Sean McCaffrey

[Stuttgart88]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0830/mccaffreys_fai.html

Koevermans seems intent on shaking things up in the underage ranks. Candidates?

[mark12345]

Good luck to McCaffrey - he did well relatively speaking. However with no Robbie Keane, Damien Duff or Shay Given on the horizon (maybe there are and we don't know about it) the time may indeed be right for a shake up.

[Charlie Darwin]

Don Givens deserves a shot I reckon.

[Top Drawer]

Koevermans seems intent on shaking things up in the underage ranks
Making a mess of things more likely


After almost seven years in charge and with his contract expiring at the end of this year, the time is now right for a change of hands.

What sort of statement is that - It has been well known that Mc Caffrey was being dumped 12 months ago just look at the preparation that the Under 16 squad had under Guess Who John Morling - they never had as many games.

It is obvious that Morling was being set up as Manager as long ago as 12 months

[geysir]

Koevermans is untouchable at present.

Looks like Morling will take over the u17s as well as run the u16s.
And the post for the u18s/19s manager will be advertised, but not a job for life:)

[Bluebeard]

A pity. I had though McCafferey had done a good job within the circumstances. I cannot see that this was the best move for the underage setup.

[Predator]

In the debate over Don Givens' suitability for the U21 job, I remember his record being compared to McCaffrey's. At that time I was highly critical of McCaffrey's record (the U19s were poor in qualifying for the European Championships, losing heavily to Switzerland) and felt that he hadn't done enough in his time in charge of the 17s and 19s to be considered as superior to Givens as some were suggesting. I seem to recall that one poster ranked McCaffrey as good as Brian Kerr. Something I thought to be odd.

It'll certainly be interesting to see who replaces him and indeed where he goes afterwards.

[macdermesser]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0830/mccaffreys_fai.html

Koevermans seems intent on shaking things up in the underage ranks. Candidates?

Appointing Noel King was shaking up things?

[ifk101]

No motivation given in that press-release other than "it's time to try something new". That's all fair and good but the announcement seems planned to coincide with the forthcoming senior internationals - ie so that it would only get a brief mention in the press? It'll be interesting to see who comes in as his replacement but I'm not convinced that McCaffrey needed to be replaced.

[geysir]

The removal of Givens was certainly shaking up things.
There also appears to be a shake up of the structure and responsibilities of the underage managers.

[Top Drawer]

No it more an insight into how the FAI works
A manager who ****ed players off - ie Treacy, Stokes, Mc Cann, Foran and numerous others they have been well documented - and who hardly won a game of note is rewarded with a 175k job scouting in England.

The manager who has been dealing with youth players over a 7 year period and knows every youth players in particular players who are born outside the State is thrown on the scrapheap.

Surely it would have been more intelligent - I find it hard to use that word when I am talking about the FAI- to keep Sean Mc Caffrey in a role say with the Emerging Talent Programme or in identifying talent.

Once again the FAI shoot themselves in the foot

[geysir]

I don't know why McCaffrey was not offered another job within the FAI, but 7 years in this job was a reasonable amount of time to be in charge of the underage teams.

I have no reason to believe that Koevermans is incompetent, quite the contrary actually.

[irishfan86]

Is Givens actually making 175K? If so, that's surely criminal....especially when you consider that Bilic was on a third of that to manage Croatia!

[Dodge]

He didn't even get clsoe to that while manager of the u21s, never mind as a scout

[Top Drawer]

I have no reason to believe that Koevermans is incompetent, quite the contrary actually.

What has he done in the 18 months to give you that impression?

[irishfan86]

What has he done in the 18 months to give you that impression?

Well, he's Dutch, for one.

[geysir]

What has he done in the 18 months to give you that impression?

What has he done? he has not given me a reason to believe that he is incompetent.
Positive impressions are from a couple of interviews I read about him.
Effect of his direction of restructuring in the FAI remains to be seen over the course of time.

[ltfc_2004]

How have the U-15/U-16's got on under Morling ? also the under 18/19 job might be one for an ambitious young manager or any good young coaches around the LOI who might be in the reckoning for it ?

[strangeirish]

Don Givens deserves a shot I reckon.Yeah, out of a cannon.

[Top Drawer]

Positive impressions are from a couple of interviews I read about him

Great to see the criteria now for competence is to have a good journalistic friend

[Charlie Darwin]

Going out on a limb here, but maybe geysir is impressed by what Koevermans has actually said rather than what journalists have written about him.

[elroy]

Cant say I know McCaffreys record particularly well, but I had the impression that he had done reasonably well. Certainly better than the Don had anyways. Didnt he get the U17s or U19s to a Euros a year or two ago. Almost certain he was managing that team, they played France in their first game of the competition.

[monutdfc]

Cant say I know McCaffreys record particularly well, but I had the impression that he had done reasonably well. Certainly better than the Don had anyways. Didnt he get the U17s or U19s to a Euros a year or two ago. Almost certain he was managing that team, they played France in their first game of the competition.

Yes he did, qualfied with the Under 17s. A gentleman and an excellent coach, I am disappointed for Sean and wish him every success in the future.

[rebelmusic]

He got givens out of our second most important team - thats a good step in my head!!

[Stuttgart88]

I thought the last decade was pretty barrren in terms of underage football. It was great that the U17s qualified but that was the exception. U21s was a disaster, U19s were just as bad. I'm sure Sean did good work and is a great guy (I hear that from people who know him) but sometimes a change just shakes things up a bit.

Whatever happened to Gerry Smyth, the guy who qualified for the U20 WC in 2003? Stephen Elliott, Keith Fahey, Stephen Kelly, Brian Murphy and others were in that side I think.

I think it's so funny how on this thread and others (FAI ticket ofice...) it's just assumed the FAI is crap from top to bottom and any initiative taken to improve things is also rubbish. I know for a fact that the Scots are applauding our appointment of a Dutchman to oversee youth development.

[Alf Honn]

Gerry Smyth didn't qualify us for the U20 World Cup - Brian Kerr did. Smyth was drafted in after Kerr was promoted to the senior squad.

[Top Drawer]

but maybe geysir is impressed by what Koevermans has actually said rather than what journalists have written about him

Maybe he is just a bull s****er 100% record

We could have left Givens in the job saved a fortune (Koevermans wages) and be in the same position

Anybody reading my posts will see that I have no time for these foreigners - Just because you play for Holland or does not make you a genius. We as a nation have a horrible knack of "putting our own down"

There are plenty of good quality coaches around the Ireland who are Irish born and have far superior qualities that the ones we have brought in.

[Charlie Darwin]

Koevermans' job involves far more than hiring and firing managers...

[Top Drawer]

What else has he done? or what else is he supposed to do?

[Stuttgart88]

Here's his orginal remit. Whether it's changed since 2008 or not, I've no idea.

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3323&catid=80:archive&Itemid=355

[geysir]

Maybe he is just a bull s****er 100% record

We could have left Givens in the job saved a fortune (Koevermans wages) and be in the same position

Anybody reading my posts will see that I have no time for these foreigners - Just because you play for Holland or does not make you a genius. We as a nation have a horrible knack of "putting our own down"

There are plenty of good quality coaches around the Ireland who are Irish born and have far superior qualities that the ones we have brought in.

A usual anti-foreigner rant with an inability to understand what thread he is on or even what Koeverman's job is about.
But because he is a foreigner you mistrust him and his capability to do a job.

FYI,
Koeverman is NOT employed as a coach.
He has just hired a local coach to run the u21´s.
He is in temporary care of the u21´s where he has been responsible for the capping of the most LOI players in one competitive international, at least that I can remember.
Perhaps 1972 v Austria?

[Alf Honn]

A usual anti-foreigner rant with an inability to understand what thread he is on or even what Koeverman's job is about.
But because he is a foreigner you mistrust him and his capability to do a job.

FYI,
Koeverman is NOT employed as a coach.
He has just hired a local coach to run the u21´s.
He is in temporary care of the u21´s where he has been responsible for the capping of the most LOI players in one competitive international, at least that I can remember.
Perhaps 1972 v Austria?


You're correct, as his hefty salary reflects, he's not employed as a coach - which makes his switch into that role for these two matches all the more ridiculous.

Overall, I would feel most people involved in Youth football around the country are peeved with the treatment dished out to McCaffrey by the Dutchman.

While he never had the charm or media savvy of his predecessor Brian Kerr, McCaffrey was a major influence on players coming through the system at an age when a multitude of things can mess us their heads. He had his own health problems a few years back but still managed to lead the U17s to the UEFA finals in Turkey as one of seven qualifiers (not 15 like the senior Euros).

To dump a man out on his ear after the season started and, unlike Givens, without any offer to remain on in a different role was out of order by Koevermans and shows the decision was personal.

[Charlie Darwin]

He took over as coach for a week and a half - it's hardly "ridiculous."

McCaffrey did a reasonable job but like our senior and U21 squads, his teams have underperformed over the last few years and ultimately he has to take responsibility.

The difference between Givens and McCaffrey is that Givens was still under contract when Koevermans removed him whereas McCaffrey's contract was due to expire. He was equally ruthless in both cases but it appears the cost-effective action in Givens' case was to re-assign him. I'm not advocate of cronyism and would rather have seen Givens removed from the set-up entirely, but I don't really see the benefit of giving McCaffrey a different role unless there was actually a vacant position he was suitable for.

I'm sure McCaffrey is a very nice bloke and a talented coach but one of the refreshing things about Koevermans' appointment in the first place was that it broke with the FAI tradition of giving people jobs as a reward for loyalty/past services/being a nice fella.

[Alf Honn]

He took over as coach for a week and a half - it's hardly "ridiculous."

McCaffrey did a reasonable job but like our senior and U21 squads, his teams have underperformed over the last few years and ultimately he has to take responsibility.

The difference between Givens and McCaffrey is that Givens was still under contract when Koevermans removed him whereas McCaffrey's contract was due to expire. He was equally ruthless in both cases but it appears the cost-effective action in Givens' case was to re-assign him. I'm not advocate of cronyism and would rather have seen Givens removed from the set-up entirely, but I don't really see the benefit of giving McCaffrey a different role unless there was actually a vacant position he was suitable for.

I'm sure McCaffrey is a very nice bloke and a talented coach but one of the refreshing things about Koevermans' appointment in the first place was that it broke with the FAI tradition of giving people jobs as a reward for loyalty/past services/being a nice fella.


'of giving people jobs as a reward for loyalty/past services/being a nice fella,'

Do you not think Givens falls in this category?!

The clown's reward for an abysmal run of campaigns and litany of fall-out with players was not the sack but side-stepped into a cushy number. Getting the same money (or more, if rumours are to be believed) is hardly cost-effective.

By the way, McCaffrey had four months left on his contract when sacked. Givens' contract was due to expire shortly early in the new year as Delaney confirmed.

[geysir]

You're correct, as his hefty salary reflects, he's not employed as a coach - which makes his switch into that role for these two matches all the more ridiculous.

Overall, I would feel most people involved in Youth football around the country are peeved with the treatment dished out to McCaffrey by the Dutchman.

While he never had the charm or media savvy of his predecessor Brian Kerr, McCaffrey was a major influence on players coming through the system at an age when a multitude of things can mess us their heads. He had his own health problems a few years back but still managed to lead the U17s to the UEFA finals in Turkey as one of seven qualifiers (not 15 like the senior Euros).

To dump a man out on his ear after the season started and, unlike Givens, without any offer to remain on in a different role was out of order by Koevermans and shows the decision was personal.
The slant of your reply is anti-foreigner, like the other poster. Your post reflects an ignorance and prejudice based on that he is a foreigner.
Now the goalposts have shifted from the other posters wildly inaccurate moans about not promoting irish coaches, to that the foreigner took temporary charge of the u21s.
A temporary duty, with which Koevermans is well capable of undertaking.
When you are capable of some rational thought, maybe you might be able to have some rational opinions on how other people do their job without condescending regard to their nationality.

[Charlie Darwin]

Of course Givens falls in that category, but it's an achievement in itself that the FAI was willing to back Koevermans in getting rid of him, even if it was only on a bender to the UK. There were a lot of us who were afraid that Givens would be sitting in that U21 chair until he died of old age.

I didn't know the specifics of the contract situations, but I'd wager Givens was on a much higher salary and couple with pressure from his friends in the organisation it might have been a trade-off Koevermans had to make. It is a little harsh on McCaffrey but the fact is that if results improve markedly under the new managers then he'll quickly be forgotten.

[Alf Honn]

Nowt to do with anti-foreigner, sure Trap's doing a great job.

[bennocelt]

Wouldnt bother arguing with the two FAI heads here Alf. I have them on my ignore list!!!!

[Stuttgart88]

Bizarre, words fail me.

[geysir]

I'm sure you have some choice words floating about in your thoughts :)

[passinginterest]

It seems a few people on here have some sort of connection to McCaffrey and are here to defend him. I don't see a big problem with the change. It was certainly reported that McCaffrey was at the end of his contract, he's been in the post for years and has had moderate success, Kovermans was tasked with overseeing the development of the underage system from the top down, this included working closely with all of the underage managers, it's quite possible he didn't see eye to eye with McCaffrey so under the remit of his own job he would be required to appoint a coach he felt comfortable working with.

The wisdom of the decision will be judged on the medium and long term success of the underage teams.

[geysir]

4 months was referred to here, I don't think 4 years was mentioned.
McCaffrey was not sacked.
It is all well and good to make a case for renewal of McCaffrey's contract or make a case for him to be offered another job if available.
But what we have seen here is some posters come to support McCaffrey and throw in ignorant, anti foreigner, innaccurate and general nonsense about Koevermans,
so much so that there can be no merit in anything they write.
McCaffrey deserves better than those moronic posts.

[Alf Honn]

4 months was referred to here, I don't think 4 years was mentioned.
McCaffrey was not sacked.
It is all well and good to make a case for renewal of McCaffrey's contract or make a case for him to be offered another job if available.
But what we have seen here is some posters come to support McCaffrey and throw in ignorant, anti foreigner, innaccurate and general nonsense about Koevermans,
so much so that there can be no merit in anything they write.
McCaffrey deserves better than those moronic posts.


