New green party

[culloty82]

Be afraid - it's the return of Patricia McKenna!:eek:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0628/1224273468181.html

http://fisnua.com/

The policies seem a mixture of Joe Higgins and "old guard" green ideas, and while they'll eat into the "Official Greens" vote, can't see them getting much further.

[Spudulika]

Just read about this in the Indo and was very surprised. Unless they get a few celebs on board and quick, they'll die a death.

[Eminence Grise]

Not sure if this will do long term damage to the Green Party (after all, being in government has first dibs on that!). There are too many egos involved for this to go smoothly - McKenna, de Burca, Chris O'Leary.... Also, I've heard an argument that the people behind it were the malcontents who were reluctant to stay in government and take unpopular decisions, and so were pushed out of the limelight by the Gormley wing of the party, which prefers the realos (pragmatists) to the fundies (tree-huggers). Whatever chance the Greens have of doing something in office, they've none in opposition: I think some of the named backers of An Fis Nua would have preferred to have remained sniping at the government from the long grass rather than getting their hands dirty in government.

Arguably, there is space for a new party in Irish politics, but veering towards the left rather than another environmental party.

[culloty82]

Rumours still rife that the FG rebels will join with FF backbenchers to form a new group, but don't see the point of a third centre-right party or who'd actually vote for ir.

[OneRedArmy]

Some great articles by Vincent Browne and others about how this weeks goings on have shown the ugly underbelly of Irish politics yet again.

FF'ers making a glorious stand and then predictably rolling over at the last minute (apart from good old Mattie, who apparently doesn't actually care much about the hunt, but figured he may as well lose the whip this week as next when he's going to vote against the puppy farming bill, which he does have an interest in).

The duplicity of the FF "enviro-rebels" is staggering. The stag hunting ban was clearly stated in the Programme for Government which they all voted for. Did they not read it? No point crowing about it now when you had ample chance to debate or disagree with it previously.

Even worse than the FF boys and girls who cried wolf are Labour, who showed their lack of a moral backbone yet again. Again, fair play to Ivana Bacik in the Seanad for standing up for hers, and her party's principles when the rest of the party forgot about theirs.

[Spudulika]

The stag hunt bill is a smoke screen to deflect from what really needs to be done - meanwhile another couple of billion sneak into Anglo Irish. Personally I've nothing against hunts, or huntspeople, but it's gone past the time of hunting animals - a drag hunt does the trick but they say it isn't real - hmm, I guess terrifying an animal half to death or tearing foxes to shreds is. I wanted to be in the audience on the Frontline a couple of months ago and ask the "hunt" people would they mind being hunted themselves, maybe tying a couple up (a la refs in Wicklow) dropping them in deepest darkest Mulhuddart of a Saturday night, and have them escape to whatever bolthole they came from.

A new Irish party (as mentioned above) can only be from a centre-left angle. Anything else is just redressing old failed parties up as new ones.

[Macy]

The stag hunting bill was nothing more than Gormley trying to give the impression that the Greens are getting something from FF (other than Ministerial Pensions). It was also crap legislation.

[OneRedArmy]

The stag hunting bill was nothing more than Gormley trying to give the impression that the Greens are getting something from FF (other than Ministerial Pensions). It was also crap legislation.Whether you like it or not, its been part of Green policy for years, and on that basis, getting it through was positive (albeit a small positive).

As a Green voter, I wanted the Greens to advance Green policies and agenda. History won't look kindly on their spell in office (although I think that was destiny given the role of a junior partner to FF), but the more Green policies they can get over the line between now and heading out the door the better.

[Macy]

I actually don't have a problem with banning blood sports, although I do have concerns about it being the thin end of the wedge with regard to field sports. However, some elements like including dogs that aren't actually used in hunting, and are actually used to make sure a humane kills, was a nonsense. If stopping one hunt, and making deer stalking (as used to control numbers of the bloody pests) less humane is a success, the green party and their voters have a pretty low bar...

[OneRedArmy]

I actually don't have a problem with banning blood sports, although I do have concerns about it being the thin end of the wedge with regard to field sports. However, some elements like including dogs that aren't actually used in hunting, and are actually used to make sure a humane kills, was a nonsense. If stopping one hunt, and making deer stalking (as used to control numbers of the bloody pests) less humane is a success, the green party and their voters have a pretty low bar...Realpolitik again.

I'm sure they'd love to ban fox hunting in its entirety but they know they'd didn't have a cat in hells chance (pardon the pun) and likely would've been run out of the country. The Ward Union involves chasing a petrified domestic animal and IMO deserves special treatment.

