Euro 2012 Qualifying Group B - General Discussion

[Wolfie]

Here we go again. A thread for general discussion on the group ahead. Just threw in our fixtures for starters.

UEFA EURO 2012 Championship - Group B Fixtures - Ireland

Armenia (A) Friday, 3 September, 2010

Andorra (H) Tuesday, 7 September, 2010

Russia (H) Friday, 8 October, 2010

Slovakia (A) Tuesday, 12 October, 2010

Macedonia (H) Saturday, 26 March, 2011

Macedonia (A) Saturday, 4 June, 2011

Slovakia (H) Friday, 2 September, 2011

Russia (A), Tuesday, 6 September, 2011

Andorra (A) Friday, 7 October, 2011

Armenia (H) Tuesday, 11 October, 2011

[shakermaker1982]

26 points would win you the group.....I think we'll get 21.

[Kingdom]

A new campaign, a new stadium, a new sponsor, a new beginning???? That's what I'm hoping for anyway.

Without getting carried away, it's definitely a winnable group, we definite can get into a top two position. The fixtures are kind for us in the games we play, but they're also kind for us in the rest of the group games too.

While not trying to disregard some of the negative aspects of the new campaign, it shouldn't be forgotten that we went to Eastern Europe and got the result that was acceptable (V Bulgaria) something we've struggled with previously, and we remained undefeated and played very well against one of the games powerhouses.
We also won a match away from home against a top tier country. We went to a place that has become extremely tough and got the full points playing poorly (Cyprus).
The team should be relatively settled in this campaign, and while a few younger faces will make things interesting, everyone should know their role and what is expected of them.
I don't think there's any point trying to predict what will happen in 2011, but by the time Russia come to Lansdowne in Oct either they or Slovakia will have dropped points (they meet in the 2nd round of games) while Slovakia may have slipped up against Macedonia in the first set of games. Either way the group can take a big movement early on, and hopefully it can be a movement in our direction.

I'm fairly positive that the guys will use the experiences of the autumn to kick on and be determined not to miss out again on another tournaement given that in 2012a lot of these fellas could be nearing the end of their international careers.
Shay, Dunney, Killer, Robbie, Duffer all probably will not start the 2014 campaign. That's a fair chunk of our first team. So in that respect it definitely is last chance saloon.
In respect of the opposition we face, despite Slovakia's showing at the world cup, Russia are the main team in the group. They have the ability on their day to tear us (and anyone) a new one. However when not on their day, they are very beatable. Technically they will be superior to us. The timing of our matches with them is good and I think we are capable of gaining an advantage over them.
Slovakia, despite all the success of the world cup, are a team I believe we can beat home and away. They have matured and developed since we last played them, but karhan and vittek aside I think we are the better team. Bratislava should hold no fear. We are relatively fortunate with the lower ranked teams we drew. No nasty bottom seeded teams this time, and Andorra should be disposed of with minimal fuss. Armenia will be sticky. On another thread I posted the results they've had the last few years in Yerevan and while they've been nothing exceptional, every once in a while they pull off a decent result, and one group in particular (2008?) they won one and drew three against the higher ranked teams. The season before (2006) their draw against one of the seeds was ultimately what knocked that team out of second place, so they do have previous.
Macedonia in June has been predicted as being a potential banana skin. I thought we coped extremely well in Bulgaria in similar conditions last year and its a trip where 3 points should be the order of the day (circumstances excepted).
Just to note as well, Armenia, Macedonia and Andorra all were drawn in the same group two campaigns ago, not that it should have much impact on things.

I'm really hopeful, I'm optimistic that the team and management will identify this as a group we can win, and will set out accordingly. One thing I do know is that there is massive interest surrounding the singing section and hopefully we can do our bit, the team do their's and we christen the maiden campaign in lansdowne accordingly.

[tetsujin1979]

Wasn't really sure where to post this article about the use of two holding midfielders in a team, dubbed the "double pivot" - http://arsenalcolumn.wordpress.com/2010/08/04/why-are-two-holding-midfielders-so-crucial-in-the-modern-game/
This thread seems as good a place as any.

What I found interesting was the short paragraph about the England - Germany game in the World Cup

England’s central midfielders in the system are both required to attack and defend (as classical box-to-box midfielders) and as a result Germany, in their 4-1 win, were able to profit in the large gaps afforded to them. “We knew that Gerrard and Lampard always support the forwards and that the midfield would be open, there would be spaces,” explained Joachim Löw after the nation’s ruthless victory.
Having seen the way that Trapattoni sets up the team, with two midfielders sitting deep more or less at all times, Germany wouldn't have had the same space to exploit, were they playing us. What might have been?

Excellent article BTW, well worth taking the time to read.

[Stuttgart88]

Don't get me going on effing "holding midfielders". Aaargh. Pirlo a holding midfielder? Schweinsteiger?

Like eskimos and their 40 different words for snow, because they recognise 40 different types, English football only seems to recognise 2 types of midfielder - holding midfielders or, eh, midfielders. This just illustrates the lack of understanding of the nuances of playing in midfield in my opinion. It's been said before here that the Italians have lots of words for midfielders, each recognising subtle differences in style & responsibility.

I like terms like defensive midfielder, attacking midfielder, ball winner, ball user, ball carrier, attacking playmaker, deep lying playmaker and so on. Far more descriptive and meaningful.

[Stuttgart88]

I think Slovakia are as likely to take 4 or 6 points from us as we are from them. I'm torn: I think we can go great guns in this group or make a total hash of it! Taking chances and cutting out sloppy errors from the likes of Kilbane & McShane (help!) will be critical. 15-20% improvement on last campain essential, but we can do that. It'll help if Russia drop silly points like Italy didn't really do, but very nearly did, last time.

[Crosby87]

It will be interesting to see how this goes. I still think anything less than 6 with the first two games will bite us in the ass down the road but i can definitely see something stupid happening in Armenia and a draw.

[Wolfie]

I think Slovakia are as likely to take 4 or 6 points from us as we are from them. I'm torn: I think we can go great guns in this group or make a total hash of it! Taking chances and cutting out sloppy errors from the likes of Kilbane & McShane (help!) will be critical. 15-20% improvement on last campain essential, but we can do that. It'll help if Russia drop silly points like Italy didn't really do, but very nearly did, last time.

I'm sad to say it but I think we need to cut out Kilbane and McShane all together - I certainly would not have either in the starting 11.

I'd start with a back 4 of Kelly / Dunne / St Ledger / O'Shea

I'm not a big fan of Kelly either but he's the only fully "blooded" option right now.

The World Cup has given us the "heads up" on Slovakia. Forearmed is forewarned etc etc - provided we don't go overboard in the respect we show them.

[shakermaker1982]

McShane and Kilbane are accidents waiting to happen and both should be given the boot. It's time for Coleman and Cunningham to step up and cement places in the side.

We need at least 7 points on the board before we go to Slovakia. If we get a draw over there then we're on our way. Macedonia away is the one I fear most. It's a game we need to take 3 points from if we're serious about winning the group.

[Stuttgart88]

Right now I'd go for Wolfie's back 4. I don't think anyone can seriously say he'd drop KK because he's error prone and replace him with a kids who has only played a handful of senior games.

Given Trap's preference to try players in a friendly before starting them in a competitive game, when - if at all - will Ward have his next chance? I reckon Coleman has a chance of a start in the spring games if he impresses at club level.

I'm hoping Wilson gets a chance to impress Trap next week. I think he may well be a key player given that he can provide back up at RB, CB and CM. I understand he captained Pompey in a pre-season game. Pompey may be wound up soon though!

[Duggie]

macedonia might come back to haunt us again i feel.............

[rebelmusic]

I think the lads absolutely have to go for first place. It was obvious in the WC campaign that Trap was aiming for second place. Ireland has too many horror stories from play-offs. On paper we should be able to comfortably beat all the teams but Russia.

It's the same old problem though. We've always had strong defences traditionally, and in fairness under trap we defend well. But we need to be scoring more. I think i'll lose my mind if every match we're up by 1 goal and play last ditch defending. Almost cost me the health of my heart in the last campaign!!

[pineapple stu]

We should comfortably be able to beat Slovakia, who knocked Italy out of the World Cup, who in turn knocked us out of the World Cup?

Strange logic.

[shakermaker1982]

Right now I'd go for Wolfie's back 4. I don't think anyone can seriously say he'd drop KK because he's error prone and replace him with a kids who has only played a handful of senior games.

Given Trap's preference to try players in a friendly before starting them in a competitive game, when - if at all - will Ward have his next chance? I reckon Coleman has a chance of a start in the spring games if he impresses at club level.

I'm hoping Wilson gets a chance to impress Trap next week. I think he may well be a key player given that he can provide back up at RB, CB and CM. I understand he captained Pompey in a pre-season game. Pompey may be wound up soon though!

I'm just hoping Cunningham/Ward and Coleman muscle their way in by the end of this season. If Coleman gets off to a good start then he cannot be ignored. I'm not expecting them to start against Andorra but I'd hope to see Coleman starting against Slovakia (September 2011). He does look the business.

Wilson should get a run out next week. I'm not sure what's his best position though because Pompey play him everywhere!

[Predator]

I'm just hoping Cunningham/Ward and Coleman muscle their way in by the end of this season. If Coleman gets off to a good start then he cannot be ignored.I think that, despite Cunningham's inclusion in the senior squad, Coleman is a player who is more likely to play senior football for his club this year. From the reports of Everton's pre-season, Moyes has favoured Coleman in the right back position and he has flourished. If only he was equally adept at left-back. Cunningham is certainly a prospect, but it will probably be difficult to cement a place in that City squad



Wilson should get a run out next week. I'm not sure what's his best position though because Pompey play him everywhere!Wilson's preferred position is defensive midfield. He doesn't look as assured at centre half.

[Duggie]

i think slovakia will be pretty much the same as when we played them few years ago except they have a good striker in Vittek. wont be much between us, id settle for the 1-0 and 2-2 away draw in the last campaign.

[Irish_Praha]

It's interesting that our two last games are against teams that we should beat. So after the third last game we will be 90% sure of our points total. I don't know the rest of the fixtures but if Russia and Slovakia don't play eachother in the last two rounds this group could be virtually decided on the day we play Russia.

[DannyInvincible]

Results of friendlies featuring the other teams in our group this evening:

Russia 1-0 Bulgaria
Slovakia 1-1 Croatia
Malta 1-1 Rep. of Macedonia
Armenia 1-3 Iran
Cyprus 1-0 Andorra

[abcd]

Not a bad result for Andorra after going a goal behind early on. Hard to read too much into these results. Its down to the real business on Friday 3rd.

[Crosby87]

Cyprus...oh lord where is the pepto bismol.

[Closed Account 2]

Saw most of the Russia v Bulgaria game, it was bit drab to be honest and the goal was somewhat of a freak free kick which the keeper messed up. He did well to stop Dzagoev in the second half who had a good run and shot and Pavyluchenko could have scored following that, Zyrianov had some decent shots from distance. The heat seemed to slow the game down (no idea why they didnt play later in the evening when the sun wouldnt have been as direct), Bulgaria offered very little upfront so it's hard to say how the Russian defence was as it was never really tested.

Highlights are here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtmGXqcA7X0

Slovakia highlights here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-OZtpUIfnY

[Ciaran W]

We have to win our opening two games to set us up nicely for the rest of the qualifying.

[mypost]

I don't know the rest of the fixtures but if Russia and Slovakia don't play eachother in the last two rounds this group could be virtually decided on the day we play Russia.

They do play each other on the second last day, and the second day next month.

The dream is 9 points got by the time we go to Bratislava/Trnava/Zilina/Mongolia, but the probability is we're looking at a win against Andorra and maybe two other draws, before heading out there. Don't be surprised if the group goes down to the 6pm shootout on the final Tuesday with the three big guns fighting it out for the prize.

[DannyInvincible]

The dream is 9 points got by the time we go to Bratislava/Trnava/Zilina/Mongolia,

Supposedly this game is scheduled to take place in Zilina now, contrary to initial plans to have it in Bratislava: http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2010/0813/1224276763488.html

That's 125 miles away from Bratislava. The FAI have appealed to UEFA and the Slovakian football association to move it back to Bratislava, however, in order to accommodate those Irish fans who've already made their travel arrangements to there.

[mypost]

The game is still in Bratislava until such time as UEFA allow the Slovaks to change it. Personally I don't think they will. It's too late in the day now for that to happen, and they will strongly consider the FAI's position.

[TheBoss]

Here are the Slovakia, Armenia and Macedonia squads:

Slovakia
GK: Ján Mucha (Everton), Dušan Kuciak (FC Vaslui), Dušan Perniš (Dundee United)

DF: Peter Pekarík (VfL Wolfsburg), Martin Škrtel (Liverpool), Tomáš Hubočan (Zenit Petrohrad), Kornel Saláta (ŠK Slovan Bratislava), Radoslav Zabavník (1. FSV Mainz), Marek Čech (West Bromwich Albion)

MF: Miroslav Karhan (1. FSV Mainz), Mário Pečalka (MŠK Žilina), Juraj Kucka (AC Sparta Praha), Zdeno Štrba (Škoda Xanthi), Kamil Kopúnek (Unattached), Marek Hamšík (SSC Napoli), Marek Sapara (MKE Ankaragücü), Vladimír Weiss (Glasgow Rangers), Miroslav Stoch (Fenerbahce)

FW: Stanislav Šesták (MKE Ankaragücü), Erik Jendrišek (Schalke 04), Róbert Vittek (MKE Ankaragücü), Filip Hološko (Besiktas), Tomáš Oravec (MŠK Žilina)


Armenia

GK: Roman Berezovski (Khimki), Gevorg Kasparov (Mika), Stepan Ghazaryan (Banants)

DF: Robert Arzumanyan (Randers), Hrayr Mkoyan (Mika), Ararat Arakelyan (Banants), Artur Yuspashyan (Pyunik), Aghvan Mkrtchyan (Mika), Sargis Hovsepyan (Pyunik), Levon Hayrapetyan (Unattached), Artak Yedigaryan (Pyunik), Hovhannes Hambardzumyan (Banants)

MF: Karlen Mkrtchyan (Pyunik), Masis Voskanyan (Rouselare), Davit Manoyan (Pyunik), Artur Edigaryan (Pas FC), Artak Dashyan (Metallurg Donetsk), Edgar Malakyan (Pyunik), Levon Pachajyan (Sanat Naft), Artak Aleksanyan (Ural)

FW: Samuel Melkonyan (Banants), Gevorg Ghazaryan (Pyunik), Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Metallurg Donetsk), Markos Pizzelli (Pyunik), Edgar Manucharyan (Pyunik), Yura Movsisyan (Randers), Hovhannes Goharyan (Pyunik), Artak Grigoryan (Ulysess)


Macedonia

GK: Edin Nuredinoski (Ethnikos Achna), Darko Tofiloski (MFK Košice), Martin Bogatinov (FK Rabotnički)

DF: Aleksandar Todorovski (FK Rad), Igor Mitreski (Neftchi Baku), Boban Grnčarov (APOEL), Nikolče Noveski (1. FSV Mainz), Vanče Šikov (Ethnikos Achna), Goran Popov (Dynamo Kyiv), Aleksandar Lazevski (FK Partizan)

MF: Veliče Šumulikoski (Sibir Novosibirsk), Filip Despotovski (Volyn Lutsk), Slavčo Georgievski (Neftchi Baku), Mario Gjurovski (FK Vojvodina), Armend Alimi (NK Istra 1961), Agim Ibraimi (NK Maribor)

FW: Goran Pandev (Inter Milan), Ilčo Naumoski (SV Mattersburg), Aco Stojkov (FC Aarau), Ivan Tričkovski (APOEL), Stevica Ristić (FC Bunyodkor), Blaže Ilijoski (Gangwon)

[Crosby87]

Great Scott, not Aghvan Mkrtchyan! Players with few vowels are known to have big games in big spots says Tommy Smith.
I thought Velice Sumulikoski had retired from Int'l play do to acquiring Polio. And supposedly Boban Grncarov is considering skipping the game all together to go skiing in Nepal.

[pineapple stu]

I know a lad called Mkrtchyan. Nice man. Not that hard to pronounce once you get used to it.

[elroy]

Not as many of the Slovak squad play for Zilina as I expected. They just qualified for the CL proper. Slovak football is clearly on the up these days.

[Stuttgart88]

By all accounts young Weiss was excellent for Rangers last weekend.

[Junior]

Yep. He came on as a sub for last 25 minutes. Set up Rangers 2nd in a 3-0 win at Easter Road. Looked decent enough from what I saw of him.

[Kingdom]

Weiss is a fantastic little player. Didn't realise he had gone to Rangers, and I'm not sure whether he'll feature from the start against us. Skrtel has started well for Liverpool this season, he'll mark Doyle I'd imagine. That could be a key one.
How we handle karhan & Hamšík in midfield, and Vittek and Sestak up front will decide how we fare. I think we can do damage to them at the back.

[sean r]

who would you prefer to have? andorra san marino or the faroes? who would u say are the weakest?

[TheBoss]

San Marino are the weakest, Andorra are a bit better but the Faroes have much more quality than them two.

[geysir]

The last thing we would need is facing Brian Kerr and the Faroes.
Word is, the Faroes are all ready to harpoon the next best thing, the North, when they come to visit in October.

[sean r]

are they really that decent? i can recall the north drawing 1-1 with barbados so the faroes have a shot but there not good enough to beat the north are they?

[Stuttgart88]

They were leading Estonia (?) until injury time last month, but conceded 2 goals in injury time.

[Sullivinho]

who would you prefer to have? andorra san marino or the faroes? who would u say are the weakest?

Andorra and San Marino are much of a muchness. The Faroes are better than both.

The Andorrans 10-0-0 formation is a sight to behold. Imagine them coming to Dublin and taking the lead using such tactics! :D

Oh, wait...

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3042/noooooofk.jpg

[Charlie Darwin]

All credit to the Andorrans. Anyone who's capable of walking at a full 30 degree angle deserves all of our respect.

[pineapple stu]

All them mountains. It's normal to them.

[TheBoss]

Russia

GK: Igor Akinfeev (CSKA Moscow), Vladimir Gabulov (Dynamo Moscow), Vyacheslav Malafeev (Zenit)

DF: Alexander Anyukov (Zenit), Alexei Berezutsky (CSKA Moscow), Vasily Berezutsky (CSKA Moscow), Sergei Ignashevich (CSKA Moscow), Yuri Zhirkov (Chelsea), Denis Kolodin (Dynamo Moscow)

MF: Diniyar Bilyaletdinov (Everton), Vladimir Bystrov (Zenit), Konstantin Zyryanov (Zenit), Roman Shirokov (Zenit), Alan Dzagoev (CSKA Moscow), Igor Semshov (Dynamo Moscow), Dmitry Torbinskiy (Lokomotiv Moscow)

FW: Andrei Arshavin (Arsenal), Alan Kasaev (Rubin Kazan), Roman Pavlyuchenko (Tottenham Hotspur), Pavel Pogrebnyak (Stuttgart), Dmitry Sychev (Lokomotiv Moscow)

[Scooby Doo]

Russia

GK: Igor Akinfeev (CSKA Moscow), Vladimir Gabulov (Dynamo Moscow), Vyacheslav Malafeev (Zenit)

DF: Alexander Anyukov (Zenit), Alexei Berezutsky (CSKA Moscow), Vasily Berezutsky (CSKA Moscow), Sergei Ignashevich (CSKA Moscow), Yuri Zhirkov (Chelsea), Denis Kolodin (Dynamo Moscow)

MF: Diniyar Bilyaletdinov (Everton), Vladimir Bystrov (Zenit), Konstantin Zyryanov (Zenit), Roman Shirokov (Zenit), Alan Dzagoev (CSKA Moscow), Igor Semshov (Dynamo Moscow), Dmitry Torbinskiy (Lokomotiv Moscow)

FW: Andrei Arshavin (Arsenal), Alan Kasaev (Rubin Kazan), Roman Pavlyuchenko (Tottenham Hotspur), Pavel Pogrebnyak (Stuttgart), Dmitry Sychev (Lokomotiv Moscow)

Hmmm...not one Spartak player in the squad. A teensy bit worrying from a McGeady fan's point of view.

[Charlie Darwin]

I wouldn't read too much into it. The side's not exactly loaded with Russians:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Spartak_Moscow#Current_squad

[irishfan86]

Foreigners are ruining Russian football.

[Colbert Report]

Russia

GK: Igor Akinfeev (CSKA Moscow), Vladimir Gabulov (Dynamo Moscow), Vyacheslav Malafeev (Zenit)

DF: Alexander Anyukov (Zenit), Alexei Berezutsky (CSKA Moscow), Vasily Berezutsky (CSKA Moscow), Sergei Ignashevich (CSKA Moscow), Yuri Zhirkov (Chelsea), Denis Kolodin (Dynamo Moscow)

MF: Diniyar Bilyaletdinov (Everton), Vladimir Bystrov (Zenit), Konstantin Zyryanov (Zenit), Roman Shirokov (Zenit), Alan Dzagoev (CSKA Moscow), Igor Semshov (Dynamo Moscow), Dmitry Torbinskiy (Lokomotiv Moscow)

FW: Andrei Arshavin (Arsenal), Alan Kasaev (Rubin Kazan), Roman Pavlyuchenko (Tottenham Hotspur), Pavel Pogrebnyak (Stuttgart), Dmitry Sychev (Lokomotiv Moscow)

He's actually a right sided midfielder and he'll likely be going up against Kilbane. Very good player.

[elroy]

On paper at least, Russia have the best squad in our group.

[geysir]

And on the pitch as well.
It's time we got ahead of them for once.

[mark12345]

Anyone know if this match can be seen on Uefa.com? And if not where might one who is abroad see it on a computer?

[geysir]

http://www.myp2p.eu/index.php?part=sports
That's the place you go looking for links to the game. There will/should be plenty of streams available. They are usually listed about an hour before the game.
You just don't depend on one possibility but be ready to use different software to stream a different/better link.
If you are not au fait with the process, then there is plenty of time to work on your preparation.

[mark12345]

Cheers geysir. / Mark