World Rankings

[Gather round]

Are you as pithy in real life?

Not compared to you, evidently. But let's go on the pith and compare notes.


At first glance I thought the discussion had turned to underwear!
Don't worry, both our teams will be back on the skids soon enough, probably.


But I think we have a far stronger pool of players available to us

Aye, you have a stronger pool, but in practice not that much stronger, or maybe even under-achieving. Anyway, such potential can be overstated. Wales have more players than us, and disproportionately more playing in the English Prem. Yet we've outpointed them in the last three tournaments.


And, as you know, international footballer managers such as Dick Advocaat are of the same opinion

Bully for him. The most obvious effect of Dick's boys playing Croatia reserves rather than NI's in a half-paced friendly was that they lost- against us I expect they'd have won. And so presumably improved their hopeless recent ranking.


Indeed the status/ strength an international team holds is highlighted by the quality of opposition they are able to attract for friendly games

You bet it does. On the strength of their recent hosting of Brazil's globetrotters, Estonia have really boosted their strength and status in World football. I believe they boosted their normal crowd quite a bit despite charging EU 100 at the gate.

In reality glamorous visitors- like big city centre stadia- are incidental to status and strength, frequency of qualifying for tournaments etc.


Granted this is also linked to financial clout but it's telling that the IFA's perception of what consistutes a glamour friendly is a game away to Albania

Gormless way for Kennedy to describe it. If we really must have a PR spin in IFA marketing, I'd call Albania, Montenegro etc. 'exotic' instead. In practice, NI won't play or even invite France, Spain, Germany, Argentina etc. in the foreseeable future because we'd lose money on the deal. Given a likely low crowd and high fee to the visitors.


My opinion is that both sides are fairly close, with Ireland edging it at the minute

Indeed. As this series has barely started, best to refer the WC qualifiers.


Hmm, to be fair [Geysir], or even the average Irish citizen would know about 100 times more about the Irish soccer team than yer good self! Not that it would be hard!

I think I am fair to Geysir. Merely pointing out that, in posting regularly on the NI side, he isn't typical nor representative of RoI fans here. Or, a bit more crudely, like you, me, Pred, EG, etc., he's one of the 'usual suspects' on related threads.

Obviously I support another team and don't pretend more than a passing knowledge of the Republic's side. Much of which is provded by posters here, including you ;)


it's more an objection to the status of the North of Ireland and its institutional bigotry that have existed out of its very creation

Look, we know you'd do anything to achieve a united Ireland (apart from actually live in it, maybe). But that's hardly relevant to a discussion on FIFA rankings, is it?

[EalingGreen]

In terms of ranking there always will be a basis for comparison - such is the nature of a ranking system.Unsure exactly what you mean by that.
Anyhow, whilst FIFA's Rankings have many debateable aspects, nonetheless I consider them valid to use when comparing two teams from the same Confederation, provided a long enough period is used.
And the last four years sees ROI ranked 38th in the world, with NI ranked 39th.
When he introduced the NI team into this thread, Geysir implied that ROI are clearly superior to NI, yet he adduces no credible evidence to support this.


But I think we have a far stronger pool of players available to us.Certainly "stronger", arguably "far stronger", I grant you. But football is not played on paper or on Message Boards etc, it is played on grass, where "the whole is often greater than the sum of the parts".


And, as you know, international footballer managers such as Dick Advocaat are of the same opinion."Managers" plural?
OK, Dick Advocaat didn't rate us, but so what? He may not have rated Slovakia the other week, either, before they inflicted Russia/USSR's second(?) competitive defeat in Moscow since WWII! Yet any NI fan could have told him that these days, Slovakia are stronger than they look, too.
Even the best managers can underestimate opponents to their peril, as Sir Alex Ferguson demonstrated on Tuesday by fielding a weakened team against Rangers.
And Geysir is no Sir Alex (even if he may be a Dick).


Indeed the status/ strength an international team holds is highlighted by the quality of opposition they are able to attract for friendly games. Granted this is also linked to financial clout but it's telling that the IFA's perception of what consistutes a glamour friendly is a game away to Albania. Wrong!
Unless there is some compelling footballing reason (usually as preparation for a competitive game against similar opposition - eg Chile vs NI before the World Cup Finals), "financial clout" invariably determines why Associations (not managers, btw) select opponents for friendlies.
Or why do you think eg Brazil play 95%+ of their friendlies away from home, were it not for the £1m+ appearance fee they can command, along with the financial incentive from NIKE (require to see their 'product' on display in as many markets as possible)?

