Larry Murphy released

[Dunny]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0812/murphyl.html

[the 12 th man]

Something wrong if this piece of filth can just walk out of jail after the crime(s) he committed after such a short time and will be unaccounted for if he has no fixed abode.

[dahamsta]

12 th, I'd appreciate less of the "piece of filth" rhetoric. You're able to express yourself without the Star level crap, so do so please.

[old git]

12 th, I'd appreciate less of the "piece of filth" rhetoric. You're able to express yourself without the Star level crap, so do so please.

dhamasta no disrespect but i think most people on here would agree with 12th mans views

[awec]

What else can you call a rapist and a man who tried to kill someone?

10 years is a joke too.

[Macy]

12 th, I'd appreciate less of the "piece of filth" rhetoric. You're able to express yourself without the Star level crap, so do so please.
I wouldn't disagree with rhetoric, to be honest.

Him getting out, with very limited accountability (whatever RTE's Garda Reynolds makes out), shows something very wrong with the handling of rape cases. The only move made by the Government in this area has been to pilot a project that gives them even more remission for undergoing treatment (another St. Lenihan of Dublin West "achievement").

There's a great deal of fear over here in East Wicklow (one of the unsolved cases was in Enniskerry) - I can only imagine what it's like across the mountains in West Wicklow, Kildare and Carlow. Whether that should be the case, I'm not sure, but I know there's very little faith in the cops keeping on top of him. Because he's high risk, he's going to be monitored once a month, ffs.

[the 12 th man]

There's a great deal of fear over here in East Wicklow (one of the unsolved cases was in Enniskerry) - I can only imagine what it's like across the mountains in West Wicklow.

That's where I live Macy (West Wicklow) and nobody wants to see this person again,he stalked the girl for a month before doing what he did so is no opportunist.From all known reports he's walked out the door of the prison the same guy who went in (no rehab/remorse) which is a serious concern.

[Dodge]

As a committeed bleeding heart liberal, I'd have no problem with any lynch mob beatings/murder this evening or over the next few weeks. No qualms at all.

Really do despise the media whipping up a frenzy in the way they are, and I do think they instill more fear than awareness, but if it means this filth (justified IMO) doesn't get to rape another woman. So be it. Ridiculous strawman logic if may be, but again, I don't mind what that says about me

[Macy]

That's where I live Macy (West Wicklow) and nobody wants to see this person again
Yep, was aware of that. Today there seems to be an attempt to hang the fear being media generated (from RTE who obviously see themselves as not being the media). However, where I work has a fair few from West Wicklow and they've been talking about the release for a long time (long before the media really went to town from what I'm aware of).

[Dodge]

Today there seems to be an attempt to hang the fear being media generated (from RTE who obviously see themselves as not being the media). However, where I work has a fair few from West Wicklow and they've been talking about the release for a long time (long before the media really went to town from what I'm aware of).

Sorry, but I didn't mean to suggest there are peole without genuine fears, particularly in the Wicklow region, but scenes such as those in Coolock are more likely to be a product of a combination of a bad TV3 documentary, some gutter journalism and rumours and hearsay.

And again, if it means he never gets to lay a finger on anyone else. I'll live it with

[Macy]

Sorry, but I didn't mean to suggest there are peole without genuine fears, particularly in the Wicklow region, but scenes such as those in Coolock are more likely to be a product of a combination of a bad TV3 documentary, some gutter journalism and rumours and hearsay.

Well it wasn't actually a response to your post. However, the cops should just say they know where he is and he's under survelliance. They're being over secretive, which is feeding stuff like happened in Coolock. And stuff like "he'll be checked once a month" really doesn't cut it.

[dahamsta]

I don't care whether ye agree with me or not, this isn't the Star and I don't want to see it become like the Star.

If you can't express yourself without sounding like a rag newspaper, don't express yourself. This isn't really a suggestion.

Seriously, ye're adults, ye can do better. Raise the bar.

[MeathDrog]

You cannot be serious?

[Aberdonian Stu]

In fairness, I'm on dahamsta's side on this one. There is no need to resort to tabloidese to explain what type of reprehensible individual Murphy is.

[centre mid]

Ivor Callely must wish he had been released two weeks earlier.

[dahamsta]

+1 on "reprehensible individual"

[Dodge]

In fairness, I'm on dahamsta's side on this one. There is no need to resort to tabloidese to explain what type of reprehensible individual Murphy is.

