"How to fix the league" threads

[peadar1987]

There's a lot of abuse thrown at anyone who starts one, but to be fair, our league is pretty much unique.

Not only is there a pretty obvious need to fix the league, somehow, which doesn't exist in most other leagues, but the small fanbase really changes the dynamic of supporters in the league.

I'm a Stoke City fan, and on any of the English football boards I use, fans of different clubs fragment into their own groups. Stoke fans talk with other Stoke fans about players, tactics, and potential signings, the same with Hull, Burnley and Stockport fans. There's never a well-frequented central area where fans of different clubs come to discuss matters of common interest to the league.

This league couldn't sustain a message board like that. Bray don't have enough fans to have a board of our own where we just talk in-house stuff, and it's not like we have enough money to even dream of making signings for us to talk about. A lot of clubs are in the same boat. The size and issues of the domestic football community here mean that there's always going to be the demand for cross-club discussion between the fans, and a big part of that is how to improve the league as a whole.

[osarusan]

But they're unrelated issues.

First of all, if Limerick can set up a forum (http://http://limerickfcforum.com/index.php) for their fans, I'm sure Bray can do likewise. I'd say most if not all other premier division teams have one. Secondly, even if they don't, there is a forum for each club on this site where club-specific issues can be discussed.

People getting shot down for starting 'improving the league' threads has nothing to do with small fanbases and lack of other forums, they're getting shot down because the kind of 'solutions' proposed show they pretty much uniformly fail to understand what needs to be done, what can feasibly be done, and by whom, in order to improve the league.

[Sam_Heggy]

No problem with the "let's fix the league threads" but every day a new one? That's just annoying, especially when it's the same talk every time.

As for individual forums, there is individual sections on here and ourselves, Athlone and Drogheda can be found over on www.irishfootienetwork.com

Our league is not unique either, it is a mess but not unique. Over-spending is a huge problem here but it's also very evident in England, the IL is a jokeshop too.

[pineapple stu]

They're also getting shot down because it tends to be the same person again and again who was previously banned for the same reason.

Other than that, I'm not sure entirely what point you're trying to make?

[marinobohs]

There's a lot of abuse thrown at anyone who starts one, but to be fair, our league is pretty much unique.

Not only is there a pretty obvious need to fix the league, somehow, which doesn't exist in most other leagues, but the small fanbase really changes the dynamic of supporters in the league.

I'm a Stoke City fan, and on any of the English football boards I use, fans of different clubs fragment into their own groups. Stoke fans talk with other Stoke fans about players, tactics, and potential signings, the same with Hull, Burnley and Stockport fans. There's never a well-frequented central area where fans of different clubs come to discuss matters of common interest to the league.

This league couldn't sustain a message board like that. Bray don't have enough fans to have a board of our own where we just talk in-house stuff, and it's not like we have enough money to even dream of making signings for us to talk about. A lot of clubs are in the same boat. The size and issues of the domestic football community here mean that there's always going to be the demand for cross-club discussion between the fans, and a big part of that is how to improve the league as a whole.

Firstly, most clubs have their own dedicated forums and indeed FOOT.IE has individual forums for each club. I post on the Bohs forum about Bohs specific items but would tend to see this forum as broader in terms of participants etc.

Also great to converse with fans from other clubs on a somewhat neutral territory.
RE "improving the league" threads - there have been literally hundreds of these threads on FOOT.IE and they tend to become very repetitive for regular readers and I suspect this accounts for at least some of the "shooting down" you refer to. There are a lot of posters here very involved with their respective clubs and they also may ridicule some of the ideas put forward as they are aware of how illogical and impractical they are.

[Dodge]

This league couldn't sustain a message board like that.


The league doesn't. A bunch of people do.

Its a discussion forum, no more, no, less.

I've no problem with ayone discussing anything they like, but they must be prepared to accept criticism of their posts.

As for bray not having enough fans to discuss possible signings, amy I direct you to 11 page thread started by you about signings (http://foot.ie/threads/129304-So-who-s-out-and-who-s-in) in the Bray forum

[Riddickcule]

Lets have one thread about "How to fix the league" then. Then, so many wouldn't have to be started.

