Israel At Home [Archive]

Plastic Paddy

21/04/2004, 4:56 PM

Some bad news: Israel have been given permission by UEFA to play their qualifiers at home. Tel Aviv will not be the easiest place to go get a result. Would have much preferred to play them in a nutural venue.

Is anyone going to travel to this? I don't fancy it much.

They were always going to play their game against us there as FIFA had previously given them permission to play all their WC2006 home qualifiers in Israel.

There's no way I'd go there, not with Sharon hell-bent on goading the Palestinians and the wider Arab world into all-out war. But I digress...

:) PP

Robinski

21/04/2004, 5:07 PM

I heard it this afternoon too and there's a statement on the FAI site 'welcoming the news'.

I know every home fan (doesn't matter where you're from) has the right to see their team play on home soil but frankly, this is one fixture I'll be skipping.

Begs to wonder how large the FAI corporate group travelling to that one will be.

Declan_Michael

21/04/2004, 5:16 PM

Wonder if the players have reservations about this? Wasn't there a similar issue with Chelsea players a few years back?

liam88

21/04/2004, 5:30 PM

Is anyone going to travel to this? I don't fancy it much.

I'll be 16 so if my parents let me go I think it'd be one heck of an experience. I am signing up for a gap year programme at a hostpital in Jeruselam anyway.......not sure what Israeli fans are like though?

The Legend

21/04/2004, 5:44 PM

I am signing up for a gap year programme at a hostpital in Jeruselam anyway

Fair Play to ya... you sound like one crazy mofo!

Beavis

21/04/2004, 5:56 PM

Begs to wonder how large the FAI corporate group travelling to that one will be.

:confused:

I'm going.Obviously would have preferred Cyprus but what can you do.
Won't take any public transport(taxi's everywhere) and won't be staying to see the sights,just in for the game and if possible out the same day.
Flights are cheaper than I expected provided you go from London...

brendy_éire

21/04/2004, 9:26 PM

Setting aside the chance of violence (it's probably not as bad as ye think, judging by what people thought of the north and the reality of it), I wouldn't go on principle. I don't want to give any of my money to the Israeli economy or help fund Sharon's oppression of the Palestinian by paying taxes to his government. They shouldn't be in UEFA anyway.

Beavis

21/04/2004, 11:16 PM

[QUOTE=brendy_éire] I don't want to give any of my money to the Israeli economy or help fund Sharon's oppression of the Palestinian by paying taxes to his government[QUOTE]

Let's get some perspective here...By wanting to follow the national side,your hardly endorsing Israeli occupation,methods,poilicies,Sharon,Netinyahoo or anything else since the states formation.I just want to see the football first hand.

lopez

22/04/2004, 12:28 AM

I'll be 16 so if my parents let me go I think it'd be one heck of an experience. I am signing up for a gap year programme at a hostpital in Jeruselam anyway.......not sure what Israeli fans are like though?Big up Liam! I was 18 when I went to the ZOP in 84 in much more peacefull times even though when I popped down to Jerusalem there was a shoot-out in the morning and I got my a*se pinched by a souvenir shopkeeper in the afternoon. :eek: I was hoping for a neutral venue this time just out of pure selfishness as I'll give this one a miss. My Haj has been fulfilled and I will return to the Mount of Olives at Armegeddon, or whatever. Look, the Holy Land is a top place to visit: Shame it's currently run by a bunch of nazis. Stop the carping and f*ck the economics: How many here have visited the great satan on the other side of the pond. As for the hospital gap year lark: Good luck.

Big up also to Mordechai Vanunu! :D

tricky_colour

22/04/2004, 1:30 AM

Very bad news, I would not be going anyway but I certaintly would
not go there, not in the current climate.
It will be prime target for terrorists, just like the Moscow? Olympics.
Catholics and Jews in the same stadium.
Wouldn't be surprised if Roys hip injury flares up for this one, I doubt
Fergie will be to happy sending O'Shea either.

I am surprised they didn't arrange it in Faluhja? to prove it was safe.

Bloody madness :rolleyes:

only1kilbane

22/04/2004, 8:01 AM

If it goes ahead in Israel and a lot can change by the time we play them next March I for one will be going. CAnt wait its a place id never visit otherwise so football gives us the chance. Will be an interesting experience to say the least but prob just do an overnighter maybe ..

Bowsy

22/04/2004, 8:50 AM

Don't think this one's for me. Haven't got enough Karma left to be catching buses in Tel Aviv. Fair play to Liam88 and only1kilabne though. You'll be part a select but noble few.

