View Full Version : Jason Byrne
Slash/ED
17/04/2004, 4:53 PM
I know I'm biased, but imo, Kerr can't ignore Jason Byrne for much longer. He is absolutley flying at the moment, another class finish the other night and he was brilliant all night. Given some of the strikers we're looking at, imo Byrne is no worse or better than any of the fringe players who are being given chances and have been capped in the past. His style of play is also absolutley ideal for partnering Robbie Keane, which is a massive plus as when it comes to our strikers it is simply a case of Robbie Keane + 1, also being his cousin they'll have a good understanding. I've heard Kerr is thinking about putting him into the squad for the Poland match and I think he definitely should, and give him a proper run, not the usual token eircom league gesture. I'd imagine this match will be one that there will be a fair few drop outs from, like the Greece match Crowe debuted in, so we probably wont even see the likes of Robbie Keane playing, all the more reason to give him his chance.
We're not exactly blessed with options up front, and he's definitely worth a try in the friendlys at least. I'm not asking for him to be thrown into the deep end in some world cup qualifyer, but a good chance to show what he can do in a friendly is fully deserved.
Get himself into decent league first then write your article. We get this time and time again on these forums, the Eircom league is hardly the place to vet or assess an International player. :rolleyes:
Slash/ED
17/04/2004, 10:16 PM
Crowe had to do the business for 3 years before he got called up. JOF has done the same if not better than Byrne in recent seasons so I would rate his ahead of Byrne also. I think Byrne is massively over-rated!
Byrne got the golden boot last season and is the clear leader this season, and favourite to do it again, and you think he's over rated and inferior to O'Flynn who's in the same league and already about four behind him is better? Right...
eoinh
17/04/2004, 10:34 PM
well, i hope he does get picked. O'Flynn deserves a chance as well i think. If more players besides crowe get selected it does refelect welll on the entire league.
Peterf
Get himself into decent league first then write your article. We get this time and time again on these forums, the Eircom league is hardly the place to vet or assess an International player
Daft - When a country like Latvia qualifies with many players from Metalurgs Liepaja there is no logical reason why some LOI players cant get picked.
Not all international class players play in Spain or Italy.
Slash/ED
17/04/2004, 10:42 PM
Great point Eoinh, also, as a striker Byrne plays in our weakest position, so the more options we have there the better. Christ we were seriously debating capping a third division striker this season!
Byrne finished with nearly double O'Flynns talley Xtreme Rebel, O'Flynn had 14 Byrne had 22 I think. It's all ifs and buts, there's no gaurentee O'Flynn would have outscored him. This season he's played in three and a half matches, you say, and got two goals, Byrne had four by the time he'd played the same amount of matches. I wont split hairs, as I think O'Flynn is quality aswell and as you say his U21 form has been superb, he's also worth a chance but he'll have to start scoring regularly again and go on an injury free run beforehe gets it. Byrne's also been 'doing the business' for years. 14 league goals for Bray in two straight seasons, one they got relegated in, is as impressive if not more so than 22 with a league winning side.
lopez
18/04/2004, 12:07 AM
Get himself into decent league first then write your article. We get this time and time again on these forums, the Eircom league is hardly the place to vet or assess an International player. :rolleyes:
Yeah like the SPL? :rolleyes:
4tothefloor
18/04/2004, 12:45 AM
Jason Byrne for Ireland - lol :D
Byrne, Crowe and O'Flynn should IMO all be tried out.
Flynn is the best of them but ou cant always expect him to be fit, his lack of fitness is the very reason why he's not banging them in for some Premiership club.
IMO there are at least 10 players in the eL who should be tried out in the summer yoke in London, if only to see that they are not good enough.
Flynn, O'Callaghan, Crowe, Hunt, Hawkins, J.Byrne, Cahill, Paisley, Fahy and T.Palmer.
Give them a chance, nothing to lose, everything to gain.
Denmark won Euro 92 with a squad of players who weret playing in a 'decent' league.
