly because it has one major flaw. It lets idiots vote, hence our government
brendy_éire
28/04/2004, 8:59 AM
Democracy doesn't work properly because it has one major flaw. It lets idiots vote, hence our government
They're not idiots, they're just coerced into voting for certain parties.
christybhoy
28/04/2004, 10:25 AM
They're not idiots, they're just coerced into voting for certain parties.
Brendy,
How can you claim that democracy works in one sentence
and then claim that people are coerced into voting?
Surely this is a contradiction!
:confused:
Paddy Ramone
28/04/2004, 10:49 AM
Thats ok then...
Gabba gabba, we accept you, one of us.
They're not idiots, they're just coerced into voting for certain parties.
no, they're definitely idiots. they're not coerced, they're just too stupid to think for themselves and decide otherwise
brendy_éire
28/04/2004, 6:40 PM
How can you claim that democracy works in one sentence and then claim that people are coerced into voting?
Éanna was on about our 'democracy'. In a true democracy, people wouldn't be coerced.
no, they're definitely idiots. they're not coerced, they're just too stupid to think for themselves and decide otherwise
It's a bit insulting to call them idiots. The people who vote for FF, the PDs and your man Barrett (is there much difference between them really? ;)) do so because they've been won over by the propaganda. It's a bit hard to resist it when it's being forced upon ye constantly.
I'd prefer the term 'misguided' as opposed to 'idiots'. ;)
The people who vote for FF, the PDs and your man Barrett (is there much difference between them really? ;)) do so because they've been won over by the propaganda. It's a bit hard to resist it when it's being forced upon ye constantly.
Propaganda? Brings me back to the point I made a few weeks ago - you basically say the electorate is coerced in to voting for the other parties, because your party is incapable of getting it's message across. That's your own parties fault, not the "systems".
Yes, the electorate are thick - when the next election comes around, people who said "never again" will still vote FF (or for their right wingers the PD's)because their great grandad/ grandad/ father always did. The major problem with Irish politics is still the fúckin Civil War.
As valid an argument as suggesting that people only vote left wing because of the involvement of James Connolly in the 1916 Rising. Or is this another 'people on the left wing are smarter and more perceptive' argument?
Coming from the "Republican Party"? There's only one party that still plays on the Civil War? Having said that, I did mean to include FG in that as well, as ultimately there is little policy difference between FF and FG (a lot of moral differences IMO, but that's been done to death). The Civil War hasn't never allowed Ireland to develop a "proper" system - the two main parties aren't really that different on policy. They're both right of centre.
brendy_éire
29/04/2004, 9:27 AM
Propaganda? Brings me back to the point I made a few weeks ago - you basically say the electorate is coerced in to voting for the other parties, because your party is incapable of getting it's message across. That's your own parties fault, not the "systems".
I say the electorate is coerced into voting for parties because of advertising and constant media coverage. The CPI ultimately would like to do that, problem is FF, FG et all have tons more cash, so are better at it. As I've said before, the CPI isn't perfect, but the system is most definately stiffling the party.
Yes, the electorate are thick - when the next election comes around, people who said "never again" will still vote FF (or for their right wingers the PD's)because their great grandad/ grandad/ father always did. The major problem with Irish politics is still the fúckin Civil War.
Is that really the case? Does everyone here vote for the same parties as their parents? I know I don't.
I don't think ye can blame the success of FF and FG on the Civil War alone. Tons, if not most, countries have had civil wars and get over them. Maybe it's harder for us because of the lack of full independence, but surely people have moved on? (I realise that I'm not in the best position to comment on attitudes of people from the south, so I'm assuming a bit here)
Brendy_eire - Have you ever been to a country that has had a communist system and asked them what they thought of it!
Go visit Romania for gods sake.
brendy_éire
29/04/2004, 10:10 AM
Brendy_eire - Have you ever been to a country that has had a communist system and asked them what they thought of it!
Don't want to get into this again, but there has never been a Communist country.
But as you argue to Brendy_Eire that the failures of the Communist Party here are due to their own ineptitude in getting the message across, perhaps the suggestion that the left wing/Labour Party cannot make any inroads in what you perceive are civil war politics is an indictment of the left wing too...
