Bust UP????

[NeilMcD]

So what do people think of the rumours of a bust up. Or criticism of Kerrs professionalism. I think Tom Humphries wrote a superb article in the times today, If there are players within squad who dont like the no drink rule or the watching of videos they should be told to get lost. We need the best approach and the days of drinking before games and Harrys challenge should be gone. We need players who expect the best and want the best not playerrs that come over for the craic and the social side.

any views

[A face]

I think Tom Humphries wrote a superb article in the times today


Can anyone post this up here by any chance, sounds like it is worth a read !!

[NeilMcD]

Whinge and a prayer won't wash with Kerr
Tom Humphries

LockerRoom: There's an old story about Brian Kerr taking a team to an important match up in Dundalk or somewhere and outside of Dublin the team bus broke down, but, typical of Kerr, he had a fleet of cars following behind. I'm sure Brian thought of it on Tuesday.
For those who were in the Carlisle Grounds, getting to watch the Irish team train on the morning before a friendly international was a rare treat. The team seem to have grown away from us in the past few years and the affable accessibility of yore is viewed with horror by today's professionals.
Happy though the morning was, you could tell that the players had a little collective pout on about things. Nothing strange there. As a rule of thumb the pout is the default setting for the modern pro.
In their dream world the slightest fleck of impurity can assume the dimensions of an obese bluebottle squatting in the ointment of their happiness.
The rumours of discontent in the Irish camp last week are interesting in what they say about the past and the present. The players have apparently been grumbling because they find the Kerr regime a little too taxing on their concentration, involving breakdowns of their own performances and the Kerr tendency to pack as much useful information into a day as possible.
Tuesday apparently brought things to a head. No great fissure in the squad but the sound of whingeing audible. Makes you wonder.
On Wednesday night Kerr's team handed in a performance that had the manager's trademark all over it. Tidy, thoughtful football. Great passing. Good heart. We looked nothing like the team which went so meekly into that dark night in Basel. The team at last is bearing the maker's mark.
You wonder if, as a group of people, they have reached the tipping point yet, where the majority of players accept that the world of the international week has changed forever. It took the players who grew up with Mick McCarthy a while to get over his passing. That has been one of the problems facing the new regime. Roy Keane may have left Saipan but the irony is that things are being done now the way he would have liked them to be done. At Sunderland, meanwhile, a good week was proceeding apace. McCarthy has done a fine job in the land of the makems. It has been pointed out often he inherited a losing team and and from that he sold a minibus full of name players.
Without detracting from the achievement, one suspects those conditions suited Mick's way of operating. He inspires a loyalty which is at it's fiercest when players feel their backs to the wall, when they suspect their reputations are in question, when they feel they are fighting through something together.
That was the twin legacy of Saipan, the group which remained behind welded together and battling fiercely like men under siege. The manager's odd mix of paranoia and defiance sparking their performances.
It's the sort of motivation that can only last so long. When they came together in the autumn they were notoriously flat when they had no windmills to tilt against.
The players' performances against Switzerland and Russia signed McCArthy's p45 for him, yet as he shuffled away his players continued to blame an array of imaginary foes (mainly with seats in the press box) who had manipulated the mood of the country. At Sunderland they've been through the fires of hell as well. Right down to that game against Preston when they were about to claim sole ownership of the losingest record in history.
When a team are in that position McCarthy has a gift for getting them out of it. He did it at Millwall first and the "nobody likes us and we don't care" school of motivation could in fact claim him as its dean. When it comes to gritted teetth and clenched fist McCarthy is a wonderful motivator. He has firm beliefs about football too and will always be in demand in the game. What made him a good Irish manager was his understanding of the terrain. Gritty defiance and a talent for working against the odds has been the Irish way of doing things for a long time. If blithely happy Americans are handed lemons by life only to go on and make lemonade, well we usually trample a domestic shambles and make champagne.
We crave being written off. Love the underdog tag. Our most heroic and passionate performances have been when we are proving a point. Or when we are stealing a point when we have been a goal down. Asked to just go and win a match that we should win and we panic. In major finals from Egypt to a 10-man Spanish team, that's been our wont. In qualifying we've rattled Romanians and frozen against Icelanders.
There comes a time, though (and this is quite unIrish) when you have to stand up and announce that because of the players you have and the work you are doing you expect to succeed. You have to put yourself under that pressure.
That it seems to me is what the Kerr era is about. No more kick-and-rush. No more passionate losers. No more gathering every negative press cutting and banging a fist on the table and saying let's show these *******s. It's about saying 'here we are, we're the best we can be, let's play'.
Roy Keane once balefully described the best thing about Irish trips as being the popcorn and Minstrels he'd be given when the team went off to the pictures on Monday nights. Others relished the licence to go and get well jarred in the company of people from a similar income bracket. Playing for Ireland has always been fun punctuated by football. We have never evinced a conviction that we should be aiming higher.
Better than expected. Better than the Brits. Not great but good enough. Pats on the head all round. You can't imagine that washing at Manchester United, Arsenal, Real Madrid, etc, etc.
Keane learned a different culture at Manchester United. He outgrew the boys'-night-out culture, came to see his career as a journey towards personal excellance and fulfilment. In sport that's the only journey worth making.
This week was interesting. In all likelihood the rumours of discontent in Killiney are exaggerated, but it would be interesting to know the true extent of the disenchantment that the culture shock of the Kerr era has produced. One imagines that those pouts say a multitude.
It was interesting to note at the end of the controversial training session in Bray which were the players who got up and cantered most happily towards the fans, there to sign autographs. They were Kerr kids. Players who understand.
On the field the team are looking as if they understand what their true potential is. They have a manager whose reaction to losing a lead in the Stade de France would be the same as was Keane's reaction when we lost a lead in the Amsterdam ArenA.
Saipan will influence Irish football for a long time to come. We move forward with surprisingly little affection for the old way of doing things. We'll surprise ourselves if we believe in ourselves and demand more from ourselves. Wednesday night proved that to anyone who had doubts.
Time to demand more than passion. Time to scrap the pout and postures.