In fact Petef pick an Irish team using only players from outside the Premiership, see what kind of team you'll have.
At the recent Youth world cup in the UAE irelands best player was Stephen Paisley. Most journalists there agrree with that.
Who does he play for? - Longford Town.
Why can players from LOI clubs excell their conterparts from English clubs in the U-21s. Yet when its time to promote some
players to the senior side its the players who have been outshone that get promoted. Odd Huh?
Don Givens at the start was very anti LOI players yet when injury intervened and he had to use LOI players they turned out to be the star players. Givens has slowly started to change because he has seen the benefits.
Nobody here is arguing that the squad should be packed with LOI players but there are a few that are good enough to be in the squad at least. Inspect the squads of international teams from european countries and you'll see that its the norm that some of their most talented players dont move abroad for on reason or another.
Pat Byrne, Jackie Jameson, Coyle, Dave Barry, John O etcn
In fact Petef pick an Irish team using only players from outside the Premiership, see what kind of team you'll have.
If I did we would certainly not be drawing with Brazil and beating the Czech Republic.
Crowe couldn't even make it at Plymouth, the only games Hawkins could get in England were with Doncaster in the Conference, yeah slot him in centre back. :rolleyes:
If Byrnes good enough then he'll no doubt get his shot in the nationwide next season. Then have a look at him. Cant believe I'm even entertaining this argument in the first place, again its the case of the delusional Eircom League sanctimony that is abundant on these forums.
Robbie Keane didnt make it in Italy. Is he a failure?
Players dont make it at one club in the same league and go on to star at othe clubs in the same league.
Alan Maybury was picked for Ireland and he plays for Hearts. The last time a LOI club played a scottish premier club they beat them in european competition. (ANd, the LOI club played for one of the matchs with ten men for over half the match).
Again, you have to look at the whole european situation and see from which teams players are coming from.
lopez
18/04/2004, 10:29 AM
Crowe couldn't even make it at Plymouth, the only games Hawkins could get in England were with Doncaster in the Conference, yeah slot him in centre back. :rolleyes:This could have been down a number of reasons including homesickness. Failure to adapt to a foreign league does not mean that a player is necessarily cr*p.
adamcarr
18/04/2004, 11:56 AM
At the recent Youth world cup in the UAE irelands best player was Stephen Paisley. Most journalists there agrree with that.
Who does he play for? - Longford Town.
And at the Madeira U-21 tournament the top scorer was Kevin Doyle
Who does he play for? - Cork City :cool:
patsh
18/04/2004, 11:59 AM
Byrne finished with nearly double O'Flynns talley Xtreme Rebel, O'Flynn had 14 Byrne had 22 I think.
I hope some eL player gets a chance in the Irish squad soon.
I'd have a look at those old arithmetic books though, Slash/ED.... :D
btw, any particular reason you use Dunphy's domain name as your handle?
carnstien
18/04/2004, 12:42 PM
I know Clinton Morrison is not great, but in fairness he is playing regular 1st team football in the Premiership, so I think he must partner Robbie Keane.
If Jason Byrne does manage to get into the Irish squad, I think it could be just a case of him being the token Eircom league player rather than him actually being good enough to force his way into the team, which would hardly be fair on the rest of the squad.
If Jason Byrne does manage to get into the Irish squad, I think it could be just a case of him being the token Eircom league player rather than him actually being good enough to force his way into the team, which would hardly be fair on the rest of the squad.
I dont believe in tokens. It should be on merit or not at all.
Slash/ED
18/04/2004, 5:19 PM
I hope some eL player gets a chance in the Irish squad soon.
I'd have a look at those old arithmetic books though, Slash/ED.... :D
btw, any particular reason you use Dunphy's domain name as your handle?
I did say nearly ;)
No reason at all, I can't stand the man, but I thought it was an alright name :)
carnstien, I'm not saying he should be included ahead of Keane or Morrison, but that he deserves a chance to stake his claim for a place in the squad as much as, or more than, some of the fringe players we've resorted to capping over the years in these friendlys. We're not blessed with strikers at the moment so the more options we have the better, if Byrne gets the chance in a friendly that, imo, he deserves and he does well than it's another option for us, even if only as a squad member.
