Callely

[awec]

This bloke who did the expenses thing, can someone explain to me the reasoning behind why he WOULDN'T be prosecuted in a court of law?

As far as I'm aware he submitted fraudulent expenses for extra money? That's theft in my book.

Why is there the discussion about wether he should be prosecuted or not? :confused:

[osarusan]

Well, Green TD Gogarty has officially complained to the police, who are requesting clarification on some issues. (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0804/breaking9.html)

I would say the main reason that he might not be prosecuted is that there's no appetite for it in the Dail. There is no party without a few members who have their hand in the cookie jar. Even now, most of the 'outrage' is from members of his own party or their coalition partner, who are trying to maintain some facade of morality. the others are staying clear of it, in order to avoid charges of hypocrisy somewhere down the line (or being asked to meet the same standards they challenged FF to meet).

However, the general public is another issue. A parlimentary body found him guilty of deliberate deception, or something like that, and this fabrication of invoices is basically a crime. The figure of 80,000 euros is substantial too, imagine if a humble citizen was fraudulently claiming social welfare to this amount over a number of years. Even if he is prosecuted, don't expect anything like the same punishment that would be meted out in the above example. He'll pay some back, a few letters to the judge, and it quietly goes away.

[passinginterest]

Awec he's an Irish politician, they are next to the Pope in terms if infallibility, it is practically impossibly for them to commit a crime, be convicted of it and be suitably punished. As Osarusan has pointed out the corruption is so deep that the other politicos are terrified that their own misdeeds will be unearthed and they would be shown up as hypocrites if they pushed for prosecution.

It's a truly sad state of affairs.

[peadar1987]

Unfortunately you get who you vote for. Irish politicians are so complacent that they feel they can do whatever they want and not be held accountable. They're probably right.

[Macy]

There won't be any immediate closure. It suits the Government for this type of thing to rumble on as it distracts from the mess that they've made of banking (which is becoming more apparent by the week). Why talk about the issues that have cost us tens of billions, when you can be discussing Callely expenses of tens of thousands?

As for Callely, given past experience, surely he's a shoe in at the next election, following in the great footsteps of Ahern, Lawlor, Flynn, Lowry et al?

[awec]

Sounds like you really have a bad bunch down here. If someone I voted for did this I'd be calling for their head and for criminal prosecution.

The only way to end it is to take a hard stance.

[OneRedArmy]

There won't be any immediate closure. It suits the Government for this type of thing to rumble on as it distracts from the mess that they've made of banking (which is becoming more apparent by the week). Why talk about the issues that have cost us tens of billions, when you can be discussing Callely expenses of tens of thousands?

As for Callely, given past experience, surely he's a shoe in at the next election, following in the great footsteps of Ahern, Lawlor, Flynn, Lowry et al?If it was anyone else I'd agree, but in this case I don't know Macy. Biffo clearly wasn't a fan of Callely's to start with and I get the impression he's keen to get shot of him, not necessarily to show moral leadership (perish the thought), but more because he just doesn't like him.

As for him being a shoe-in at the next election, if he was from a rural constituency, I'd guarantee he'd get back into the Dail. Culchies don't take well to Dublin types telling them where to set their moral compass...... Bertie notwithstanding, I'd expect Dublin voters to show a bit more cop-on, and given what I've read about Callely, he doesn't seem the kind of person that brings in a large personal constituency vote on magnetic personality. He's likely to be expelled from the parliamentary party so even if he wanted to go back into the Dail from the Seanad he'd have to stand as an independent. I really doubt he would go through that as without party backing he has no chance.

Of course he could stand in West Cork.......

[Macy]

Don't totally disagree with you point of Cowen, but FF could've moved against him at the original expense scandal. But then again, haven't FF actually only suspended him for not taking Cowen's calls not on the expenses issue? Or that was the trigger, not the story in the paper (which in another aside took RTE several days to even put in their news reports!)

[awec]

It wasn't as if he stole a few quid, it was quite a whack of money. Surely no party would want to be associated with that and no voter would want to vote for him!

[Macy]

It wasn't as if he stole a few quid, it was quite a whack of money. Surely no party would want to be associated with that and no voter would want to vote for him!
Is my sarcasm radar broken or are you serious? The only problem FF have with him is he got caught, and if he could still get the votes they would have him back like a shot.

[awec]

I'm not from down here and therefore don't know much about the parties. Is it really that bad?

[passinginterest]

Have a Google of some of the names mentioned earlier Awec and see what they've gotten up to and how they manage to be carried shoulder high as they top the polls by record margins in their constituencies, where the attitude is "sure didn't he get that new road built and the grant for the football team and Old Mrs Murphy's hip operation, sure so what if he did a few silly things isn't he one of our own?". Sickening parish pump politics still reigns supreme in our fair land of saints and scholars.

[awec]

Yikes. In the north if that happened they'd be goosed. Peter Robinson lost his seat at Westminster cause his wife was a bit dodgy with money and took it up the wrong un from some young lad a few times!

[Macy]

In FF, he'd be leadership material. Look at the last one!

[EAFC_rdfl]

supposed to have fled the country now according to todayfm, left his family all behind in cork to deal with it though, some operator

[awec]

Ripping the **** now.

[Spudulika]

Back in October 2006 I was sitting in the public gallery as the Teflon man was getting "grilled" by the opposition. I asked my friend, who is FG and works in the Dail, what the hell is happening, why don't they go after him sure they have the evidence about his finances and funny business. She told me that "that's not what happens." Over lunch I was told that nothing would happen to him and the opposition would "give him peace" as at the end of the day what goes around comes around. If it was just Irish politics I'd be ashamed to be Irish, but it's every country. However, that said, what I'd give for capital punishment to be introduced for politicos who are on the fiddle or take - add to that football club "owners" who renege on wages, players who wish to retire to play "a little bit of football" and clubs who pretend they were conned by the same said player when he suddenly signs for another club.

[osarusan]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0824/callelyi.html

Callely resigns from Fianna Fail.


Senator Ivor Callely has resigned from the Fianna Fáil organisation.

Mr Callely informed the party this evening of his decision to resign his membership with immediate effect.
It follows a meeting today with the Fianna Fáil committee set up to inquire into matters relating to Mr Callely's controversial expenses claims.
In a statement, Mr Callely said the committee had refused an application made on his behalf for a further adjournment of the proceedings of the committee.
He said his 'resignation arose ... because of the refusal of the committee to particularize alleged conduct 'unbecoming a member' of the Fianna Fáil party.

[John83]

I have to admire his balls. It's not that he shamed a party almost immune to that sensation, it's that they were mean to him.

[Macy]

I have to admire his balls. It's not that he shamed a party almost immune to that sensation, it's that they were mean to him.
He was right to want specifics of what conduct was unbecoming, as it would show that it wasn't actually about the things the rest of us are getting worked up about. For example, I suspect it would show it was not answering Cowen's phone call (which sparked his suspension) or was it to do with not cooperating with party mechanisms?

[John83]

I want that information too Macy, but while I want to know how the main government party has continued its fine tradition of ignoring corruption, he wants to know which of the stupid and/or illegal things he's done he was being held accountable for.

[dahamsta]

I've decided that if John Gormless is going to insist on my signing a redundant form (http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0825/motor_tax.html) saying that I'll only use my van for work purposes, as is already stated in the law, he should insist on members of the goverment signing forms agreeing not to defraud the state.