[the 12 th man]

stephen carrs agent denies a rift.says he took a knock in training and went back for treatment.he allegedly (carr) laughed when he heard the rumour.

[Declan_Michael]

[QUOTE=NeilMcD]The players' performances against Switzerland and Russia signed McCArthy's p45 for him, yet as he shuffled away his players continued to blame an array of imaginary foes (mainly with seats in the press box) who had manipulated the mood of the country. QUOTE]

The good ol Oirish press, whiter than white. :D

[pete]

I thought was reading an article about Kerr & the present squad.

Humphries starts off about Kerr but somehow hijacls the whole article with Keane again.

:rolleyes:

[Plastic Paddy]

Despite harking back to "himself", I like the article. Humphries is right in what he says. Roll on WC2006 qualifying.

:D PP

[NeilMcD]

I think he is correct, I think people in this country are mature and sensible enough not to be led by a media agenda. Mc carthy was paranoid and still is. I dont want this to turn into a keane mc carthy debate again anyway. I think that article is one of the most balanced and sane piecies of journalism written about irish soccer in a lone time

[Éanna]

excellent article. I think it hits the nail on the head

[Robinski]

I read it this morning and thought it was brilliant. I may be biased as I do think Humphries is an excellent sports journalist.

[NeilMcD]

is that word meant to be hijack. if it is how can a journalist hijack their own article, they are the creator of it its theirs to do whatever they like. Also to understand the whole process you need to go back over a few issues. He points out that it is ironic that the things are been done the way keane wanted them to be done, now that he has gone/left or whatever way you put it. Although nobody wants to debate that issue again, it is not a crime to refer to it and refer to keane when making points about irish football at present.

[lopez]

I thought was reading an article about Kerr & the present squad.

Humphries starts off about Kerr but somehow hijacls the whole article with Keane again.

:rolleyes:
I thought this thread was about Jordan at first. :eek: :o

[Jon'o]

We'll surprise ourselves if we believe in ourselves and demand more from ourselves. Wednesday night proved that to anyone who had doubts.
Time to demand more than passion. Time to scrap the pout and postures.

kind of what kerr has been saying for a while, aimed at players as well as fans in some cases.

prehaps some players are a bit suprised about how kerr goes about his business.. but they must understand that brian has options to look at when selecting his squads .. play well then good but get the arse then there are players who are ready and waiting in the wings.

even if there was a rift then maybe kerr is more about getting it out in the open rather than the slagging through the media that has been seen.

as for the ban on drinking, no diffrent to the rules that most club teams lay down so whats the problem?

[tiktok]

great article, can't find fault with any of it.

[finlma]

[QUOTE=Declan_Michael
The good ol Oirish press, whiter than white. :D[/QUOTE]

I think you're on your own here with your press conspiracy. Humphries article is spot-on. The Kerr regime is a far more professional outfit than what McCarthy installed.

[Declan_Michael]

[QUOTE=Declan_Michael
The good ol Oirish press, whiter than white. :D

I think you're on your own here with your press conspiracy. Humphries article is spot-on. The Kerr regime is a far more professional outfit than what McCarthy installed.[/QUOTE]

I'm talking about the quote I picked out.'Manipulating the mood of the nation'. Of course, when the Keane/McCarthy saga was in full flow the press only reported FACT and never gave their own spins/opinions :rolleyes:

As much as I want Kerr to suceed its way to early to be talking of a new professional era. We drew at home to Brazil team in 10th gear and beat the Czech's as would be expected. Our friendly results in the run up to WC2002 (bar Nigeria) were good. Our competitive results under Kerr have not been so hot. However, I'll save my judgement until after the two crucial France games - an equally as hard group as our WC2002.

[NeilMcD]

I must say we got lucky in the 2002 qualifiers, the Dutch battered us for long periods and were robbed as they should have had a penalty. Other than Roy Keane and Stephen Carr, the performance against Portugal at home was terrible and they should have beaten us even though we did put in a very good 20 minutes at the start of the second half. I think if we get half as much luck in these qualifiers coming up we will be doing very well indeed. Another thing is I am 26 years of age and i was looking at the programme on wednesday at the match and noticed that there are very few players that are older than me now in the squad. That shows we have a very young panel and the only real leader we have is Cunningham and that was shown in Basel. To be fair to Kerr this is his first real go at a full qualifying campaign. Mc carthy had 3 goes to get it right. Do you remember France 98 qualifiers and the 3-5-2 days and the Roy Keane at sweeper and the treatment of Denis Irwin and Paul Mc Grath. So to compare the next campaign with the 2002 qualifiers is not totally fair on Brian Kerr. There is no doubt that we are becoming more professional as the idea that players can go on the razz has to be gotten rid of.

[finlma]

.........and beat the Czech's as would be expected. ........ Our competitive results under Kerr have not been so hot. However, I'll save my judgement until after the two crucial France games - an equally as hard group as our WC2002.

The Czech's have the best qualifying record in Europe and were unbeaten for 20 games when we beat them. I'd hardly say our win was expected.

One bad result against Switzerland was the only bad competitive result and Kerr was working with McCarthy's team then.

1 point against France is a realistic target, it's the Swiss game where the team should be judged. I think we're already playing for 2nd place.

[Declan_Michael]

The Czech's have the best qualifying record in Europe and were unbeaten for 20 games when we beat them. I'd hardly say our win was expected.

One bad result against Switzerland was the only bad competitive result and Kerr was working with McCarthy's team then.

1 point against France is a realistic target, it's the Swiss game where the team should be judged. I think we're already playing for 2nd place.

If we can grind out respectable results against Holland, Portugal and Brazil at home (all of whom would probably wipe the fall with the Czech's) I'd say a win would be expected.

Kerr is still working with the same team. I think there are 33 Irish players in PL & Nationwide. The squad pretty much picks itself. The core of the team - Given, Cunningham, Holland, Kilbane, Keane, Duff remains the same.

We should be beating France at home. If we can beat the Dutch with 10 men when we had a much celebrated 'shoddy' setup then we can beat the French at home. If we finish second I don't really want to be going into an awkward playoff.

[Declan_Michael]

To be fair to Kerr this is his first real go at a full qualifying campaign. Mc carthy had 3 goes to get it right. Do you remember France 98 qualifiers and the 3-5-2 days and the Roy Keane at sweeper and the treatment of Denis Irwin and Paul Mc Grath. So to compare the next campaign with the 2002 qualifiers is not totally fair on Brian Kerr. There is no doubt that we are becoming more professional as the idea that players can go on the razz has to be gotten rid of.

