Shane Ferguson

[TrapAPony]

19 year old Shane Ferguson from Derry played left back for Newcastle in the Carling Cup tonight. Do any of the Derrymen here know much about him?

[DannyInvincible]

He has played with Northern Ireland through the various youth levels and has one senior cap from their away friendly against Italy last year. That doesn't necessarily tie him down to them as it wasn't a competitive fixture, but I could foresee a lot of outrage - worse than that which Duffy's switch sparked - if he were to make a move at this stage, despite still being 19.

[Predator]

Shane's a former student of St. Mary's Limavady. He played on their gaelic and football teams and also played with the Maiden City Academy. I've seen him play a few times and he's a quick, tricky winger, but always appeared to be a bit on the light side. He would be open to playing for Ireland, but I'd say he's made his decision, having played against Italy.

Interestingly, current Derry player 18 year old Mickey McCrudden, played in the same Newcastle youth teams as Ferguson, as well as on the same IFA youth teams. He's another that would be open to playing for Ireland, were he to receive a call up. Maybe the McEleney bros, Tom McBride and Darren McCauley should have a word with Sean McCaffrey? :cool:

[DannyInvincible]

Shane's a former student of St. Mary's Limavady.

Is he from the city?

[Predator]

I don't think so. He's a big culchie :P

[TheBoss]

He has played with Northern Ireland through the various youth levels and has one senior cap from their away friendly against Italy last year. That doesn't necessarily tie him down to them as it wasn't a competitive fixture, but I could foresee a lot of outrage - worse than that which Duffy's switch sparked - if he were to make a move at this stage, despite still being 19.

It does, any 'A' International ties you down.

[TrapAPony]

I'm fairly sure it has to be in a competitive match.

[DannyInvincible]

It does, any 'A' International ties you down.

Article 18 of FIFA's statutes says otherwise:


18: Change of Association
1. If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if a Player is eligible to play for several representative teams due to nationality, he may, only once, request to change the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches to the Association of another country of which he holds nationality, subject to the following conditions:
(a) He has not played a match (either in full or in part) in an official competition at "A" international level for his current Association, and at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition for his current Association, he already had the nationality of the representative team for which he wishes to play.
...

FIFA define an official competition as "a competition for representative teams organised by FIFA or any Confederation", so friendly games don't tie a player down, whether it's an 'A' international or not.

[TheBoss]

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/5423088/fifa-rule-northern-ireland-players-eligibility-upheld-court-arbitration-sport



CAS upheld FIFA's decision that Kearns had dual nationality and could choose which team to represent. FIFA's rules allow players with dual eligibility to switch sides before they play a competitive senior international match.


That is a friendly match.

[TrapAPony]

Edgar Castillo played 4 times for Mexico at Senior Level from 2007-2009 before switching to play for the USA. Castillo became eligible to play for the United States because he had yet to make an appearance for Mexico in a competitive match at senior level, as opposed to an international friendly or an A-grade international.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Castillo

Jermaine Jones has switched to the USA after playing 3 times for Germany.

[DannyInvincible]

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/5423088/fifa-rule-northern-ireland-players-eligibility-upheld-court-arbitration-sport



That is a friendly match.

I think I'll stick with the more precise FIFA rulebook over some less-than-meticulous article written by an anonymous journalist, thank you very much. ;)

[DannyInvincible]

Edgar Castillo played 4 times for Mexico at Senior Level from 2007-2009 before switching to play for the USA. Castillo became eligible to play for the United States because he had yet to make an appearance for Mexico in a competitive match at senior level, as opposed to an international friendly or an A-grade international.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Castillo

Jermaine Jones has switched to the USA after playing 3 times for Germany.

I was going to mention Castillo but you got there before me. Of course, the same rules - quoted above - apply to Shane Ferguson as apply to Castillo. The CAS decision didn't spawn some unique precedent or FIFA rule that applies to Irish nationals only. It merely confirmed that the FAI were conforming to existing FIFA rules in calling up northern-born Irish nationals.

That Wikipedia entry on Castillo is worded a bit strangely, however. It's correct that Castillo didn't appear in a competitive match at senior level for Mexico, but I don't see why whoever wrote it felt the need to distinguish between a competitive match at senior level or an international friendly (senior also, presumably) and an 'A' international (which is any "match arranged between two Members of FIFA and for which both Members field their first representative team", according to article 3 of FIFA's regulations governing the application of the statutes (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/01/24/fifastatuten2009_e.pdf)). After all, the friendly games Castillo played in were 'A' internationals, as would have been any competitive games he played in had he lined out for Mexico in official FIFA competition. The following would be more correct:

Castillo became eligible to play for the United States because he had yet to make an appearance for Mexico in a competitive 'A' international match, as opposed to an 'A' international friendly or a friendly not played under the auspices of FIFA.
Not suggesting that he did play in some unrecognised friendly but just covering the possibility for the sake of argument.