Fired four months before contract end is not sacked? Are you more into FAI parlance of 'mutual consent' then, a la Stan?

Go back to bed Mr. Abbotstown, you could do with the sleep.

[ifk101]

Every decision made by the FAI is going to be open for debate on an Irish football forum. I don't think we should automatically assume because he's Dutch he can improve our fortunes. Koevermans needs to adapt to Irish football as much as Irish football needs to adapt to his ideas.

Don Givens constantly stated throughout his time in charge that his job description was player development rather than results oriented. Should we assume that McCaffrey's job description was any different? And with this in mind, can we say McCaffrey under-performed in his role? The fact that the FAI chose to simple state that they felt it was time for change after 7 years isn't really a sufficient reason to get rid of McCaffrey.

But I'm willing to give Wim Koevermans the benefit of doubt for the time being. Only time will tell if the decision to get rid of McCaffrey was the right decision to make.

[Top Drawer]

But what we have seen here is some posters come to support McCaffrey and throw in ignorant, anti foreigner, innaccurate and general nonsense about Koevermans,
so much so that there can be no merit in anything they write.I am not anti foreigner - However the FAI have always run with the idea that if you speak with a foreign accent be it English or Dutch you are a far superior coach

There are numerous Irish coaches who could do a far superior job.

As for Koevermans - I am of the opinion that we have far superior people here in Ireland capable of doing his Job but unfortunately they speak with a Dublin, Northern or Country accent.

Yes I am a fan of Mc Caffrey - And I think that he could still play a huge roll in the development of young players in this Country. With the knowledge of our players and foreign players that he has I think it is a shame for it to be wasted.

[Supreme feet]

The FAI also hired Brian Kerr and Steve Staunton for the senior jobs. Look how that turned out. The remit is not to get 'Irish' or 'foreign' coaches - it is to get the best men available, and Koevermans has a decent CV, having managed several clubs in Holland and being the Dutch youth manager for six years. How many Irish coaches are there who have managed clubs and worked in international youth management? Probably only Brian Kerr and (at a stretch) Pat Fenlon.

If we had Stephen Kenny, Fenlon or Damien Richardson in the post (as U-21 manager or technical director), they might bring baggage or loyalties with certain players, or be more favourably disposed to players/staff from certain clubs. It also wouldn't stop fans from complaining or dragging up dirt, as was the case when Pat Devlin was involved in the senior set-up. If we appointed an ex-international like, say, Kenny Cunningham or Ronnie Whelan, we'd be moaning about them having no experience, like Staunton. It's best to hire someone who has no prior attachments, who can come in without bias or prejudice, to run the rule over our players with an objective view. It also helps if they have a pedigree in the game, which Koevermans does. Anyway, let's wait and see. It's a job for long-term results, which aren't going to be quantifiable for a long time to come.

[Stuttgart88]

Fired four months before contract end is not sacked? Are you more into FAI parlance of 'mutual consent' then, a la Stan?

Go back to bed Mr. Abbotstown, you could do with the sleep.Not having a contract renewed is not sacked.

Bore off with your dumb "Mr Abbotstown" references. One can offer objective support for some aspects of the FAI's work without being an FAI sychophant. I think it's obvious you're the one struggling to be objective.

I've met McCaffrey. Very nice guy. Is he the right man for the job and to roll out the FAI's plans? I've absolutely no idea. Someone like Wim Koevermans is much better placed than any of us to decide.

[Charlie Darwin]

I am not anti foreigner - However the FAI have always run with the idea that if you speak with a foreign accent be it English or Dutch you are a far superior coach

There are numerous Irish coaches who could do a far superior job.

As for Koevermans - I am of the opinion that we have far superior people here in Ireland capable of doing his Job but unfortunately they speak with a Dublin, Northern or Country accent.
Here, yesterday you admitted you didn't even know what his job description was.

Today you've decided there are "far superior" people in this country capable of doing his job, despite the fact you still don't appear to know what his job is. Yet you claim you're not biased against foreigners (even though you "have no time" for them).

I have nothing against McCaffrey and think he's done a better job than anyone else (barring Noel King) at underage level since Brian Kerr, but the fact is we haven't qualified for anything in seven years and the coach is ultimately responsible for results on the pitch. Noticing this doesn't make Koevermans the most perceptive man in the world, nor does it make him Hitler.

[Alf Honn]

but the fact is we haven't qualified for anything in seven years and the coach is ultimately responsible for results on the pitch. .

Incorrect. 2008 U17 European Championships.

[Paddy Garcia]

The FAI would not be the first (poss the last) to recognise that the Dutch have something to offer underage development.