If this site was based on only "needed" comments it#d be fairly quiet. Sure even dahamsta regularly refers to the Taoiseach as a pig****er

[dahamsta]

This is current affairs, can we focus on the current affair in hand please? Seriously, the procedural discussions get a bit tiresome at times. Move on for god's sake.

[Fr Damo]

Interesting piece in the SINDO yesterday. They had a tip off on Friday that Murphy was on the 7am train to Cork from Dub. The reporter in Cork (female and who's name I can't recall) was called and told to tail him. She discovered he was going back to Dublin on another train. After much searching for him through the carraiges she eventually discovered him sleeping. He was at a table by himself and pretty much blended in with the thirty somthing traksiut wearing train customers (so much so she had trouble finding him)

She reckoned on about 6 or 7 plain clothed detectives also on his tail ( at what cost? ) and only when he got off in Dublin did she ask him was he Larry Murphy. He smiled and replied no before running and getting into a waiting car. She and her collegue though long and hard about questioning him on the train but I think to have done that would have led to a lynching and with six or seven garda and maybe a standard issue fire arm or two that would not have ended well!

IMHO..All of this media attention, public anger and comment is going to drive Murphy over the edge and as he doesn't have the balls to top him self I feel it is only a matter of time for him to flip again. I don't know how the probation board works but suffice to say, surley if they thought this through properely a loop hole should have been made so he was not eligible for time off in liue of good beheviour. After all, our legislaters are good at bending rules in other situations.

[charliesboots]

It's nothing to do with the probation services, its to do with the automatic granting of 25% remission to all persons serving a term of imprisonment of over one month.

The fact is that Murphy was sentenced to 15 years imprisonment with one year suspended so that equals 14 years. 25% of that is three and half years meaning he had to serve ten and a half years. He wasn't released early as most of the media reported and he didn't only serve ten years of a fifteen year sentence.

If remission didn't apply then controlling prisons would be next to impossible. In the UK prisoners are entitled to 50% remission automatically. Prisoners can lose remission through bad behaviour and thus it encourages them to behave well in prison. All judges are aware of the proportion of remission that will apply to each sentence when they are passing sentence.

I have the utmost sympathy for people who are in fear because of his release but the furore and frenzy surrounding it has been created by the media to make the public afraid and to sell more newspapers.

The only way he can be sent back to prison at this point would be if he breached the terms of his suspended sentence (which is normally to keep the peace and be of good behaviour) or if he breaches the conditions of being on the sex offenders register.

[Fr Damo]

Thanks for that Charlie. I understand the carrot approcah and why it's used and to also the judge factors this in when sentancing but that the bit that's bugs me. Rape,attempted murder and no remorse amounts to 10 years bird? Am I reading this correctly?

And with those undeniable factors every loop hole and dare i say it "stroke" should have been pulled to keep him inside. Lest we forget he is the prime suspect in three other cases, there are still 6 or so other girls missing and the incidences stopped when he went down. I really don't want to be right on this but how can a Govener act in the publics interest letting out a rapist and potential murderer knowing in his heart of hearts in all likly hood he will offend again, or
am I watching too much Criminal minds?

Murphy is not even with this house and has further debt to be paid.

[OneRedArmy]

Thanks for that Charlie. I understand the carrot approcah and why it's used and to also the judge factors this in when sentancing but that the bit that's bugs me. Rape,attempted murder and no remorse amounts to 10 years bird? Am I reading this correctly?

And with those undeniable factors every loop hole and dare i say it "stroke" should have been pulled to keep him inside. Lest we forget he is the prime suspect in three other cases, there are still 6 or so other girls missing and the incidences stopped when he went down. I really don't want to be right on this but how can a Govener act in the publics interest letting out a rapist and potential murderer knowing in his heart of hearts in all likly hood he will offend again, or
am I watching too much Criminal minds?

Murphy is not even with this house and has further debt to be paid.We're all "potential" murderers FFS.....

I agree that the sentence was low, but by advocating that "any stroke should have been pulled" your just supporting the failed legal system that has got us where we are now. The indictment here is on the guards, judiciary and legal system. We can't and shouldn't let mob rule, the media, or inconsistent approaches to justice act as a surrogate.

I know I've said this before, and its not directly related, but its sickens me every time one of these gangland criminals gets done in and within 2 or 3 hours "a gardai source" is able to give a list of murders and other illegal activities they were allegedly involved in, yet never even charged with, never mind convicted!!! If its that obvious, every participant in the judicial process should be ashamed that a conviction hasn't been secured.

The Murphy case is no different really. Either we are a democracy in which people are presumed innocent unless convicted otherwise, and to whom everyone is entitled to a defence in court, or we aren't.

Oh, and don't get me started on the "if one life is saved by implementing such and such a rule, then its a small price to pay......." . Horsecrap. Rules aren't made based on one single event. Life is tough, humans can be bloody evil to each other when they put their mind to it, and no amount of legislation, jail time, hanging, torture or any other intervention has been proven to make much of a difference.

[Kingdom]

The Larry Murphy situation is quite depressing for a couple of specific reasons. Firstly it seems this case and the media coverage it has received for a while now has been behind govt efforts to improve the circumstances in which sentences can be commutted; it shouldn't take one case like that to highlight the inadequacies, it should just be done because it's the correct thing to do. He reportedly has not enrolled on a sex therapy course while in arbour hill - I would have assumed that would be mandatory for a person like him to do in order for a reduction in his sentence. Secondly, there are two very involved other parties in this case: his estranged immediate family & his victim. Their lives have been turned on its head again, more than likely not long after they would be coming to terms with what happened in the first place.

Not for any particular reason I've followed to a large degree the Larry Murphy case, the other cases that make up Operation Trace and a few other "missings". For some reason the Cairns case in the mid 80's was always mentioned in our house as a warning when we'd be going off somewhere and I suppose it triggered an interest for me.

While I hope to God I don't jinx anything, I'd be very surprised if Larry Murphy was to lose his cool now, and either flip out or commit suicide. This is an extremely calculating man, and really it was only bad luck on his part which lead to him being caught and a woman being murdered. The ironic part of that was one of the two men that happened upon the attempt, his wife had been in some sort of an incident with Murphy in a pub a few weeks earlier.
Anyone with any kind of knowledge of the wicklow mountains knows how quickly it is to escape up there during the day, whereas at night there are areas where you could go about your business undisturbed for hours on end. Had those two fellows not been in the wrong place at the wrong time, then that Carlow woman would be up there also. That is almost with question. In that regard it's so terribly upsetting to think of how many of those girls are up there and will never be found.
I'm living in the midlands the past few years and with the hours I work would find myself doing all sorts at all hours (such as typing this drivel) and often would go off for an hour or more cycling just to use up energy. There can be some pretty weird sh*t going on, and this area is quite isolated for miles on end. If you were of the tendancy that Larry Murphy was, and had a really good working knowledge of the many backroads around here, which Murphy did, well you can plan a lot.
In that regard the link between Murphy and other missing girls is very worrying, and while I understand completely that the Garda would prefer for the public to believe the cases are all still open and not linked to this case, from reading some garda comments in a couple of different books, it's more of a probability than a possibility that he was involved. I read previously that he broke down uncontrollably on one occasion after his arrest (or possibly after his incarcaration) when being quizzed on certain cases, but that for some reason the interview was suspended, and the moment lost. It's noteworthy purely from the aspect of his calm demeanour over a prolonged period of time when real stress would have been placed on him.

It is totally understandable that random punters would be upset at the thought of this guy being in their area. I'm not trying to be an expert, as I have no real understanding of this kind of behaviour, but I do not believe he will stay clear of trouble. Sooner or later he will harm a woman somewhere (look up the case of robert howard - as deplorable an individual as one would come across). It's in his nature it would seem. I was going to say that it would nearly have been better off had he been caught a little later so that his sentence would have been the max, but there's no justifying that at all. It's just very sad.

Just to add I agree with ORA's sentiments. The law, however flawed, has to be upheld, until it is constitutionally changed. At the end of the day, until evidence is produced to say this man was involved in any other crimes, then all of this thread is just opinion. However if he isn't involved, then there are potentially 6 seperate murderers still in society, in the midlands who committed as heinous a crime as can be done for no reason whatsoever. That's far more scary than the prospect of Larry Murphy.

[Fr Damo]

[QUOTE=OneRedArmy;1388666]We're all "potential" murderers FFS.....

I agree that the sentence was low, but by advocating that "any stroke should have been pulled" your just supporting the failed legal system that has got us where we are now. The indictment here is on the guards, judiciary and legal system. We can't and shouldn't let mob rule, the media, or inconsistent approaches to justice act as a surrogate.