[Stuttgart88]

Article 18 of FIFA's statutes says otherwise:



FIFA define an official competition as "a competition for representative teams organised by FIFA or any Confederation", so friendly games don't tie a player down, whether it's an 'A' international or not.Perhaps somebody can post Article 18 and anything related to it as a sticky thread?

[bwagner]

irish teenager paul george signs new celtic deal
Mark Henderson
CELTIC are delighted to announce that highly-rated youngster Paul George has signed a new three-year deal with the club.

The 16-year-old, who has spent the last year on the Celtic Academy’s innovative school programme at St Ninian’s High, has already made an appearance for the first-team towards the end of last season, coming on a substitute in a friendly match with AZ Alkmaar at Celtic Park.

Celtic, Head of Youth, Chris McCart said: “We are absolutely delighted to have secured Paul for the next three years.

“Paul is a player we have had over here for two years now. He has settled into Scotland has been part of our schools project at St Ninian's for the last year and is the type of player that is an entertainer. He has very good skills, but is also dedicated and hard-working too.

“He has had a taste of the first-team with the friendly with AZ Alkmaar last season and is a Northern Ireland internationalist as well. This year, he is going to be a regular with the 17s and breaking into our 19s – establishing himself in the 19s will be his challenge this year.”

[DannyInvincible]

Perhaps somebody can post Article 18 and anything related to it as a sticky thread?

You'd wonder what use even that would be. The rules are already so readily accessible - it's just a matter of typing "FIFA statutes" into Google - yet the amount of confusion surrounding them is staggering. And not just amongst your everyday fan, but also within the media. For example, I think the media have the whole "Arteta for England" thing completely wrong, like how they erred over N'Zogbia's alleged eligibility. Arteta might qualify for British citizenship, but I don't see how he's eligible for England under the sub-criterion in article 18.1(a), also quoted above. Even when you post the relevant rules, in all their clarity, some will still maintain you are wrong by throwing lazy media articles back at you or suggesting that the rules are irrelevant or ought to be overlooked because they don't conform with some vague notion or "general principle" they've imagined to exist in their heads. EalingGreen was famous for that in the eligibility thread. More accurately, his self-constructed "general principle" never existed because it was a figment of his imagination and didn't conform with the unequivocal express rules, there for all to see.

[geysir]

I think I'll stick with the more precise FIFA rulebook over some less-than-meticulous article written by an anonymous journalist, thank you very much. ;)
Actually the article (http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/5423088/fifa-rule-northern-ireland-players-eligibility-upheld-court-arbitration-sport) does not conflict with anything you wrote and is fully FIFA compliant.
From the article -
'FIFA's rules allow players with dual eligibility to switch sides before they play a competitive senior international match.'

Boss just does not understand the FIFA definition of 'competitive senior match'.

[Stuttgart88]

Arteta's wikipedia entry is more on the ball than the UK media:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikel_Arteta

[DannyInvincible]

Actually the article (http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/5423088/fifa-rule-northern-ireland-players-eligibility-upheld-court-arbitration-sport) does not conflict with anything you wrote and is fully FIFA compliant.
From the article -
'FIFA's rules allow players with dual eligibility to switch sides before they play a competitive senior international match.'

Boss just does not understand the FIFA definition of 'competitive senior match'.

Sorry, yes, you're right. Egg on my face after having a go at people not taking care to read the rules. Excuse my carelessness and apologies to the anonymous journalist if he's reading this. ;)

Still, I hope any confusion as to what amounts to a competitive senior match has been cleared up.

[Charlie Darwin]

Arteta's wikipedia entry is more on the ball than the UK media:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikel_Arteta
Did somebody here edit the article? :o

[DannyInvincible]

It doesn't appear so. It looks like the work of a user called 'Matthew hk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Matthew_hk)' from Hong Kong: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mikel_Arteta&diff=next&oldid=380543664

We got anyone from Hong Kong? ;)

[DannyInvincible]

Arteta's wikipedia entry is more on the ball than the UK media:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikel_Arteta

I'm trying to think of players who have qualified to play for a country other than their birth country through the residency rule in order to see if there are any who might have originally represented their home country at youth level. While it wouldn't confirm anything really if they hadn't, if there was even one that had played for the country of their birth at youth level and then went on to play for another country after attaining citizenship of that country through residency, I presume it would mean that Arteta may well be eligible for England, assuming the same rules applied then as they do now. However, to mention a few examples of players who qualified through residency to play for countries other than the ones in which they were born, neither Deco or Pepe, who went on to play for Portugal, ever played with Brazil at youth level, and then there's Cacau who plays for Germany. He was never called up by Brazil at youth level either. It doesn't appear Marcos Senna, who went on to play for Spain after qualifying under residency, represented Brazil at youth level either. The difficulty in finding a player to have played at youth level for one country and to have then later qualified to play for another under the residency rule bolsters the original suspicion that Arteta might not be eligible to play for England could well be entirely correct. I think the wording of article 18 makes that reasonably clear anyway, but this seems to back it up somewhat. Unless there are other examples I've missed?

[co. down green]

irish teenager paul george signs new celtic deal
Mark Henderson
CELTIC are delighted to announce that highly-rated youngster Paul George has signed a new three-year deal with the club.

The 16-year-old, who has spent the last year on the Celtic Academy’s innovative school programme at St Ninian’s High, has already made an appearance for the first-team towards the end of last season, coming on a substitute in a friendly match with AZ Alkmaar at Celtic Park.

Celtic, Head of Youth, Chris McCart said: “We are absolutely delighted to have secured Paul for the next three years.

“Paul is a player we have had over here for two years now. He has settled into Scotland has been part of our schools project at St Ninian's for the last year and is the type of player that is an entertainer. He has very good skills, but is also dedicated and hard-working too.

“He has had a taste of the first-team with the friendly with AZ Alkmaar last season and is a Northern Ireland internationalist as well. This year, he is going to be a regular with the 17s and breaking into our 19s – establishing himself in the 19s will be his challenge this year.”

Young George attended a football function in Downpatrick a few weeks back and said a few words. Let's say, he was quite clear about his future international hopes...and they did not involve playing at Windsor Park.

So that's another one to the 'possibles' list.

[Predator]

Young George attended a football function in Downpatrick a few weeks back and said a few words. Let's say, he was quite clear about his future international hopes...and they did not involve playing at Windsor Park.

So that's another one to the 'possibles' list.Cool, maybe we'll see him in the next few squads, if he's good enough.

Bit on Ferguson's debut in the Journal (http://www.derryjournal.com/derry/Shane39s-flying-high-after-39Magpies39.6499247.jp) today. He appears to be committed to the IFA:

Shane has also been heavily involved in the N. Ireland underage set-up and he returns home next weekend for the N. Ireland Under-19 European Championship qualifying campaign.Young Mickey McCrudden gives his two cents as well.

[SkStu]

Bit on Ferguson's debut in the Journal today. He appears to be committed to the IFA:

with a name like Ferguson, is anyone too surprised??

[DannyInvincible]

Not that names, educational background and interests are strict indicators of where a northern-born player's national allegiance might lie, but he also happened to play GAA for St. Mary's of Limavady, so I wouldn't be so presumptious as to his background and outlook on life due to his surname. After all, I believe Adams is a surname with its origins in Ireland dating back to the Ulster Plantation. And who would think a guy with a name like Sammy Clingan was from the Falls Road?

[SkStu]

ah, i was only messing DI...

[fhtb]

discussing a player's eligibility based on their school, name and whether they played GAA or not.

Call yourselves a national team?

you're a poor man's old firm.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Oh wind yer neck in fhtb. They're indulging in a spot of half arsed "profiling" and joining a few dots. It's vulgar I'll concede but there's hardly old firm-esque badness in it.

On the individual concerned -he's not reached the top of the altar yet and is as entitled to play for our team as I am. But it'd be a low business if he walked out on the IFA now -not that I expect him to.

[geysir]

Nothing sinks lower than some of the heads when standing to attention to GSTQ.

[Predator]

discussing a player's eligibility based on their school, name and whether they played GAA or not.

Call yourselves a national team?

you're a poor man's old firm.You really are some craic, boy.

[Predator]

discussing a player's eligibility based on their school, name and whether they played GAA or not.

Call yourselves a national team?

you're a poor man's old firm.We're not really discussing his eligibility either. That's something which has been long cleared up and there is no ambiguity over whether or not he qualifies. Shane Ferguson qualifies to play for Ireland, despite the fact that he has appeared in a senior international friendly for the IFA. However although he is free to do so, it seems unlikely, in my opinion, that he will change allegiance at this stage. Best of luck to him either way.

[fhtb]

to those 'real' RoI fans that are allegedly out there, this is the type of what-foot-does-he-kick-with ****e the international teams have now been reduced to thanks to that gob****e Delaney.

cheers.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha, are you still here?
Surely you should be back to harrassing anyone with a contrary view on OWB....

Paranoid fool.

[backstothewall]

discussing a player's eligibility based on their school, name and whether they played GAA or not.

Call yourselves a national team?

you're a poor man's old firm.

He has, in fairness, made a good point, though not the one he thought he was making. Just because someone is called Ferguson, or is from Larne, or drinks Tennants, or played rugby at school, or whatever else, we shouldn't be treating them any differently. Its a guide to us speculating here on the internet about who might to be willing to make the switch, but I would hope the FAI leave no stone uncovered in this regard. It is now clear that EVERY player born in the 6 counties is as eligible to play for us as anyone else, and I would argue we should be making a particular effort with the protestant lads, and ladies (No reason whover takes over from Noel King shouldn't benefit as much as anyone else - might be worth giving the job to a northerner actually).

[Lionel Ritchie]

to those 'real' RoI fans that are allegedly out there, this is the type of what-foot-does-he-kick-with ****e the international teams have now been reduced to thanks to that gob****e Delaney.

cheers.

Ah yes the old "F.ootball A.partheid in I.reland" nugget. Makes a nice banner I'm sure (and more tasteful than the one that makes sniggering nods to child abuse) but it's a spurious argument at best. There'll still be plenty from both sides of the community turning out for the IFA, regardless of the doom prophets who make this phenomenon out to be something new, and there'll still be the odd player from either side of the community who turns south as Duffy did, as Gibson did, as McStay did, as Crossley did, as Kernaghan did.


He has, in fairness, made a good point, though not the one he thought he was making. Just because someone is called Ferguson, or is from Larne, or drinks Tennants, or played rugby at school, or whatever else, we shouldn't be treating them any differently.

I don't believe we are. I know little about their backgrounds (and care less) but we've two lads in and around the squad -Darron Gibson and Marc Wilson who's names are so utterly Nordie I have no difficulty imagining them on DUP election posters resplendent with great big red, white and blue rossettes. Nobody's checking if these lads or anyone else know the angelus.

[fhtb]

your ignorance knows no bounds.

Unlike Northern Ireland, as one can only play for the RoI with Irish citizenship, it'd be pretty difficult to expect those who don't want to make a political statement to do so. Also would threaten the FAI's pretence that all they do is wait beside a phone, as Jonny Evans' public statements proved. Nah, better to concentrate on the young nationalists, now where's my big book of Catholic-sounding names?

Shame on you.

lol @ your 'sniggering nods to child abuse' comment btw. Turn your radio on. The decade you're stuck in should still be pumping out the tune. Perhaps a Freudian slip on your part mind. +1 for the Alan Kernaghan 'Sam Maguire was a prod' reference too.

But then what do people expect from a member of Fianna Fail I guess. Where did you choose to open your first office in NI again? Seems you don't get it on a number of levels.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Would agree with most of the first part of LR's post
Though would go more with Btw's stance that we offer a more realistic chance of making Finals (or just missing out!), especially in the light of the uncompromising attitude of the more paranoid about freedom of choice....

As for Darron Gibson or family, potentially being in the DUP ( ;) ), not sure you would find too many of his surname in that fraternity

[ArdeeBhoy]

your ignorance knows no bounds.

Unlike Northern Ireland, as one can only play for the RoI with Irish citizenship, it'd be pretty difficult to expect those who don't want to make a political statement to do so. Also would threaten the FAI's pretence that all they do is wait beside a phone, as Jonny Evans' public statements proved. Nah, better to concentrate on the young nationalists, now where's my big book of Catholic-sounding names?

Shame on you.

lol @ your 'sniggering nods to child abuse' comment btw. Turn your radio on. The decade you're stuck in should still be pumping out the tune. Perhaps a Freudian slip on your part mind. +1 for the Alan Kernaghan 'Sam Maguire was a prod' reference too.

But then what do people expect from a member of Fianna Fail I guess. Where did you choose to open your first office in NI again? Seems you don't get it on a number of levels.

Huh? Care to explain in language that is even vaguely comprehensible? Yer beloved monarch would not be too impressed....
;)

[youngirish]

your ignorance knows no bounds.

Unlike Northern Ireland, as one can only play for the RoI with Irish citizenship, it'd be pretty difficult to expect those who don't want to make a political statement to do so. Also would threaten the FAI's pretence that all they do is wait beside a phone, as Jonny Evans' public statements proved. Nah, better to concentrate on the young nationalists, now where's my big book of Catholic-sounding names?

Shame on you.

lol @ your 'sniggering nods to child abuse' comment btw. Turn your radio on. The decade you're stuck in should still be pumping out the tune. Perhaps a Freudian slip on your part mind. +1 for the Alan Kernaghan 'Sam Maguire was a prod' reference too.

But then what do people expect from a member of Fianna Fail I guess. Where did you choose to open your first office in NI again? Seems you don't get it on a number of levels.
You reap what you sow fhtb. Until very, very recently the IFA made absolutely no effort to appeal to the large non unionist minority in Northern Ireland, in fact it's symbolism, anthem and a large section of it's support would actively have discouraged such support from this minority (and still do to a point). Seriously do you really think many Catholic or Nationalist children growing up in NI would have been attracted in any way to supporting the NI team after witnessing the sectarian abuse in Windsor in 93 thrown at the ROI team and it's fans?

Of course in the past many Catholic and/or Nationalist players born in the North that may have felt little association with the NI team may still have chosen to play for them as there was little appeal in switching to the ROI team at the time due to the controversy and possible unpleasant consequences in a personal sense that such a decision may have generated and let's also not forget that NI had been, up until that point, by far the more succesful of the two teams in International competitions.

As for throwing that old sectarian argument into the mix you'll need to have your own house in order for a long time first before bringing that elephant into the proverbial room as I would suggest that whatever you like to delude yourself into believing you'd find it highly unlikely that many protestants born in Wicklow or Dublin would be eager to switch to play for the Northern Ireland team if they were involved in the ROI youth setusp so I think the FAI (and Irish state as a whole I might add) have done quite well in integrating the state's religious minorities into it's framework since it's existence thank you very much.

[Lionel Ritchie]

your ignorance knows no bounds. Okay -ignorant I may be but I understood this sentence. a good start.


Unlike Northern Ireland, as one can only play for the RoI with Irish citizenship, it'd be pretty difficult to expect those who don't want to make a political statement to do so. Out of courtesy I've read this sentence about 50 times and I still can't work out what the hell it is you're trying to say.


Also would threaten the FAI's pretence that all they do is wait beside a phone, as Jonny Evans' public statements proved. Nah, better to concentrate on the young nationalists, now where's my big book of Catholic-sounding names?. I dunno what Jonny Evans stated less again what it proves. But I'll guess it was something to do with someone at the heart of the FAI conspiracy to wipe out NI, Delaney himself perhaps or some minnion underling trying to lure him to the dark side -well if that's true it at least puts to bed the theory that the FAI only chase northerners with excellent bogball credentials as Jonny Evans sounds as Welsh as Manic Street Preachers. We'll have Cymru giving out yards next.



lol @ your 'sniggering nods to child abuse' comment btw. Ye have a banner that reads something along the lines of FAI -Stop Interfering With Our Kids. It must be testament to the ethnic gulf between us, my southerner deficit of that robust caustic northern wit,that I didn't consider it an absolute belter.



Turn your radio on. The decade you're stuck in should still be pumping out the tune. Perhaps a Freudian slip on your part mind. +1 for the Alan Kernaghan 'Sam Maguire was a prod' reference too.

...um ...what?



But then what do people expect from a member of Fianna Fail I guess. Where did you choose to open your first office in NI again? Seems you don't get it on a number of levels.

...I can't find a 'what the f*** are you on about?' emoticon

[Gather round]

But it'd be a low business if he walked out on the IFA now -not that I expect him to


There'll still be plenty from both sides of the community turning out for the IFA, regardless of the doom prophets who make this phenomenon out to be something new, and there'll still be the odd player from either side of the community who turns south

Agreed on both counts.


He has, in fairness, made a good point, though not the one he thought he was making. Just because someone is called Ferguson, or is from Larne, or drinks Tennants, or played rugby at school, or whatever else, we shouldn't be treating them any differently

No, you should be treating them differently if they've already played for Northern Ireland.


I would argue we should be making a particular effort with the protestant lads, and ladies (No reason whover takes over from Noel King shouldn't benefit as much as anyone else - might be worth giving the job to a northerner actually)

Why would you argue that? Northern Ireland probably isn't the best/ biggest source of players from outside the country: there are likely to be more in England, unlikely to play for them and thus less likely to cause a fuss if they declare for the South. Of course I realise that this is a welcome PR bonus for the FAI, and an enjoyable running gag on here. Until everyone gets bored, there'll be a speculative thread about every NI youth prospect/ Englishman with plauslbly Gaelic-sounding name etc. etc.