[Dodge]

Lets have one thread about "How to fix the league" then. Then, so many wouldn't have to be started.

The ironing is delicious

[Riddickcule]

Been watching too much Simpsons my friend.

[Sam_Heggy]

As for bray not having enough fans to discuss possible signings, amy I direct you to 11 page thread started by you about signings (http://foot.ie/threads/129304-So-who-s-out-and-who-s-in) in the Bray forum


Now, name calling is not on, no matter how stupid these threads are. As far as I know, Dumbass is the only sort of name that can be thrown at people on here.


Been watching too much Simpsons my friend.

Blasphemy, you can NEVER watch too much Simpsons or for that matter, Blackadder, Red Dwarf (gotta love Dave Lyster) and other humorous tv series.

[SkStu]

Now, name calling is not on, no matter how stupid these threads are. As far as I know, Dumbass is the only sort of name that can be thrown at people on here.

i believe retard is acceptable here too.

[bullit]

only if you are one

[ped_ped]

How about a 'How to fix the league' forum. It would easily be filled and could save this forum for discussing the league we actually have!!!

[cob655]

I wrote this out in reply to the "league" thread and then realised it was locked,lol.so ill just post it here..

First off keep summer footie,then go to an AIL,try to work with/closer around the gaa fixtures and pray to god it works!

Lately i seem to be missing alot of dundalk home games due to playing gaa on a fri nite.instead of competing why cant these two bodys work around each other,ie no gaa match's(in dundalk/louth) on the nite dundalk play there home games and the fai(ddl and so on) will do the same with the soccer when louth are playing.

Could this not work through out the country??

[pineapple stu]

Add another two sub-forums. Next.

[KevB76]

I wrote this out in reply to the "league" thread and then realised it was locked,lol.so ill just post it here..

First off keep summer footie,then go to an AIL,try to work with/closer around the gaa fixtures and pray to god it works!



Could this not work through out the country??

We already have one, its called the first division

[Riddickcule]

Don't mind them cob^^^, but tbh gaa and football could never work together, wouldn't want them to either.

We need to look abroad for examples, not domestically. The structures we have in place with the ruggers and gaah just wouldn't work in footy.

[cob655]

As every one knows the main problem isnt the EPL across the sea,its the fact that we are competing with the gaa.
Most people will watch the EPL bacause its good footie,but Id never miss a Dundalk game for it.
I think most LOI fans would watch the EPL and the likes every week,so thats way down the list in "things to fix".

Alot of my gaa team go to dundalk games most weeks and im sure its the same through out dundalk,so if you have 10 games on a friday nite when dlk are playing,thats 20 teams(you could have alot more..) and the supporters also at them gaa games and players who also take kids..

Thats just one small thing that needs to be sorted.


Maybe we should just accept the league may well never get bigger attendances......I for one cant see anything being done to improve them..

[Riddickcule]

As every one knows the main problem isnt the EPL across the sea,its the fact that we are competing with the gaa.




Nah can't agree with you there, we're not competing with gaa as its a completly different game. imo.

And technically we're not competing with the EPL either, really we're competing with Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Celtic.

[marinobohs]

I wrote this out in reply to the "league" thread and then realised it was locked,lol.so ill just post it here..

First off keep summer footie,then go to an AIL,try to work with/closer around the gaa fixtures and pray to god it works!

Lately i seem to be missing alot of dundalk home games due to playing gaa on a fri nite.instead of competing why cant these two bodys work around each other,ie no gaa match's(in dundalk/louth) on the nite dundalk play there home games and the fai(ddl and so on) will do the same with the soccer when louth are playing.

Could this not work through out the country??

Simple solution - Friday/Sat/Sunday desiganated football. Never - designated bogball ;)

Really what we are "competing" with is barstools and a lazy public that has no real interest in sport. If man ure / liverpool / celtic were playing here every week the gates would plummet after a month or two. Take away the novelty factor and there are very few "sports " fans in this country (see also - bogball national League V bogball championship)

[GUFCghost]

Nah can't agree with you there, we're not competing with gaa as its a completly different game. imo.

And technically we're not competing with the EPL either, really we're competing with Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Celtic.

No :stop:,most soccer fans won't say "I support this team and this team only",if you bring up the League of Ireland,they will say "I go to the odd (insert local club here) match",we just have to get them in more often,and I don't think we can compete with the GAA so a winter league is the way to go.
Also,I think one of the main purpose of the league is acting as breading ground for internationals,if we play at the same time as English clubs,they might be more inclined to buy Irish!

[Riddickcule]

I hate when people say professional football here can't work of course it can work it just needs money.

Thats all we need to our league, more money. The rest will then follow (interest, media etc)

[GUFCghost]

I did not say we could not have pro football here,my point is England will always be bigger then us and have more Irish international's,the league would work best if it works like a shop window.

[Dodge]

The problem, riddickule, as we've told you thousands of time is that everyone knows money is what's needed

getting it is the problem. Until you figured out how to
realistically get that money, there's no point in you posting in this subject again.

[Eminence Grise]

Long time lurker, finally getting round to contributing…


The nub of the issue is that clubs in Ireland are not solely in competition with leagues or clubs across the water. Nor are they solely in competition with the GAA and IRFU. Like it or not, football has become another part of the entertainment industry, and football fans, whether we like it or not, are consumers. But too many consumers want the best comfort, price and entertainment for the least possible effort.

So, clubs are in direct competition for bums on seats with cinema multiplexes, pubs, restaurants, theatres, gigs – even the circus coming to town is a rival. For sporting “thrills” they’re in competition with EA Sports, Wii, etc; for access to sporting events they’re in competition with Sky and the internet – after all, who needs real sport when you can have it vicariously from the comfort of your living room?

If clubs are to prosper, they have to take a long hard look at what they’re offering, and compare that to all their competitors. Good seating, good food and good toilets aren’t the magic solution – no film, or pub, or Wii game, or Sky coverage beats being in a ground at a real game - but they’re substantially missing from the league at the moment. Clubs also have to analyse why they’re losing customers to their competitors. Mom and Pop can bring the clan to a match or the cinema for much the same price – cinema, for its comfort and services wins. The Work Night Out/Stag/Hen/Birthday gang can catch an early bird menu in a restaurant, then a gig, then a late bar; football doesn’t appear on their radar.

The competitors for clubs have gotten their product right. The product might not be particularly unique or extraordinary, or even desirable: one Jennifer Lopez rom-com is the same as another; Blackpool v West Brom won’t get many pulses racing next season across the pond; Championship Manager or Football Manager are just variations on a theme; but the competitors have addressed the limitations of their product with the extra benefits that attract customers, that don’t really require lots of money, just lots of creativity and business savvy.

And that’s where they’re leaving our clubs in the penny ha’penny place.

[MariborKev]

Way too much sense in that post.

Not one uninformed,emotional rant?

[Macy]

The wage cap/ SCP was meant to be the mechanism that gave clubs the money to put in place the infrastructure talked about above. There is no silver bullet, we can only build in a sustainable way taking a long term view. Unfortunately, the FAI seem incapable of running licensing credibly, and so we have endless stories of clubs in trouble.

Which brings me to the big problem with the "how to improve the league" threads - they're invariably looking for a silver bullet of P1, AIL etc. We've already tried several, such as 10 team premier and summer season - they don't work. And they'll never work, because our population is generally a load of glory hunting knobs (for all sports). imo the "product" isn't that bad, we just have a terrible reputation, that can only be addressed through living within our means now and aiming for long term growth.

[peadar1987]

Note to self: Never start a thread, then feck off to Glasgow for 2 days!

Yes, a lot of the articles are a bit ill-conceived, but people consistently fail to address the argument, and just post something along the lines of "How to fix the league thread #42,177", as if trying to think progressively is a bad thing in itself. Sure, people are going to have rubbish or unoriginal ideas, and it may be frustrating for those poster who have been around a long time, but surely you can just say "daft argument" or simply ignore the thread.

[SkStu]

The wage cap/ SCP was meant to be the mechanism that gave clubs the money to put in place the infrastructure talked about above. There is no silver bullet, we can only build in a sustainable way taking a long term view. Unfortunately, the FAI seem incapable of running licensing credibly, and so we have endless stories of clubs in trouble.