The simple fact is, if NI had an 80k stadium (Croke), or even a 50k one (AVIVA) and could sell it out at high prices every time, then we'd be playing Brazil, England, Argentina etc every time, too.

Or better still, we'd be inviting giants of the game such as Scotland, Wales or, ahem, ROI, to compete in a "glamour" tournament every two years...

(Btw, no-one at the IFA ever described Albania as "glamour". Rather, when under pressure for different reasons, Kennedy promised the fans a "glamour friendly". Then when his original target fell through, it was too late to get anyone decent, since all the decent teams had already sorted their fixture list, in preparation for the forthcoming World Cup)

[ArdeeBhoy]

How do you know he's not typical? Have you done a straw poll of even 5 people??

The North only gets a mention because you accuse people of stirring (wrongly) about their ranking status. When as Geysir says correctly, we just don't care.
There are however other objectionable points about it's existence which I referred to in passing. But only to emphasise yer paranoia.
;)

And to EG, clearly in the last 25 years, Ireland has been ahead of the North in the rankings most of that time.
Though just think how much higher the average would have been with a UI team!
;)

[Gather round]

How do you know he's not typical? Have you done a straw poll of even 5 people??

Er, I read the threads. A few people (most prominently you personally, but also including Geysir and the others I mentioned) tend to dominate those on NI. No need for a straw poll, is there?


The North only gets a mention because you accuse people of stirring (wrongly) about their ranking status. When as Geysir says correctly, we just don't care

You and Geysir obviously do care, as demonstrated by posting frequently- in your case, incessantly- on the subject. Basically 'Let's take over the NI team even though it's rubbish and the fans are Orange bigots', 100-200 times per megathread.


There are however other objectionable points about it's existence which I referred to in passing. But only to emphasise yer paranoia ;)

You're the obsessive one on here, Dr Freud.


And to EG, clearly in the last 25 years, Ireland has been ahead of the North in the rankings most of that time.
Though just think how much higher the average would have been with a UI team!
;)

Are you on drugs? There's been a UI team far longer than that- supplemented by good players from beyond- yet you've qualified for one finals out of eight.

Stop trolling, troll.

[EalingGreen]

Mildly irritated as opposed to taking offence? I see, I see. I just asked whether you were being a bit hyper-sensitive.No, you wondered whether I "felt the need [sic] to be offended". For the record, I was not "offended", nor do I feel any particular "need" for same.
But if sticking up for my team when it is sneered at on a football message board makes me "hyper-sensitive", then I must be Guilty as Charged. Along with every other poster on this Board.


Sometimes, but some people are wont to be offended (irritated) at even the smallest, or vaguest, reference to their team."Some people", perhaps, but not this one.


I don't agree that that was geysir's 'clear implication'.What was it, then? And in just about every other reference he makes to the NI team?


My opinion is that both sides are fairly close, with Ireland edging it at the minute.Fine. Like NI and ROI, we're "both on the same page", then...

[The Fly]

Not compared to you, evidently. But let's go on the pith and compare notes.


Don't worry, both our teams will be back on the skids soon enough, probably.


Ba-Dum-Ch!!! ;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Er, I read the threads. A few people (most prominently you personally, but also including Geysir and the others I mentioned) tend to dominate those on NI.
If you say so.


You and Geysir obviously do care, as demonstrated by posting frequently- in your case, incessantly- on the subject. Basically 'Let's take over the NI team even though it's rubbish and the fans are Orange bigots', 100-200 times per megathread.
Wrong, as usual. My only concerns are dealing with the predictable paranoia and hypocrisy every time the North is mentioned in passing from its deluded supporters.


Are you on drugs? There's been a UI team far longer than that- supplemented by good players from beyond- yet you've qualified for one finals out of eight.

Stop trolling, troll.
Clearly the first and last sentences are both ironic and hypocritical by yer goodself. But we'll spare the finer details.

Have you bought that dictionary yet??
;)

As for a UI team, like the earlier post I made (unsurprisingly unanswered by yourself!), are you now saying the North don't exist?? Though I note they haven't (and won't) qualified in 25 years and counting.....