ORA I thought I qualified the potential part by also using the word Rapist so that sets him apart more than slightly.
As kingdom says the gut feeling of many is this guy will re offend eventually and therefore it isn't incarcination for punishemnt but rather to keep him out of the popualtion i was getting at.
For the record I agree with your viwes on establishing a robust and fair justice system and therefore not have state interference but in this instance I would be happy with mob rule. 10 years for attempted murder FFS

[OneRedArmy]

ORA I thought I qualified the potential part by also using the word Rapist so that sets him apart more than slightly.
As kingdom says the gut feeling of many is this guy will re offend eventually and therefore it isn't incarcination for punishemnt but rather to keep him out of the popualtion i was getting at.
For the record I agree with your viwes on establishing a robust and fair justice system and therefore not have state interference but in this instance I would be happy with mob rule. 10 years for attempted murder FFSI think you've just reinforced my point.

[Fr Damo]

Yes it's flawed,,,,We Jail debt defaulters incurring further cost,,,,, but going through the hoops to get this type of thing changed will only give Murphys and others like him more time to plan their next event.
Only Murphy can truly know if he will re offend, if you are certain he won't and stand by your ideolistic bordering on passive opinion good luck. This guy is a guilty rapist, prime suspect in the disappearance of other women presumed dead, and has never undergone treatment. I am sorry but whereever he is today is less safe than it was last week.

[OneRedArmy]

Yes it's flawed,,,,We Jail debt defaulters incurring further cost,,,,, but going through the hoops to get this type of thing changed will only give Murphys and others like him more time to plan their next event.
Only Murphy can truly know if he will re offend, if you are certain he won't and stand by your ideolistic bordering on passive opinion good luck. This guy is a guilty rapist, prime suspect in the disappearance of other women presumed dead, and has never undergone treatment. I am sorry but whereever he is today is less safe than it was last week.What is a "prime suspect"? How would you measure, quantify or demonstrate safety when you say "less safe"?

If I'm guilty of being idealistic (surely in itself the ultimate subjective accusation?), you're applying subjective and personal opinions and attempting to create a legal framework around them.

People sometimes forget that our violent crime remains low by comparison with other many other developed nations. That doesn't excuse not improving our legal system, but unlike 90% of this thread, its a quantitatively grounded fact.

[Fr Damo]

What is a "prime suspect"? How would you measure, quantify or demonstrate safety when you say "less safe"?

If I'm guilty of being idealistic (surely in itself the ultimate subjective accusation?), you're applying subjective and personal opinions and attempting to create a legal framework around them.

People sometimes forget that our violent crime remains low by comparison with other many other developed nations. That doesn't excuse not improving our legal system, but unlike 90% of this thread, its a quantitatively grounded fact.



As "one" is a PRIME number it means No1 and only suspect. I wasn't attempting to create any legal framework, I am not that smart, just offering my opinion on a forum which I guess is designed for people to air their opinion. Yes it leads to debate as much of it subjective and scaremongering by the red tops doesn't help but here are some facts,
rapists continue to rape until they are caught or stopped, it's chemical. A small % murder their victims to conceal the act but more worringly for further gratifiaction.
Murphy has only been convicted of one Rape and attempted murder, did he mess up first time and the Guards get lucky?

[Macy]

A couple points....
There's no point in forcing people into treatment - it won't work. Making the link with remission should be done, but to get the 25%, not to get it up to 33% as Lenihan proposed when holding that Ministry.

The only suggestion that Murphy "flipped out" came from the man himself. All the evidence suggests that it was a well planned attack. I don't think the media/ public attention will effect that one way or the other.

It has to be innocent until proven guilty, with regard to other cases. And beyond reasonable doubt is the right burden of proof imo.

My main issue specifically with this case is the ongoing monitoring. If whats reported is correct with regard to monitoring, it's totally inadequate (and not just in this case), for "high risk" offenders.

Sentencing is also an issue - why is attempted murder not a life sentence, which would've avoided the remission requirement? A lesser sentence because you weren't successful/ you got disturbed?

No doubt the media are loving it, as are the crime journo's with their coincidentally timed books. However, I would again state that there's been talk/ fear about the release for a long time locally before the national media picked up on it.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Sentencing is also an issue - why is attempted murder not a life sentence, which would've avoided the remission requirement? A lesser sentence because you weren't successful/ you got disturbed?.

Attempted murder? Now honestly, what is that? Do they give a Nobel prize for attempted chemistry? Do they?
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