Éanna

22/04/2004, 1:54 PM

Let's get some perspective here...By wanting to follow the national side,your hardly endorsing Israeli occupation,methods,poilicies,Sharon,Netinyahoo or anything else since the states formation.I just want to see the football first hand.
the very existence of Israel endorses those policies because the country's founding is based on kicking palestinians out of their homes and shooting them if they argue. Israel should be boycotted and shunned in every way possible. I look forward to booing their national anthem loudly at Landsdowne Road

lopez

22/04/2004, 2:06 PM

the very existence of Israel endorses those policies because the country's founding is based on kicking palestinians out of their homes and shooting them if they argue. Israel should be boycotted and shunned in every way possible. I look forward to booing their national anthem loudly at Landsdowne RoadWhat about the US? Kicking out and murdering the indigenous people! Australia? Canada? Even Ireland if you go back far enough.

I'm no supporter of the ZOP, but as Europeans, let's take some of the responsibility for this mess. From the time my forefathers kicked the Jews out of Spain/converted to Catholicism on pain of expulsion or worse (take your pick really) to Heydrich's final solution, we've hardly made life easy for the Jews. Even in Ireland, that beacon of tolerance. X amount of Jews have been kicked out of Arabic countries since 1948 - many wealthy but arriving with nothing but their a*ses in the ZOP. Have these countries done anything to house the Palestinians in the homes of their former citizens. No, it's far more beneficial to have them dumped in refugee camps.

Éanna

22/04/2004, 2:25 PM

sylvo

22/04/2004, 2:31 PM

:confused:

I'm going.Obviously would have preferred Cyprus but what can you do.
Won't take any public transport(taxi's everywhere) ..

Defo with taking the taxi's dude, rather do a couple of hour's waiting for a taxi ala Dublin on a weekend night then trusting the local transport.
Think i'll leave this one out, and would go along with what Davros said :eek: for people going to leave travel arrangment's till as near as possible, had all that with Belgrade and Macadonia during the Kosavo crisis with the match's being cancelled at the last minute and rightly so cosidering in the situation, and there's every chance it could happon again with this one.

lopez

22/04/2004, 4:12 PM

You're spot on there, no arguing with you. Europe is responsible to a large degree for the mess the world is in right now as far as I'm concerned. However, the way to atone for past mistakes is to show others what we did wrong and help them not to make the same mistakes- not actively fund them repeating our mistakes.A good definition I once heard of the ZOP is of someone being thrown out of the first floor of his own house and who lands on someone else consequently breaking his arm. The person with the broken arm rightly complains and so the person thrown out of the window breaks the other arm while the one who threw him out laughs and shuts the window behind him.

I share peoples' atitudes NOT about the legitimacy of a Jewish State but where that state is. If the (Euro-American) UN were so concerned about founding a Jewish state they should have made one in Europe or North America, not on someone else's land because of some mystical land 2,000 years ago that most Jews have no link with whatsoever. Anyway it's a complicated argument and there's enough of those about Ireland. For once I'm with the 'keep sport out of politics' brigade only because IMO the Jews are not solely responsible for this mayhem, although they can do more to solve it than breaking any more bones.

SÓC

22/04/2004, 4:18 PM

finlma

22/04/2004, 4:31 PM

What will happen when Israel play in Dublin?

I've read on other board that people will try to boo their national anthem which I think would be a real shame. It would just make us look like the ignorant english yobs who do it at every one of their games.

If everyone in the stadium turned their backs during it tho...

Politics and sport shouldn't mix but sometimes you have to make a stand. Rugby teams didn't go to SA during the Aparthite years and in my opinion no one should go to Israel at the moment because of what they're doing but we can't forgoe qualifying for the WC for that murderous regime.

I think some form of protest against Israel at Lansdowne would be a good idea. I don't support booing a National Anthem either but if some sort of banner could be created and held up by individuals in the crowd during their anthem. I can't see who'd create these banners, maybe SF in their support of the Palestenians.

tricky_colour

22/04/2004, 5:05 PM

:confused:

I'm going.Obviously would have preferred Cyprus but what can you do.
Won't take any public transport(taxi's everywhere) and won't be staying to see the sights,just in for the game and if possible out the same day.
Flights are cheaper than I expected provided you go from London...

If you are worried about public transport you should not go,
the crowds at a football statium are likely to be a prime target,
certaintly as easy or easier to target than bus.

Beavis

22/04/2004, 6:32 PM

I share peoples' atitudes NOT about the legitimacy of a Jewish State but where that state is. If the (Euro-American) UN were so concerned about founding a Jewish state they should have made one in Europe or North America, .

