England's chances?

[tricky_colour]

What does everyone think of England's chances?

(someone had to mention them) :D

Until they got he goal it was looking like more of the same, even after that they did not look too good,
Rooney hit the post I suppose but Slovenia had their chances too.

Maybe it is a slow start and then improvement th at you need, after all playing well at the end which wins you things in tournaments, not playing badly (provided you don't get knocked out!!).
(certainly applies in poker tournaments, if you don't get luck or play well at the end you can't win!!)

Germany have not looked too impressive either, but they usually progress nearer to the final.
Looks a bit like a coin flip in that one, maybe penalties.

Neither team look like beating Argentina, but, you never know.

[osarusan]

In my opinion, the first team with players who run at their central defenders with supporting attackers making runs in behind the defence will knock them out.

[boovidge]

I wouldnt rate their chances too highly but there are only four games to win. A bit of luck or a couple of incredible displays and you never know. I think they'll do well to get to the semis though.

[back of the net]

Germany in the next round, and if they get over that then argentina or mexico in Q/F's if im correct --- in a nutshell i think Ireland have more of a chance of winning this world cup than england do.

I have a feeling Mexico mite beat Argentina on sunday and i dont fancy england to beat them if they overcome germany

As Dennis Irwin said on TV this eve, its very hard for a team to switch on and off. There is a lot of problems underlying in the england camp and that along with the fact they are just not good enough to win the W.C will ultimately be their downfall

(Please God - dont make me eat large amounts of humble pie in 3 weeks time ) :D

[Sullivinho]

I have a feeling the Germans won't need penalties to do them. There's a hint of dodginess about both defenses but they probably cancel each other out in that respect. Speaking of respect, I've been very impressed by swine tiger & co. and how they go about the job. Rock solid discipline, proper team performances and easy on the eye. England...not so much.

In any case, I can't see them surviving both the Germans and the Argies. And regarding the latter, I wouldn't want them to either.

[tetsujin1979]

The defence has yet to be properly tested. For me, Johnson and the two centre halves are the weak points of the team. Johnson is excellent at moving the ball forward, but doesn't have the pace to get back and leaves holes in the right back position for a speedy opposition winger, or even a decent creative central midfielder, to exploit. Add to that the lack of pace in the centre of defence and you have a recipe for disaster. Ashley Cole doesn't have that weakness in his game, and seems to be enjoying the freedom of space given to him by playing Gerrard as an inside-left.
The addition of Barry had added an extra defensive option, and despite his critics, I thought he did exactly what was expected of him against Slovenia, receive the ball and spray it out to Milner, Gerrard or Rooney. I forgot Lampard was on the pitch until he took a corner.
Up front, Rooney is clearly carrying an injury and not at his best. Defoe was brought in as a partner after Heskey failed, but I didn't see much interplay between them, and it could be a case of the team setting goals up for both of them, rather than the two working together, if you follow.

Against Germany, a lot will depend on how they deal with Ozil, who is the team's playmaker and their best player of the tournament so far. Is it worth sacrificing Barry to man mark him to remove his influence on the game?

I honestly can't call the second round game against Germany, but if they do win, I agree with Sullivinho and don't see them getting past the quarters.

[ifk101]

Have to disagree about Barry, I thought he had a lot of heavy first touches and misplaced passes. He probably improved as the game went on but in the first twenty minutes or so I recall a number of misplaced passes.

Milner's crossing was for me the highlight of the game yesterday. If he is given the time to put in his crosses, I think England have a good chance of beating the Germans.

[shakermaker1982]

I don't rate em at all as a team. You would think they've just beaten Brazil 1 nil in the final the way everybody is reacting over here. I'm amazed it hasn't dawned on them that they just edged out a p*ss poor Slovenian side. It was a 5 out of 10 performance. Nothing more, they got the job done but they ain't winning a WC.

Like tets points out Johnson's out of position EVERY time England lose the ball. If Ozil receives the ball on the counter (after moving into that HUGE gap) and runs at Upson/Terry he'll cause carnage.

Their midfield cannot keep hold of the ball and good teams will punish you (they don't have the defence of an Inter to hold out if they've only got 40% of the ball). After kicking off the second half they gave the ball away within 8 seconds. Lampard & Barry don't have the ability to match a top class midfield pairing. Milner put in a couple of good balls but is S L O W and lacks the ability to get around a top class left back. Even though it isn't Boateng's natural position he should still have enough ability to counter that threat.

Rooney looks like a ghost. 7 games at a WC and he's had more red cards than goals.

[tetsujin1979]

Have to disagree about Barry, I thought he had a lot of heavy first touches and misplaced passes. He probably improved as the game went on but in the first twenty minutes or so I recall a number of misplaced passes.fair enough, I missed the first half hour of the game.


Milner's crossing was for me the highlight of the game yesterday. If he is given the time to put in his crosses, I think England have a good chance of beating the Germans.
Yeah, he was a different player on the right than the one who played on the left VS the USA. Lennon offers pace on the right, but little in the way of end product. Milner got the assist on Defoe's goal.

[Dodge]

Milner's crossing was for me the highlight of the game yesterday.

Statistics show he completed only one cross in the entire game (for the goal)

[endabob1]

The big difference on the right was that Johnson didn't get in Milners way, in the first 2 games Johnsons runs pushed Lennon inside where he is completely ineffectual. Not sure if it was a definite tactical change but Milner seemed to be able to stay wide a lot more and Johnson stayed back

[ifk101]

Statistics show he completed only one cross in the entire game (for the goal)

But that doesn't say how "good" the crosses were. A lot of them were screwed around the full back and put in the space behind the defence and in front of the goalie. That area is difficult for the defence to deal with and it should be the area you'd expect your strikers to be attacking.

[Dodge]

A good winger will realise the limitations of a striker and play to their strengths, not his

Milner's a good but I didn't think he played well yesterday. Different stokes and all that...

[ifk101]

A good winger will realise the limitations of a striker and play to their strengths, not his

Milner's a good but I didn't think he played well yesterday. Different stokes and all that...

A good winger follows his manager's instructions ;). Rooney's ice cold at the moment. Doesn't matter what way the ball's put in - he won't score. Defoe's a midget. The only way he's going to get on to a cross is if it's played low and fast behind the defence - re: how he scored yesterday. I'm not saying Milner had a good game just that his crossing was of high class.

[Stuttgart88]

The stats don't record the cross, identical to the one which they scored from, which the keeper did really well to take off Defoes feet before it fell to Lampard, as complete. But it was a hell of a cross.

I'm not sure he'll get the space against Germany though, and they'll need their full backs to actually get past the German full backs, as neither Gerrard nor Milner has a winger's instinct. Milner played very like Beckham yesterday, as opposed to someone like Lennon.

I think England's big-game experience will count for something. I'm trusting that Schweinsteiger will be fit - he'd be a huge loss otherwise. Was Badstuber (?), the left back, dropped, suspended or injured against Ghana?

I think I've said it before here, not sure: England remind me of the famous scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark, where the flash arabian swordsman did all his tricks before Harrison Ford just took out his pistol and shot him! England can play a direct game of football, putting in crosses like Milners or relying on set pieces to get goals and this is often good enough to beat more technically accomplished opposition. Mexico mullered them at Wembley, but lost 3-1 (two corners, one needlessly conceded and including a dodgy Crouch goal). England will probably need 4 bullets though - Germany, Argentina, Spain and Brazil. Do they have them?

I know friendlies don't count for a huge amount, but England (I think) has only played 3 "peers" during Capello's reign. France & Spain beat them and they drew 2-2 in Holland.

[OwlsFan]

I don't rate em at all as a team. You would think they've just beaten Brazil 1 nil in the final the way everybody is reacting over here. I'm amazed it hasn't dawned on them that they just edged out a p*ss poor Slovenian side.

Sometimes it is easy to denegrate the opposition when they are well beaten. Slovenia are not "p*ss poor" nor is any European side which had qualifed for the World Cup. They might not be world beaters but they finished well ahead of the Czech Republic and Poland in their group and only conceded 4 goals in 10 games. Their strength is obviously their defence and when they conceded I'd say that was the game plan out the window. England beat them comfortably enough but it is seldom at the WC that one European team plays another off the park.

The German team is not anything special and man for man the English team is probably as good if not better. I expect England to win, probably on penos to reverse a trend, and then face Maradona with all the talk of hand of God.They'd have a chance there as well so I wouldn't write them off just yet.

[Stuttgart88]

Bloemfontein is at 1350m altitude. Will this affect anything?

[endabob1]

Bloemfontein is at 1350m altitude. Will this affect anything?

Only when they lose :D

[shakermaker1982]

Sometimes it is easy to denegrate the opposition when they are well beaten. Slovenia are not "p*ss poor" nor is any European side which had qualifed for the World Cup. They might not be world beaters but they finished well ahead of the Czech Republic and Poland in their group and only conceded 4 goals in 10 games. Their strength is obviously their defence and when they conceded I'd say that was the game plan out the window. England beat them comfortably enough but it is seldom at the WC that one European team plays another off the park.

The German team is not anything special and man for man the English team is probably as good if not better. I expect England to win, probably on penos to reverse a trend, and then face Maradona with all the talk of hand of God.They'd have a chance there as well so I wouldn't write them off just yet.

did you watch them against Algeria? Both of them were woeful. Two worst sides I've seen at the world cup. Fair play to em for qualifying but the English media will not brainwash me into thinking they were a dangerous side.

It's seldom that another European team plays a fellow European side off the park? Spain 4 Ukraine 0 springs to mind from the last world cup (I remember a dodgy red card in 2nd half but Spain on top before that). Portugal 4 Poland 0 (2002) and Sven's England pasting Denmark by 3 goals in the second round. 98? Spain 6 Bulgaria 1. I bet there is one at every WC!

[bennocelt]

Sometimes it is easy to denegrate the opposition when they are well beaten. Slovenia are not "p*ss poor" nor is any European side which had qualifed for the World Cup. They might not be world beaters but they finished well ahead of the Czech Republic and Poland in their group and only conceded 4 goals in 10 games. Their strength is obviously their defence and when they conceded I'd say that was the game plan out the window. England beat them comfortably enough but it is seldom at the WC that one European team plays another off the park.
.


Must be looking at different games. Slovenia were poor in all 3 of their games. The Algerian game was really poor. France, Italy, Denmark, Greece, Spain, England, germany (hot and cold), Switzerland, etc etc etc = havent seen too much quality so far....................

[stojkovic]

England always raise their game against the big guns although they usually lose out on penos.
Hopefully Schweinsteiger and Ozil will be fully fit. Sud Afrikans will now switch their allegences to Ingurland.

[Dodge]

England always raise their game against the big guns

They have only once ever beaten a country who had previously won the world cup (2002 v argentina)

[stojkovic]

They have only once ever beaten a country who had previously won the world cup (2002 v argentina)
Yes but they have only been beaten TWICE since 1970 over 90 mins in the knock-out stage - Argentina in 86 and Brasil in 02.
They went out on penos in 90, 98 and 06 and didnt lose a game in 82.

[Stuttgart88]

It sounds like Schweinsteiger and Boateng are struggling, Oezil less so. Schweinsteiger hasn't traveled with the rest of the team.

[Sullivinho]

Schweinsteiger hasn't traveled with the rest of the team.

Shame that. He's a massive player for them, superb midfielder and looks even better outside of Ballack's shadow.

[Noelys Guitar]

The knock-out stage is a whole new ball game and I have a feeling this is going to suit England. All it will take is for Rooney to find his form (and he improved in the Slovenia game from his previous two outings)and it is goodbye Germany. The Germans have looked a good team but if Rooney plays at the top of his game then England will beat the Germans. The Germans are sure to attack Glen Johnson relentlessly but I'm not convinced the German central defense can keep out a resurgent Rooney (if he turns up). Could be a repeat scoreline of 1970 in reverse. England 3, Germany 2.

