New regulations on homegrown talent in premier league [Archive]

tommy_c12000

18/05/2010, 12:05 PM

Not sure if this has been discussed already but I reckon that the new requirement of clubs to have at least 8 homegrown players in their squad of 25 next season could present an excellent opportunity to a number of Irish youngsters at the bigger clubs.

Already Man City are rumoured to be considering holding onto Wright-Phillips and Ireland because of the rule (From today's Guardian: "Mancini will also decide against selling winger Shaun Wright-Phillips and midfielder Stephen Ireland as he needs the pair to boost the club's home-grown contingent; Premier League clubs having to name eight home-grown players in a squad of 25 next season.").

It appears that homegrown talent could prove to be somewhat of a precious comodity at some of the bigger clubs like Chelsea and Man City. With the likes of Cunningham and Clifford (to name but a few) already at their respective clubs for 3 years, they are likely to be named in the squad of 25, giving them a great chance next year of seeing some first team action.

From Premier League website: "The definition of home grown is trained for three years under the age of 21 by somebody in the English and Welsh professional system."

OwlsFan

18/05/2010, 12:12 PM

It's bad news for players making their names in the Airtricity League trying to get a move to a top English club who will not be judged to be "home grown".

I suspect it will also be anti-EU law. Imagine having a rule in a factory that at least 33% of workers must be home grown thereby denying other EU workers a job.

tommy_c12000

18/05/2010, 12:21 PM

Fair enough point on the League of Ireland players. It may certainly curtail some clubs from recruiting them. However, I don't think it is anti-EU law. These rules appear not to breach European laws because they are not based on nationality, but where a player of any nationality trained between 15-21 years of age.

http://www.theuksportsnetwork.com/champions-league-and-premier-league-player-quotas/

Charlie Darwin

18/05/2010, 4:03 PM

I don't think there's any danger that the homegrown rule will be ruled contrary to EU law. The clubs may have kicked up a fuss when it was first announced, but even the top clubs have put a stronger emphasis on bringing through youth players recently, and two of City's major signings last season were English. From a player's point of view, I think they'd have to prove that not only can they not gain employment at a specific club, but that they can't get employed at any professional club. Given that the lower divisions in the English league (and every country, really) are overwhelmingly dominated by locals, I can't foresee it being an issue.

SkStu

18/05/2010, 5:38 PM

Colbert Report

18/05/2010, 11:15 PM

There's no rule that says that the player must have played with that same club for three years before the age of 21. Stephen Ireland and Robbie Keane could both qualify as "home grown players" next season if they played for any team in England. In fact, the only players that WOULDN'T qualify for us would be Doyle and Hunt, if I'm not mistaken.

Charlie Darwin

19/05/2010, 12:16 AM

great that it will encourage the people who look after our talented kids to make damn sure they get the kids over there and get their three years in. Pity. Doesnt help Irish football in the slightest. :rolleyes:
It's the clubs that call the shots and I doubt it'll make them bring over any more players than they otherwise would have.

sligoman

19/05/2010, 12:41 AM

Thread title says Premier League...is that automatically meant to mean the English league? We've a Premier League in this country too.

Colbert Report

19/05/2010, 12:57 AM

Thread title says Premier League...is that automatically meant to mean the English league? We've a Premier League in this country too.

I thought it was called the Eircom League or the Airtricity League or something? In the FIFA video games it just says "League of Ireland".

Charlie Darwin

19/05/2010, 1:02 AM

Ours is the Premier Division.

Dodge

19/05/2010, 6:32 AM

Excellent knowledge of Irish football there Colbert

tommy_c12000

19/05/2010, 10:24 AM

Thread title says Premier League...is that automatically meant to mean the English league? We've a Premier League in this country too.

Why do you have to nit pick here when you clearly know what I mean. Given the examples I provided (Man City and Chelsea are English Premier League teams) and as CR shrewdly pointed out, I would have had the foresight to call the thread the "Airtricity League" or the "League of Ireland" if I was referring to the local Irish scene. Perhaps it was an oversight on my part and will take it upon myself to painstakingly signpost everything, leaving no room for ambiguity, in the future

Colbert Report

19/05/2010, 11:56 AM

Excellent knowledge of Irish football there Colbert

I live in Canada, Irish domestic football is never on television over here and every time I go home on holiday nobody talks about the Irish domestic game because nobody cares! All the guys I grew up with are still football mad and they all love and watch the English Premier League, just the facts mate.

Dodge

19/05/2010, 12:21 PM

You realise you're on an Irish football site, don't you?