The Jews would not have considered anywhere but Palestine to create the state .It was decided upon as early as 1896 at the first Zionist Congress that this would be the location of a jewish homeland.The Ottoman Empire was in decline and it seemed like only a matter of time before it came into possesion of the west (which it did following WW1)

If you are worried about public transport you should not go,
the crowds at a football statium are likely to be a prime target,
certaintly as easy or easier to target than bus.

The threat of violence is not something that would really bother me tbh.If you can take a simple precuationary measure such as avoiding public transport then why not.As Brendy said it probaly seems worse from the media coverage than it actually is.
The main reason I'm going is that in a few years when I'll hopefully have settled down,have a 9-5 ,a mortgage,2.4 children etc it may be difficult to get to away games.So while I have the chance,I'm trying to get to as many as possible...

lopez

22/04/2004, 8:53 PM

The Jews would not have considered anywhere but Palestine to create the state .It was decided upon as early as 1896 at the first Zionist Congress that this would be the location of a jewish homeland.The Ottoman Empire was in decline and it seemed like only a matter of time before it came into possesion of the west (which it did following WW1)The majority of Jews 100 years ago were perfectly happy where they were and saw their religion as compatible with their own citizenship. Hundreds, if not thousands of Jews fought for Germany in WW1. The Zionists initially called for a 'homeland' which in those times could have been like the Orange Free State in South Africa or Quebec. Hitler changed that. The holocaust suggested strongly that the only way Jews could be safe was to have their own state.

My point is that the ancestral connection with Palestine is bogus for the vast majority of Jews and that their claim to Palestine is flawed (as flawed as Christians claiming the land): Therefore why should their homeland be in the near east. Ashkenazim Jews are descended from the 8th century conversion of the King of Kazars in the Caucuses and you also have to take in the many conversions (proselytising and the freeing of slaves on conversion was common in medieval Spain) and intermarriage. In fact I'd go so far to suggest that Hitler, who based his hatred of Jews purely on racial lines, probably killed thousands of 'Aryans' in his bid to rid Europe of Jews

The Legend

22/04/2004, 8:57 PM

And i thought this was a soccer forum! :ball:

ElSieteSecretos

22/04/2004, 9:51 PM

I hate israel ! with all their state violance ... i dont want to travel to Tel aviv :(

And they should never allowed into the EU

yur man

22/04/2004, 10:13 PM

didnt a lot of danes buy tickets to their home game against them last year and then stayed outside the stadium in protest

i like the turning your back to the anthem idea

i would do it if i was there

Beavis

23/04/2004, 12:37 AM

why should their homeland be in the near east

AFAIK the Jewish explaination is that no other peoples had ever established a national homeland there since the Jews had done it 3,000 years before when it was the Kingdom of David and Solomon......hardly sufficient grounds for the creation of a 20th century state!!
Thats about the only explaination they have that doesn't involve the words 'chosen people'....

:ball:

lopez

23/04/2004, 8:28 AM

AFAIK the Jewish explaination is that no other peoples had ever established a national homeland there since the Jews had done it 3,000 years before when it was the Kingdom of David and Solomon......hardly sufficient grounds for the creation of a 20th century state!!
Thats about the only explaination they have that doesn't involve the words 'chosen people'....Exactly!

i like the turning your back to the anthem idea. i would do it if i was thereSo do I, but the LRd crowd are more interested in what British clubs their players play for (or have played for) before deciding such a political act. :mad:

sylvo

23/04/2004, 10:52 AM

[QUOTE=yur man]didnt a lot of danes buy tickets to their home game against them last year and then stayed outside the stadium in protest

They did indeed.

Paddy Ramone

23/04/2004, 11:17 AM

I share peoples' atitudes NOT about the legitimacy of a Jewish State but where that state is. If the (Euro-American) UN were so concerned about founding a Jewish state they should have made one in Europe or North America, not on someone else's land because of some mystical land 2,000 years ago that most Jews have no link with whatsoever.

What I can't understand is why an agnostic like Conor Cruise O'Brien can be such a strong supporter of Israel. If it can't be proved that there's a God as O'Brien believes, what claim do the Jews have to Palestine?

thecorner

24/04/2004, 10:54 PM

we honestly cant expect keano to travel out there

cant have of one our senior players going out there for a game

lopez

25/04/2004, 9:54 AM

Look make yer mind up,FFS,Either you want the pr*ck to play or not.......!Me thinks the corner was TTP, amigo: Just forgot to put on a smilie like this at the end. :D

lopez

25/04/2004, 12:35 PM

Agreed.....but you know Fergie,pro-Keane brigade et al...... :rolleyes:Those lot will be saying 'Can't go because Man Ure are playing The Wheeltappers and Shunters FC in the cup on Saturday' or 'playing for Celtic against even worse opposition' as is the most likely outcome. :rolleyes: