Al Qaeda and what the problem really is.

[pete]

those indviduals did not. but Establishment America- its government, the CIA, its arms dealers and its multinationals did. It was just the poor ****ers who are stupid enough to keep voting for the same foreign policy (Clinton, Bush whoever- its all pretty much the same) over and over again who bore the brunt of it

I strongly belive the US voter did not know what they voting fpor when got Dubya. He campigned on so many things that he has done a u-turn on since 9/11. On the other hand if they re-elect him they can't say they didn't know what he like then.

[Metrostars]

Ah yes "pre-empted". that wonderful phrase the terrorist governments of the US and Israel like to use as a euphemism for "blowing them to pieces just in case they think of attacking us." Self-defence is a right of every country. Blowing people up because they don't like you is not.


You're making stuff up and you're not even good at it. Israel did preempt the 6 day war in 1967. Jordan, Syria and Egypt marched their forces to the Israeli border and were ready to attack. But Israel moved quicker.



Not as good as Ari Fleischer, CBs, CNN and all the other Josef Goebbels wannabe's who happily trot out the White House official line. What I do is look at the facts, ananlyse and then make my mind up. What they do is lie and kill. I think there's a difference. And most Americans don't know what the facts are- they know what their leaders want them to know


And it appears that you don't know what the facts are. You only believe what you want to believe.



However, they are a lot closer to the moral high ground than Israel is.

Well then, there you have it.

[Metrostars]

I strongly belive the US voter did not know what they voting fpor when got Dubya. He campigned on so many things that he has done a u-turn on since 9/11.

I'm not a Bush supporter but in his defense, everything changed in the US on 9/11.


On the other hand if they re-elect him they can't say they didn't know what he like then.

The problem is that Kerry is no great shakes and will not be an improvement over Bush. I'm really disappointed Dean didnt get the Dems nomination. He would have rightfully shaken things up.

[liamon]

I strongly belive the US voter did not know what they voting fpor when got Dubya. .... On the other hand if they re-elect him they can't say they didn't know what he like then.
Then again, given the efficiency of the White house propoganda, does anyone on the streets in the US really know what's going on? All they see is a president who's keen to fight back against the terrorists and this is portrayed as a good thing in the US media. Invading Iraq = good way to discourage terrorism? I think we in Europe get a slightly more balanced view of the situation.
Propoganda is very effective as many governments have shown throughout the last 100 years, so I don't expect the average person to see past the Pentagon line.

As someone who deals with Americans a lot, I have to say their knowledge of international affairs is shocking. As just one example, last week I was talking to an engineer who didn't even know what the European Union was. He could barely find France on a map and had no idea about Asia or the Middle East. And he's one of the highly educated ones!

[Metrostars]

Then again, given the efficiency of the White house propoganda, does anyone on the streets in the US really know what's going on? All they see is a president who's keen to fight back against the terrorists and this is portrayed as a good thing in the US media. Invading Iraq = good way to discourage terrorism? I think we in Europe get a slightly more balanced view of the situation.
Propoganda is very effective as many governments have shown throughout the last 100 years, so I don't expect the average person to see past the Pentagon line.

As someone who deals with Americans a lot, I have to say their knowledge of international affairs is shocking. As just one example, last week I was talking to an engineer who didn't even know what the European Union was. He could barely find France on a map and had no idea about Asia or the Middle East. And he's one of the highly educated ones!

I would have to agree with you regarding most Americans being clueless about international affairs. But the media is not portraying Iraq as just a must-do good thing. Right now the view on Iraq is about 50-50 here. There are some who are so freaked out by 9/11 and believe Bush can do no wrong and some who will always be against whatever Bush even if he would sucumb to whatever the UN says.
I would also have to say that while your statement about the European media may be correct, it doesnt nessessarily mean the Euro media is always 100% correct and not biased.

[brendy_éire]

You see, this is what I dislike. 'You had it coming' is a phrase that seeks to justify an event. There is no justification for simply wiping out 3,000 innocent men, women and children. You profess a dislike for targetting civilians...

...but unfortunately every now and again you let a phrase slip which suggests that you positively welcomed it.

The 3,000 people that were wiped out by a terrorist did not 'have it coming' in any way, shape or form. To suggest otherwise is simply perverse.

But they did have it coming! And aye, there's more on the way. That does not excuse it for happening, it just explains it.
I don't 'positively welcome' attacks against America. I just think they're inevitable and the yanks have no right to complain and whinge about it when it happens. You can't kick a sleeping dog, then cry when it bites you. A lot of Americans were surprised about 11/9/01 attacks. They couldn't understand why. Having left the US about 2 weeks before the attacks, I got talking to them about their foreign policy. They just didn't seem to realise what they were doing, and didn't believe me when I said it's all gonnae boil over some day. The ignorance of the US public and the cold-heartedness of their leaders (after all, they can then look like the tough guy and fight the "evil terrorists") are to blame for their problems. Hard lines, I say.

As for Americans and geography, don't get me started. It's just pure ignorance, nothing else. People ask where you're from, I say "Ireland". They go "where's that?" Me: "Western Europe" [blank stare from the yank] Me:"...never mind."
Strange thing about it, mention that you're Irish and they all love ye. :rolleyes:
(Worth a look: http://edition.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/11/20/geography.quiz/)

[liamon]

I don’t think Americans are intentionally ignorant. When you talk to them, they seem genuinely interested in foreign lands. It’s just a simple case of their media not supplying them with a lot of foreign news. If the mainstream media don’t give you sufficient info, it takes a lot of effort to go out and get a broad view of international affairs.

Unless you’re a lazy student with nothing better to do that surf the web all day. ;)