SkStu

19/05/2010, 3:11 PM

It's the clubs that call the shots and I doubt it'll make them bring over any more players than they otherwise would have.

i didnt say it would harm it - i just said it wouldnt help as it will make our nursery clubs even more determined to get our young talent over there. Obviously the Premier League doesnt care less about Irish football or young Irish players but im just pointing out a negative to Irish football of this new rule. Oh well, who cares? Right?

tommy_c12000

19/05/2010, 3:22 PM

You realise you're on an Irish football site, don't you?

Is this not the Ireland part of the International section? ALL our players are playing in English Premier League, Championship and SPL so is there much point discussing the Airtricity Division here? Why do so many contributors to this site spend so much time nitpicking rather than making some worthwhile contributions?

Dodge

19/05/2010, 4:14 PM

Is this not the Ireland part of the International section? ALL our players are playing in English Premier League, Championship and SPL so is there much point discussing the Airtricity Division here? Why do so many contributors to this site spend so much time nitpicking rather than making some worthwhile contributions?

YOu can discuss what you like. I found it astonishing, and frankly disgusting, that someone who considers themselves an Irish football fan doesn't know the name of their national league.

tetsujin1979

19/05/2010, 4:26 PM

YOu can discuss what you like. I found it astonishing, and frankly disgusting, that someone who considers themselves an Irish football fan doesn't know the name of their national league.
let it go, it was a minor offence made by someone with no exposure to the league.

Dodge

19/05/2010, 8:21 PM

let it go, it was a minor offence made by someone with no exposure to the league.

I made one comment, I had no intention of making it a big thing. The criticism still stands though (and in my opinion this "I thought it was called the Eircom League or the Airtricity League or something?" isn't minor")

You disagree, and thats fine. I won't be posted on this thrad again

Colbert Report

19/05/2010, 10:53 PM

I made one comment, I had no intention of making it a big thing. The criticism still stands though (and in my opinion this "I thought it was called the Eircom League or the Airtricity League or something?" isn't minor")

You disagree, and thats fine. I won't be posted on this thrad again

I mean absolutely NO disrespect to fans of the Irish domestic game, good on you for supporting your local teams and I genuinely hope that one day the beautiful game takes off in my homeland. Nothing would give me greater pride than to see a team called Dublin United or Dublin Celtic go out and take on the likes of Inter Milan or Barcelona in the Champions League, cheered on by fifty thousand at Aviva.

You can hardly fault me for being so ignorant on the game because so few of the players make it in the big time world of full time professional football. The matches are not on television here and in fairness, I do read the Independent online religiously and they have little or no coverage of the League at all. Apart from Fahey and Coleman, the only other player I know of to come out of the Eircom League (or whatever they're calling it this month) and make an impact in England was Tadgh Purcell, and that's only because my father is a lifelong Darlington supporter.

I grew up in Ireland and the only football matches I ever went to were when Liverpool or Aston Villa came over to play an LOI XI. The matches back then, in mid-nineties got no coverage. Don't bother me for not knowing the name of the poxy league - I'm posting in the International Team section of this site only, and I do so religiously. I know more about the current national team prospects than 99% of Irish football fans, just from reading this forum every day. The LOI is simply not relevant when speaking of the International team, not at all.

Charlie Darwin

19/05/2010, 11:54 PM

I do read the Independent online
Boo-urns.

Apart from Fahey and Coleman, the only other player I know of to come out of the Eircom League (or whatever they're calling it this month) and make an impact in England was Tadgh Purcell, and that's only because my father is a lifelong Darlington supporter.
Doyle, Long and Meyler all secured their moves after impressing at Cork City, Stephen Ward was at Bohs and Stephen Quinn has also played in the Premier League (the English one :p) following a very brief period at Pat's. Noel Hunt also started out at Rovers if I'm not mistaken.

Colbert Report

20/05/2010, 12:09 AM

Boo-urns.

Doyle, Long and Meyler all secured their moves after impressing at Cork City, Stephen Ward was at Bohs and Stephen Quinn has also played in the Premier League (the English one :p) following a very brief period at Pat's. Noel Hunt also started out at Rovers if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, sorry, I meant to write "to come out of the LOI this past year". Obviously I'm well aware of Doyle, Long, Meyler, Ward, etc.

SkStu

20/05/2010, 1:10 AM

Colbert Report

20/05/2010, 2:07 AM

Faheys gone nearly 2 years. Deegans done well for Coventry too.

I find your original post pretty ignorant but im sure thats the reaction you were looking for. Why Dublin United or Dublin Celtic by the way? Why not Bohs/Rovers/Pats/Shels?