Éanna
19/04/2004, 12:34 PM
If I did we would certainly not be drawing with Brazil and beating the Czech Republic.
Crowe couldn't even make it at Plymouth, the only games Hawkins could get in England were with Doncaster in the Conference, yeah slot him in centre back. :rolleyes:
If Byrnes good enough then he'll no doubt get his shot in the nationwide next season. Then have a look at him. Cant believe I'm even entertaining this argument in the first place, again its the case of the delusional Eircom League sanctimony that is abundant on these forums.
Jon Dahl Tomasson was a complete flop at Newcastle, but he now plays for AC Milan. Rivaldo was a superstar at Barcelona, won the World Cup but was released by AC Milan. Here's a tip. Learn something about football (other than what Sky Sports tells you) then think about it, and then come back when you have enough knowledge to make a meaningful contribution to the debate :rolleyes:
As for Byrne getting the Ireland squad. I don't know if he is good enough yet. He might be worth a shot in a friendly alright. O'Flynn is far and away the best striker in the league, but won't get a chance until he's fully fit.
John83
19/04/2004, 12:52 PM
Very true. What's the harm in looking at say Crowe, O'Flynn and Byrne in the next three friendlies? Worst case scenario is we don't do as well in some friendlies as we might. Best case is David Connolly might be excluded from the next Ireland squad. Oh, and we might find one or more fo them is good enough.
Plastic Paddy
19/04/2004, 1:13 PM
Very true. What's the harm in looking at say Crowe, O'Flynn and Byrne in the next three friendlies? Worst case scenario is we don't do as well in some friendlies as we might. Best case is David Connolly might be excluded from the next Ireland squad. Oh, and we might find one or more fo them is good enough.
And even if we didn't find that they were good enough, it would put this seemingly endless debate about eL players in the national squad to bed, if only for a while. Bring them in.
:) PP
And even if we didn't find that they were good enough, it would put this seemingly endless debate about eL players in the national squad to bed, if only for a while. Bring them in.
:) PP
exactly. give a few eL players a run in a few friendlies and it should put the issue to rest- one way or the other
drummerboy
19/04/2004, 1:44 PM
As a neutral I go to many eircom league matches and usualy enjoy them. But I have to say I've not seen one player who could hack it at international level. Sad to say, but it is the truth. O'Flynn and Byrne could possibly go on to earn caps, but I think they would have to play at a higher level of football regularly, ie Nationwide Div 1 or perhaps on the continent to improve.
No token gestures! Players get to play for Ireland on merit or not at all.
Current forward options:
1. Keane
2. Morrision
3. Alan Lee
4. ????
Connolly is dire & its not good enough he plays 1 good game (v Turkey) every 4 years. I refuse to consider him now.
I think Crowe was worth he place when he got his chance but IMO he has gone backwards in the last year.
IMO Jason Bryne the form striker in the last year (O'Flynn has had too many injuries) & deserves a squad place at the moment.
Anyone suggest an alternative no. 4 striker?
I keep harping on about it but where LOI players and English based players are playing in the same team at underage level there is no difference in performance between the players. Why should LOI palyers be penalised when they reach 22.
Or to put it another way at the recent U-20 world cup Ireland did better than the following european countries
Countries
Albania
Andorre
Austria
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Belgium
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Rep.
Denmark
England
Estonia
Faroe Islands
Finland
France
Georgia
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Kazakhstan
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Macedonia
Malta
Moldova
Netherlands
Northern Ireland
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Russia
San Marino
Scotland
Serbia-Montenegro
Slovenia
Sweden
Switzerland
Turkey
Ukraine
Wales
Why can eircom league players hack it at U-21 level?
I keep harping on about it but where LOI players and English based players are playing in the same team at underage level there is no difference in performance between the players. Why should LOI palyers be penalised when they reach 22.
Sorry Eoinh, you've got it wrong. The eL players usually out preform their English based team mates.
Anyone remember seeing John O'Flynn and Barrett playing in the same U-21 team? If you knew nothing about either and saw them both play in the 3 games I saw them play together in you would have said that O'Flynn obviously played for a "higher level" team.
Paisley stood out a mile as a class act in the World Cup.
In Maderia the eL players stole the show, the same eL players who had only just started their pre-season while their English based team mates were mid-season.
I suppose upon reaching their 22nd Birthday players playing in Ireland automatically become useless. It's a sort of footballing Simpson gene.
Jon Dahl Tomasson was a complete flop at Newcastle, but he now plays for AC Milan. Rivaldo was a superstar at Barcelona, won the World Cup but was released by AC Milan. Here's a tip. Learn something about football (other than what Sky Sports tells you) then think about it, and then come back when you have enough knowledge to make a meaningful contribution to the debate :rolleyes:
As for Byrne getting the Ireland squad. I don't know if he is good enough yet. He might be worth a shot in a friendly alright. O'Flynn is far and away the best striker in the league, but won't get a chance until he's fully fit.
Aye Tomasson, very poor standard the Premier League, Rivaldo! I'm not going to even go there. Must get myself to an Eircom League game next time I'm back if players are being mentioned in the same breath as world cup winners.
I'm not against Byrne playing for Ireland, he just clearly needs to be tested in a higher league first, if he's good enough then I'm sure he'll get a move, needs to happen sooner rather than later as he's been kicking about for a bit now hasn't he.
If these guys are good enough as you say then why aren't bigger clubs moving in for them, they can hardly be on much money and wouldnt constitute a big risk.
Would be very nice for EL players to be involved in International team but the standard of the League is not high enough. EL performances in European competitions are a testament to this. I personally think the likes of O'Flynn are capable of playing at the highest level but you cannot compare the performances of underage EL players for Ireland and players involved in the full team. Paisley, O'Flynn and the like play competitive football week in week out albeit at a lower standard. Players like Flood, Whelan, Potter play reserve team football which is poor and not very competitive. Much like playing a weekly friendly. In these circumstances of course EL youngsters are going to be more competitive. Slag Connelly off all you want(and i do regularly) but he would tear EL defenses apart if he played them weekly.
If these guys are good enough as you say then why aren't bigger clubs moving in for them, they can hardly be on much money and wouldnt constitute a big risk.
Who said that clubs hadn't moved for them? There were plenty of clubs sniffing around the likes of O'Flynn and Crowe- but Crowe has proved that guys don't need to go to England to play for ireland. Irish players are better off staying here where they can play in Europe- there's your high standard- rather than playing hoofball in the dregs of the nationwide. You want an example- look at Eamon Zayed from Bray: he had one good season in the FIRST division here and now he's on loan at Crewe in the English first division. Your mentality (and I'm not having a go here) is the problem with football in this country. people assume that any team in England is better than staying here. Its not. By the looks of your post you haven't seen an eircom league game in a while, and believe me standards have imporved a lot in the last few years.
Would be very nice for EL players to be involved in International team but the standard of the League is not high enough. EL performances in European competitions are a testament to this.
Well, Latvia play with a lot of players from the Latvian league. They qualified for Euro 2004.
If you look at Bohs and their seeding in this years UEFA cup, you'll see that they are seeded this year.
And Bowsy you keep harping on about England but the vast majority of the players from european clubs at under 21 level play first team football.
Its a bit daft comparing us to England all the time. There are 51 members of UEFA. Considering all the money in English football they dont really do that well in Uefa club competitions.
Slag Connelly off all you want(and i do regularly) but he would tear EL defenses apart if he played them weekly.
That would be the same way he has scored hatfuls against Malta, Cyprus, Andorra etc...?