Kerr has a far better squad than the one McCarthy inherited in 96/97. Given is older and wiser. O'Shea is up and coming, Cunningham is solid. Midfield is spoilt for choice. Keane and Duff as forwards. Far better than an aging Cascarino and McGrath. Incidentally, Keane has played centre back a number of times for Man Utd.

[NeilMcD]

Sorry i think you have shown that you have a lack knowledge of European football. The Czechs finished ahead of the Dutch in qualifying and beat them too. They are 6th in the FIfa ranking ahead of the Dutch so to say the would wipe the floor (fall)? with them is very wrong So chekc your facts before you make comments that the czechs would be wiped by Portugal and Holland and Brazil.

[NeilMcD]

Yes Keane has played there but only when injurys dictated. He played him against Iceland at sweeper in a 3 5 2, i dont think Keane had ever played there plus, this was keane 6 or 7 years ago when he was 26 he should have been playing central midfield. The point is Mc Carthy makes the wrong decisions and the wrong time. He did it again on sunday when he took off Kevin Kyle for Sunderland when he was winning everthing in the air Even one of his mates Quinn could not defend that decision when he was on the Sky panel. He is a good manager but not a great one and has a lot of weaknesses when it comes to dealing with pressure situations at the highest level. So far nearly every decision Kerr has made has been sound and well thought out and made sense.

[finlma]

If we can grind out respectable results against Holland, Portugal and Brazil at home (all of whom would probably wipe the fall with the Czech's) I'd say a win would be expected.

We should be beating France at home. If we can beat the Dutch with 10 men when we had a much celebrated 'shoddy' setup then we can beat the French at home. If we finish second I don't really want to be going into an awkward playoff.

You should check your facts out. The Czech's drew with Holland and beat them 3-1 in the recent qualifiers, that really is a good floor-wipping by Holland?????? You musn't follow European football that much if you don't know how good the Czechs are.

While the win against Holland was great we were a bit fortunate. To say we should beat France is a big ask. On their day they are the best team in the world and we would need to play at our best while they play at their worst for us to win.

[NeilMcD]

The czech were and are a quality side i woudl favour them to finish ahead of the Dutch again in Portugal.
Standings
PLD W D L GS GA PTS
Czech Republic 8 7 1 0 23 5 22
Netherlands 8 6 1 1 20 6 19
Austria 8 3 0 5 12 14 9
Moldova 8 2 0 6 5 19 6
Belarus 8 1 0 7 4 20 3

Qualifying round
12.10.2002 v Moldova 2-0
16.10.2002 v Belarus 2-0
29.03.2003 v Netherlands 1-1
02.04.2003 v Austria 4-0
11.06.2003 v Moldova 5-0
06.09.2003 v Belarus 3-1
10.09.2003 v Netherlands 3-1
11.10.2003 v Austria 3-2

[Declan_Michael]

Sorry i think you have shown that you have a lack knowledge of European football. The Czechs finished ahead of the Dutch in qualifying and beat them too. They are 6th in the FIfa ranking ahead of the Dutch so to say the would wipe the floor (fall)? with them is very wrong So chekc your facts before you make comments that the czechs would be wiped by Portugal and Holland and Brazil.

The Czech Republic are a competant team but all round I would say the other three are better. We finished ahead of Holland in the WC qualifiers but will still be underdogs when we play them in June.

[Declan_Michael]

So far nearly every decision Kerr has made has been sound and well thought out and made sense.

You'd think we'd masterminded a World Cup final victory against Brazil. Not doubting Kerr's tactical ability but its far to early to get carried away.

[NeilMcD]

:) what did i say , i said every decision has been sound and well thought out, that is hardly getting carried away is it, DId i say we were world beaters no, did i say we did anything amazing no, I said every decision so far has been sound and well thought out hardly gettting carried away is it. I think you should deal with what is actually happening rather that perceived notions.

[Plastic Paddy]

I think you should deal with what is actually happening rather that perceived notions.

:D Declan will love that. Just thank God you're not a Celtic fan otherwise you'd be getting it with both barrels... ;)

:D PP

[Declan_Michael]

:D Declan will love that. Just thank God you're not a Celtic fan otherwise you'd be getting it with both barrels... ;)

:D PP

It's constructive critiscism y'know :D :)