Nothing against any of the clubs in Dublin like the ones you mention but I doubt any of them would ever muster the resources necessary to compete in Europe at a serious level. The only way we'll see serious interest in domestic football in Ireland is if there is one big club, based in Dublin and playing out of Aviva, in the English Premier League or in a European Super League, which is less than ten years away if you believe one Arsene Wenger.

Charlie Darwin

20/05/2010, 2:18 AM

Dunno about that. There are plenty of leagues around Europe (Denmark, Sweden, Norway) of similar size to us that punch above their weight in Europe. An all-Ireland league would certainly be helpful but any notions of joining the English league are a bit mad.

SkStu

20/05/2010, 3:24 AM

Nothing against any of the clubs in Dublin like the ones you mention but I doubt any of them would ever muster the resources necessary to compete in Europe at a serious level. The only way we'll see serious interest in domestic football in Ireland is if there is one big club, based in Dublin and playing out of Aviva, in the English Premier League or in a European Super League, which is less than ten years away if you believe one Arsene Wenger.

stuff of nightmares...

id rather a real team with real history like Bohs competing at the highest level they can attain (whatever that may be) ahead of some Oireland Franchise FC crap.

ifk101

20/05/2010, 7:25 AM

I mean absolutely NO disrespect to fans of the Irish domestic game, good on you for supporting your local teams and I genuinely hope that one day the beautiful game takes off in my homeland.

Must try harder.....

Nothing would give me greater pride than to see a team called Dublin United or Dublin Celtic go out and take on the likes of Inter Milan or Barcelona in the Champions League, cheered on by fifty thousand at Aviva.

Getting there....

You can hardly fault me for being so ignorant on the game because so few of the players make it in the big time world of full time professional football. The matches are not on television here and in fairness, I do read the Independent online religiously and they have little or no coverage of the League at all.

How can I be ignorant? I read the Independent and watch Sky Sports.

Apart from Fahey and Coleman, the only other player I know of to come out of the Eircom League (or whatever they're calling it this month) and make an impact in England was Tadgh Purcell, and that's only because my father is a lifelong Darlington supporter.

I'm really of good footballing stock...

I grew up in Ireland and the only football matches I ever went to were when Liverpool or Aston Villa came over to play an LOI XI.

Sometimes the circus came to town and I was there.

The matches back then, in mid-nineties got no coverage. Don't bother me for not knowing the name of the poxy league - I'm posting in the International Team section of this site only, and I do so religiously.

Don't insult my intelligence. Sky Sports don't have LOI coverage. I have a religious devotion to Sky. How can I be ignorant?

I know more about the current national team prospects than 99% of Irish football fans, just from reading this forum every day.

I know what I need to know. I read the Independent and watch Sky Sports for Christ's sake!.

The LOI is simply not relevant when speaking of the International team, not at all.

If it's not in the Independent or on Sky, I don't need to know. Don't insult my ignorance.

osarusan

20/05/2010, 8:47 AM

I mean absolutely NO disrespect to fans of the Irish domestic game.......

the only other player I know of to come out of the Eircom League (or whatever they're calling it this month)
.........
Don't bother me for not knowing the name of the poxy league.

You mean no disrespect but you just can't help yourself?

Colbert Report

20/05/2010, 11:58 AM

Well I'll just come out and say it then, and take the possible infraction points. Nobody grows up wanting to play in the LOI, they play in it only after they don't make the cut over in England. I grew up in Ireland and never once went to a LOI match, neither did any of my childhood chums EVER even mention the league or anything related to it. Every year when I go home I ask around about it and get weird looks - the interest simply isn't there an likely never will be.

Good luck supporting your own domestic league, nothing wrong with it, but don't be attacking me for not knowing the name of the current sponsors when I live halfway around the world and have no interest in watching it. Why would I support the LOI? The standard of football is roughly equivalent to watching the MLS, which is terrible. Why watch Bohs vs. Shamrock Rovers when I could just turn on Inter vs. Bayern instead on the next channel?

Closed Account

21/05/2010, 11:41 AM

Just looking at the Irish in the Premiership at the moment, the people who don't qualify as homegrown or U21 are (and correct me if I'm wrong):

Jay O'Shea
Seamus Coleman
Daryl Murphy
Stephen Ward
Kevin Doyle.
James McCarthy(next season 11/12)

Ok, Doyle is safe. You would have to think Coleman too (4 year contract).
Daryl Murphy will likely be in the Championship regardless.
Stephen Ward is probably safe too because of the general small size of Wolves squad and most of them are homegrown anyway. Ditto Jay O'Shea.
The 25 man squad limit is the most worrysome thing to me, particularly for O'Shea. If your not named, you can't play until the January transfer window, so your best option is to go out on loan.
The obvious trend from the above list is, premiership clubs will be less likely to take a punt on a LOI player who hasn't spent 3 years in English(or Welsh) youth structure.