[youngirish]

Nothing "terrible", just a petty sneer on a Rankings thread which implied that the NI team struggles even to compare with that of the ROI, whereas the plain facts prove that our team is every bit as good* as yours.


They aren't though and have never been in the past 20 years bar a very short period of time a couple of years ago when Staunton was in charge and we were at our lowest ebb and NI were punching above their weight when both teams were about the same i.e. sh*t. Only a deluded NI fan like could claim your team was every bit as good as ours. Ask anyone in England where I believe you live if NI are as good as ROI at the moment and I'd be surprised if you could find anyone that would agree with your assertion. Anyone that knew anything about International football anyway.

The rankings are a nonsense. NI being anywhere near us in it only serves to drive that point home. How many play-offs for final competitions have you reached in all that time you're meant to be as good as us?

[Gather round]

Ba-Dum-Ch!!! ;)

Isn't he head of the UN?


They aren't though and have never been in the past 20 years bar a very short period of time a couple of years ago when Staunton was in charge and we were at our lowest ebb and NI were punching above their weight when both teams were about the same i.e. sh*t

Strictly speaking, I think we were a bit better: more points, half as many wins again, going into the second half of the 12th game with a chance to qualify as opposed to finishing 12 points behind Czechia. 'Mediocre' and 'slightly less so' would be fairer- you did still finish ahead of Slovakia in that tournament, to be fair.


The rankings are a nonsense. NI being anywhere near us in it only serves to drive that point home. How many play-offs for final competitions have you reached in all that time you're meant to be as good as us?

With you on the rankings generally, they don't reflect current real achivement because largely irrelevant recent friendlies and long-gone tournaments are included in the calculation. Actually, we aren't that near you (20th and 26th in Europe). A better comparison would be betwen you and Turkey, 14th in Europe despite even NI actually surpassing them in qualification.

But to follow up Danny I and EG's points, you either accept the rankings (in their entirety), or dismiss them like I do. They're formulaic and the formula is there for all to see, however complex. Accept it, and Gabon and Turkey are better than RoI now; South Korea and New Zealand aren't. Look over a longer period (5-15 years, say) and for much of it NI are only just behind you. However odd it looks.

[ifk101]

Certainly "stronger", arguably "far stronger", I grant you.

Fair enough.


But football is not played on paper or on Message Boards etc, it is played on grass, where "the whole is often greater than the sum of the parts".

A "good" team is a team that produces a consistent and reliable level of performance everytime. Sort of like a functioning public transport system - a tram perhaps?


He may not have rated Slovakia the other week, either,

Then again maybe he did and does.



Unless there is some compelling footballing reason (usually as preparation for a competitive game against similar opposition - eg Chile vs NI before the World Cup Finals), "financial clout" invariably determines why Associations (not managers, btw) select opponents for friendlies.

Dick Advocaat?



The simple fact is, if NI had an 80k stadium (Croke), or even a 50k one (AVIVA) and could sell it out at high prices every time, then we'd be playing Brazil, England, Argentina etc every time, too.

"If" and "could" are the key words. Idle speculation.


Or better still, we'd be inviting giants of the game such as Scotland, Wales or, ahem, ROI, to compete in a "glamour" tournament every two years...

If the IFA learns how to govern itself, the dreams of a new stadium and the hosting of glamour tournaments can be yours.


it was too late to get anyone decent, since all the decent teams had already sorted their fixture list, in preparation for the forthcoming World Cup)

Albania won the game, did they or did they not? Bit unfair to be dismissive of them like that, no?

[EalingGreen]

And to EG, clearly in the last 25 years, [Republic of] Ireland has been ahead of North[ern Ireland] in the rankings most of that time.Except that the FIFA Rankings for September 2010 don't go back 25 years, only four.

Indeed, they don't go back eg to the late 60's/early 70's, when the ROI team went 6 years (to the day) without winning a single home game, competitive or friendly (including a 20 game run where they didn't win home or away).

In fact, why stop at 35 or 40 years? If you were to go right back to 1921, when the "splitters" broke away, I suspect you'd find that our complete record compares quite respectably with yours.


Though just think how much higher the average would have been with a UI team!Who knows? The example of West & East Germany suggests it is hardly a foregone conclusion.