Connolly "performance" against Andorra particularily sticks in the mind... :eek:
EoinH, I compare us to England because that's were our entire National team play. Now, I don't know about you but i'd rather set my sights a little higher than competing with Super Powers like Latvia. Latvia are muck. Some times rubbish teams qualify for Tournaments. They get hammered and they go home early. Would any Irish supporter not expect us to beat Latvia 10 times out of 10. I'm not bashing the Irish League. I hope it continues to make great strides like it has over the last few years but the quality is still low. EL teams are still no better than the other minnows of European Football. Until the league is stronger i don't think it's an option. It's same reason i don't want Lee Trundle to play for us(apart from the fact he's a fat mercenary). He doesn' play a high enough standard of football.
Ozymandias
19/04/2004, 4:16 PM
I would love to see an EL palyer be in the squad on merit....
But if you base it on goals scored then Paul Heffernan at Notts County (Div 2) should get a shot as he has scored 20 golas this year so far...he would be a better bet than trundle....also Ben Burgess is back in form albeit in Div 3 ..hopefully these lads will progress as both of them are only 22/23
Its a pity the B internationals are gone as it would be a chance to blood these lads and EL players to see if they are up to it or not
Heffernan has bagged loads and is soon to be a division 3 player. Hes no way good enough either. Your right about Connolly he may be **** but would have an absolute field day in the Eircom League. As for Irish teams in Europe they inevitably go out against teams I've never heard of. How much money is the average pro in the Eircom on anyway?
As for Irish teams in Europe they inevitably go out against teams I've never heard of.
That may be. But no-one here is saying the Irish team should be full of eircom League players, we're saying that there are a few players who are worth calling up. You can't say that all players in the league are of the same standard- there are a number of players (mainly the ones being mentioned here) who are of a much higher standard than your average eircom League player. Every league needs its superstars! No-one is suggesting that every player in the English premier be considered for England!
Latvia are muck.
Suppose thats why they are going to Euro 2004 & we are not? plus they knocked out 3rd place team from last World Cup.
Wages make no difference to anything so pointless to debate.
So Burgess & Heffernan the current options for 4th choice striker?
Would have to disagree with you there I''m sure many others would as well.
As for Irish teams in Europe they inevitably go out against teams I've never heard of.
Maybe that says more about your interest in football on this continent than anything else.
At least the teams that Eircom league clubs fell to were a bit bigger than the great Grolclin Grodzisk (manchester city) or the stupendous Genclerbirligi (Blackburn)
Sheridan
19/04/2004, 5:28 PM
Maybe that says more about your interest in football on this continent than anything else.
Indeed. It always amuses me that the muppets who slag off the eL are invariably (long distance) fans of the Premiership, the most overhyped, insular and narcissistic league in the world. Anyone who falls hook, line and sinker for the Premiership hype (or SWEET DEAR BELOVED JESUS HELP US, the SPL) forfeits their right to make any kind of comment on the quality of football anywhere in the world, ever.
Maybe that says more about your interest in football on this continent than anything else.
Meant to make pretty much the same point. The majority of premiership fans never cease to amaze me with their ignorance. The number of times I've watched champions league games and commented on one or two of the opposition(i.e. the non-english team) players only to be looked at in amazement- "how do you know that?" :rolleyes:
Your right about Connolly he may be **** but would have an absolute field day in the Eircom League.
I'd doubt if he'd get a game with City, Shels or Bohs.
By the way, petef, how many eL games have you been at in the last 2/3 years?
Plastic Paddy
19/04/2004, 9:10 PM
I'd doubt if he'd get a game with City, Shels or Bohs.
But he can still walk into the West Ham United first team. Yes, that's the same West Ham who are currently in contention for the play-offs that, if they win, would see them promoted to the English Premiership.
I want some of what you're smoking. ;)
:D PP
carnstien
19/04/2004, 9:27 PM
Oh yeah, let's play players based in England because it's a top league and they'll get loads of goals at international level.
PeteF, Carnstein etc., did any of ye ever hear of a player called David Connolly?