There is a natural limit to the benefit of reaching out to the fourth green field and all that. It's largely about numbers and scale. There are obviously only 11 places in any team, so not all decent players will get caps, even at youth level. While NI's smaller size and thus player pool mean we're more likely to award full caps early. I doubt Staunton (or Trap, or Kerr, or McCarthy) would have put in the 18 year old Jonny Evans out of position against Spain, say.


As for Darron Gibson or family, potentially being in the DUP ( ;) ), not sure you would find too many of his surname in that fraternity

Gibson is a common Prod/ Unionist surname in NI, as Lionel suggested. I knew quite a few at school, for example.


Though would go more with Btw's stance that we offer a more realistic chance of making Finals (or just missing out!), especially in the light of the uncompromising attitude of the more paranoid about freedom of choice....

I doubt it has much to do with either. These guys want to play for the Republic because they support you. Although in any given tournament, NI will start less likely to qualify than the South, it's the difference between hardly ever and slightly less so in recent memory. And even if your boys (or ours) put together another 80s/ early 90s squad that challenges regularly, that will simply mean that it's stronger and thus more difficult to get into.


Until very, very recently the IFA made absolutely no effort to appeal to the large non unionist minority in Northern Ireland

Harsh on the IFA and NI fans, YI. Football for All is long- and well-established.


in fact it's symbolism, anthem and a large section of it's support would actively have discouraged such support from this minority (and still do to a point)

Rather a roundabout argument this. Its "symbolism" is largely that it exists, therefore those who think it shouldn't will be discouraged from it. Look through similar threads in the index, and you'll see that many of the NI-based Republic fans have said repeatedly that the flag/ anthem/ stadium location/ muriels etc. etc. are not important in their lack of support for NI. It's because they support the South.


Seriously do you really think many Catholic or Nationalist children growing up in NI would have been attracted in any way to supporting the NI team after witnessing the sectarian abuse in Windsor in 93 thrown at the ROI team and it's fans?

I think nationalist kids are attracted to supporting the Republic because broadly that's what nationalist kids before them did for generations. Fine. If some of them want to support NI as well or instead, equally fine. Whule not condoning any intimidation at that game 17 years ago I doubt it's the factor you suggest.


Of course in the past many Catholic and/or Nationalist players born in the North that may have felt little association with the NI team may still have chosen to play for them

Of course this might be just vague speculation on your part. Nobody forces anyone to play international football. So I think the default assumption is that anyone who does is proud to.


as there was little appeal in switching to the ROI team at the time due to the controversy and possible unpleasant consequences in a personal sense that such a decision may have generated

There's not much evidence for this, is there? Alan Kernaghan got some stick from the terraces, but nothing he wouldn't have been used to in club football.

What unpleasantness were you thinking of? Digs in the press? Photoshopped banners (or the old tech equivalent)? Kneecappings in the IFA's romper room?


and let's also not forget that NI had been, up until that point, by far the more succesful of the two teams in International competitions

I think you flatter us. In the long-term, we've had one blue period from 1980-86; yours more recent and slightly longer-standing from 1986-1994. Both before and since we've both been pretty mediocre.


As for throwing that old sectarian argument into the mix you'll need to have your own house in order for a long time first before bringing that elephant into the proverbial room

If the FAI were sectarian (they aren't), it would be entirely reasonable for the IFA like anyone else to criticise, whatever their own faults. And vice-versa.


you'd find it highly unlikely that many protestants born in Wicklow or Dublin would be eager to switch to play for the Northern Ireland if they were involved in the ROI youth setup so I think the FAI (and Irish state as a whole I might add) have done quite well in integrating the state's religious minorities into it's framework since it's existence thank you very much

You're welcome. As a (non) religious minority member (atheist) who lived in the Republic of Ireland, I had no difficulty whatever in integrating into the framework. Yes, the pubs oddly closed for an hour every lunchtime and you couldn't turn on the TV news without seeing some bloke with a halo going Bong!, but those were minor quirs and hardly an incovenience. That said, even in the early 80s it was widely accepted that the RC Church was a) declining in influence and b) supported in its institutional corruption by the state. All parts of a wider issue, of course.

The basic difference is that unionists in the South were a small minority who accepted the Free State/ Republic; nationalists in NI a larger one who didn't.