Anyhow, whatever the ranking if my team were subsumed into a UI team, it would still be lower than if we were subsumed into a UK team, and I most certainly don't want that, either.

No, unlike you, I'm sufficiently happy with my own team not to want to see it disappear.

It's something to do with our achieving meaningful victory against half-decent teams every now and then...

[Gather round]

If the IFA learns how to govern itself, the dreams of a new stadium and the hosting of glamour tournaments can be yours

Small countries don't need expensive vanity project stadiums. Equally, larger countries with deranged FA CEOs and a big stadium aren't necessarily any better governed. Our existing-upgraded stadium will be fine for all appropriate tournaments, thanks.

[ifk101]

Small countries don't need expensive vanity project stadiums. Equally, larger countries with deranged FA CEOs and a big stadium aren't necessarily any better governed. Our existing-upgraded stadium will be fine for all appropriate tournaments, thanks.

That's if the funding for the upgrade is forthcoming.

[Gather round]

I'm confident that it will be. Briefly, the threats to it (whether from government cutbacks generally or IFA in-fighting specifically) are outweighed by the opportunities (bigger crowds/ more income/ political credit etc.). A cost-benefit analysis, basically.

[EalingGreen]

They aren't though and have never been in the past 20 years bar a very short period of time a couple of years ago when Staunton was in charge and we were at our lowest ebb and NI were punching above their weight when both teams were about the same i.e. sh*t. Only a deluded NI fan like could claim your team was every bit as good as ours.I never said anything about "the last 20 years".

Following the publication of the most recent FIFA Rankings, which only cover the most recent four years, Geysir used this self-same Rankings Thread to insinuate that ROI are clearly superior to NI.

I pointed out that the Rankings themselves clearly disprove that.

Since then neither he, you, nor anyone else has been able to dispute that, since it is clearly, er, indisputable.

P.S. If you really do want a "stroll down Memory Lane", why not review our respective records over the last 40 years, rather than 20? You see, all being well I'll celebrate the 40th Anniversary of watching my team in a few months time. In fact, my first game saw NI knock five past Cyprus*, including a hat-trick by some bloke called George Best. Who could imagine either team scoring five in a game between Cypriot and Irish opponents these days, eh?
Still, "Long Runs the Fox", as the saying goes.


* - Oh, and it was the whole of Cyprus, too, btw



Ask anyone in England where I believe you live if NI are as good as ROI at the moment and I'd be surprised if you could find anyone that would agree with your assertion. Anyone that knew anything about International football anyway.In my long experience, most England fans know little about the ROI team and even less about the NI team, so why would I seek their opinion on either?
Christ, half of them don't seem to know much about their own team, if their insanely optimistic hopes when going into major tournament finals are anything to go by...
No, if I want to know how teams are doing, I look at their results, since they count for considerably more than opinions, informed or otherwise.


The rankings are a nonsense. NI being anywhere near us in it only serves to drive that point home.No doubt that certain aspects of the Rankings are highly contentious, including the respective weightings between Confederations, plus the relative importance given to Friendly and Competitive matches etc.
Nonetheless, when they comparing teams in the same Confederation, over a four year period, they are reliable enough (imo).


How many play-offs for final competitions have you reached in all that time you're meant to be as good as us?So that's your infallible guide then, is it? Funny, that.
I am tempted to go by how many ranking teams have been beaten in competitive games over, say, the last 8 or 9 years, but somehow I suspect that that would be no less transparent than your barometer.
No, I'll just stick to wins, draws and defeats we've had, both friendly and competitive, against a range of opponents over a suitable period.
Oh wait, I must mean the FIFA Rankings...

[Gather round]

Nonetheless, when they comparing teams in the same Confederation, over a four year period, they are reliable enough (imo)

Except that each tournament runs over two seasons, not four. The league club rankings don't aggregate last term's positions with 2008-09. Although if they did Spurs wouldn't have made the Champions League, so maybe they're not so bad after all...