At any rate, I'm all for enacting legislation to ban any club that has the Bailey Brothers and Johnny Ronan amongst its members, but I digress.... :)

[ped_ped]

Some great articles by Vincent Browne

That's where I stopped reading :p

[OneRedArmy]

That's where I stopped reading :pI wouldn't normally be his biggest fan, but he got right to the issue, as did Fintan O'Toole who penned a fantastic piece in yesterday's Times about why the FF "rebels" chose to make a stand on the hunting issue when they'd let every other facet of rural life be decimated (post offices, water quality, rural transport, REPS etc.) without so much as a peep.

[Eminence Grise]

From the Letters Page of today's Irish Times...


Madam, – In relation to your article on the registering of new political parties (Home News, July 14th), I feel the impression may have been given that I am a prominent and active figure in the new party, Fís Nua. I would like to clarify that I do not at this point have plans to play a “prominent” role in any future political party. While I have attended Fís Nua meetings and lent my support to its efforts to provide voters with some sort of real alternative, I have similarly attended meetings of Direct Democracy Ireland and feel it also has something positive to contribute to the vacuous political arena that currently exists.
However, I have spent over half my life helping to build up one political party and considering how short life is the thought of starting from scratch again is somewhat daunting. This does not mean I have given up, only that I am considering alternative and perhaps more effective ways to change things. – Yours, etc,

PATRICIA McKENNA


Interesting to see that she is distancing herself from the most obviously Green of the mooted new parties. Is she playing hard to get, and hoping that a decent position will be offered to her in return for her support? Or has she some insight into the scramble for positions that are likely in Fis Nua, and reckons that Direct Democracy - which, afaik, has fewer high profile supporters (Vincent Salafia excepted) - might offer her a better deal?

I don't buy into her claim that she is daunted by the prospect of building a new party. She couldn't have survived as an MEP for a decade if she was a shrinking violet...

[Charlie Darwin]

Might be a bit of a stretch to call Vincent Salafia high-profile. Faintly-recognisable might be a more accurate representation.

[Eminence Grise]

OK... hands up... Salafia is only high profile to political junkies. You got me dead to rights there, Charlie Darwin!

A meeting last night in Kilkenny attracted 50 people interested in setting up The Irish Independents' Party. (Surely that name is an oxymoron?) It was organised by a man who has been in both FG and the Greens, so serial political bed-hopping might lead to third time lucky....

The whole story is in today's Irish Times http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0722/1224275196464.html

Meantime, Michael McDowell and Pat Cox won't be drawn on whether they are in cahoots about another new party. I heard this rumour about two or three months ago, but either they are playing their cards very close to their chests, or there really is nothing to it. Anyway, Miriam Lord makes much of very little to go on...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0722/1224275195772.html

Mods, I know these don't refer to a new Green party, so feel free to separate into a new thread if that works best.

[Macy]

McDowell also rumoured to be rejoining FG. I can't see a McDowell/ Cox PD style party making much headway. McDowell is only just out of Government with the PD's, the remenants of whom are still in Government. Too easy to hang (rightly) part of the blame for the state of the state on them too to make real inroads. They're potential time was probably during the anti public sector maelstrom, but again they would've been hit with McDowell being at the cabinet table when benchmarking was paid.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm surprised McDowell has time to consider a return to politics what with all the internet companies he's got to sue.

[culloty82]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0730/1224275811360.html

Not exactly the most subtle hint of McDowell's plans.

[Oz Student]

The Green Party just won its first seat in the Australian parliamant. It's made more important because the election overall is likely to be a tie, Labour and the Liberals are both likely to end up 2 or 3 seats short of a majority. They'll need the support of the Greens and a couple of independents to form a government.

The Green Party in Oz is likely to have to make the same choice as the Irish Greens 3 years ago; whether to drop most of their policies in favour of getting a minority of them implemented. I think it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Stevo Da Gull]

Interesting but I'd expect them to go the way of the Irish Greens. Compromise is almost certainly in the top 5 of 'words to associate with politics'.. understandably so.

[Macy]

Interesting but I'd expect them to go the way of the Irish Greens. Compromise is almost certainly in the top 5 of 'words to associate with politics'.. understandably so.
I wouldn't know enough about Australian politics these days to know to be honest. The Greens here would've had to compromise with a rainbow coalition, but I doubt they would've been hammered as much in polls. For a start I don't think they'd have been ridden as much by FG/Labour - but mainly because FG/Labour don't have the same killer instinct, but who knows given how they've done anything to cling to power the last few years. Also they didn't go into the last election making speeches about "Planet Enda" and whatever about people saying they're all the same, it's clear that FF have dodgier morals than most.