The U21s who may benifit as they can supplement squads are:
Arsenal
Conor Henderson U21

Aston Villa
James Collins U21

Blackburn
Gavin Gunning U21
Aaron Doran U21

Bolton
Mark Connolly U21

Chelsea
Connor Clifford U21

Everton
Shane Duffy U21

Manchester City
Greg Cunningham U21
Donal McDermott U21

Sunderland
Michael Liddle U21
David Meyler U21

Wigan
James McCarthy U21
Craig Mahon U21

Players outside the Premier League who's transfer opportunities maybe limited are (to name a few:
Aidan McGeady
Darren O'Dea
Gary Deegan
Noel Hunt
Dave Mooney

Charlie Darwin

21/05/2010, 2:49 PM

Does the Welsh part apply only to the clubs in the English leagues or all Welsh sides? Probably a moot point anyway but still.

It looks like McCarthy will miss out on qualifying as homegrown by a couple of months, which is unfortunate, but it seems like he's good enough that it won't become a problem.

Jay O'Shea could well be squeezed out by the limited squad size as Birmingham's squad is quite old but he may well have been spending next season out on loan anyway.

Louth4sam

23/05/2010, 5:52 PM

stuff of nightmares...

id rather a real team with real history like Bohs competing at the highest level they can attain (whatever that may be) ahead of some Oireland Franchise FC crap.

I actually agree with him. It'll be great cheering on Dublin Celtic in the champions league and North Atlantic in the world cup!

SkStu

23/05/2010, 9:12 PM

I actually agree with him. It'll be great cheering on Dublin Celtic in the champions league and North Atlantic in the world cup!

especially if we got to beat those South Atlantic scum in the final... ;)

Closed Account

01/09/2010, 10:37 AM

25 Man Squads Being Named Today:
Here's who it affects.
Confirmed Players In BOLD, U21 in Italic, Not Selected Underlined

Arsenal Conor Henderson U21
Aston Villa Richard Dunne HG
Stephen Ireland HG
James Collins U21
Birmingham City Colin Doyle HG
Stephen Carr HG
Keith Fahey HG
Jay O'Shea
Blackburn Gavin Gunning U21
Keith Andrews HG
Aaron Doran U21
Blackpool Billy Clarke HG
Bolton Andy O'Brien HG
Mark Connolly U21
Joey O'Brien HG
Everton Shane Duffy U21
Seamus Coleman
Fulham Stephen Kelly HG
Damien Duff HG
Manchester City Shay Given HG
Greg Cunningham U21
Donal McDermott U21
Manchester United John O'Shea HG
Darron Gibson HG
Newcastle Leon Best HG
Stoke City Rory Delap HG
Glenn Whelan HG
Marc Wilson HG
Jonathan Walters HG
Sunderland Andy Reid HG
David Meyler U21
Tottenham Robbie Keane HG
West Bromwich Albion Dean Kiely HG
Steven Reid HG
Wigan James McCarthy U21
Wolverhampton Wanderers Kevin Foley HG
Stephen Ward
Stephen Hunt HG
Kevin Doyle

The Fly

01/09/2010, 10:54 AM

^ It's interesting that Conor Henderson has been included in Arsenal's squad. I hope it bodes well for the boy!

Closed Account

01/09/2010, 11:07 AM

^ It's interesting that Conor Henderson has been included in Arsenal's squad. I hope it bodes well for the boy!
What? No. Thats just a list I made from Tets website. Conor doesn't have to be named in a squad because he is U21.
Most of those players should be named in 25 man squads today, excluding the U21s. Jay O'Shea, Joey O'Brien, maybe Dean Kiely should be worried.

tetsujin1979

01/09/2010, 12:20 PM

There was a story last week about Joey O'Brien going out on loan: http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/8353141.Ward_s_Leeds_loan/

Joey O’Brien has also been told he will be sent out on a short-term loan as he continues on the road to recovery from a serious knee injury.

Coyle said "
He’s a big, big part of my plans and what I have said to him is that I would be willing to give him a month somewhere so that he can get four or five games in the Championship and then return to us ready to push for that competition in the midfield area