Wouldn't necessarily disagree totally, but I suppose it's what has the stronger emotional pull for people. Is it their left wing tendency's, or the civil war, or a basic need for power for the sake of it?
[QUOTE=brendy_éire]I don't think ye can blame the success of FF and FG on the Civil War alone. Tons, if not most, countries have had civil wars and get over them. Maybe it's harder for us because of the lack of full independence, but surely people have moved on?[QUOTE]
I would contend that most countries that have had civil war based on ethnic backgrounds still vote on those grounds. But also, a hell of a lot of civil wars are based on politics, rather than ours which was over an oath. Maybe Conor can answer why he's FF? Was it his own decision or family background? (For the record my family wouldn't be traditional Labour/left supporters)
Don't want to get into this again, but there has never been a Communist country.
Been reading stuff lately suggesting countries either open or closed. It just happens that most "commies" are closed. Open society would mean freedom of expression, open government etc... The USA could be said to be moving towards a closed society under Dubya.
Should be IQ test or something before people get a vote in Democracy to protect people from themselves.
eoinh
29/04/2004, 11:28 AM
To digress.....
Did anybody see the people of Mayo sticking up for Beverly Cooper Flynn. I was highly disgusted by it.
1) She was encouraging people to break the law and 2) By helping these people it meant that the ordinary joe soap had to pay more taxs because of this avoidance.
Why isnt this woman going to jail. Surely incitement to break the law should carry a jail term?
eoinh
29/04/2004, 11:47 AM
This woman is a lawmaker.
Cooper-Flynn will have to be expelled from the whole FF party, no excuses.
I think its actually good to have idiots like Barrett up for election as a good chance to expose them instead of having similar minded people hiding amoung the main political parties.
Yes, the electorate are thick - when the next election comes around, people who said "never again" will still vote FF (or for their right wingers the PD's)because their great grandad/ grandad/ father always did. The major problem with Irish politics is still the fúckin Civil War.
couldn't agree more.
I call them idiots because any sane right-thinking individual can see right through FF, FG and all the other self-serving parasites in Dail Eireann
I think its actually good to have idiots like Barrett up for election as a good chance to expose them instead of having similar minded people hiding amoung the main political parties.
also true. If you only have the centre ground it can drift more and more to the extreme without people noticing. A minority voice on either extreme (left or right) keeps people on their toes. IMO, thats the best role for socialism to play in a democratic society- not as a viable alternative, but a "what if" that keeps the government on its toes
Maybe not exactly what I was thinking of. I dunno, I just think that if people see an extremist group for what it is, it puts other parties into conext and makes their decisions more informed
People will tend to vote and follow a certain party just like then follow a football team. My father took me to see City years ago, I became a City fan not because they were his team but because they became my team.
People will be brough up with values and ideals, usually from their parents/family. They will be coloured by this for the rest of their lives. Its just the way things are.
Just myself as an example. In my family one side is Labour/Anyone but FF whilst the other has been Fianna Fáil since its foundation. So I've heard contrasting ideas for years and election time in our household is always great craic. Some how over the years I've decided that FF best repersent my views, I joined the Party. Many things contribute to this, including the fact that they were part of my family tradition, but that would be one of the lesser reasons. Things like Irish Language Policy, Re-Unification of Ireland through the ballot box (without the armalite in the other hand) and certain politicians from FF who I regard as good people to speak on my behalf in the Oireachtas.
As for O'Flynn I dont like him either and a lot of people in FF hold the same view. I must look at his transfers from the last election actually, see where they went. I wonder how many went to FF.
liamon
29/04/2004, 3:57 PM
The one thing that I don't get is why each party has such a large "core vote". I change my vote willingly at every election, depending upon how I view the parties at that moment in time. This allows me to look at each party and asses their values/policies and decide if this is what I think would be good for the country. Why doesn't everyone re-evaluate the parties at each election? WHy vote FF/FG/SF coz your grandfather did?
I totally agree. She should be out on her ear. Emmett Stagg and Michael Lowry are lawmakers too (or at least potentially) and were allowed to remain after indiscretions, which I thought was wrong, so not going to argue that she should remain...