[OwlsFan]

It's seldom that another European team plays a fellow European side off the park? Spain 4 Ukraine 0 springs to mind from the last world cup (I remember a dodgy red card in 2nd half but Spain on top before that). Portugal 4 Poland 0 (2002) and Sven's England pasting Denmark by 3 goals in the second round. 98? Spain 6 Bulgaria 1. I bet there is one at every WC!

That's seldom. 4 in 12 years

I saw them against Algeria and they were very poor. I also saw them against us in 1990 and they were very poor then but they kept improving. However, they are clearly not as bad as that and against Germany they will raise their game and get a draw at least and then win on penos. I have read it in the stars (after a bottle of Sauvignon Plonk).

[Dodge]

Yes but they have only been beaten TWICE since 1970 over 90 mins in the knock-out stage - Argentina in 86 and Brasil in 02.
They went out on penos in 90, 98 and 06 and didnt lose a game in 82.

Stats can prove anything. They've lost as many knockout games over 90 minutes as they've won...

70 - lost only knock out game in 90 minutes
74 - Didn't qualify
78 - didn't qualify
82 - drew both games in the 2nd group stage
86 - one knock out win (beaten in quarters)
90 - no knockout wins in 90 minutes (beaten on pens in semi)
94 - didn't qualify
98 - no knockout wins in 90 minutes (beaten on pans in last 16)
02 - one knock out win in 90 minutes (beaten in quarters)
06 - one knock out win in 90 (beaten in qurters on pens)

SO they've woon 3 knock out games in 40 years in 90 minutes, against Paraguay, Denmark and Ecuador.

[shakermaker1982]

Schweinsteiger is a massive loss. ****.

[Stuttgart88]

It's not definite yet. He stayed behind for further treatment, my totally amateur guess being that the altitude may slow his recovery. 20 year old Toni Kloos would be his replacement. I'm hoping Low is playing mindgames but I doubt it. Experience will count for a lot in this game and England has it in abundance. I can't see anything other than an England win, but maybe being in England has that effect. I watched the Germany v Ghana game on RTE and thought the RTE panel overplayed Germany's performance.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Thanks Dodge. You've officially Tempted Fate with those stats.
But seriously Gareth Barry would be an even worse WC winner than Frank Le Boeuf FFS.

Their main strengths, when they play are Gerrard (& Rooney) and even more regrettably their Ch*lski connection.....
Maybe they'll beat Germany, even on pens, but as already has been said they're not a great team. And be amazed, If Schweinsteiger doesn't play.
Or at least start.

[Dodge]

Thanks Dodge. You've officially Tempted Fate with those stats.
.

I'm not too worried. England may beat germany, but they won't win the world cup.

[Stuttgart88]

Cacau out

[quadrivium]

This will be a really close one, I think.
England haven't been great thus far, but then again, neither have Germany. (The Australia match was a fluke - the Aussies had a bad day and were much improved in the matches that followed.)
I don't see Germany making much of an impact up front (even (especially?) if Klose plays), and if they play Badstuber again they will leak goals at the back. They also don't seem to have a lot of strength in depth. Lahm and Ozil are key players - assuming they stay on form, Germany might just edge it though. We'll see.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Dodge, I'd agree!

Just their idiot majority will behave as if they have, if they beat the Germans. Think they're due a 'good' game, so will tip them to win 2-1, without extra time. And may even miss a penalty.
Or if it is pennos, then them to win, only by 'the law of averages'.

Still here's to Germany, Argentina/Mexico and the next four, Portugal. Spain, Holland, Paraguay etc.

[stojkovic]

SO they've woon 3 knock out games in 40 years in 90 minutes, against Paraguay, Denmark and Ecuador.

All in the last 16.

They will win tomorrow, hope not but I think they will.