[EalingGreen]

A "good" team is a team that produces a consistent and reliable level of performance everytime. Sort of like a functioning public transport system - a tram perhaps? "Consistent" and "reliable" is it? If an EPL team were to draw every game this season, they'd certainly be both. Mind you, 38 points would also likely see them relegated.
As I see it, the ROI under Trapp are certainly hard to beat, so they can't be called a "bad" team. Then again, they can't seem to win their "big" games, so they can't be called a "good" team, either. I'd say they're pretty average.
By contrast, NI have a very good home record, so cannot be deemed a "bad" team. That said, our away record is so ****-poor that we can't claim to be a good team, but put the two together and they add up to "pretty average", too.
Which is only what the Rankings reflect.
Either way, you cannot completely rule out the hopes of either team of qualifying for a major tournament, but in each case it has still got to be "odds against".
Which is only what the last few Qualifiers reflect, too.
And as regards the 2012 Euros, I would agree that the ROI have a marginally better chance of getting to Polkraine than NI, but that is only because they have a noticeably easier Group than ours.
As against that, I think they'll still struggle, unless Trapp and the players manage to shed the idea that some (many?) of the fans seem to have i.e. that they're better than they actually are.


Dick Advocaat? The fact that DA asked the Belgian FA for certain opposition does not negate my point that Associations invariably arrange Friendlies for financial reasons, since I qualified it by adding that this "rule of thumb" may occasionally be overridden by the manager on "footballing" grounds.
An illustration closer to home is that of the FAI organising so many home friendlies, on the basis that with a large stadium debt to repay, home friendlies in front of decent crowds paying high ticket prices undoubtedly bring in more money than appearance fees for away friendlies. (The same applies eg to Brazil and Argentina, only in reverse).


"If" and "could" are the key words. Idle speculation. "Hypothetical", yep, "speculative" certainly and as for "idle" - most definitely.
None of those makes it untrue, mind.


If the IFA learns how to govern itself, the dreams of a new stadium and the hosting of glamour tournaments can be yours.What was that you were saying about "idle speculation"?


Albania won the game, did they or did they not? Bit unfair to be dismissive of them like that, no?It is hardly "unfair" to decline to characterise an away friendly in Albania as "glamourous" - I was there for Christssake!
Neither does the fact that their team won make it any less "unglamourous", either. Rather, it just reflected the fact that they were poor, but we were awful.
Which experience has told me can always happen with NI, especially in away friendlies etc.
But experience also tells me that conversely (perversely?), we can also be thrilling, often when least expected, which is why I also went out to Maribor a fortnight ago.
And if you put the two together, it averages out to, well, average. However, unlike certain other teams who arrive at Average "by tram", our progress is better characterised as a "roller-coaster" ride.
And no-one ever queued up for 3 hours at Alton Towers or Disney World for a bloody tram ride!
Onwards and Upwards!

[Predator]

No, you wondered whether I "felt the need [sic] to be offended". For the record, I was not "offended", nor do I feel any particular "need" for same.OK, that's simply pedantry. My query was genuine and the implication was that you might have been somewhat hyper-sensitive. The reason I asked, is because you picked up on what geysir said (that NI have returned to the first page of the rankings) and made it out to be a 'sneer'.


But if sticking up for my team when it is sneered at on a football message board makes me "hyper-sensitive", then I must be Guilty as Charged. Along with every other poster on this Board.No, picking up on the vaguest of references to your team and making an issue out of it makes you hyper-sensitive, in my opinion.




What was it, then? And in just about every other reference he makes to the NI team?I don't know about every other reference he makes to the IFA team, but in this instance, I don't believe the implication was that Ireland are vastly superior. The statement was fairly clear and simple. It even had a bit of humour in it, I believe ('brand Ireland').


Fine. Like NI and ROI, we're "both on the same page", then...Good stuff.

[twoenz]

I always thought that the improvement in Northern Ireland's status was due to a re-drawing of the results counted and the weighting given to them in the aftermath of the 2006 World Cup? Hence Lawrie leaving as it was in his contract that he was due £2,500 for every World Ranking place that he improved NI?

[Gather round]

I always thought that the improvement in Northern Ireland's status was due to a re-drawing of the results counted and the weighting given to them in the aftermath of the 2006 World Cup? Hence Lawrie leaving as it was in his contract that he was due £2,500 for every World Ranking place that he improved NI?

I think it might be a bit simpler than that, 2NZ.

NI's competitive record before, during and after Sanchez's tenure:

EC 04: P8, W0 D3 L5 pts3. Seeded 4/5, finished 5.
WC 06: P10, W2, D3, L5 pts 9. Seeded 5/6, finished 4.
EC 08: P12, W6 D2, L4 pts 20. Seeded 6/7, finished 3.
WC 10: P10, W4, D3, L3, pts15. Seeded 3/6, finished 4.