Just what is this "mania" you have about Emmett Stagg?
Who did he steal from?
Who did he defraud?
What offence did he commit?
I couldn't give a damn about Flynn and whether she is thrown out of a party or not. Its meaningless. I could get thrown out of the supporters club, will it stop me from going to the Cross or supporting City?
Surely the point here is why isn't there an immediate investigation into whether 2 offences were commited:
1. Perjury
2. Facilitating tax evasion.
Aren't both of these indictable offences?
Ummm, RTE said she was encouraging people to break the law. Furthermore, show me the bank branch that DIDN'T tell many of its customers to open an offshore account and I'll fall over. It doesn't make it right of course, and FF are spelling that out by moving to expel her, but all the banks officials across the board should be brought to book. I know people who ended up with bogus non resident accounts who didn't have a clue what the advantages were and simply signed where the bank told them to sign.
The old "sure everybody else is doing it" defence. Didn't work for Pats, shouldn't work for her either...
brendy_éire
29/04/2004, 6:42 PM
Should be IQ test or something before people get a vote in Democracy to protect people from themselves.
Interesting point to raise. Had a few debates about this recently. Don't agree at all with a test before you're allowed to vote. It could be used to exclude groups of society. For example, the middle class are usually better educated than the working class, thus more of them would pass the test. That's not fair. I agree that something needs to be done to educate and politicise the public more. IMO, voting should be made complusory, as is the case in Belgium and Australia. That would force people to pay attention to politics. Also, I'd like to see political advertising banned. This would force people to actively get involved in finding out about policies and manifestoes, instead of just sitting back and letting the ads come to them.
IMO, voting should be made complusory, as is the case in Belgium and Australia. That would force people to pay attention to politics.
What's democratic about forcing people to vote? If that system did come in you'd have to have a "none of the above" option.
Also, I'd like to see political advertising banned. This would force people to actively get involved in finding out about policies and manifestoes, instead of just sitting back and letting the ads come to them.
I'd be more concerned with getting the limits on donations held or reduced, tbh, and include tickets for functions in the overall figure per year. It helps feed the perception that politicians are corrupt...
What's democratic about forcing people to vote? If that system did come in you'd have to have a "none of the above" option.
Yeah at least now those who vote are reasonably informed.
brendy_éire
30/04/2004, 4:11 PM
What's democratic about forcing people to vote? If that system did come in you'd have to have a "none of the above" option.
But we are all part of this country, therefore we all have a civil reasonability to decide how it is run. IMO, if you feel unable to vote for any candiadate in your constituency, it's your civic duty to stand for election yourself.
Ummm, like Cooper Flynn, of course, he was not convicted. But there are offences outside the world of fraud or theft.
What I don't like about Stagg is not that in particular. It's the fact that after we all beat oursleves up for interfering with his private life, he came out with some truly shocking comments about members of the travelling community. Yet anyone on the left wing could spend hours going on and on about FF or FG and bigotry, with the prime example being in their own number.
:rolleyes:
You espouse the views of a party which is guilty of massive corruption and innumerable criminal offences, and in you attempts to tar everyone with the same brush, you flail around and come up with Emmett Stagg.
Stagg was found in an area of Dublin where rent boys are known to frequent.
(btw, you have referred to this incident a lot, does the homosexual element bother you so much?)
He made some obnoxious comments.
To a FFer this is the same as Flynn x 2, Burke, Collins, Foley, Lawlor, Flynn again et al
Thats pathetic Conor.
Instead of trying to find the specks in others eyes, have a long hard look at Mt. Everest in your own.
(btw, do you think that after telling everybody
1. how wrong they are,
2. that they didn't have a clue,
3. that "we" know more about software than anyone else
and
4. wasting €50,000,000
5. being shown to be an incompetent and arrogant fool
that Cullen should resign?
or is that only for parties with integrity and guts?)
5. being shown to be an incompetent and arrogant fool
that Cullen should resign?
He should've resigned for that reason years ago....
So up to now he's come out against Government Policy once, and totally fúcked up on electronic voting machines. Resign? He still claims he's right, and the independent experts are wrong...
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.