[Stuttgart88]

Watching Ghana v USA tonight, after about 40 minutes I was thinking that Germany must be better than I thought as Ghana were really impressing me. Then I think Ghana's inexperience kicked in and they sat back, allowing USA a foothold back in the game. Ghana play the game well though, with some really accomplished play at times so Germany must take credit for beating them.

[OwlsFan]

......but it is seldom at the WC that one European team plays another off the park.

:O Germany 4-1 England.

[tricky_colour]

I think to be fair if england's goal had stood it would have been a different ball game,
Germany would have just conceded 2 goals, that would have scared the life out of them
they would have settled for penalties I think. Certainty England would not have had to chase the game.

[Schumi]

Any sign of England looking to be the 9th team in the quarter finals?

[Sullivinho]

It's never nice when you have a perfectly good consolation goal chalked off ;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

I think to be fair if england's goal had stood it would have been a different ball game,
Germany would have just conceded 2 goals, that would have scared the life out of them
they would have settled for penalties I think. Certainty England would not have had to chase the game.

It would have been a different spin, but Lumplard's efforts aside, what else did Ingleland actually do in the game? Germany could have had 6 or 7. The other lot were otherwise their normal soporific selves.

[tricky_colour]

It would have been a different spin, but Lumplard's efforts aside, what else did Ingleland actually do in the game? Germany could have had 6 or 7. The other lot were otherwise their normal soporific selves.


Well England did score two good goals, the same as Germany, but England would have had
the advantage having come back from 2-0. It definitely would have changed things.
As it was England had to press for another and Germany knew that.

Germany would have been rattled and demoralised, as it was England were rattled and
demoralised. It was a key game changing moment, no doubt about it.

[elroy]

Off topic so I apologise but watching BBC highlights tonight....they have this "Mottys moments" piece and the piece of commentary over the intro is Motty saying in a very high tone "look at these scenes, look at these scenes"

Who can guess what game or moment that commentary was on????

[stojkovic]

Off topic so I apologise but watching BBC highlights tonight....they have this "Mottys moments" piece and the piece of commentary over the intro is Motty saying in a very high tone "look at these scenes, look at these scenes"

Who can guess what game or moment that commentary was on????

Keane v Germany in 2002.

[tetsujin1979]

Off topic so I apologise but watching BBC highlights tonight....they have this "Mottys moments" piece and the piece of commentary over the intro is Motty saying in a very high tone "look at these scenes, look at these scenes"

Who can guess what game or moment that commentary was on????
Germany 1 - 5 England

[osarusan]

Keane v Germany in 2002.

This is correct.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFQOoSUbnBs

I watched this in my flat in Japan, and as I was rather animated in the wake of the goal (jumped down on my knees to celebrate, landed on the edge of a plastic video cassette holder and actually cut myself quite badly), for a long time I thought he'd said 'look at what it means' rather than look at these scenes'.

[bennocelt]

Well England did score two good goals, the same as Germany, but England would have had
the advantage having come back from 2-0. It definitely would have changed things.
As it was England had to press for another and Germany knew that.

Germany would have been rattled and demoralised, as it was England were rattled and
demoralised. It was a key game changing moment, no doubt about it.

England had 4 games to play football, didnt do it. Over rated bottlers

[pineapple stu]

Well England did score two good goals, the same as Germany, but England would have had
the advantage having come back from 2-0. It definitely would have changed things.
As it was England had to press for another and Germany knew that.

Germany would have been rattled and demoralised, as it was England were rattled and
demoralised. It was a key game changing moment, no doubt about it.
The flip side is taht England would have sat back, happy that they'd gotten themselves back into the game, allowed the Germans regroup at half time (just five minutes away) and then been blown away in the second half as happened. How many times have you seen teams battle back only to ease off before the job is fully done? It's pure speculation. England were rubbish throughout and can't have any complaints (and to be fair, there's practically no complaints bar about the team itself)

[elroy]

Keane v Germany in 2002.

Yip got it in one.