I think Byrne and O'Flynn easily merit a runout. I take the point that the top levels of the English league may be more competitive, but the players that we have there aren't up to it so we must look elsewhere, inlcuding here.
We have guys on this site who say Miller should not get a run unitl he goes to MANCHESTER UNITED, and others saying we should be throwing in Eircom league players!??
I believe Miller should go in NOW, and if an Eircom league player is good enough he should get himself a trial with a Premiership club and go from there.
petef
19/04/2004, 11:51 PM
I'd doubt if he'd get a game with City, Shels or Bohs.
By the way, petef, how many eL games have you been at in the last 2/3 years?
Can hardly pop down the road to watch one can I. I dont even support a premier league team so dont go down that road.
Long and short of it all the standard of the Eircom League is not up to scratch to assess a player for the International stage. End of story!
Glen Crowe got his token cap when everyman and his dog pulled out of the Greece game. Connolly is a good First Division player and was never Internatiional standard in the first place, hes good in patches but lacks interest other times, Feynoord saw something that didnt come to fruition in his time there. The Eircom league is not comparable to the Nationwide First Division and is why that our players must at least be tested in a league of that standard or above.
Theres a significant number of people on this board who are somewhat delusional on the merits of the Eircom League. It may have improved but come on guys get realistic.
1MickCollins
20/04/2004, 1:37 AM
The idea of EL players doing it at internatinal level is a joke. I remember Crowe after a training session with the Ireland squad saying how fast paced and intense the sessions were. Nuf said.
The EL teams regularly lose to teams from Malta and Cyprus in UEFA cup, Now and agin they do get an upset, but only to be thrashed in the return leg. If the EL had that many good players they would be snapped up by Div 1 & 2 teams. :p
Exactly, out of interest whats the average earner on in the Eircom?
Connolly wouldn't get his game for Bohs? That's a joke. Muck for Ireland but he's one of the best forwards in the First Division and the first divsion is a higher standard than the EL. There are players in the EL with ability there's no doubt about that but they need to play a higher standard of football. You cannot expect someone who plays EL football to make the step up to International Level. It's too big a gap. The English first division is too big a gap for my money.
eoinh
20/04/2004, 10:11 AM
[QUOTE]I remember Crowe after a training session with the Ireland squad saying how fast paced and intense the sessions were. Nuf said.
Err whats he going to say? That its slow and not intense. One of the faults with LOI football is that its too fast, not too slow. Rangers and Celtic of Glasgow derbies may be be fast and intense but that doesnt mean theres much good football on show.
David Connolly (West Ham)
Born: 6/6/77 Caps: 40 Goals: 9
First cap: v Portugal 29/05/96 Last cap: v Switzerland 11/09/03
First goal: v USA 09/06/96 Last goal: v Turkey 09/09/03
While that looks like 1 goal in 4 games think more like 1 in 10 for last 30 as he scored most his goals in first year.
Still waiting for list of striker options beyond Keane, Morrison & Lee.
:rolleyes:
Ozymandias
20/04/2004, 10:48 AM
Connolly,
Doherty,
Heffernan
Burgess,
Crowe,
Byrne *2 (dunfermline and sh€ls)
o'Flynn,
Elliott,
Waters,
Clare
I would think (excluding Doherty and Connolly as they already have played competitively for Ireland)there isn't a whole lot between the above as a striking option but it will depend on how they progress...all of them are young lads...its a pity they don't arrange B internationals to blood them
Breen
20/04/2004, 10:50 AM
I don't know much about the Irish League (mainly cos there's no way I can get to watch any games) but I've got to say I think any standard of football (such as the eL) is better than no games at all.
And anyway, part of our problem in qualifying is not putting the goals past the weaker teams (Albania, Georgia etc.) or teams with poor defences. If you've got somebody at any level with a good scoring record I'd say give them a chance, at least. After all, what have we got to lose?
And before anybody says it again, we've got plenty of choices up front. They're just not any good.
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