Sanchez's part-time salary at NI: ca £125- 150k

And full-time at Fulham: ca £750k- £1 million.

[ArdeeBhoy]

So he used them as a stepping stone?
Big deal.

[elroy]

NI amaze me sometimes, they must be both very very frustrating and exhilarating to watch for their fans! They have beaten some of the top teams in recent years, Spain, Sweden, England etc, but then followed them up with results like losing to Iceland. And yet again this campaign seems to be heading the same direction, they have got a fantastic win against World Cup finalists Slovenia, but I wouldnt back them to get a win against Estonia for example.

Whereas in our case in recent years we have been particularly good at beating the lower level teams but have by and large failed to beat the top teams.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No, picking up on the vaguest of references to your team and making an issue out of it makes you hyper-sensitive, in my opinion.
I don't know about every other reference he makes to the IFA team, but in this instance, I don't believe the implication was that Ireland are vastly superior. The statement was fairly clear and simple. It even had a bit of humour in it, I believe ('brand Ireland').

Nail on head, sir. On both counts.
And backs up the points I made earlier, albeit in a more articulate fashion.

[Predator]

Nail on head, sir. On both counts.
And backs up the points I made earlier, albeit in a more articulate fashion.You flatter me AB!

[SwanVsDalton]

And if you put the two together, it averages out to, well, average. However, unlike certain other teams who arrive at Average "by tram", our progress is better characterised as a "roller-coaster" ride.
And no-one ever queued up for 3 hours at Alton Towers or Disney World for a bloody tram ride!
Onwards and Upwards!

Tram's tend to go from A-B. Rollercoasters go round in circles.

[Gather round]

So he used them as a stepping stone? Big deal

It's quite common for managers to resign international jobs for more money in English club football. See also McLeish or Hughes. Or even McCarthy (I know he was sacked, but his next full-time job must have paid more than the part-time one for the FAI).


NI amaze me sometimes, they must be both very very frustrating and exhilarating to watch for their fans! They have beaten some of the top teams in recent years, Spain, Sweden, England etc, but then followed them up with results like losing to Iceland.

Isn't almost all international football like that? You can wait six months for the next games, look forward to a trip across Europe, then see the squad playing like they've just lurched out of the pub in yet another beating.


And yet again this campaign seems to be heading the same direction, they have got a fantastic win against World Cup finalists Slovenia, but I wouldnt back them to get a win against Estonia for example

Actually this campagin is significantly different to most in the recent past, even after one game. We haven't started with a win since 2000, or beaten a bigger/ higher ranked team in an away qualifier since Euro 96.

I'd back us to beat Estonia at home. As will the bookies, probably.


Whereas in our case in recent years we have been particularly good at beating the lower level teams but have by and large failed to beat the top teams

Not quite. In the last four years you've failed to beat Montenegro (twice), Cyprus (twice) and Wales in qualifiers.


I don't know about every other reference he makes to the IFA team, but in this instance, I don't believe the implication was that Ireland are vastly superior. The statement was fairly clear and simple. It even had a bit of humour in it, I believe ('brand Ireland')

It does seem a recurring theme in Geysir's posts. Of course, EG and I may be more sensitive to digs at the NI team than you and AB, given that both of you make clear you'd like it abolished.

Good luck in boosting Brand Republic, btw. After some of our recent friendly beatings the image has been as bad as Brand Russell.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Or of course you could just ignore any posts, good or bad, alluding to the North's team rather than post the same tedious and deluded paranoid drivel on a team you barely ever see FFS!

[Stuttgart88]

Tram's tend to go from A-B. Rollercoasters go round in circles.Yeah, but then they go back from B to A again, maybe after a change of driver.

[geysir]

At least we have trams, they don't.

There was a discussion with radio (football) personalities in front of a live audience on BBC Radio 5 last evening, Newcastle or Sunderland can't remember - prob Newcastle as most of the debate was Newcastle fans making the case that they were a bigger, better and more successful club than Sunderland. Some sort of myopic obsession that makes sense to the natives.

[SwanVsDalton]

Yeah, but then they go back from B to A again, maybe after a change of driver.