Which brings me to the big problem with the "how to improve the league" threads - they're invariably looking for a silver bullet of P1, AIL etc. We've already tried several, such as 10 team premier and summer season - they don't work. And they'll never work, because our population is generally a load of glory hunting knobs (for all sports). imo the "product" isn't that bad, we just have a terrible reputation, that can only be addressed through living within our means now and aiming for long term growth.

this has always been my base assumption too. To be honest, if we got everything in order with our leagues and were competing to a reasonably high level in europe it would still take a huge psychological shift from the general sporting public here for clubs to see any significant difference. When we dont have the full backing of the FAI, and we really dont, then all we can hope for is baby steps and it is being left to each individual club to make those steps themselves.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Way too much sense in that post.

Not one uninformed,emotional rant?

He'll never last

[passerrby]

I hate when people say professional football here can't work of course it can work it just needs money.

Thats all we need to our league, more money. The rest will then follow (interest, media etc)

thats like saying time travel can work all it needs is a flux capasitor

[Sam_Heggy]

thats like saying time travel can work all it needs is a flux capasitor

And Doc brown, it wouldn't be the same without him

[passerrby]

And Doc brown, it wouldn't be the same without him

but what what about doc gavin who says everything will be fine "in the future" now theres a mad sceintist

[Riddickcule]

I did not say we could not have pro football here,my point is England will always be bigger then us and have more Irish international's,the league would work best if it works like a shop window.
Sorry man i didn't mean it directly towards you i just meant i hate it in general.

[Eminence Grise]

He'll never last

Au contraire, my friend...

Post 2 of my 5-Post Probationary Period...

Until I post my fifth, chances are I'll be gazing round me with the wide-eyed innocence of a lumbering centre-half who, having nearly decapitated the ref with the flying body of the striker he's just slide tackled, cannot believe he's getting a red card and the ref has the audacity to give a penalty as well...

Perhaps by the sixth, I'll be as irascible, cantankerous and unreasonable as the next man (figuratively speaking, and with apologies in advance to whoever posts next!!)

[thischarmingman]

There's your cue Adam...

[GUFCghost]

I think we need to make the tickets cheaper,10 euro max.
Clubs also need to get more involved with schools and under age teams,eg five a side games at half time and posters in the club houses.
We need a winter league,where far to close to the GAA.

[Dodge]

I think we need to make the tickets cheaper,10 euro max.


Our setanta cup semi was only €10 and was our worst crowd of the season. Price drops won't encourage too many new fans to go, it'll just make it cheaper for thso who already go (and therefore cut the revenue for the clubs)

[Ezeikial]

I think we need to make the tickets cheaper,10 euro max.
Clubs also need to get more involved with schools and under age teams,eg five a side games at half time and posters in the club houses.
We need a winter league,where far to close to the GAA.


Our setanta cup semi was only €10 and was our worst crowd of the season. Price drops won't encourage too many new fans to go, it'll just make it cheaper for thso who already go (and therefore cut the revenue for the clubs)

Price is only one part of the mix. Its a pretty useless crude tactic on its own. (Witness how the free admission Cork V Drogheda league game worked out last year!) It has its place but only as part of an overall strategy

[Dodge]

I agree, and I'd like to see a range of prces and ticket options for people, and I'd love the clubs to have the option of charging what they like. But the FAI have set minimum ticket prices and the clubs can't go lower

[Riddickcule]

I honestly think ticket prices don't matter at all. It's all about Product, Facilities and Marketing.

[Ciaran W]

Ive said this before, but i really think a magic weekend could work in the Aviva. It wont exactly fix the league but it would be worth a shot, and if it doesnt work out the attendances for the weekend could hardly be any lower then they are at the moment.