If a kid in Wicklow (or anywhere) is dually qualified for the Republic and NI or anyone else, there are obvious reasons repeatedly detailed why he might choose the other. I wouldn't get too het up about it.

[Stuttgart88]

This reminds me of a conspiracy theory some colleagues tried to perpetuate at work in Dublin in the early 90s, when it was thought a disproportionately large share of, if not all, the company's directors were protestant. One guy came in one morning excited to share the nugget of crucial information he had just discovered: director X's son plays cricket for Trinity! He must be protestant. My mate replied "yes, but X's sister is a nun!". I think the conspiracy theory ended there.

[seanfhear]

This reminds me of a conspiracy theory some colleagues tried to perpetuate at work in Dublin in the early 90s, when it was thought a disproportionately large share of, if not all, the company's directors were protestant. One guy came in one morning excited to share the nugget of crucial information he had just discovered: director X's son plays cricket for Trinity! He must be protestant. My mate replied "yes, but X's sister is a nun!". I think the conspiracy theory ended there.
Nun or no nun, we want you to play for Ireland. All are welcome.

[Lionel Ritchie]

This reminds me of a conspiracy theory some colleagues tried to perpetuate at work in Dublin in the early 90s, when it was thought a disproportionately large share of, if not all, the company's directors were protestant. One guy came in one morning excited to share the nugget of crucial information he had just discovered: director X's son plays cricket for Trinity! He must be protestant. My mate replied "yes, but X's sister is a nun!". I think the conspiracy theory ended there.

Perhaps they were Anglicans. Though they're just 'Diet-Catholics' really aren't they.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No, you should be treating them differently if they've already played for Northern Ireland.
But with the North or anyone else, they're eligible until they've played one competitive game as defined by FIFA/DI/Pred above.100 friendly caps and they can still switch....
Can't believe this tired mantra is still being put forward by people, contrary to the definition.


Why would you argue that? Northern Ireland probably isn't the best/ biggest source of players from outside the country: there are likely to be more in England, unlikely to play for them and thus less likely to cause a fuss if they declare for the South.

It is now. Given its entire male population are eligible!!! ;) Well bar around 200 people, most of whom no longer live there anyway.

The only 'fuss' about this is made by the paranoid.
Surely they should want people who actually want to play rather than forcing nationalists, catholics and anyone who's more enlightened to play for their dubious team. And by the 'South', do you mean Korea??


And yes, most Irish prods, as in C. Of I. are indeed 'Diet-RC'.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The basic difference is that unionists in the South were a small minority who accepted the Free State/ Republic; nationalists in NI a larger one who didn't.

Except 'unionists' in the Ireland to which you refer(wrongly) tend to be defined more by a notional economic status (as in believing they're 'better off' with the Brits), rather than having anything to do with religion. For which I would have some sympathy.

Virtually all of the C Of I. people I know are more than happy living with a notional Catholic majority(diminishing by the day). And their paranoid equivalents up North and elsewhere forget the long history of Irish Protestants being involved
in the struggles of Irish nationalism.
Unfortunately the Scots who planted themselves in the North were not so open-minded....

[Gather round]

Can't believe this tired mantra is still being put forward by people, contrary to the definition

Says the man who posts the same tired old mantra 100-200 times on every extended NI thread ;)


It is now. Given its entire male population are eligible!!! ;) Well bar around 200 people, most of whom no longer live there anyway

I know they're eligible; so is anyone in England, Germany or Timbuktu with an Irish granny. England will remain your largest source of players from outside the Republic largely because it's about 30 times more populous than NI.


The only 'fuss' about this is made by the paranoid

I'm arguing it (no more fussily than you) because I think playing international football for one country should prevent you then playing for another. Quite simple really.


Surely they should want people who actually want to play rather than forcing nationalists, catholics and anyone who's more enlightened to play for their dubious team

We want people who have already played for NI to continue to play for NI. No-one is forcing anyone to play. Stop posting cartoon Provo nonsense.


Except 'unionists' in the Ireland to which you refer(wrongly) tend to be defined more by a notional economic status (as in believing they're 'better off' with the Brits), rather than having anything to do with religion. For which I would have some sympathy

I'm sure they're delighted with your sympathy, but how is it relevant to what I said? I didn't mention religion, merely recognising that a) there were unionists in what became the Free State, but b) they broadly accepted it.


Virtually all of the C Of I. people I know are more than happy living with a notional Catholic majority(diminishing by the day)

That's nice for them.