As long as you get off at the right stop - say Stuttgart, Genoa, New York or Suwon - you're doing OK. Although sometimes you can fall asleep and end up back where you started....

[SwanVsDalton]

At least we have trams, they don't.

Watch out - you're in danger of sounding obsessed with the relative status of North and South transport infrastructure...

[Gather round]

There was a discussion with radio (football) personalities in front of a live audience on BBC Radio 5 last evening, Newcastle or Sunderland can't remember - prob Newcastle as most of the debate was Newcastle fans making the case that they were a bigger, better and more successful club than Sunderland. Some sort of myopic obsession that makes sense to the natives

Five Live had a day of programming from Newcastle, featuring various events including a local carnival, looking forward to the Great North Run, opening of a Cancer treatment ward by Bobby Robson's widow etc. It also gave Shearer a chance to develop his media career, showing he's rather less wooden than MotD suggests.

[geysir]

Watch out - you're in danger of sounding obsessed with the relative status of North and South transport infrastructure...
Then I would have remarked that we were more of an A station as opposed to a B.

Sure the South has to build the A5 so you Derry wans can drive in comfort towards the sanctity of God's own land.

[SwanVsDalton]

Then I would have remarked that we were more of an A station as opposed to a B.

Sure the South has to build the A5 so you Derry wans can drive in comfort towards the sanctity of God's own land.

What? Aughnacloy?

No, we are thankful it'll take us 20 minutes quicker to get to the traffic jam at the Port Tunnel. But in fairness the A5 is being built in the loved-up spirit of North/South financial co-operation. Though Conor Murray probably has to put up with jibes about superior transport 'ranking' every time they have a meeting.

[geysir]

I´ll have you know, there's many an ol' dear still bless themselves as soon as they cross over into the Holy Land.

[geysir]

I implore the board members when referring to the OWC, to use words such as "plucky" and "gritty".
And now to the all so sensitive FIFA Rankings.
Just like the drinker who regains his place at the bar after falling off his stool while experiencing the tranquilizing effect that hits in after 13 pints, you are not supposed to pass a blind bit of notice. The worst thing another drinker at the bar can say is "are you alright" as the fallen drinker regains his place on the barstool. The same applies to the OWC should they fall off their perch on the first page of the all so important FIFA rankings and slither down to page 2. When they manage to clamber back up to page 1 after "gritty" and "plucky" performances, we are not supposed to notice. The worst thing you can say is "good to see you back" - and never say "enjoy your time here".
Some of you who have actually visited the OWC discussion board might be a bit confused, that we should bend over backwards to be so diplomatic when they indulge in so much vitriol directed at the FAI and our team. Well the thing is, all that vitriol is justified, they are right - therefore they can.

[EalingGreen]

I implore the board members when referring to the OWC, to use words such as "plucky" and "gritty". Post whatever you like; personally I'd just be content to see us referred to as "Northern Ireland" ("NI" for short) - it fits in well with "Republic of Ireland" ("ROI") after all.


And now to the all so sensitive FIFA Rankings.
Just like the drinker who regains his place at the bar after falling off his stool while experiencing the tranquilizing effect that hits in after 13 pints, you are not supposed to pass a blind bit of notice. The worst thing another drinker at the bar can say is "are you alright" as the fallen drinker regains his place on the barstool. The same applies to the OWC should they fall off their perch on the first page of the all so important FIFA rankings and slither down to page 2. When they manage to clamber back up to page 1 after "gritty" and "plucky" performances, we are not supposed to notice. The worst thing you can say is "good to see you back" - and never say "enjoy your time here".Hilarious.
Still, now you are back on the subject of the Rankings, have you any comment on the point I made in an earlier post, namely:

"... between September 2006 and September 2010, ROI's High/Low Rankings have been 26/51, whereas NI's equivalent is 27/59. More pertinently, ROI's Average Ranking during that period is 38.2, with NI's being 39.3"

I take that to demonstrate that in recent years, there has been damn-all to choose between the respective quality of the two teams i.e. decidedly average.
By contrast, you clearly have a sense of superiority: care to explain?