[marinobohs]

I agree, and I'd like to see a range of prces and ticket options for people, and I'd love the clubs to have the option of charging what they like. But the FAI have set minimum ticket prices and the clubs can't go lower

Yes, the price is of course an issue (more now than ever) but not the main one in my opinon. In the last few years people had so much desposable income they were prepared to pay 15/20 euro for a cocktail and yet we could not get them into a LOI ground.
We need to identify WHO the potential market is before we decide how to target them. This may vary from club to club (ie bohs - glory hunters, UCD - students, shams - recently released cons etc :D ) depending on catchment area and/or likely interest. Then a strategy should be designed to maximise the potential interest in that group(s). This may involve a range of participation - the casual one game in five fans, the family night out fans as well as the never miss a game fans. Too often it appears to me that all clubs focus on the school market (cos "we got them for life" !) but little else. Different clubs are different products and need to be marketed accordingly.
The League should be marketed by the FAI and the clubs by themselves at present neither is done very well.it is no co incidence that the club that has promoted itself the best -shams - enjoys the best crowds.

[SkStu]

this (http://www.joe.ie/forum/index.php?topic=31.0) is what we're competing for?

Ugh. Almost better off without.

[konstruktor]

Hi guys,

I have vent my frustration somewhere :)

I`m polish and live here in Ireland for last 7 years. I`m big LoI fan and understand fully your frustration with barstoolers, with no interest from tv and public in general but one think I can`t understand is why are LoI related websites so secretive? Except for sites like: foot.ie, extratime and new one managed by new sponsor it is ridiculously difficult to get information. Official club websites harldy ever bother with more than 3or 4 paragraphs and fans forum in 80% are closed for people that are not registered there. I understand that trolling might be a problem and sometimes there are things that are better discussed behind closed doors but surely it wouldn`t do any harm to have the most common topics such as preparation for game and team news open to the public. Am I supposed to have 15 or whatever password if all I`m after is a bit of lurking? It doesn`t help with trying to really get involved and knowing what is going on. Today I was trying to find out what is going on with St. Pats - Galway game to no avail as both forums are closed.


Now I feel better . Hope no one gets upset. It`s just that sometimes I really want some extra info and feel like intruder

[osarusan]

Hi guys,

I have vent my frustration somewhere :)

I`m polish and live here in Ireland for last 7 years. I`m big LoI fan and understand fully your frustration with barstoolers, with no interest from tv and public in general but one think I can`t understand is why are LoI related websites so secretive? Except for sites like: foot.ie, extratime and new one managed by new sponsor it is ridiculously difficult to get information. Official club websites harldy ever bother with more than 3or 4 paragraphs and fans forum in 80% are closed for people that are not registered there. I understand that trolling might be a problem and sometimes there are things that are better discussed behind closed doors but surely it wouldn`t do any harm to have the most common topics such as preparation for game and team news open to the public. Am I supposed to have 15 or whatever password if all I`m after is a bit of lurking? It doesn`t help with trying to really get involved and knowing what is going on. Today I was trying to find out what is going on with St. Pats - Galway game to no avail as both forums are closed.


Now I feel better . Hope no one gets upset. It`s just that sometimes I really want some extra info and feel like intruder

I think that trolling is a major reason why so many are partially or completely secretive. You will get lots of fans going onto the sites of other clubs just to talk **** and cause trouble.

The club websites themselves should tell you about kick-off times and ticketing arrangements.

Finally, there just aren't many LOI-related websites in the first place.

[Riddickcule]

Hi guys,

I have vent my frustration somewhere :)

I`m polish and live here in Ireland for last 7 years. I`m big LoI fan and understand fully your frustration with barstoolers, with no interest from tv and public in general but one think I can`t understand is why are LoI related websites so secretive? Except for sites like: foot.ie, extratime and new one managed by new sponsor it is ridiculously difficult to get information. Official club websites harldy ever bother with more than 3or 4 paragraphs and fans forum in 80% are closed for people that are not registered there. I understand that trolling might be a problem and sometimes there are things that are better discussed behind closed doors but surely it wouldn`t do any harm to have the most common topics such as preparation for game and team news open to the public. Am I supposed to have 15 or whatever password if all I`m after is a bit of lurking? It doesn`t help with trying to really get involved and knowing what is going on. Today I was trying to find out what is going on with St. Pats - Galway game to no avail as both forums are closed.


Now I feel better . Hope no one gets upset. It`s just that sometimes I really want some extra info and feel like intruder
There are sites out there however they are hard to find because they're not popular:(