And their paranoid equivalents up North and elsewhere forget the long history of Irish Protestants being involved
in the struggles of Irish nationalism. Unfortunately the Scots who planted themselves in the North were not so open-minded....

I think not. We learned about them at school, and there are regular TV docs etc.

Anyway, shouldn't you be packing for Yerevan? A whole new market for your ramblings. PS probably best not to sing Turkish Song of the Damned in any kara-uke bars.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Says the man who posts the same tired old mantra 100-200 times on every extended NI thread.
Rather more an Information service for the Ignorant and the paranoid with amnesia!
Though you doo need to learn to count. As it's more like 10-20 times in total


England will remain your largest source of players from outside the Republic largely because it's about 30 times more populous than NI.
Hmm, you're saying the whole population of England can play for Ireland? Yeah, right....
There's a good few who can't even play for their host country FFS.


I'm arguing it (no more fussily than you) because I think playing international football for one country should prevent you then playing for another.
Except FIFA/UEFA/The CAS don't agree.... And sounds incredibly pompous(as usual) to think you know better.
Lol.


Stop posting cartoon Provo nonsense.
Tom & Gerry??
No-one knows WTF yer on about. Except it does highlight paranoia! ;)


That's nice for them.
It's more relevant because they actually know.


We learned about them at school, and there are regular TV docs etc.
Yeah like the British state and certain Northern prods make even the slightest effort to acknowledge. It's contrary to their whole agenda.

[Predator]

your ignorance knows no bounds.Says the guy who struggled valiantly to (mis)understand FIFA's statutes regarding national team eligibility even after they had been explained in excruciating detail. This is the same guy who still fails to grasp the fairly basic concept of nationality/citizenship and what that entails.


Unlike Northern Ireland, as one can only play for the RoI with Irish citizenship, it'd be pretty difficult to expect those who don't want to make a political statement to do so.
Slow down. Your frenzied posts don't make sense.

Also would threaten the FAI's pretence that all they do is wait beside a phone, as Jonny Evans' public statements proved.Can you take it beyond weak speculation and prove that the FAI were actively pursuing players from the north? Lazily claiming that Liam Brady or John Delaney are the 'child-catchers' doesn't quite cut it. Even so, what's the problem? These players are eligible and that is absolutely unequivocal; any ambiguity was cleared up in the CAS case that the IFA paid for. As such, the FAI would be entirely justified in pursuing players born in the north.

Regarding Jonny Evans' supposed 'public statements', can you tell us more about that, or is this another one of your smokescreens?


Nah, better to concentrate on the young nationalists, now where's my big book of Catholic-sounding names?Boo hoo. Your nonsense is almost as amusing as it is tiresome. I don't like to subscribe to ridiculous notions, but you can if that is your preference. I prefer to think that the FAI, like the IFA will (hopefully) select the best players who are eligible and, most importantly, willing to play.

[Gather round]

Rather more an Information service for the Ignorant and the paranoid with amnesia! Though you doo need to learn to count. As it's more like 10-20 times in total

Not so. On the current Eligibility thread, you've posted 192 times, in almost every case just wittering inanely about paranoia, planters, anecdotage which you've made up or imagined and rank-pulling based on your claimed expertise. Why don't you just get a room with FHTB and shout at each other?


Hmm, you're saying the whole population of England can play for Ireland? Yeah, right....There's a good few who can't even play for their host country FFS

No, I'm saying that the large majority of the Republic of Ireland's internationals from outside the country are likely to be from England, as they are now. Do try and read what others post before you go off on one?


Except FIFA/UEFA/The CAS don't agree.... And sounds incredibly pompous(as usual) to think you know better.
Lol

It's not in the least pompous to disagree with FIFA and UEFA, as the FAI and a large proportion of your fans were doing hysterically at the end of last year and since.


Tom & Gerry??

Aye, O'Fee and Adams will do as your inspirations, I suppose.


No-one knows WTF yer on about. Except it does highlight paranoia! ;)

I think other readers- and the mods who've kicked you off this and other forums on multiple occasions- know well enough, actually. They can't all be paranoid.


It's more relevant because they actually know

They know what? Not sure what point you're making here: I'm merely saying that there were unionists in what became the Free State, then broadly accepted it. Probably largely due to their small number.


Yeah like the British state and certain Northern prods make even the slightest effort to acknowledge. It's contrary to their whole agenda

I've just acknowledged it. I, like all my contemporaries learned about it at. Kids nowadays will see it covered in the media regularly. It doesn't really even contradict any ideology, merely acknowledging that there have long been both unionists and nationalists, or similar earlier groups.