Some of you who have actually visited the OWC discussion board might be a bit confused, that we should bend over backwards to be so diplomatic when they indulge in so much vitriol directed at the FAI and our team. Well the thing is, all that vitriol is justified, they are right - therefore they can.How ironic that you should sneer at OWC posters for displaying vitriol towards the ROI, when you yourself can never forbear from expressing similar vitriol towards NI on this Board at every turn.
Even worse, rank hypocrisy may be added to your "charge sheet" After all, you protest loudly that you are not even interested in the NI team, yet you were the one who dragged our team/ranking etc into the thread in the first place!

Oh well, I suppose it all helps build your collection of "Thanks" from Ardee Bhoy...:rolleyes:

[Sullivinho]

Up one place to 32 in the latest rankings:

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/lastranking/gender=m/fullranking.html

Russia into the top 10.

[The Fly]

By contrast, you clearly have a sense of superiority: care to explain?


Because, whatever the debate about which is the better team, there is no debate about which is the 'bigger' team.

[EalingGreen]

Because, whatever the debate about which is the better team, there is no debate about which is the 'bigger' team.Aye, and Liverpool are a "bigger" team than Everton, which must be a great comfort to the red half of Merseyside after Sunday's embarrassment.

Late News Flash: Experts have just confirmed that Canada is a bigger country than China, but not so big as Russia.

[The Fly]

Aye, and Liverpool are a "bigger" team than Everton, which must be a great comfort to the red half of Merseyside after Sunday's embarrassment.

Late News Flash: Experts have just confirmed that Canada is a bigger country than China, but not so big as Russia.

Read Dick Advocaat's remarks regarding the arrangement of a friendly against 'Ireland'.

Kinda sums up my point.....don't ya think? :D

[EalingGreen]

Read Dick Advocaat's remarks regarding the arrangement of a friendly against 'Ireland'.

Kinda sums up my point.....don't ya think? :DOn the contrary. Iirc, Dick said he preferred to play ROI over NI because they were a "better test" (i.e. better team) for Belgium than NI.

Fine, that's his opinion.

But as more recent results have indicated and the Rankings reflect, there is currently damn-all to choose between which is the "better" team.

[geysir]

Montenegro up to 26.
A truly remarkable rise through the ranking table, but well deserved.

[EalingGreen]

Montenegro up to 26.
A truly remarkable rise through the ranking table, but well deserved.
Somewhat misleading.

The big points gains are to be made from results against teams higher than you. Therefore NI, for instance, would have gained more points from their home draw to Italy than they would had they won in the Faroes (I know, I know).

Therefore, with Montenegro being the newest international team, every team was "higher" than them, even the minnows.

Fair enough, they have made impressive progress in "playing catch-up", but once they settle down at/around their true level for a couple of years, the novelty factor will dissipate.

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/news/newsid=1309611.html#montenegro+taking+flight
"Having started at the very bottom on zero points three years ago, the Falcons have been making impressive progress ever since"

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd say Montenegro's level is probably around the 30 mark, similar to our two teams, so 26 doesn't seem that misleading. The difference between them and us seems to be that they're able to convert their play into wins while we seem to pick up draws everywhere.

[geysir]

Fair enough about points gained when Montenegro were at the bottom, but the remarkable rise is from a position around the 60 to 70th position that they held before the Euro Qualifiers began to where they are now. They are in 26th place on merit. This is their 4th year.
And when results for Montenegro settle down over this qual. campaign, with their current squad, they should be hovering around the lower second seed to high third seeds areas.

[The Fly]

On the contrary. Iirc, Dick said he preferred to play ROI over NI because they were a "better test" (i.e. better team) for Belgium than NI.

Fine, that's his opinion.


An opinion shared by most, I'd wager.

[geysir]

Not the Faroes.

[The Fly]

Aye, and Liverpool are a "bigger" team than Everton, which must be a great comfort to the red half of Merseyside after Sunday's embarrassment.


I did use inverted commas when describing the team as the bigger of the two, but I'm sure you already noticed that.....oh pedantic one!

It was used to compare the importance, or position, of the two teams as they exist in the public consciousness. Much in the same way that it is used when referring to football clubs.....by which measure, Northern Ireland, are definately the smaller of the two.



Late News Flash: Experts have just confirmed that Canada is a bigger country than China, but not so big as Russia.

Oh dear.

[swinfordfc]

How we move up a place is nuts ..... we should have gone down 5 places in fairest ...... Rankings are a joke....